fixing PvX discordway

With 6 Discords you are already pumped up in the damage department, I would rather work on my defensive capabilities with those skill slots than to waste them on extra DNs. Not having enough damage should be the least your worries with 6 discords. Surviving in a tough area when your minions are all dead would be more useful. Well, I don't know about you but 1 extra death nova makes enemies drop quicker, which results in a better defense. The best defense is a strong offense. If I can kill even 1 extra monster (generally it's more like 2-4 extra monsters) quicker with 1 extra death nova, then that means there are less monsters able to attack or cast harmful spells. If more than 1 death nova is not your cup of tea don't run it, but in the areas where I have run it it was a lot more effective in providing extra damage and a stronger defense through quicker kills. It did more for my party than a hex remover or a heal would have done in the same spot.

Minions don't remove hexes, but they absorb hexes just like damage. In pve, a minion wall is best at taking aoe hexes and spells away from party members. I would rather have a single minion spell in slot over a single hex remover as long as I can actually use it.

A minion has the potential to prevent/ absorb hundreds of damage and multiple hexes and spells. A hex remover has the potential to remove x amount of super harmful hexes and may have a slight heal. However heroes can't use hex removers worth a damn, so they usually end up spamming it on any hex you receive.

This is all personal preference, so if you share my preference then feel free to use my ideas. If you don't, then don't use them. I don't want to defend my choices any more, I just stated my opinions as to my ways of using the skills and if you don't agree that's fine.

I just want to keep this thread clear of arguments and on track by giving people multiple ways of using their discords.

I have a friend who says the same thing. I cant seem to remember his name....
Oh yeah his name is LEEEEROOOY JENKINS

In my experience, minions do more melee blocking than spell absorbing. Simply because minions don't initiate aggro. You do. The first person that spell casters usually lock on to is whoever catches their attention first. In fact, minions usually don't even move in front of the minion master until after a few seconds. Its a good theory to say that minions absorb the majority of hexes or spells, Or at least it would be a good theory if you didn't have common sense to get in your way. Leeroy jenkins remark has nothing to do with that, so thanks for making absolutely no sense and having no effective counter as to why you disagreed with me

If you could instant kill a whole mob you'd never need a healer. The faster you kill the less healing you'll need is generally a true fact. The stronger and quicker the damage, the less damage you'll end up taking.

Your experience with minions getting stuck on melee is because your most likely only running 2-3 minion spells correct? My guess would be 1 bone minions and shambling horror on your bomber (with death nova on a different character) and then 1 shambling horror by itself?

With me, I have 4 different characters with their own minions. That means when melee rushes into range, usually the 4-6 shamblings/jaggeds from my 2 cursers go block them, then the 12-16+ bone minions each aggro seperately which results in casters and melee being death nova'd and attacked. So I guess that's another advantage about having more than 2 characters with minions, they don't all clump up and focus on melee only at least when I ran around vanquishing all the kurzick areas I noticed that they didn't clump up like that.

So, what I wrote worked for me, but if it doesn't work for you when you run less minions and 1 death nova, then please try not to state how it fails or doesn't work because that would be dependant on the build your running and doesn't pertain to using more minions and an extra death nova.

I do understand we initiate aggro, but were also knocking down enemies (with an ap nuker) and resulting in interrupts and summoning vanguard sins (again a generic pve skill for most discordways) which results in another "minion" who's attacking and taking away monsters attention.)

If you truly need hex removers with the exception of very difficult hex areas (such as fow) then I would suggest trying to find another way to keep you alive without relying on dumb hero ai in prioritizing hex removal. Because they are never reliable, unless you plan to micro every single hex remover you bring.

Leeroy jenkins remark has nothing to do with that, so thanks for making absolutely no sense and having no effective counter as to why you disagreed with me

If you could instant kill a whole mob you'd never need a healer. The faster you kill the less healing you'll need is generally a true fact. The stronger and quicker the damage, the less damage you'll end up taking. Relax Guy. I was just having fun with that cliched line of "The best defense is a good offense" and it made me think of the fact that it is the kind of thing a mending wammo would use to defend his [frenzy][healing signet] after being called a noob.

At least you have a firm grasp of the obvious, because it it true. "If you could instant kill a whole mob you would never need a healer." You also wouldn't have a game.

And still the fact remains that casters usually target the players while minions block the melee. You could have 8 minion masters with 80 minions and they would still sit behind the party for few seconds until melee reached their range while the casters are sending spells your way.

Im not arguing with the fact that minions probably absorb a couple spells and a couple hexes, but not near enough to call them a viable sponge for spells.

Relax Guy. I was just having fun with that cliched line of "The best defense is a good offense" and it made me think of the fact that it is the kind of thing a mending wammo would use to defend his [frenzy][healing signet] after being called a noob. GG Trolling.

Daze is right though, one extra death nova wont do a thing, having a single copy is enough too keep your minions esploding.

Also melee is much more sensitive to armor and health, so yeah it gets stuck on minions and spirits all the time, much more often than casters do. Although minion wall is still effective against aoe combined with dwayna's sorrow.

This is the one I made a few days ago.

[build=OAhjUwGYoSxMVBKgNbTOUbDTVVA] 16 Death, 9 Soul, 10 Rest

[build=OAhkUsG5BFqTMjdaHa2Tux5wUAA] 13 Death, 10 Soul, 10 Rest, 4 Curses

[build=OANDUslfSxMVBHVKgoBBE1DVVA] 16 Death, 10 Soul, 9 Prot too much healing imo. i'd drop the resto skills off the second guy and add things like [weaken armor][reckless haste][mark of pain].

also, one copy of [putrid bile] is enough i think.

Mmm, none of these ideas are good tbh. MoP- long recharge, Reckless - SoF is better for d-way, weaken armor - what for your damage ignores armor and no one putrid bile is not enough. Long recharge isn't really an issue for MoP when the idea is for him to be spamming [discord]. The rest are there as AoE cover hexes that still have some use. [Mark of pain] is there for scattering mobs; [weaken armor] is there because I usually have [ebon vanguard assassin support] on my bar, [reckless haste] is there to take some pressure off healers. All of it's secondary but it keeps condition/hex removers busy. he already had enfeebling-- which is the only really necessary curse aoe condition dealer imo-- but at 4 spec. Doesn't feel like enough to me.

Actually, Igor, I wouldn't say EVAS is crap but only because with Assassin's Promise, you can recharge it rather quickly and have multiple assassins out (I've had about four out at once as my record). Four Assassins can pile up damage on your non-targetted foes. However, in place of EVAS, there are better PvE skills to use. Where did I say that its crap without assassins promise? o___O

I said that it is generally crap because in most cases they switch targets after using one of their skills so you end up with random single target damage which kinda sucks. :P