Garriott exits NCsoft as profits plummet - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

hallomik

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

The Illini Tribe

N/Mo

13 Nov 2008 at 01:14 - 1

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6200947.html

Quote:

Space tourist and Tabula Rasa creator wipes slate clean by resigning position at MMOG studio to pursue "new interests"; publisher reports net income down 50 percent year over year.

...

Despite six years of costly development, Tabula Rasa failed to achieve critical mass, selling just over 61,000 copies at US retailers as of September 30, 2008, reports the NPD Group.

...

According to an earnings report released today, Tabula Rasa accounted for only 2 percent of NCsoft's revenue, or 1.76 billion Korean won ($1.3 million) last quarter. For the July-September period, NCsoft saw profits fall 50 percent to 5.0 billion won ($3.7 million) on sales of 78.3 billion won ($58.0 million).

Curiously, Tabula Rasa's monthly subscriber figures were omitted from NCsoft's report, which included figures for most members of the MMORPG specialist's portfolio: Lineage (881,979), Lineage II (857,531), and City of Heroes/Villains (124,939). To date, 5.59 million people have activated accounts for the Seoul-based publisher's free-to-play MMORPG Guild Wars.

I assume the big drop in profits is due to combination of poor Tabula Rasa performance plus no new GW offerings.

Apollo Smile

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2008

[LORE]

E/Mo

13 Nov 2008 at 01:24 - 2

I tried Tabula Rasa... Just couldn't get into it.

Nanood

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Supermans Crystal Palace

Legion Of The Dark Sun

13 Nov 2008 at 01:29 - 3

5.59 million activated accounts in GW. I wonder if that includes the free trial accounts and things like buddy keys.

slowerpoke

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2007

Cuba

13 Nov 2008 at 01:39 - 4

Tabula Rasa, what a waste of money

Xx Da Best Xx

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2008

LA

13 Nov 2008 at 02:10 - 5

Ive never even heard of that game...

Kerwyn Nasilan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2007

WHERE DO YOU THINK

W/

13 Nov 2008 at 02:25 - 6

NOO LURD BRITISH COEM BACK!?!?!?!?

But realy why do ppl still let him design games he is obviously insane.....

Zinger314

Debbie Downer

Join Date: May 2006

N/Me

13 Nov 2008 at 02:54 - 7

He was fired. No one "exits" a business.

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

13 Nov 2008 at 03:08 - 8

If only all their MMOs were free to play with a cash shop selling stuff like anet sell - skill unlocks and extra characters, plus merchandise like posters, coffee mugs, T shirts, mouse mats, collectible game figures for revenue. They could even try selling exclusive cash only weapons / armor skins like the weapons you get from the Proph million edition update - maybe make variable attribute weapons like hourglass staff and sell them for 99p each, this isnt any different to making and selling a piece of art, you just get the art ingame. As long as items sold for cash are purely visual only with no superior bonuses to normal weapons, this would be a great way to increase revenue, plus it encourages them to make decent designs that people would actually be interested in paying for because of how good they look.

draxynnic

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2005

[CRFH]

13 Nov 2008 at 03:25 - 9

Largely, I agree with bhavv. The problem, as I've said before, with profitability in NCSoft's line is that they tend to be competing not just with WoW, but with themselves. I think their idea is to be a company that has an MMO on offer to fit every potential customer, but in practise this seems to lead to the production of a lot of niche offerings that they somehow hope will achieve mainstream sales.

sigshane

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2007

Augusta, GA

R/

13 Nov 2008 at 04:27 - 10

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

... The problem, as I've said before, with profitability in NCSoft's line is that they tend to be competing not just with WoW, but with themselves...

Exactly. I waited and waited for Tabula Rasa, only to blech upon seeing the $40-some-odd price tag, PLUS the monthly fee. The lack of a fee is what got me into Guild Wars in the first place (after the woeful Savage flopped).

I bet that if NCSoft was to lift the monthly fee of TR, more people would play it. Unless they do that, Guild Wars is gonna drive Tabula Rasa, and any other fee-based game they try to roll out, into the dirt.

Shane

FoxBat

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Amazon Basin [AB]

Mo/Me

13 Nov 2008 at 04:41 - 11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

He was fired. No one "exits" a business.

