Revising The Kurzick/Luxon Faction System.

A comprehensive list of suggestions that would make the faction system better. (Side note: Although it's six suggestions they are all central to one Idea)

First: Kurzick and Luxon faction points should not be mutually exclusive.

I should be able to accumulate faction for both sides and spend it for both sides and get titles for both sides without losing faction for the opposite side every time I spend faction.

Suggestion: Spending faction for one side should not subtract faction for the other side.

Second: The amount of faction you have should not determine which faction you are for.

I'm tired of not being able to use npc's in half of factions because I have more faction of one sides than the others. Especially when npc's recognize me as a member of the opposite faction when I am in an alliance/guild of the npc's corresponding faction. Especially with the new increased faction limits, you either have to have 0 faction on both sides or have both faction caps equal and maxed to be neutral.

Suggestion: You should be identified as a member of a faction only by which alliance/guild you are a member of. Not by how much faction you have for either side.

Third: Mission books should give much more faction as a turn in reward.

The max Kurzick or Luxon title is 10,000,000 points. A title so high cannot be done just through regular gameplay. It is a grinding title. And, now that faction farming has been removed for kurzicks (and luxons have always been disadvantaged) it makes it even moreso a grinding title. Even with the highest turn in reward 120,000 faction points for a full hard mode book. You would need 83 and a 3rd books to get the full title.

Suggestion: More points for full books turned in.

Fourth: You should be able to repeat missions for faction rewards.

They added rewards of 1000 faction for completing some of the Kurzick and Luxon missions but, made the mistake of making this reward non repeatable.
Especially since the addition of books is going to allow people to do the same missions over and over to fill books for faction reward it is clear that the missions faction rewards should be repeatably given.

Suggestion: Make missions give repeatable faction rewards.

Fifth: More faction points for a completed vanquish.

After the new update you gain 50 points per kill for a completed vanquish.
There are 7 Kurzick and 7 Luxon zones(I'm not sure what unwaking waters counts as) with an average yield of 20,000 points for a completed vanquish.
This means you would have to vanquish 250 zones to gain the full title. Highly impractical and grinding to say the least.

Suggestion: Give more faction points upon completing a vanquish.

Sixth: Zones shouldn't count as inherently Kurzick or Luxon.

The alliance battle line is one of the major features of factions and as such the control of Echovald Forest and Jade Sea zones fluctuates between Kurzicks and Luxons. However the Echovald Forest and the Jade Sea currently are inherently identified as Kurzick and Luxon respectively and without recognition of who is currently controlling the zones. As such you can be in an Echovald Forest zone that is under luxon control and vanquish the entire area under a luxon priests luxon blessing gaining luxon points and gain Kurzick faction upon completion of the zone because the Echovald forest is inherently Kurzick and ignores who is currently under control of the zone when it gives you the vanquish completion bonus.(and vice versa for the Jade Sea under Kurzick control). The labeling of zones as kurzick and luxon without acknowledging who is actually in control of the zones defeats the entire purpose of the alliance battle system. In turn the possibility of giving you both luxon and kurzick faction at the same time does not make sense. A zone should be labeled as Kurzick or Luxon by which corresponding faction is currently controlling the zone and the end reward upon completion of the vanquish should be in concurrence with whichever faction is in control of the zone.

Suggestions: Don't Label Echovald forest as Kurzick and Jade Sea as Luxon. Allow for them to be counted as either or else what would be the point of the fluctuating faction line; and give the vanquish completion faction bonus based on whether the character is under a Luxon or Kurzick Blessing.

Thanks to anybody who reads this over and who can add any other suggestions to making the faction system better than it currently is.

First: it should definitely be mutually exclusive. Guild Wars is not a spy game where you play a double agent. Either you're helping the Kurzicks or you're helping the Luxons. Not both.

Second: wrong again. I'm in a Kurzick guild but clearly if I have 20,000 Luxon faction I'm on the Luxons' side. I don't want my guild choosing who I can and cannot talk to, I want control of that myself.

