KoaBD screwed up the title system

Just look at how many threads we have about maxing titles today:

Bots are getting unbanned because it's ok to bot to max an excessively grindy title, Gamer title seems more feasible to max now that we can potentially get 50 points per match in costume brawl, Treasure hunter/Wisdom are becoming account based so "yay I'll have them maxed", etc.

Everything because we have this other title track, called "kind of a big deal" and it makes the biggest shiny thing in HoM. Because of it, everyone is compelled to shoot for not for just one title, perhaps one they would enjoy farming, but for 30... and when you finish the first 25 you could tolerate, there's 5 mindless grinder or money-sink titles left (not sure about the exact numbers here, but for the sake of the argument) but since anet put this ultimate title in the game, people force themselves through the rest of the grind.

Now, that's what we have. My main gripe is with what we don't have, though. When anet chose to add KoaBD title to the game they made an important design decision and they have been reinforcing it since if KoaBD exists, titles must be maxable. As a result of that philosophy, we're getting the upcoming title rebalance, in which anet claims to make the excessively grindy titles easier to max. Earlier, we got a change to the "skill hunter" title, because it wasn't maxable in its first implementation.

What if we didn't have KoaBD? What if title design would not be restricted by the idea that titles can be maxed. We could have treasure hunter/wisdom 8,9,10,11 drunkard/party animal/sweet tooth 3,4, EotN rep ranks beyond 10, you could even stop skill efficiency scaling after 10 for the sake of balance (lol I just said balance in PvE). PvP titles are a good example here. They're essentially unmaxable (go away, starcraft >.>) and nobody is trying to max them, so you keep getting your favourite title higher and higher.

They could extend many titles like that, into the unimaginably high ranks... say treasure hunter (9) would require double the number of chests than the current maximum (7) and treasure hunter (12) would be 10 times the current cap, and if someone in the game actually achieved that, anet could add 3 more ranks without upsetting anyone else, because, hey, you don't have to max it.

IMO someone with lightbringer (14) would stand out just as much as GWAMM, and it would also identify the player as a hardcore DoA-er, rather than having this one generic title grinder badge.

I'm kind of inclined to agree.

The title system is screwed up, and KoaBD is just another symptom. I am convinced that the people complaining about maxing KoaBD would just gripe about how hard it is to get rank X in Y title, even if the ranks in said title provided no benefit. Or, they would complain that progressing past a certain rank provided no benefit. Or, they would complain about X, Y, or Z.
Point is, people will complain.

no1 forces any1 to max titles....


it's just what ppl want


MOAR titles and moar rankz!

so how do u get more cartography points once u explore 100% of the map, how do you complete mission objective after you finished them all. Honestly what you are asking for makes no sence. Also talking about balance, a r14 lightbringer would do 30% more damage than the current r8. Then there teasure hunter, eventually you could get the title high enough that you can't break lockpicks anymore. No limits on titles would reak havok to this game.

Yes, but at least then you could say with confidence that their complaints are completely baseless.

I don't think anyone's stupid or naive enough to actually suggest that it's possible to stop all complaints from everyone forever.

I never said all titles can be extended infinitely. Cartography would still cap at 100%. Vanquisher would still cap once you vanquished eveyrthing. Legendary cartographer and legendary vanquisher would still be in the game. I'm talking about the titles that can be extended further, but limited only because of the existence of KoaBD.

I already addressed the balance point. Anet could cap all title-related benefits at 10, or add diminishing returns.

DoA Cryway LF LB12+ ONLY!!!!!!


No thanks.

No one forces any one to grind there titles to get GWAMM, its entirely player choice, So quit whining just because you cant accept that fact, and move past pre, or better move to another game,


And as mentioned, you really want people, LFP r14 ss as well for ultra CoP ?? Maybe r12 Asura for extended PI, Honestly, if you cant live with it, get over it, move on and stop complaining.

Ta...

Titles are a step in the right direction. It gives the people who enjoy mmorpgs to grind excessively and gain accomplishments. It makes them play the game longer and enjoy it more. If it wasn't for titles, a lot of people would have been bored and quit, knowing that their was nothing to do besides gain some uber rare skin and beat mallyx/ elite areas again and again.

Guild Wars 2 will be more like a traditional rpg which is what a lot of gamers wanted in guild wars. Thus it is a good thing for those who want the grind and to level up excessively with titles.

For all the whiners and complainers, be quiet and live with your rank 1 titles. Like you stated you don't have to max them. They are there for the "hardcore" gamers who want to max all the stuff and enjoy accomplishing all the extra tasks.