He didn't "exit", he resigned.

Maybe it was a "forced" resignation but, coming right after his return from space, the given story is fairly plausible. This guy is an RPG visionary, and he's probably rather be doing something new even if Rasa was a success.

DarkNecrid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

13 Nov 2008 at 05:08 - 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nanood

5.59 million activated accounts in GW. I wonder if that includes the free trial accounts and things like buddy keys.

It has to, they only have 5 million (or around there) copies sold (havent hit 6 million yet), if it didn't that would mean that everyone who has bought the game as created a new account for each chapter which we all know isn't possible.

DarkFlame

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2005

Ascalon

E/

13 Nov 2008 at 05:57 - 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

He didn't "exit", he resigned.

Resign from what? Isn't NCsoft Austin(where Garriott was) being taken apart for the new NCsoft West?

Shasgaliel

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2008

[bomb]

13 Nov 2008 at 10:21 - 14

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

It has to, they only have 5 million (or around there) copies sold (havent hit 6 million yet), if it didn't that would mean that everyone who has bought the game as created a new account for each chapter which we all know isn't possible.

It this release it was sad GW has 5,69 million copies and we know that the 5 million were hit in February this year. So they sold 690 000 copies between February and now. It is still pretty good for a supposedly dying game no?

DarkNecrid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

13 Nov 2008 at 10:28 - 15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

It this release it was sad GW has 5,69 million copies and we know that the 5 million were hit in February this year. So they sold 690 000 copies between February and now. It is still pretty good for a supposedly dying game no?

That release probably isn't the exact time they hit exactly 5 million copies (I doubt they check constantly), they didn't "sell" 690,000 copies, since friend accounts aren't considered sold, etc. It's hard to say, but either way it isn't a lot of money.

seut

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

Europa

13 Nov 2008 at 10:40 - 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

He was fired.

...into space!

It was pretty obvious that he leaves NCSoft, when he and his brother weren't mentioned to have leading positions in the newly formed NCSoft West.

One last hype for NCSoft with the "send your DNA into space"-campaign and Richard Garriott appearing on the news and the Colbert Report.
"Recently fired Game Designer shot into space" wouldn't have been a headline for the liking of NCSoft. So they waited with the announcement.

The question that remains for me: what happens to Robert Garriott (head of NC Interactive)? Remember, without him risking to experiment there wouldn't be Guild Wars as we know it.

Phaern Majes

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2005

Anywhere but up

The Panserbjorne [ROAR]

R/Mo

13 Nov 2008 at 19:15 - 17

Tabula Rasa was a neat idea but I think Mass Effect pulled it off much better (better graphics as well).

xanarot

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

[GoE]

R/

13 Nov 2008 at 19:28 - 18

Tabula Rasa was a fantastic game idea...

The programming/graphics/bugs/stuff just sucked so much the first round of beta testers already ignored their NDA and started warning people not to ever play that game. Unfortunatly, months later on the next beta round nobody had listened to those gamers and the same warnings were all over the internet again.

They should've learned from GW/WoW and all other succesfull games; listen to your gamers, they are the largest QA-team you can get and will even pay you for doing it.

Jiao Yang

Lunar Rabbit

Join Date: Dec 2005

13 Nov 2008 at 20:21 - 19

He actually sold his shares in the company ages ago.. so he practically exited then. That's how he afforded the $20 million space flight.

HawkofStorms

Hall Hero

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/

13 Nov 2008 at 20:28 - 20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phaern Majes

Tabula Rasa was a neat idea but I think Mass Effect pulled it off much better (better graphics as well).

Agreed. Even though it isn't an MMO, another very well done space RPG coming out at the same time definately didn't help TR. That, and well, it sucked on its own accord.

And DarkNecrid, I disagree. I do not think that 5.69 million figure includes friends and buddy trials. If it DID, then the numbers would probablly be higher (because we KNOW at least 5 million copies of the game were sold). Your assumption would mean there would have to be less then 690,000 friend keys EVER and less then that many games purchased between whenever they hit 5 million (sometime before they made the annoucnement in feburary) and now. Considering how many gold spam selling bots used to use free trial keys and were banned, I definatley think that your assumption is wrong.

