Ok, thinking this needs a fix, but doubt it will happen. Considering Flashing Blades got a boost, Glad's Defense looks like crap now. I know the general use isn't good, and never will be, but it has uses for some farming builds, etc. Compare the numbers for Flashing Blades and Gladiator's Defense.
15 Dagger Master
" For 30 seconds, you have a 75% chance to block incoming attacks while attacking. If you block an attack in this way, your attacker takes 20 damage."
Can be maintained 100% as the recharge and the duration are the same. Damage is dealt to any attack, whether it me melee or ranged, even a wand triggers it.
15 Tactics
"For 11 seconds you have a 75% chance to block incoming attacks. Whenever you block a melee attack this way, the attacker suffers 35 damage."
Only effects melee attacks, only lasts 11 seconds, and recharge is 30 seconds, so just a tad over 1/3 of the time can this be active.
Glad D will do more damage, but not a huge difference. However, since it can't be maintained like Flashing Blades, and it only works on melee attacks, it has much fewer uses. The clause of 'while attacking' for FB is not at all hard to meet.
Would hate to see a nerf to FB, but I think a few possible fixes could occur.
1) Reduce block % of FB to 50%
2) Reduce duration of FB to 25 seconds at 15 Dagger Mastery
3) Increase duration of GD to 25 seconds at 15 Tactics
4) Allow GD to cause damage to all attacks, not just melee
5) Make GD a skill, so another stance can be used at the same time
1 and 2 are not what I want to see. I do think they would allow Glad's Defense to be more useful. Both skills can be used from a secondary and both function in similar ways. I just don't understand why FB for a buff and GD got nothing.
Gladiator's Defense
MagmaRed
Tyla
Niether of these skills are a problem nor will they see use unless they're horribly imbalanced. /Notsigned.
zelgadissan
The reason why Glad's got nothing is because the only people who look at Tactics anymore are monks.
Still, I have no problem with it getting a little more love. Personally my choice would be #5, similar to Warrior's Endurance being switched to a skill.
/signed
Still, I have no problem with it getting a little more love. Personally my choice would be #5, similar to Warrior's Endurance being switched to a skill.
/signed
ac1inferno
Gladiator's Defense can be kept up with Renewing Smash. But when compared to Whirling Defense and Sliver Armor, Gladiator's Defense is a really bad skill. It has:
30 second recharge, low duration.
Negligible damage/effect.
Elite status.
Fix one of those and it should be good.
30 second recharge, low duration.
Negligible damage/effect.
Elite status.
Fix one of those and it should be good.
Hailey Anne
I agree with Tyla.
There is no NEED for this as you like to point out alot.
/notsigned
There is no NEED for this as you like to point out alot.
/notsigned
Winterclaw
I'd make it so that GD can last ten seconds but recharges in 15.
Something like
5e 15 recharge
Stance. For 5...10 seconds you have a 75% chance to block attacks. Whenever you block a melee attack in this manner the attacker takes 5...29 damage.
Something like
5e 15 recharge
Stance. For 5...10 seconds you have a 75% chance to block attacks. Whenever you block a melee attack in this manner the attacker takes 5...29 damage.
JASON626
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Winterclaw
I'd make it so that GD can last ten seconds but recharges in 15.
Something like 5e 15 recharge Stance. For 5...10 seconds you have a 75% chance to block attacks. Whenever you block a melee attack in this manner the attacker takes 5...29 damage. |
jaximus
you cant compare the two skills.
FB: the while attacking clause is funny. you so only block when you hit stuff. with the way assassin bars work, you spike and recharge, the only sustained attack for any decent time duration is the moebius/blossom combo with the logically superior crit strike/crit def, where moebius is the elite. the while attacking makes it so FB fails when you need it most. ss/empathy/reckless/price of failure/faint all hurt you or inhibit your ability to attack. so as a sin, in say ra for example, you come across these hexes a lot. so you choose to eat the damage from these to prevent attacks from hitting you or stop attacking to prevent on attack damage and take the other teams attack skills? plus the whole FB being an elite stance takes away the possibility for an attack speed boost, except wep of aggression. an issue here though would be that when wanding/bow/spearing at range, you take damage, should just be adjacent range take damage, yeah sins are ninjas, but not that good...