Kind Of A Big Deal ruined the ability to add fun titles.

I disagree, GWAMM was an inevitability with the title system that would exist even if it didn't (hey look I have 15 titles maxed lol), it's just a visible name.

Yes let's tell people to leave a dying game (that makes sense), especially when it's the Title System that has betrayed 2 of the games advertised features. (skill > time betrayed by time giving you power, and no grind betrayed by having grind that actually gives you a bonus over other players.)

No one forces you to do it, but then again no one forces you to equip max weapons, equip max armor, put attribute points into your attributes, level up, or set a skill bar, yet if you want to actually get anywhere in the game and be max power, you have to do it, just like you have to grind if you want your PvE skills to be max power. Thankfully Linsey is changing all this because she knows what the game is supposed to be about (thank god someone at ArenaNet does.)

I challenge the notion of people being hardcore games because they invest their time excessively into one game. I like to think of hardcore players as gamers who can play any game, any genre, not just one. Might just be my history of gaming in the 90ies though. Still I challenge that definition of hardcore, to me it's dumbcore, because you have to be dumb not to play all those other great games out there in pursuit of KoabD.

I tend to agree with the Op about the KOABD title track, it does almost make a few more people want to push that bit more to get something from it.
To reduce grind this would help, as people wouldnt need to do a title they didnt necessarily want, just to achieve another one.

also i really cant believe how many people have already shown an inability to read properly, and then reply in a sarcastic manner about LF r12+ LB no thanks, when if they had read in the first place, they would realise it wouldnt happen. But thats just people i suppose.

comeon are you 4 years old and gotta be in focus? what is all the bullshit about hardcore players? seriously listen to yourself? HARDCORE GUILD WARS PLAYERS!!!1

If u cant be arsed to get 30+ maxed titles, dont do it, nothing say u have to.
If u havent got time to do it, pay someone to do it, if u want that bad. Cause that is what people do, to "look" good.

why dont u start judging people for what they are and can do, and not for something they have achieved before, or very likely someone did achieve for them instead?

some people just dont know when they play too much.

KoaBD wasn't really the problem. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the KoaBD title until Nightfall was released, and then the problem got infinitely worse with EotN. Of course, the cherry on the cake was HoM.
All those things did lead to current mess that is the KoaBD title track, real shame. The amount of titles is the problem.

As for unmaxable titles, please God no, it would only add value to the mindless grind and "show off" factor of the titles. Then again, it would seem to go well with ANet ludicrous idea of no level cap in GW2.

My opinion is that there should be way more Max Titles available than which is required to have the max KoaBD title. My reasoning is this: Most hardcore PvPers don't play much PvE and vice-versa. Those people should not be "punished" by making them grind through parts of the game which are not interesting to them. I'd be more interested in maxing my titles if there weren't PvP components that I would have to grind endlessly on. Just as I have no interest in being a max survivor nor level 20 in pre (which is basically the Legendary Deaths title). So, I will never get the maxed titles bit. Now, if there is going to be a significant advantage in GW2 I guess I might be persuaded, but honestly, I really don't know how people have enough gold to buy their way through all the titles... who has that much gold legitimately? It's kind of scary. But then again, I have a very full real life with kids to manage and a job to keep.

Re: "stop whining and grind" posts

I don't understand where in my post you see whining. I deliberately left out any personal information, the post is simply a critique of the current system because I feel the current system is wasting design space. Maybe you should work on your reading skills.

Maybe I should've mentioned that I'm not trying for GWAMM and not even playing the game much outside of AB and Costume Brawl atm.

Now wait a sec. I love the grind. Just me and my mouse and my self playing by myself gaining gold by myself with all the drops to myself so that I can say, "hey self. Hi there self. You did great today getting all those pretty shinny things there. Thanks self. Want to give me some self. Na that would be selfish for me to keep them all to myself self. Sure thing self. Oh and what of your guild members self. Well self they are selfsufficient as there is only myself in the guild called, selfless."

Great story. Can you tell that I play a MMORPG? what the heck is that anyway, Want to know why I play with myself? - that sounded bad but.. cause no one would play with me - and that sounded even worse It was to be an mmorpg but it is now a mmoorpg. the other o stands for outpost as that is the only place that I can trade all my great stuff as there is no guild hall in pre.


So take it from me, it is a self taught game that is selfish and the titles are just for show. They really do not do anything for you. Some give bonus' and some let people show off. So if showing off is your thing then have-at-her

A thread asking...for more grind?