Really, I just can't believe how dumb your logic was when you said that 5.69 million HAS to include buddy keys since GW hasn't sold 6 million copies. That just doesn't even make sense. Last I checked, 5 < 5.69 < 6. That works.

karen the healer

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2007

Texas

Dancing On Graves

Mo/

13 Nov 2008 at 21:17 - 21

Its a shame Tabula Rasa is not doing so well. The dev team has made great strides in the game and the game has gotten so much better. I have been playing it off and on the last few months and I have really enjoyed it. I quit subscribing a few days back only because I will be playing some new games and the clan I was in had lost many of its members.

On another note I would like to ask if I remember this right. But did not Richard Garriott say some bad things about Guild Wars a few years back? I might be wrong, but seemed like he did not think much of the game.

Guild Wars is still my favorite game.

Paloma Song

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

[JM]

Rt/R

13 Nov 2008 at 21:31 - 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

He was fired. No one "exits" a business.

You don't fire someone like Richard Garriott; he fires you. The man uses money for toilet paper. People throw money at him to work on their projects. He wasn't just some throw-away studio scapegoat. Good grief.

His comments in the linked article make it pretty clear that he wanted to move onto something else, as as someone else above noted, he probably would have done that no matter how well TR did. Anyone who's been following TR since it was first announced knows how dramatically different the final game was from his first vision of it (pew pew androgynous anime fan-dancing sonic outerspace bards!) and it's the rare person who returns from a pioneering journey like a space flight without a life-changing impulse.

But I realize truth doesn't make for as interesting a thread.

Cobalt

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/W

13 Nov 2008 at 21:34 - 23

The MMOG market is a tough business due mostly to WOW's firm grip on the lion share of it. Even GW would have been no more than a blip on the radar had it been pay to play or had WOW been free to play.

isildorbiafra

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2007

The Netherlands

W/

13 Nov 2008 at 21:40 - 24

So what! Sales on subscription games drop....OMFG we are in a resession last time i checked. They could have better hired the staff at NcSoft to manage the financial crisis rather than the harvard chimps in suits that fu the world economy.

Oh and for those of you that didnt know....households go bust in situations like this. No! You cant renew your subscription to TR, GW, WHol! We need to make ends meet. So go to your room and do your homework! Slap!@#@!

Scythe O F Glory

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2008

New Jersey

League of Elite [LoE]

D/

13 Nov 2008 at 23:02 - 25

Profits plummeted because new people read these forums and decided not to buy GW.
Also cause of tabula rasa.

seut

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

Europa

22 Nov 2008 at 07:56 - 26

http://www.rgtr.com/news/latest_news...la_rasa_t.html
http://kotaku.com/5095941/tabula-ras...it-by-lay-offs

Quote:

Tabula Rasa Shutting Down, Team Hit by Lay Offs
By Brian Crecente, 11:30 AM on Fri Nov 21 2008, 8,265 views

With NCSoft slowing sinking, teams being laid off, Richard Garriott himself exiting the company, it should come as no surprise that another round of lay-offs have rippled through the company.

Sources tell us that today many of the Tabula Rasa team were let go. The plug has also been pulled on the game, according to both our sources and the official Tabula Rasa website:

To the Tabula Rasa Community,

Last November we launched what we hoped would be a ground breaking sci-fi MMO. In many ways, we think we've achieved that goal. Tabula Rasa has some unique features that make it fun and very different from every other MMO out there. Unfortunately, the fact is that the game hasn't performed as expected. The development team has worked hard to improve the game since launch, but the game never achieved the player population we hoped for.

So it is with regret that we must announce that Tabula Rasa will end live service on February 28, 2009.

Before we end the service, we'll make Tabula Rasa servers free to play starting on January 10, 2009.

We can assure you that through the next couple of months we'll be doing some really fun things in Tabula Rasa, and we plan to make staying on a little longer worth your while. For more details about what we are doing for Tabula Rasa players, please click here.

Stay tuned for more information. We thank you for your loyal support of the game and encourage you to take us up on the benefits we're offering Tabula Rasa players.

The Tabula Rasa Team

Our sources tell us that only a handful of people from the original Tabula Rasa team will be sticking around to maintain the game until it is shut down.

