I'm quite amazed with the lack of Skill, players have for Guildwars now a days. I remember years ago when people were actually decent at RA or TA.
Today unfortunately you see terrible Builds and Player Skill in Low-End PvP Areas such as TA, RA, AB Etc. Its even started to spread its roots in HA.
I've seen crap Builds and player Tactics. Mesmers running WoH, Warriors running Dagger skills visa versa, Monks NEVER Kitting, Warriors with Hexes, Monks running hammers etc etc, you all probably have seen it.
Honestly, what has happened to the Player Skill in Guildwars? It gets worse everyday.
(I fear for the day when I see people start to run the Hamstorm Build off of the First GW Box :P lol)
Why has Player Skill dropped Significantly?
Nightmare_Pwn
lutz
It hasn't. Expectations have just grown.
Nightmare_Pwn
haha doubt it. At least not where I have been playing the last 6 months
lutz
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Originally Posted by Nightmare_Pwn
haha doubt it. At least not where I have been playing the last 6 months
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And for warriors with hexes, we beat top 20 guilds with our warrior running a hex. (and we are a real guild)
Monks running hammers is amazing, by the way, and I run WoH on my mesmer :>
Avarre
Player skill has increased as the game becomes more mapped out and more understood.
Expectations, however, have increased at the same pace. There's also less difference in overall player ability - with the game fully understood, there's less space for 'superstar' players, and as a result it appears the whole playerbase is mediocre.
Same in PvE and PvP, really.
However PvE-wise, the game has also gotten simpler, so there's less requirement for good play to succeed. Hence, there are more high-profile players who really aren't that good, making the overall playerbase look worse. I suppose the same applies to PvP, as well.
Expectations, however, have increased at the same pace. There's also less difference in overall player ability - with the game fully understood, there's less space for 'superstar' players, and as a result it appears the whole playerbase is mediocre.
Same in PvE and PvP, really.
However PvE-wise, the game has also gotten simpler, so there's less requirement for good play to succeed. Hence, there are more high-profile players who really aren't that good, making the overall playerbase look worse. I suppose the same applies to PvP, as well.
snaek
it hasnt
-___-'
-___-'
Luminarus
Theres also the fact that people are bored and as such will run a retarded build for laughs
Apollo Smile
Actually, if anything I have noticed some of my PUGs being better as of late. Probably, due to more experienced players doing the missions for book entries.
Rosie Woogs
I would hazard a guess that a lot of people have finished up a lot of their PvE titles, and now are are going for their PvP titles. Tolerance is probably the word here....we were all new at PvP at some point, and you only learn by experience and experimentation.
pumpkin pie
I don't know about you,
To me, I was the necromancer who does not raise minions, I was a Warrior Necromancer with a Stone Summit Axe of Fortitute and a Stone Summit Shiled, who constantly wander why my max dmg axe does so little damage. I was the necromancer who joined a sorrow furnace 4 men run only to pissed off the other 3 because I did not know what echo SS was which off course I say yes I am SS Necro to :P~
But now, I can give new players advise that I did not get back when I was a noob. So to answer your question: because You have become better! and are able to see the faults new players are making, as we all did once.
To me, I was the necromancer who does not raise minions, I was a Warrior Necromancer with a Stone Summit Axe of Fortitute and a Stone Summit Shiled, who constantly wander why my max dmg axe does so little damage. I was the necromancer who joined a sorrow furnace 4 men run only to pissed off the other 3 because I did not know what echo SS was which off course I say yes I am SS Necro to :P~
But now, I can give new players advise that I did not get back when I was a noob. So to answer your question: because You have become better! and are able to see the faults new players are making, as we all did once.
Hell Raiser
I would definitely agree with it being rising expectations. As the game gets older and more people learn simple mechanics, new players get further and further away from the current standards. Also I would say the typical response to "noob" players is something along the lines of "gtfo joo nublet" or maybe "l2pGW noob" or even "fail nub is fail". If more people said "Hey, so and so, that build is not very good because...", we'd most likely have less bad players. But if they ignore you and say "don't be stupid noobie, mending is teh bombz", then you know they are arrogant bastards and you should speak your mind 
Also you could argue the huge amount of (more) skills has increased a new player's chances at picking a horrible build/combination.
Also you could argue the huge amount of (more) skills has increased a new player's chances at picking a horrible build/combination.
Kyp Jade
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Originally Posted by lutz
It hasn't. Expectations have just grown.
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Konig Des Todes
Quote:
| Why has Player Skill dropped Significantly? |
And I think rising expectations too. When people PuG, they expect a group as organized and good as a guild/alliance/friend balanced group.