glads def is fine. as a warrior you shouldnt need to block all the time. getting hit helps with adrenaline, even though its small, it helps. if you are bonded by a monk, blocking doesnt trigger life bond for balth spirit. skills like on your knees and renewing smash help to manage durations of this stance. glads defense allows you to use skills during also, so you block during activation of heal sig/lions comfort. it wasnt meant to be used as a stand in there and take a beating for a long time skill, it was a gather aggro keep you alive when your monk had to wait a bit skill; tank and spank. if you wanna aggro a ton and not take damage, use dolyaks signet.
FB: the while attacking clause is funny. you so only block when you hit stuff. with the way assassin bars work, you spike and recharge, the only sustained attack for any decent time duration is the moebius/blossom combo with the logically superior crit strike/crit def, where moebius is the elite. the while attacking makes it so FB fails when you need it most. ss/empathy/reckless/price of failure/faint all hurt you or inhibit your ability to attack. so as a sin, in say ra for example, you come across these hexes a lot. so you choose to eat the damage from these to prevent attacks from hitting you or stop attacking to prevent on attack damage and take the other teams attack skills? plus the whole FB being an elite stance takes away the possibility for an attack speed boost, except wep of aggression. an issue here though would be that when wanding/bow/spearing at range, you take damage, should just be adjacent range take damage, yeah sins are ninjas, but not that good...
glads def is fine. as a warrior you shouldnt need to block all the time. getting hit helps with adrenaline, even though its small, it helps. if you are bonded by a monk, blocking doesnt trigger life bond for balth spirit. skills like on your knees and renewing smash help to manage durations of this stance. glads defense allows you to use skills during also, so you block during activation of heal sig/lions comfort. it wasnt meant to be used as a stand in there and take a beating for a long time skill, it was a gather aggro keep you alive when your monk had to wait a bit skill; tank and spank. if you wanna aggro a ton and not take damage, use dolyaks signet.
wind fire and ice
Both skills are bad,neither needs a buff,they wouldnt effect any one if they were removed from the game honestly,tactics is never used by warriors,and monks wont use an elite blocking stance.
MithranArkanere
It could use some love.
But rememeber that tactics has a lot of blocking skills, while Dagger mastery has only that one.
When you balance you balance the whole attribute related to the rest, not just skill by skill.
But rememeber that tactics has a lot of blocking skills, while Dagger mastery has only that one.
When you balance you balance the whole attribute related to the rest, not just skill by skill.
jaximus
sins arent tanks, sins shouldnt block
MithranArkanere
Tanks endure damage mostly with armor and health. Strenght has a lot of those. Tactics is a warrior attribute, but can be used by others. And there are other professions with blocks, like Mesmers, Rangers and Monks, yet they aren't Tanks.
Assassins are more in the 'escape' side. Evasion no longer exists, but it was 'moved' to block.
So blocking is perfectly logical of an Assassin.
Assassins are more in the 'escape' side. Evasion no longer exists, but it was 'moved' to block.
So blocking is perfectly logical of an Assassin.
HawkofStorms
Well, I agree the skill isn't that great... but GW has no need for a pure tanking class or pure tanking skills anyways. The entire concept of those skills just don't fit in with GW's play style
(although the sins who have tons of blocking in RA when my team doesn't have a SINGLE way to strip and I'm playing monk are kinda annoying. Though I blame my teammates for that more then I blame the sin for them not having any counters).
(although the sins who have tons of blocking in RA when my team doesn't have a SINGLE way to strip and I'm playing monk are kinda annoying. Though I blame my teammates for that more then I blame the sin for them not having any counters).
MagmaRed
Well, I highly doubt any change outside of making it 'godmode' will give it use in PvP. I wasn't intending this to be a PvE-v-PvP skill debate. Tanking is used in PvE for several places, and whether you agree with it or not, it works when done right. My intention wasn't to use this for tanking though, in fact, I may not use it even if changed. I do feel, however, that it needs a change. Why? It is worse than the closest skill to it, and worse by a far margin.