Update: NCsoft spokesman David Swofford confirmed to Kotaku that the game has been shut down and that there will be lay-offs.

"We’re going to be scaling down the TR team in preparation for the end of live service. But for now Brian, we currently don’t know how many people will be affected by that."

Horrible times. Horrible times.

aapo

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

22 Nov 2008 at 11:00 - 27

Quote:

Originally Posted by NassauBob

Exactly. I waited and waited for Tabula Rasa, only to blech upon seeing the $40-some-odd price tag, PLUS the monthly fee. The lack of a fee is what got me into Guild Wars in the first place (after the woeful Savage flopped).

- Yes. Why does it seem like every MMO software company thinks they can milk 15 bucks a month + game price for anything they release? When that price can get you game by the most successful company in market, why settle for anything less? There's more bad games full of grind, repetion, dullness and failed quality assurance than I can list. Not only that, but what happened to innovations that took computer gaming forward? It's truly a beautiful sight when the game is designed unrestricted by previous conceptions. Guild Wars' design still lugs experience points and character levels - elements of past RPG games - even though it has been ANET's ideal that such things shouldn't matter. Thus we have meaningless rewards for quest completion.

Numa Pompilius

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

At an Insit.. Intis... a house.

Live Forever Or Die Trying [GLHF]

W/Me

22 Nov 2008 at 11:06 - 28

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

The problem, as I've said before, with profitability in NCSoft's line is that they tend to be competing not just with WoW, but with themselves.

Hell yes. And IMO they're doing the same thing AGAIN with Aion.

Also: Yes of course he was fired/terminated. His project, which cost on the order of 100 million dollars, tanked. Badly.
I can see why they hired him in the first place, with the relative popularity of the various Ultimas and his perceived following of fans, but NCSoft would have to be mad to keep him on after Tabula Rasa crashed.

EDIT: And $40 + $15/month is proven to be acceptable for MMORPGs. That's not why TR failed. It failed because there were similar but cheaper or better alternatives, and because MMORPGs sell on their own success - the more successful a MMORPG is the more it sells, because it's all about socializing.

Abedeus

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jan 2007

Niflheim

R/

22 Nov 2008 at 11:09 - 29

At least subscribers got kewl refund.

3 months of CoH (awesome game), Lineage 2 (meh), Aion beta, Aion pre-order launch and 1 month of retail version along with digital download. Nice.

And if someone has subscription ending after February 28th, they'll get a refund.

Zorgy

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2007

Paris, France

[any]

W/Me

22 Nov 2008 at 11:22 - 30

Wrong place for this topic....Please move it to OFF-TOPIC!!!!!!!!!!!

tmr819

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

W/Mo

22 Nov 2008 at 11:52 - 31

If TR had been structured and presented as a "Guild Wars in space"-type game, i.e., (1) buy it once and play for free thereafter, (2) keep the persistent world, but (3) offer an AI assistance option to players for the instanced content, it would have stood a much better chance of success (or at least not tanking). Charging a hefty subscription is what killed TR.

MMO developers see those lucrative subs/bucks that Blizzard is raking in and they want a piece of that -- forgetting that WoW earned that money by offering a quality product that umpty-million players actually felt was *worth* the $15/month subscription fee. Other MMOs had better wise up and offer tiered subscriptions or alternative (and more reasonable) payment models (such as Guild Wars has done) if they want to be competitive, imo. In LotRO, for example, you pay $10/month (if you sub for 3 months), which is a far better deal (and for a better game, too

) than what TR had to offer. (LotRO is "tiding me over" at the moment until something better comes along.)

I would love to see TR reworked to be more like Guild Wars (or even offered as a single-player RPG). It seems a shame to lose all of that work, creature and world design, etc.

Darkobra

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Scotland

Type like an idiot, I'll treat you like an idiot

E/Me

23 Nov 2008 at 05:06 - 32

I'd be willing to bet that if they made it free to play, more people would be buying it and that would get more money flowing in. But greed blinds the weak.

maraxusofk

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

San Francisco, UC Berkeley

International District [id多], In Soviet Russia Altar Caps You [CCCP], LOL at [eF]

W/

23 Nov 2008 at 05:39 - 33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiao Yang

He actually sold his shares in the company ages ago.. so he practically exited then. That's how he afforded the $20 million space flight.

nice. he must be laughing his way to the bank.