Gift3d
i'll talk mostly ra here because there you can't choose the people you play with to determine if they're clueless or not, and get matched up with filthy newbs against your will constantly.
guild wars is now a very very very simplified game. majority of players lack talent, obviously, and are used to games like warcraft where it's mash buttons and win. sadly, with a crap ton of easy to play, majority builds, this is exactly what the game has become. i'm gonna say half of the builds on pvxwiki i bet are mindless button mashing 1234567 and sometimes 8.
deadly arts sins, literally, 1234567. rinse and repeat.
rangers, load up minimum of 4 interrupts and spam the living shit out of them and pray you hit something good.
monks with word of healing, veil, and 6 stances. enough said.
the list goes on and on
players think "if i play this build i will prwnz" and are completely oblivious to anything else.
and then there are people who make builds specifically to counter those builds. this is where all originality and ingenuity goes *poof* and it just becomes Build Wars.
guild wars is now a very very very simplified game. majority of players lack talent, obviously, and are used to games like warcraft where it's mash buttons and win. sadly, with a crap ton of easy to play, majority builds, this is exactly what the game has become. i'm gonna say half of the builds on pvxwiki i bet are mindless button mashing 1234567 and sometimes 8.
deadly arts sins, literally, 1234567. rinse and repeat.
rangers, load up minimum of 4 interrupts and spam the living shit out of them and pray you hit something good.
monks with word of healing, veil, and 6 stances. enough said.
the list goes on and on
players think "if i play this build i will prwnz" and are completely oblivious to anything else.
and then there are people who make builds specifically to counter those builds. this is where all originality and ingenuity goes *poof* and it just becomes Build Wars.
SurareVaera
Because GW is a game, and people play games to have fun.
[Water Trident][Dismember][Executioner's Strike][Disrupting Chop][Frenzy][Rush][Conjure Frost][Resurrection Signet]
[Patient Spirit][Guardian][Word of Healing][Draw Conditions][Distracting Shot][Holy Veil][Optional][Antidote Signet]
The expectations in RA for monks are pretty high - every match is "wtf, why does our monk have a bow?" Yet it's the only fun and interesting way to monk with VoR scrubs, E/A shadow walk meteor eles, or assassicaster trains plaguing RA. Also, antidote sig > daze.
[Water Trident][Dismember][Executioner's Strike][Disrupting Chop][Frenzy][Rush][Conjure Frost][Resurrection Signet]
[Patient Spirit][Guardian][Word of Healing][Draw Conditions][Distracting Shot][Holy Veil][Optional][Antidote Signet]
The expectations in RA for monks are pretty high - every match is "wtf, why does our monk have a bow?" Yet it's the only fun and interesting way to monk with VoR scrubs, E/A shadow walk meteor eles, or assassicaster trains plaguing RA. Also, antidote sig > daze.
Chocobo1
No he's right, it really is amazing how bad people are. It's not even the new players. I got a 38 month old warrior telling me that I should run healing breeze and defy pain. Been in RA all day today and people are still using mending warriors and hitting through empathy etc. If you try help them at all they just go nuts and tell you how much you suck and it was your fault they lost. I have come to a conclusion.
There is no new players, It is old players that just continue to suck.
They refuse to get better or take any advice. Garr
I don't care if they directly copy paste of wiki, I'm so tired of just seeing the failure I see everyday.
/Rant ;_;
There is no new players, It is old players that just continue to suck.
They refuse to get better or take any advice. Garr
I don't care if they directly copy paste of wiki, I'm so tired of just seeing the failure I see everyday./Rant ;_;
cosyfiep
well in pve its because of heroes....it doesnt really take skill to play with 3 heroes and 4 henchies....c space, and with all the mindless grinding,---what skill do you need??
but also as has been said, lots of people are working on different titles, and veteran players arent as patient with newbies (or people trying out strange builds...).
happens.
but also as has been said, lots of people are working on different titles, and veteran players arent as patient with newbies (or people trying out strange builds...).
happens.
maraxusofk
i was going to say that since the skills themselves have seen power creep since nf, the players themselves can suck more since the OP skills make up for it, which was something u couldnt do for the most part back in prophecies and factions.
Rak Orgon of Beowulf
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Originally Posted by Gift3d
monks with word of healing, veil, and 6 stances. enough said.
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I agree with the fact that everyone just keeps raising their expectations
Rothan Celt
Because ppl help other ppl with the game and those ppl do not have the experience of learning for themselves. Ive seen many cases of this.
But theres always been idiots in pvp.....always.