The ability to max titles gives the game purpose in PvE after doing all the missions. It gives player's a sense of achievement to say that they have maxed XX many titles. Unmaxable titles would only lead to an endless grind feeling which would lead to the loss of many players. Even though gwamm feels unreachable, it still is capable of being reached. Why would people want to spend thier time in the game gaining points and more points towards a title if they know that it will never end?

no one really forcing you to max titles and there are guilds that does elite areas without cry way and such things. also if you didnt have titles what will you do? do elite areas the whole time? do missions for doing sake? all titles are are a reward for what your doing even without the titles anyway.

See, the "show off" factor is what I'm trying to develop here. Titles are a show-off feature, arguing they aren't would be silly.

Currently, there is ONE ultimate show-off title in the game, KoaBD, unless you are showing one of the PvP titles which aren't part of it. If KoaBD didn't exist, other titles could have higher ranks and be just as much of a show-off, but with way more variety.

As for the grind, I don't think it would promote more grind, when there's no further gameplay benefits and no point towards KoaBD to earn.

I'm inclined to agree. Very few people I know even display there GWAMM (or lessor level of it) title. People would grind for the titles irrigardless of the existance of the umbrella title.

So, you're essentially saying that since titles can be maxed and that is ruining players' mindsets, you want people to be able to grind past the current max for certain titles?

At face value, it doesn't sound any different than if we were to drop the level cap and allow characters to go past 20. Of course, that would be considering that benefits aren't given for going past the current max... Wait, what's the point of going over then, especially on grind titles? An ego trip?

Looking past making titles uncapped, not having a maxed title track is sorta silly, moreso for characters with more maxed titles than others. The real reason that I think KoaBD is ruining players' mindsets is that the titles that go towards it have different levels of respect in the community. Bought titles such as Sweet Tooth or Party Animal might not have such prestige as Treasure Hunter or Wisdom, and Protector doesn't really show as much accomplishment as Vanquisher. The situation gets even worse once you notice that you're getting what I'd say are "free" titles like Legendary Cartographer or Guardian, just because you got each of the titles in their respective campaigns.

Not really sure what kind of solution there is in this situation, but it's probably not worth evaluating until after the supposed title update coming up. That might change the way some things are looked at.

Link to where it says botting is ok? It didn't happen and won't, period, don't twist words around to help your opinion.

I agree. Last thing I need to deal with are people demanding skills to deal 6-8 more damage than usual than anything else.

I read the OP and all I saw was complaining that kids these days have it too easy, combined with a plea to give DoA farmers another reward besides just money and items.

So very /unsigned.

Meh. Titles screwed titles.

I was doing a lot of things that titles reward BEFORE their titles were added.

The problem with titles is how they are implemented. Few ranks make them slow to raise, so people get bored from seen a slow bar going up.

Even if you keep the max the same, with more ranks in between people is more entertained by how getting the next rank sooner. Like when you shake a keyring with a lot of keys to amuse a baby.
The best example of that is Sunspear. It has a lot of ranks and you get them relatively soon.It's a title nice to get and see.

In the other hand, you have the Festival titles. One you get the first rank, you see the second miles away. And that discourages some people.

So, those that want KoBD don't see movement and start asking for speed and easiness in getting the titles.
You give more ranks in between, and you distract some of them from that.

Anyways, getting all titles in one character or all achievement titles per character it's not a problem, and anyone complaining about them it's just lazy.

But getting the grind ones in all characters... ah... many Guild Wars players won't like grind. So once they get those in one character, they'll feel like "I got it already, why do I have to get it again".

In the case of Wisdom and Treasure the solution was easy and it has been done.

In the case of plot-related grind titles, you can't make them account wide, because they are related to separate places and things each character does.
So, in that case, what can be done...?
Hm... maybe just making them faster to get the more characters maxes them.
So, if you have 9 characters that have maxed the Norn rank, the 10th would get the title... let's say 9 times faster.
Getting the title in one character would be the same, an getting them in 10 would take more time than in one, but a little less than now.
And those that don't see those titles advancing would see them a little faster.

Of course, when it comes to achievement titles (Protector, Carthographer, etc) the is no excuse. Opening a chest or identifying an item it's almost the same with any character. And there is no much difference between riding a Junundu with a Monk or an assassin, the merit is similar.
But going through the plot, vanquishing, questing, making missions... in that case, profession can make quite a difference.