I could live with a duration to 10 seconds and a recharge of 15 as mentioned. But when the skill can't only be used 1/3 of the time, and only effects one form of attack, while its relative from the Assassin class works against all attacks and can be maintained indefinitely, it is bad.
I'm asking for a bad skill to be made an average skill.
I could live with a duration to 10 seconds and a recharge of 15 as mentioned. But when the skill can't only be used 1/3 of the time, and only effects one form of attack, while its relative from the Assassin class works against all attacks and can be maintained indefinitely, it is bad.
I'm asking for a bad skill to be made an average skill.
IronSheik
It doesn't affect one form of attack, it blocks ALL attacks, but only triggers on Melee, and aren't you complaining about the block here, not damage? And whoever said about blades only work while attacking is right, Flashing blades needs a buff at most, not a nerf. If you put any anti melee on a FB sin, Bye bye sin. Glad defense is a farming skill, not a PvP skill, use it with dwarven stability and be quiet.
/not signed
/not signed
Konig Des Todes
FB needs a nerf, for it not to deal damage back to ranged attacks.
And GB should last 25 seconds at 15 Tactics, imo.
Nothing else needs to change.
And GB should last 25 seconds at 15 Tactics, imo.
Nothing else needs to change.
Tyla
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin
FB needs a nerf, for it not to deal damage back to ranged attacks.
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The Meth
Just because one mediocre skill is better then another mediocre skill doesn't mean either one needs to be buffed/nerfed.
Luminarus
Both skills are subpar. Anyone using either needs to learn to play better. Enough said.
Shinka
ya... shd increase the duration or decrease the recharge time.
A11Eur0
Quote:
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Originally Posted by jaximus
sins arent tanks, sins shouldnt block
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Sins are physical melee fighters. Yes, they should block, or be able to block. You don't need to "tank" to take advantage of blocking. Blocking takes pressure off of your healer/protter in the form of damage self-abatement.
From what you said, you're saying Warriors should block because they're Tanks. Warriors do much better in a group dealing damage than tanking. Warriors who merely tank I feel are a waste of a group slot.A character which can absorb a damage spike and still deal significant damage is more valuable than a character who can deal a crapload of damage every 30 seconds but dies if you look at him wrong, or takes all the damage in the world but doesn't have any way of dealing significant damage when the group needs him to.
zwei2stein
Okay, theorycraft:
Glads defense should not depend on foe to be stupid to do anything:
"Gladiators defense: for 20 seconds you have 75% chance to block and deal X..X piercing damage to foe attacking. Lasts for 10 blocks. When gladiators defence ends one adjacent foe suffers X..X piercing damage for each seccond it was active. If Gladiators defense lasted its full duration foes in area suffer bleeding for 20 seconds and one foe in area suffers deep wound for 5 seconds."
Obvious dilemma: let it last full duration and you get nasty spike on random target along with covered DW. Or you can attack him and convert that spike to manageable pressure. Or you can just snare him. But point is that you can no longer ignore him.
Smart players can also use its ending effect as spike assist with cancel stance (but wouldn't be able to get DW/Bleed effect).
(yes, it would be abuseable by someone activating it before skirmish. /concept bashing care )
Glads defense should not depend on foe to be stupid to do anything:
"Gladiators defense: for 20 seconds you have 75% chance to block and deal X..X piercing damage to foe attacking. Lasts for 10 blocks. When gladiators defence ends one adjacent foe suffers X..X piercing damage for each seccond it was active. If Gladiators defense lasted its full duration foes in area suffer bleeding for 20 seconds and one foe in area suffers deep wound for 5 seconds."
Obvious dilemma: let it last full duration and you get nasty spike on random target along with covered DW. Or you can attack him and convert that spike to manageable pressure. Or you can just snare him. But point is that you can no longer ignore him.
Smart players can also use its ending effect as spike assist with cancel stance (but wouldn't be able to get DW/Bleed effect).