Red Sonya

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2005

23 Nov 2008 at 09:08 - 34

The real problem with MMO's and MMORPG's is there is such a GLUT of them nowadays that many people have hard choices and don't know which one to play and most of them want to play with their friends as well. That's where WOW rules them all. It's been around a long time now and 11 million people subscribe to it. That's subscriptions folks not just sales. GW on the other had has had 5.69million SALES, but, hardly that many people PLAYING it still.

I do agree though the only way to compete with WOW is to make more no monthly fee games like GW in other genre's like Sci-Fi (starship troopers type). If you notice Anarchy Online is still going strong while offering no monthly fees to the origional and Notum wars expansion and only charging for the more recent expansions a monthly fee if players CHOOSE to play it.

Also those that do require payment if they aren't WOW need to lower their monthly fees. If I have to pay $15 a month I'm certainly going where the crowd is because that means more people to play with, more things maintain a value and more fun all around. They all are TIME CONSUMERS so it really doesn't matter the scene you choose as much as it matters the population you choose to play in and the phat loot and levels that are allowed in the game.

I believe the only game that will defeat/kill WOW will be a WOWlike NO MONTHLY FEE game with better graphics, lots of phat loot and UNLIMITED LEVELING or POWERSURGE. Games like GW will end because there's no material goals to go for. No Phat loot, no powergoals, nothing but relentless repetitiveness going for the SAME items/loot over and over with NO LEVEL ADVANCEMENT. WOW proves the majority of people like to see themselves grow and expand in the gaming community. The people like to be separated by power and material things as well as have fun together in battles and quests. So, all that's really needed for GW is to bring that SAME TYPE of GAMEPLAY from WOW WITHOUT any monthy fees.

I'm hoping GW2 will be along these lines. If they make weapons and armor have a limited combat value again GW2 will not be a WOW killer.

Numa Pompilius

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

At an Insit.. Intis... a house.

Live Forever Or Die Trying [GLHF]

W/Me

23 Nov 2008 at 09:42 - 35

You're advocating going head to head with WoW on WoW's home turf with only the advantage of lower monthly fee.

I'd say that's a fatal mistake, because, like WoW has proven, MMORPGs don't sell on quality or graphics or gameplay or low cost, they sell on socializing, the ability to mingle with RL friends and to make new friends, and in that regard WoW wins by default simply because it's so big.

One way to actually get an edge over WoW where it matters, and a feature I suspect whichever game eventually kills WoW will have, is to use a flat server model like Guild Wars does: it is entirely possible for a MMORPG to have more people online than there are on any individual WoW-server and hence offer as good or better socializing. In other words, to offer a single unified world instead of the fragmented server-wide worlds of WoW.
Yeah, sure, server bandwidth - but that's a technical issue, and technical issues can be solved.

It is probably also possible to perhaps not beat but at least carve a niche alongside WoW by catering to a different crowd. It is, for instance, very easy to provide much better graphics, physics, and game mechanics than WoW has, and that would attract hardcore gamers - a much smaller and more fickle market than the non-gamer market which is the base of WoW, but possibly sufficient to be profitable. Arguably this is what GW aimed for, and also arguably succeeded in doing.

Fril Estelin

So Serious...

Join Date: Jan 2007

London

Nerfs Are [WHAK]

E/

23 Nov 2008 at 10:44 - 36

Numa, you're right, except that WoW has much more than a socialising power, it now has a "society power" given how it's been quite deep into the fabrics of our societies. You see it on TV, politicians organise meetings in it, studies have shown that it actually improves the communication skills of children, etc.

No MMO can beat that, except maybe in countries like China, Korea, where there are other companies doing the same stuff. On the other hand, as Red Sonya suggests, never underestimate the power of addiction, social networking websites (e.g. facebook) and virtual worlds (MMOs, Second Life) are rapidly becoming the new "drugs"...

Regarding TR, it's really a shame but I did get the feeling it was a sort of "GW in space with a monthly fee". But Stargate may be his successor and it certainly builds on the big reputation of the TV show (something that MMO companies will have to do at one point to survive: blend into society, with TV shows, songs, etc.)