But more rewards here or there...? Haha! No.
Most titles have already rewards.
And only GRIND titles deserve rewards. The reward for an achievement title is the title itself and its statue.
Most PvP titles have already the Balthazar cap reward.
Most Plot-grind titles have skills and such.
And the loot-grind titles have % in lockpicks, salvage, etc..
The only titles left to get a reward are the festival item titles. And the only possible reward that they could deserve is increase duration/power in the effect of the items they are related with, so you don't need as much to maintain the effects and can give more to other characters, while you still need the items to get the effects. If you got Party Animal to 100%, yu deserve getting 75 minutes instead of 50 when you use tonics.

Titles are like FoW armor u get it cuz u want to show off that u got the most expensive armor in game, nobody told u to spend countless hours farming gold to get it u did it cuz u want it to, the same applies to titles instead of asking for more pve grind try to max the hero, champ, gamer, and commander titles. Now if u dnt feel like it or u feel like maxing a pve title would be easier than getting rolled over in pvp then dnt QQ. But this is just my opinion

BTW, nobody EVER said "botting is okay". Some accounts banned for botting on one particular weekend are being considered for restoration on a case-by-case basis. That hardly amounts to a blanket endorsement of botting, and the announcement made it quite clear that botting is still a bannable offense.

Then, you know, people like this probably shouldnt have been playing Guild Wars in the first place. Oh wait, A-net dumped it's design brief of a grind-free game.
the result, is the attracting of the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO'ish players who moan when their precious sticker under their name get's tarnished because it's 'easier' to get by other people. God forbid anyone ruffle their e-peen.

Drats, foiled again.

Titles where and still are a terrible idea. There are better ways to get people to play the game for longer periods.

Massive KoaBD in pre-searing.

titles were fine until nf and gwen came with overpowered skills based on the rank. you never say anyone complaining about someones tyrian explorer title.

the most sad part of this whole title issue, is that since gwen gave players the HoM, they turned from playing the game for fun, to grinding rediculous titles to fill their hall. the pressure players have put on anet to change titles, update title inclusions and so on, anets original proposal for the hall having NO benefit or advantage for players who have a full hall over players that have nothing in their hall when gw2 comes around, will surely have immense pressure to change that too. very very sad.

I generally agree with the OP. There would be nothing wrong with titles if there wasn't a sense of needing to max them. No KoaBD, no HoM and no skill or armour link would remove the contention that many of us feel regarding them.

It's why I'm disappointed account-wide KoaBD is, apparently, off the table. It's the one big bone of contention I don't believe ANet will ever fix. Assurance that there will be no specific reward for KoaBD ranks in GW2 would be a start, though.

You do realise that the time you spend typing this thread down could have gotten you 2 chests towards your chesthunter title?

Agreed, they should annouce that only a full HOM is needed, and that the HOM beacon is for looks only. no koabd benefits at all. that'd certainly cuit down on the grind! 5 trophies, 5 armor 5 heroes, 11 weapons and 20 minipets and you;re done and get the max bling for GW2. no more of this 30 titles nonsense.

anet cant come out and announce that the HoM will do nothing in gw2 cuz people will rage. but they cant give people something for it because that would allow them to start gw2 off ahead of anyone else. its a new game. give everyone 30 max titles so they everyone can start with
'i wasted my last year in gw1 so i could have this wicked sweet title everyone else has(1)'

I think you're wrong about HoM and GW2. Benefits from GW1 could be released when characters hit a certain level or HoM might be located in a high level area.

That aside, KOABD has not ruined the opportunity for fun titles. KOABD can always be raised when there are sufficient titles to justify it. If aNet introduced 30 fun titles, they could certainly add 6 more ranks to koabd. Perhaps they'd look to other Anchorman quotes as title rank names

Amen.....

Let me spin this your way, all of you, XD.
I look at things and then attack them with my ideas and then watch the massive downfall or upscale.

I've looked it over, and over, and over, AND over agian.

Conclusion.....
More destination specific ranks to titles, no more grinding.
Look at some other games, LOtRO for example, great idea with the trait system, but fails.
Why?
-Rage Start-
They thought of a new idea and didnt think of its results properly.
GW2 will need a unique system that says, THIS character FITS MY style.
I like to blow things up with huge damage, no title for damage output, but there is for killing stuff over and over.
>.>
Give me something original, and no I don't care if someone has it maxed or not, it won't mess with me one bit. Go brag, or w/e you get the max titles in GW2 before anyone else.
Question is, would you have as Many titles I may have by then?
........titles dont define players, they define the players ability to persue a goal.....
-Rage Over-