Third: can't argue against that. I expected a lot more, especially when you consider that a HM Hero's Handbook gives you 18.75% of a full title for the same number of missions, 11 (5 of the 16 in a Hero's Handbook are automatically there, plus Minister Cho's and Zen Daijun are left out of the Shiro's Return). At the same time though there's four different reputations, so therefore I would expect no less than 18.75%/4 of a title from a full book - roughly 470,000 faction.

Fourth: don't think it's necessary but wouldn't complain if it was added.

Fifth: I'd have to do the math to compare EotN vanquishing to HM books which tbh I can't be arsed to do. You're probably right. Unwaking Waters is Luxon.

Sixth: Can't really argue it either, but I have known people who get both the Kurzick and Luxon blessing while vanquishing for +50 health and +6 regen. What then?

All in all I approve.

Kurzicks and Luxons are warring factions. It makes sense lore-wise to be mutually exclusive (in terms of turning in points).

If you are a mercenary in a war, you help "Side A", you become the enemy of "Side B". You then go to work for "Side B", "Side A" would consider you an enemy. Don't change this.

Same as above really. If you help the enemy of "Side A," you are a part of "Side B." You help out "Side A more, you are a part of "Side A."

I think it should be first NM/HM book turned in gives double Faction (not double gold or double experience). This I have nothing against.

No. Just No. I don't want to see "Running Boreas Seabed/Ghayla Hatchery for 5k - Masters, get 3k Luxon!" or anything like that. So no. People would just do the easy missions again and again, then call it grind because "Anet forces us to do the same mission."

Nothing against this, but I think it is fine as is.

Nothing against this, but, how does one tell if an area is Kurzick or Luxon when the line goes right through the middle? By the bounty you have? But what if you get both bounties for the extra health? By which faction you have more of?

It's just too many variables imo for that.

Overall, the Kurzick/Luxon title are meant to have a little difficulty. And your proposistions mainly go against the warring factions idea.

If you actually enjoyed stuff like AB, then it wouldn't be a grinding title.

for the sake of arguement and for prestige purposes, eotn titles aren't account-wide like kurzick/luxon titles.

A very fair argument. Either way it should be more, even if it was like 200,000.

grinding implies a pain in the bum, so, have fun playing GW and nothing is a grind

1 and 2 are both lore-based constants. That's not about to change.

3 and 5 would be okay, but there's really nothing wrong with how they are now.

I see nothing wrong with implementing 4, because the rewards are pitiful and they're hardly runable.

6 has the issue of tapping into both blessings, so some sort of workaround needs to be implemented. Possibly it could select the first of the blessings that you bought.

Sorry but 6 won't be implemented. You know how much coding it would take to work that out not to mention the skill required to do it. Gw2 will be out before the 1 person on gw's 1 could finish it. Even if it is my beloved Lindsey.

I agree with Shayne 1 and 2 won't change.

I agree with 3. It is way to little for me to want to do that over repeated vanquish or the now so famous amatz farm.

4 needs to be like eotn dungeons. Give a repeatable reward but extremely reduce it.

I don't like 5. Increased the reward just because there are only a few zones on each side. What would be an ok amount then? Only having to do 10 zones to be done the title... Vanquishes already gives plenty of faction.

There are enough different ways to get faction now that you can do a little of each instead of grinding it one way. If you so choose to grind it one way or another so be it. Do a little ab a little vanquish and just simply play through the game.

This title has been reworked twice now stop trying to make it easier. It was an easy title before you got double the amount to title for skills and donating. It was an even easier title after that. Now it is dribble to finish this title. Sorry

Edit: FYI the amatz farm give far more faction per hour then the kurz fff.

I agree with Songbringer for the most part. Too many people focus on "You have to do this one thing xx number of times to max the title" conceniently forgetting all the other ways to gain faction over the account (not just the char as eotn).

Its perfectly easy the way it is so /notsigned.

First : lore-wise they are at war.
Second : yes it should. What if I'm a Kurzick and I want to buy the 15k luxon ? I quit my alliance ?
Third - fifth : yeah it's a lot of grind... it would be better if it gave you more faction. But don't forget that it is an account wide title.
Sixth : hmm it seems logical.

