Epic Trio of Necromancer Hero's?

Mr Emu

Mr Emu

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2006

W/A

26 Oct 2008 at 05:15 - 41
Chthon, what else exactly do you plan on running with a CoP mez? It isn't like your heros are going to step up and cryway with you. By running a mesmer you are also precluding the possibility of running some sort of physical buff. That essentially leaves you with some sort of necroway or some sort of gay half-assed balanced team. I can essentially guarantee you that Disc will kill faster than unbuffed physicals or some other paltry form of caster damage.

isamu kurosawa

isamu kurosawa

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

United Kingdom

Me/

26 Oct 2008 at 11:55 - 42
Whats worng with just running discord, giving one if them MoP and all caster spears? with 18+ minions you get the best of both builds. And no Attributes are not a problem.

BlackSparrow

Banned

Join Date: Oct 2008

26 Oct 2008 at 17:33 - 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon View Post
That would be foolish. If your heroes finish off your current target with Discord, that forces you to waste time hexing a new target so that you can blow up the rest of the mob with CoP. Far better to let that one monster live an extra second so that you can kill everything else at the same time. That is a silly argument. Do you recommend that we should try to kill as slow as possible then?

Killing monsters fast helps to recharge all skills and regain energy through AP. You dont even need AE because most HM mobs are not going to die with just 2 casts of CoP anyway so AP-CoP mesmer is even more effective with Discordway since CoP recharges quickly with free energy, thanks to fast AP triggering.

Supporting AP is so much more effective and AP builds are good enough on their own but they work even better when used with a good Discordway team.

Chthon

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Apr 2007

12 Nov 2008 at 01:58 - 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Emu View Post
Chthon, what else exactly do you plan on running with a CoP mez? It isn't like your heros are going to step up and cryway with you.
To be honest, it hardly matters. The offense on AP-AE-CoP is more than enough for a whole team. You can run 1 of those and 7 monks and still kill faster than anything else besides a team with an AP-MoP and a bunch of physicals. But, if you really want to synergize it, you use the heroes to fill in AP-AE-CoP's weaknesses -- prevent and/or overwhelm hex removal to keep the proc hex in place and make sure AP isn't removed; kill bosses that won't go down in one cycle; provide enough damage to get a kill to restart the cycle if the player messes up and misses with AP; etc. I'll leave it to you to fill in what sorts of builds can serve those roles best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSparrow View Post
That is a silly argument. Do you recommend that we should try to kill as slow as possible then? Are you reading impaired? Killing a dozen monsters simultaneously in 6 sec or whatever is far faster than killing a dozen monsters one-at-a-time in 3 sec each. Having heroes kill the target you're using as a focal point for CoP before you're done with it is counterproductive.

Daesu

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

12 Nov 2008 at 03:21 - 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon View Post
To be honest, it hardly matters. The offense on AP-AE-CoP is more than enough for a whole team. You can run 1 of those and 7 monks and still kill faster than anything else besides a team with an AP-MoP and a bunch of physicals. But, if you really want to synergize it, you use the heroes to fill in AP-AE-CoP's weaknesses -- prevent and/or overwhelm hex removal to keep the proc hex in place and make sure AP isn't removed; kill bosses that won't go down in one cycle; provide enough damage to get a kill to restart the cycle if the player messes up and misses with AP; etc. I'll leave it to you to fill in what sorts of builds can serve those roles best.

Are you reading impaired? Killing a dozen monsters simultaneously in 6 sec or whatever is far faster than killing a dozen monsters one-at-a-time in 3 sec each. Having heroes kill the target you're using as a focal point for CoP before you're done with it is counterproductive. You dont need to use AE in a AP-CoP mesmer build. It is just a waste of energy because a Discord team would kill the target so fast, the target would have already been dead after one CoP and your skills recharge. AP builds are designed to kill one target at a time, fast, no matter how you look at it.

Chthon

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Apr 2007

13 Nov 2008 at 05:12 - 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daesu View Post
You dont need to use AE in a AP-CoP mesmer build. It is just a waste of energy because a Discord team would kill the target so fast,... The highlighted word highlights where the failing in your understanding lies.

Daesu

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

13 Nov 2008 at 05:42 - 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon View Post
The highlighted word highlights where the failing in your understanding lies. I dont think you understand how AP synergizes with Discord. It is most important to focus kill the APed target fast to recharge your skills.

You are getting it mixed up with AoE attacks like an Ele. If you want AoE attacks, dont use AP. AP works better with a more focused attack like Discord. The more frequent AP fires, the less need your mesmer has of e-management skills too.

AE-CoP is only good for 2 CoP hits, but that wouldn't normally be enough to kill the whole mob in HM. You still need your AP target to die fast and with a fast enough Discord team behind you, the target dies quickly after just 1 CoP and skills recharged, no need for AE.