(yes, it would be abuseable by someone activating it before skirmish. /concept bashing care )
Trylo
warriors are the last class anyone should be thinking about touching.
jaximus
Quote:
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Originally Posted by A11Eur0
From what you said, you're saying Warriors should block because they're Tanks. Warriors do much better in a group dealing damage than tanking. Warriors who merely tank I feel are a waste of a group slot.A character which can absorb a damage spike and still deal significant damage is more valuable than a character who can deal a crapload of damage every 30 seconds but dies if you look at him wrong, or takes all the damage in the world but doesn't have any way of dealing significant damage when the group needs him to.
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sins are designed as a hit and run fighter, hence the lower AL than a warrior. the whole idea of classes is so each has strengths and weaknesses. with the advent of pve only skills and the norn blessings, classes merged together, this isnt what GW is about so why make all classes strong for everything. its sad people think they way they do.
A11Eur0
Quote:
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Originally Posted by jaximus
have you ever played warrior? if you cant do both you shouldnt be playing warrior. people want things easy and thats why permas are the new 'tank.'
sins are designed as a hit and run fighter, hence the lower AL than a warrior. the whole idea of classes is so each has strengths and weaknesses. with the advent of pve only skills and the norn blessings, classes merged together, this isnt what GW is about so why make all classes strong for everything. its sad people think they way they do. |
3.5 years playing warrior. Read my post again. Idiot.
IronSheik
Quote:
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Originally Posted by jaximus
sins are designed as a hit and run fighter.
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Owik Gall
Ok guys, I'm about to throw in my ten cents here and I'm attempting to make it a good one.
First off, sins and warriors can have multiple functions. They don't have to just hit and run, or run in and tank. That's just the preferred method, which I admit they do work. People just need to use a little more variety and change this a little with their class.
Now, back to the topic. GD IS a good skill already because it is balanced. You have an elite block stance that hits back melee. It's duration being 1/3 of the recharge further proves that it is well balanced. It's only the pressure of other builds and situations that down grades the use of the skill. I bet if used in a well concentrated build with a well concentrated team it can work. Overall it's fairly decent with regards that nothing should be close to overpowered. If this helps, think of it as CB worthy.
For those who insists that FB and GD shouldn't be compared, I ask that you look at any one of those skills in wiki and then you'll see the other in the related skills section. That said, GD and FB are a bit similar, but accomplish their effect differently than the other.
FB is also good where it is. If it is taken down to 50% blocking then there's no use for it because an assassin player would want to risk killing enemy before getting killed rather then depend on a blocking skill of 50% that hinders a lot of offensive skills. In other words, 50% blocking is below the limits of usefulness for this skill. It already makes it so the user can't use any other stance and must be attacking for the effect to work. Sure, it lasts longer than GD, but the long casting time still leaves a bit of pressure. For example the user needs to switch a stance to run faster, but has to risk waiting for FB to fully charge. FB charges in 30 seconds, which by the way is how long GB takes also.
Take these factors to mind with a second thought about requesting either one of those skills to change.
P.S.
If I have to change any one of those skills I'd just make GB last as long as FB.
First off, sins and warriors can have multiple functions. They don't have to just hit and run, or run in and tank. That's just the preferred method, which I admit they do work. People just need to use a little more variety and change this a little with their class.
Now, back to the topic. GD IS a good skill already because it is balanced. You have an elite block stance that hits back melee. It's duration being 1/3 of the recharge further proves that it is well balanced. It's only the pressure of other builds and situations that down grades the use of the skill. I bet if used in a well concentrated build with a well concentrated team it can work. Overall it's fairly decent with regards that nothing should be close to overpowered. If this helps, think of it as CB worthy.
For those who insists that FB and GD shouldn't be compared, I ask that you look at any one of those skills in wiki and then you'll see the other in the related skills section. That said, GD and FB are a bit similar, but accomplish their effect differently than the other.
FB is also good where it is. If it is taken down to 50% blocking then there's no use for it because an assassin player would want to risk killing enemy before getting killed rather then depend on a blocking skill of 50% that hinders a lot of offensive skills. In other words, 50% blocking is below the limits of usefulness for this skill. It already makes it so the user can't use any other stance and must be attacking for the effect to work. Sure, it lasts longer than GD, but the long casting time still leaves a bit of pressure. For example the user needs to switch a stance to run faster, but has to risk waiting for FB to fully charge. FB charges in 30 seconds, which by the way is how long GB takes also.