Alreya

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Nov 2008

23 Nov 2008 at 13:01 - 37

The real issue in the market for anyone other than Blizzard is how to participate in the MMO market given WoW's overwhelming position currently.

NC Soft has taken the approach of trying to nibble around the edges .. make games that are in some ways different from WoW, while being similar in core ways. Examples are AA and TR. GW is also an example. One of these succeeded whereas the other two failed. Notably, the one that succeeded is the one without a subscription fee.

Games that charge a fee are having a hard time because WoW owns that space to an almost total degree. In part that has to do with socialization, in part it has to do with the reach of the game (everyone from 12 to 85 seems to play it), in part it has to do with the fact that now most players have level capped characters and don't want to "do it all over again" in another level-based game, and in part it has to do with the fact that noone else in the market can create a game out of the box that is as polished or has as much content as WoW does. WoW has basically taken the air almost completely out of the subscription MMORPG market, really. It *is* that market, more or less. Every game that tries to compete head on with it ends with very mixed results because it's pretty much impossible to compete against it effectively.

What that leaves are openings in the market for (1) well made, western-oriented, free to play games like GW or hopefully GW2 and (2) well-done but lower budgeted "niche" games that aim to have 100-200k subs max, and are not designed like WoW or aiming to take many of WoW's core gamers. But trying to compete against WoW in its own space (subscription based, leveling based game) is going to yield poor results for the most part. WoW owns that market.

Striken7

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2007

The District Nudists

R/

23 Nov 2008 at 18:05 - 38

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Really, I just can't believe how dumb your logic was when you said that 5.69 million HAS to include buddy keys since GW hasn't sold 6 million copies. That just doesn't even make sense. Last I checked, 5 < 5.69 < 6. That works.

Wow, can you really not tell the difference between copies sold and accounts created?

Guild Wars has sold less 6 million copies. We know most of those copies are bought by people who already have an account. That means based on copies sold alone, there are probably only between 2-4 million unique accounts (compared to WoW's 11 million unique accounts that each pay a monthly fee).

And yet they are reporting 5.59 million accounts created. If this didn't include buddy keys and free trials, it would mean every single copy sold was used to create a brand new account... Did you make a new account every time you bought a new chapter?

Red Sonya

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2005

23 Nov 2008 at 19:45 - 39

Yep Striken is right it's not taking into account many of us have bought all 3 chapters and the expansion which is 4 sales from ONE person such as myself. So, my thinking is GW's barely has a little over 1-1/2 million initial customers and only half of those are still playing as many have left for other games now. Whereas a game like Diablo 2 + expansion had over 5 millions SALES and 2/3rds CUSTOMERS because it was only ONE chapter and ONE expansion. So really D2 had a larger CUSTOMER base than GW has had. I had some numbers up on this awhile back and it was 4 millions sales of D2 and 1 millions sales of the Expansion. Now if you take into account all the sales of the origional Diablo and it's expansion and D2 and it's expansion you have around 8 million copies sold of that series. Thus even the Diablo series has proven better than GW.

Found the numbers:

Quote:

Guild Wars (5 million in North America, Europe, and Asia; includes Factions, Nightfall, and Eye of the North)[207]
Counter-Strike (4.2 million,[20] may include Xbox version)
Cossacks: European Wars (4 million)[208]
Diablo II (4 million)[209]
Diablo II: Lord of Destruction [expansion pack] (1 million;[209] 2 million shipped)[209]

Notice GW needed 3 chapters and 1 expansion plus all the pvp paks etc to reach those numbers.

Also to D2's credit:

Quote:

ScapesWednesday, June 21, 2006, 05:27 PM
Diablo II was awarded a spot in the Guinness Book of World Records "2000 Edition" for being the fastest-selling computer game ever sold, with more than 1 million units sold in the first two weeks of availability
And then Blizzard deleted hundreds of thousands of Battle.net accounts over the course of the game's life.
-- Scaper-X

Winterclaw

Wark!!!

Join Date: May 2005

Florida

W/

23 Nov 2008 at 20:05 - 40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alreya

The real issue in the market for anyone other than Blizzard is how to participate in the MMO market given WoW's overwhelming position currently.

When you can't beat them fair and square, beat them in court: sue blizzard for being a monopoly and break them up.