WHAT?!?
It's a PvE title - so PvP options are merely a bonus in advancing it. Even so - FA is UTTERLY broken. That thing needs to be fixed before it can even be considered an option. The other two seem slightly better - but considering the randomness of the parties there - success boils down to luck. And that doesn't work for a PvE title.
As for PvE options - you have missions and vanquishing. The game is completely static and because of the introduction of HoM it favors the use of ONE character. Which means there is no reason whatsoever to go back and do some action multiple times because the environment NEVER changes and it doesn't make sense to bring multiple characters through the story - since that has no benefit in HoM.
If one PLAYS the game - the title isn't fast. And it's also not fast enough compared to other comparable options (other titles that give you access to PvE skills).


Stop treating the Allegiance title as a PvP title. The guys attached PvE skills onto it - so it doesn't make sense that the title continues to have the properties of PvP titles of being near impossible to max.


Regarding the OP:
I thought that the faction rewards during the double vanquishing weekend were superb. Bring them to that level and we have a very nice step into the right direction!

You need to have more kurzick points. You can be in a Kurzick Alliance, you can have 0 Kurzick Points and 1 Luxon Point, and you will be able to buy 15k Luxon...

ONTopic: /Notsigned, I find it fine as it is... Maybe is just me O_O

About the lore, shouldn't they both treat us like heroes after saving all of Cantha from Shiro?
On the other hand, we DO fight the other side in FA, JQ, AB and some quests...

Just thought it should be mentioned

there's a difference between difficulty and pure grind

There have been a lot of changes.

You can now get more than 25,000 points in a single Vanquish. That's fine with me, when I suggested getting points from vanquising, I suggested something like 5k in NM and 10K in HM.

So you can see that I'm rejoiced now.

It's fine as it is, and even if Luxons can take control over Kurzick outposts and put their priests there, NPCs that give quests in those areas are still Kurzick.

I would like to point out to the lore protagonists that by the time I have completed Unwaking Water's the Luxon's and Kurzick's are now allies against a common foe Shiro. The fact that it gets suggested they are sworn enemies is a specious argument. I would like to spend my Kurzick without loss of any Luxon I gained in normal game play. I am happy that the 7 vanquish areas on either side give Luxon or Kurzick, but the blessing from the Priest could mean I gain mixed faction and this should not be unnecessarily punished as it currently is. I have no problem with the traders and such refusing to talk to you if they consider you to be untrue to their faction, that is a flavour of the game I can quite live with. It would have been nice if they had doubled the boss bonuses but they tried to make it give the same kind of rewards that hFFF was giving.

I think whatever blessing your under the vanquish should award that faction to you. That would be easy to code?

I'd like to see it not drop one if spend the other... so people can work on 2 titles at once.. and a vanq in a double blessing area then allows to reap the benefits of both? Kurz and Lux bonus for finishing?

I just signed on to say qft, the title is better now I dont feel at all compelled to do hfff to have any chance of maxing this title (yeah I know, im not qq and know i dont have to do it before all the +1ers see that)

The title is still god damn monsterous being 10kkk points. Up the ante for rewards pl0x. The above quote says it all

Lore-wise the war ends when both factions coalesce to fight Shiro.


Meh, the only thing I want is the ability to AB for both sides and donate faction to both sides without having to renew guesting every 8 hours. Or perhaps have a permanent guest function.

I really don't think it is beneficial to this game if one has to consider Luxon/Kurzick alignment when considering guilds.

Maybe there coudld be a 'rewards' NPC for the Imperial faction. That would spread the rewards you give between the two titles.

Give 5K, and you get 2,5k in each side.

WRONG! After Shiro's defeat (both times in Factions) they go right back to fighting. There is a short time of peace, but the war starts back up (due to NPC dialogue in the Divine Path, it suggests Luxons bring it back).

The Eye of the North Manual states that the two factions are still warring. And the Movement of the World states when the fighting (finally) ends.