Take these factors to mind with a second thought about requesting either one of those skills to change.
P.S.
If I have to change any one of those skills I'd just make GB last as long as FB.
Darksun
uhhh.. Sins & Warriors are completely different..
If a Sin gets hit he takes more damage & generally has less health to absorb it. The whole point is that Sins survive by NOT getting hit. Warriors Absorb damage.
If a Sin gets hit he takes more damage & generally has less health to absorb it. The whole point is that Sins survive by NOT getting hit. Warriors Absorb damage.
jaximus
Quote:
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Originally Posted by A11Eur0
3.5 years of playing...Idiot.
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A11Eur0
Quote:
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Originally Posted by jaximus
prolly a w/mo with mending amirite?
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Again: read my post. Idiot. the whole thing was about the ability to both deal and absorb/mitigate damage being present for both Assassins and Warriors. Just that with warrior's it's inherent through the +30(vs physical) armor, and with the sin it's through blocking/self healing/armor boosting skills. I won't even mention Warrior's tactics line...really only useful in specialty builds in specialty areas. Though i do on occasion enjoy laughing at luxon sins with my riposte/GD build in AB.
jaximus
im gonna make the assumption its people like you A11Eur0 that made sins the beaten stepchild of the pve world until permas came around. the warriors tactics line had a good run. but sadly blocking in the modern gw can hurt more than it helps. skills like rigor mortis, expose defenses, and the incredibly powerful but underused defile defenses punish blocking and leave you vulnerable. sins are especially vulnerable because many of their buffs are easily strippable enchants. warriors > sins, enough said
Shasgaliel
Quote:
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Originally Posted by wind fire and ice
Both skills are bad,neither needs a buff,they wouldnt effect any one if they were removed from the game honestly,tactics is never used by warriors,and monks wont use an elite blocking stance.
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I guess you have not seen tactics based solo farming builds for warriors? I use GD often on my farming warrior and I would not mind reducing recharge rate for this skill. I would be unhappy if it was removed from the game. I have to admit I will not use tactics at all playing pvp but in pve it is still useful and GD is really nice elite to use.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by A11Eur0
Idiot.
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Zodiac Meteor
/signed
Glads D is being used more than Flashing Blades, thats saying something.
Glads D is being used more than Flashing Blades, thats saying something.
Chocobo1
Why does everyone say Warriors don't need to be touched? PvP wise they are pretty alright, but PvE they need something to compare to the tanking ability of Shadow Form.
Jbrown
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Chocobo1
Why does everyone say Warriors don't need to be touched? PvP wise they are pretty alright, but PvE they need something to compare to the tanking ability of Shadow Form.
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Pretty sure Defy Pain can mitigate far more damage than Glads Defense will ever be able to not to mention you can keep it up the whole time AND never have to spec into the terri-badness that tactics is. Warriors are made for big damage, not to sit there and say "lulz, i am doing 35 damage to you."
Azza
Quote:
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Originally Posted by zelgadissan
The reason why Glad's got nothing is because the only people who look at Tactics anymore are monks.
Still, I have no problem with it getting a little more love. Personally my choice would be #5, similar to Warrior's Endurance being switched to a skill. /signed |
Warriors who dont use tactics, should!!, many skills in there to make tanking pleasantly easy/survivable without heavy healing or any bonds/enchantments.
but on the subject at Hand
/signed
but Dwarven Stability causes it to last Longer(dont know any 1 who uses gladiators defense in PvP)
but a good Upgrade would be to increase its Duration and change it to a skill, and have it so u cant be the target of spells. or atleast decrease the recharge time instead of increasing Duration.
Tyla
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Chocobo1
Why does everyone say Warriors don't need to be touched? PvP wise they are pretty alright, but PvE they need something to compare to the tanking ability of Shadow Form.
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Destro Maniak
I think that people should GRIND snowman dungeon and get r10 deldrimor to use 20sec gladiaor defence with dvarwen stability
The Meth
lol, tanks.
12chars
12chars