Help /w Build

craigrs84

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2007

A/

A/D

Have the basic idea down, needs refinement.

Signet of Pious Restraint
<Enchantment/Hex>
Beguiling Haze
Golden Phoenix Strike/Black Spider Strike
Trampling Ox
Falling Lotus Strike
Twisting Fangs
Rez

-OR-

Signet of Pious Restraint
Way of the Lotus/Attacker's Insight
Beguiling Haze
Golden Fox Strike
Wild Strike
Twisting Fangs
Critical Strike
Rez

-OR-

Signet of Pious Restraint
Way of the Lotus/Attacker's Insight
Beguiling Haze
Golden Fox Strike
Wild Strike
Death Blossom
<Optional>
Rez

Bobby2

Bobby2

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2007

Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards

[MaSS]

W/E

Scrap the last one, any build without Deep Wound needs to be buried, the first one you posted is easily the best

Looks like...

http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:A/D_Haze_Gank

SoPR for Trampling over HotO is nice enough, though with stuff like Whirling Charge/Harrier's Haste competing, I doubt it's worth the slot

wind fire and ice

wind fire and ice

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Oct 2008

There

[ToA]

First is best,the idea isnt that great though,a simple stance->condition remove could make you useless for a good while.

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

first one is kinda OK, might need attacker's insight though, best enchie for it.

X Cytherea X

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

A/Mo

you waste 2 seconds of the daze if you knockdown the target. that's redundant.

do this...

signet of pious restraint
vow of piety <--cheap 1/4 ench for the lol
beguiling haze
golden lotus strike
golden fang strike
death blossom <-- do this twice!
golden phoenix strike
rez

or this...

signet of pious restraint
enduring toxin <--cheap 1/4 hex for the lol
beguiling haze
black lotus strike
jungle strike <-- +dmg from the cripple
twisting fangs
malicious strike
rez

keep sinning.

Bobby2

Bobby2

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2007

Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards

[MaSS]

W/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by X Cytherea X View Post
you waste 2 seconds of the daze if you knockdown the target. that's redundant. wat

/12chars

X Cytherea X

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

A/Mo

what's the point of dazing if you're gonna kd anyway

Bobby2

Bobby2

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2007

Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards

[MaSS]

W/E

Daze isn't a guarantee to interrupt everything, 1/4 casts will come through pretty often, so 2 sec of -absolutely- nothing is still pretty hawt

nor does Daze snare stuff down

PS on good bars there is no room for 'for the lol' skillz

EDIT to response: no

X Cytherea X

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

A/Mo

the 2 builds i suggested (put together completely in my head) are better than all 3 in the OP tbh. i tried to stick to his concept tho (which at its core isnt too great to begin with)

X Cytherea X

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

A/Mo

they're better in every way, including e-management in the lead attack (logical cuz u do BH which is expensive), deepwound and damage.

in the OP, 1st has kd and daze which is redundant, 2nd has an alternate dual for e-management which wastes a slot, 3rd is too weak.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by X Cytherea X View Post
what's the point of dazing if you're gonna kd anyway It adds the element of additional disruption to the build. Put it this way, a Monk won't get a Guardian off simply because the fact that when you shadowstep, it interrupts and dazes leaving that spot for a 2s cast Guardian easy to disrupt, moreso with additional people. It's possible to get a Guardian up without on even a 4 attack skill chain, however. It also snares your target and disallows them to use anything but certain skills; such as Endure Pain, Shield Bash and various stances. Either way, there's not much you could have used in that slot otherwise. For an O-D-O-D chain you're restricted to using HoTO or Trampling, which means you've got to hope your targets aren't bunched with HoTO and use your elite slot up with Trampling. Another one is the fact that you've got one more choice: Hex and enchantment, which leaves your chain even more open to breaking, but allows more power in the chain (Twisting - BoS).

Oh, and your chains are pretty bad. For one, niether has an IAS. An IAS accelerates the rate of your kill and reduces the chance of a failed kill, and also helps your own disruption. Without it, they have a higher chance of getting their skills off, for example, if they were on their staff set and got a HCT on their Guardian that's well timed mid-attack, your chain would be took apart unless you miraculously pop all 7 attacks through that Guardian. With a knockdown, the chances of that happening fall dramatically, and you will kill more efficiently. Keep in mind that things such as Patient Spirit may come into this equation, as that can just as easily kill your chain. I haven't even took into account outside professions either deliberately by the way.

X Cytherea X

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

A/Mo

fair enough. still feels a bit weird.

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by X Cytherea X View Post
the 2 builds i suggested (put together completely in my head) are better than all 3 in the OP tbh. i tried to stick to his concept tho (which at its core isnt too great to begin with) I think you should really sort your ego bubble issues out dude. Builds youve posted are pretty bad because they dont have a good ias, they dont have kd and their damage isnt enough, at all. Also your statements are pretty terrible if you ask me, what do you mean kd is redundant, lolwut, 2 second of total shutdown is pretty hot daze or not.

Also, OP first build is pretty fine tbh other two are pretty bad but not worse than youre stuff.

X Cytherea X

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

A/Mo

- the OP doesnt have an IAS either.
- an IAS doesnt fit anyway, if you want 4 attack skills, bh, res, sopr, ench/hex.
- the damage of the builds i posted are pretty much the same or greater than the OP...
- ... but of course you're too lazy to do the math and will just disagree automatically.
- i already said i was sticking to the OP's concept.
- if you're running kd might as well not daze and bring a better elite.
- if you're running daze might as well not kd and bring more damage.
- although if you reeeally want to bring both for "total shutdown" i'll agree it doesnt hurt.
- you have your own issues to sort out... "dudes".

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by X Cytherea X View Post
- the OP doesnt have an IAS either.
- an IAS doesnt fit anyway, if you want 4 attack skills, bh, res, sopr, ench/hex.
Golden Phoenix, Trampling, Spider, Twisting, Insight, BH, Signet, Res seems like the best idea to me.

Quote:
- if you're running kd might as well not daze and bring a better elite.
- if you're running daze might as well not kd and bring more damage. KD doesnt go off right away and doesnt last for the full spike on other hand disables your target for 2 seconds completely adding more disruption to the build + triggers spider, having both gives your target double pain.

Quote:
- you have your own issues to sort out... "dudes". Like?

X Cytherea X

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

A/Mo

a 5 hit combo (including 2 death blossoms, the 2nd most damaging dual) on a crippled, dazed, deepwounded target is no joke. aaand this combo has a shorter cooldown and can function while waiting for BH and SOPR to recharge. 10secs as opposed to 20secs (because the OP's version is entirely dependent on the cripple) thus it will net u way moar damage overall.

[signet of pious restraint][vow of piety][beguiling haze][golden lotus strike][golden fang strike][death blossom][golden phoenix strike][resurrection signet]

you can also spam cripple and heal a bit by doing vop->sopr (like if you're hexed or blinded for example, do something useful in the meantime).

there's nothing really wrong with the OP's first build + insight though. i just find this more interesting.

Bobby2

Bobby2

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2007

Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards

[MaSS]

W/E

Get something better than Vow of Piety, FGJ!.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
Another one is the fact that you've got one more choice: Hex and enchantment, which leaves your chain even more open to breaking, but allows more power in the chain (Twisting - BoS). You could go Ench based for GSS and GPS.

But yeah, GSS...

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

[build prof=A/D box dagger=11+1+1 crit=12+1 wind=6][grenth's fingers][golden skull strike][pious fury][trampling ox][falling lotus strike][twisting fangs][dash][resurrection signet][/build] is good imo.

X Cytherea X

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

A/Mo

^not bad, apart from needing 35 energy before u reach falling lotus

there's a version of that with insight,gss,tf,gps,bos

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

Well, you should pre-cast grenth's fingers so your spike would cost 25e now.

Also:
[build prof=A/D box dagger=11+1+1 crit=12+1 wind=6][attacker's insight][whirling charge][golden skull strike][twisting fangs][golden phoenix strike][blades of steel][assassin's remedy][resurrection signet][/build]

^this? It might be better actually although it lacks kd and doesnt have good enough ims and snare.

lord_shar

lord_shar

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2005

near SF, CA

Here are several variants based on AoD / Whirling Charge...

The first five skills:
[signet of pious restraint][aura of displacement][iron palm][whirling charge][falling spider]

For condition spike: [twisting fangs][signet of deadly corruption]
For KD-disruption: [trampling ox][impale]

Eigth Slot = res sig

Dagger Mastery = 12, Deadly Arts =12, Critical Strikes = 8, Wind Prayers = 7
Equipment: full raidiant armor, 1 rune of atunement, +5 energy +30 life non-zealous daggers

I haven't clocked the #2 variant yet, but #1 can score an 8-11 sec kill times vs. the Master of Damage depending on luck.

This set-up is NOT cheap... it requires 38+ base energy to consistently use. However, it has a shadow-step hit/run, 9 seconds IAS/movement speed, cripple, condition degen, and 1-2 knockdowns depending the skill variant selected.

Enjoy...

Luminarus

Luminarus

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Aug 2007

Sydney, Australia

Haze of Light [pure]

R/

8-11 second kills are pretty crap. If you dont kill them in 6 seconds then theres no point. Hell, 6 seconds is incredibly slow as it is.

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

I dont like your skill set, besides sadow steps have aftercast now, and thats makes you think if you want to shadow step or simply run to your target, both are eually predictable/prottable now.

Luminarus

Luminarus

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Aug 2007

Sydney, Australia

Haze of Light [pure]

R/

I dont use sin much anymore, but ill try next chance I get.

moriz

moriz

??ber t??k-n??sh'??n

Join Date: Jan 2006

Canada

R/

shove does not have an aftercast, which allows the next dagger attack to execute immediately after shove finishes. it shouldn't affect the next one after that.

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

I was thinking about this:

[flail][unsuspecting strike][shove][falling spider][falling lotus strike][twisting fangs][dash][resurrection signet]

You can fit both spider and lotus under one shove y'know.

X Cytherea X

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

A/Mo

^it has [dash] for runners. it cant do anything about snares or antimelee.

id definitely replace [unsuspecting strike] with one of these...
[malicious strike] / [thrill of victory] / [wild blow] / [signet of malice]

Bobby2

Bobby2

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2007

Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards

[MaSS]

W/E

lolwut. / just lol. / decent utility, might not wanna run flail. / the condition you should be worried about is Blind, gl @ making it work.

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

It works, not that it works really well but fitting two on kd skills in one kd is fun.

Luminarus

Luminarus

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Aug 2007

Sydney, Australia

Haze of Light [pure]

R/

That only works if they havent moved at all in the 3/4 cast of shove. I dont rely on that though, in mine unless they have IMS you can catch them with falling spider. (Can swap in tiger for flail if you want, I just grabbed flail for that scenario because it lasted longer and had to be cast before shove because it disables them.

Luminarus

Luminarus

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Aug 2007

Sydney, Australia

Haze of Light [pure]

R/

Unsuspecting should deal damage if hitting target in the back, so its more "unsuspecting"... the 90% hp deal is useless anywhere. Useful one time every battle, makes a skills pointless.