But theres always been idiots in pvp.....always.
Knight O Cydonia
Ah, don't tell me your monks have never whipped out a hammer to beat on the Guild Lord? My guildies personal fave is the Colossal Pick 
It's just a sign of the times. Back when I first got into PvP the ladder started at ~1030 rating, and now a guild can get on the ladder by having a W0 L1 record. Crazy days.
It's just a sign of the times. Back when I first got into PvP the ladder started at ~1030 rating, and now a guild can get on the ladder by having a W0 L1 record. Crazy days.
Red Sonya
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nightmare_Pwn
I'm quite amazed with the lack of Skill, players have for Guildwars now a days. I remember years ago when people were actually decent at RA or TA.
Today unfortunately you see terrible Builds and Player Skill in Low-End PvP Areas such as TA, RA, AB Etc. Its even started to spread its roots in HA. I've seen crap Builds and player Tactics. Mesmers running WoH, Warriors running Dagger skills visa versa, Monks NEVER Kitting, Warriors with Hexes, Monks running hammers etc etc, you all probably have seen it. Honestly, what has happened to the Player Skill in Guildwars? It gets worse everyday. (I fear for the day when I see people start to run the Hamstorm Build off of the First GW Box :P lol) |
Even at the competitive levels of PVP such as RA, AB, FA and QA where things are RANDOM POTLUCK groupings that is exactly what they are intended for, not to be setup as YOU would impose or using your WIKI builds or COOKIE CUTTER builds. I personally am one of those that will take ANY build I so choose into those arenas and have a ball playing with them.
If I were competing now for $100,000 like the GVG tournaments THEN and ONLY THEN would I really care about creating the BEST build I could. Thankfully the majority of Guild Wars is not setup with that sort of competition or monetary value, thus, anyone and everyone is ENTITLED to create ANY type of build they want and others that play with them will just have to accept it orrrrrr they can QUIT PLAYING THEMSELVES.
Something else others must remember is "I" play the game for MY ENTERTAINMENT not to entertain others. There are no rules in the EULA that says we must create a build others want me to play or build. lol That would be silly because no one would honor it anyways.
And then there is this line from those elitist types:
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There is no new players, It is old players that just continue to suck. |
DarkGanni
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Originally Posted by Thread Title
Why has Player Skill dropped Significantly?
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Shasgaliel
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Originally Posted by Red Sonya
stuff
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the_jos
It didn't, it's just that some overpowered builds got more players in 'high-end' who perhaps should not be there.
I'm still amazed that many of the so-called high end PvE guilds recruit players that are simply unable to complete an area without using gimmic builds.
The moment such a build gets nerfed and there is complaint all over.
Anyway, Lutz is right, it's about expectation, not about player skill
I'm still amazed that many of the so-called high end PvE guilds recruit players that are simply unable to complete an area without using gimmic builds.
The moment such a build gets nerfed and there is complaint all over.
Anyway, Lutz is right, it's about expectation, not about player skill
Anon-e-mouse
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Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin
Ursan. Button smashing for a time=dumbing skills.
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Stolen Souls
I think the overall "player skill" is about the same as it was almost three years ago, when I started playing. I agree with the person that said you notice it more because you got better, yourself. imo, odds are:
-The are using crap builds because they are getting bored/are doing it for kicks.
-They are new players.
-They are the SAME bad players, that refuse to take advice and improve themselves.
As for that "ROLEPLAYING" stuff...if they want to do that, let them do it by themselves, or with friends. Not in PvP areas (I assume you read the first post, and know this is about PvP areas?) where it makes a difference to the rest of your team, who likely wants to win, lol.
-The are using crap builds because they are getting bored/are doing it for kicks.
-They are new players.
-They are the SAME bad players, that refuse to take advice and improve themselves.
As for that "ROLEPLAYING" stuff...if they want to do that, let them do it by themselves, or with friends. Not in PvP areas (I assume you read the first post, and know this is about PvP areas?) where it makes a difference to the rest of your team, who likely wants to win, lol.
persuadu
The answer to me is obvious.
They Nerfed all the easy pve skills that all the pve's QQ'ed about so now the pve folks cant pug and became bored with it. So a lot less people are doing pve and districts are empty for pugs so what do they do?
HEY! Lets give that pvp thing a try! GG to all you QQers who berated the devs to change all the "overpowered" pve skills. Now the pugs are looking for a place to play and guess what? Its your precious PvP areas they are migrating to.
You forced them out of their fun zone so now they are looking for somewhere else to go suck, and yup, its RA! Dont need to LFG there do ya?
Maybe now you will cry for them to bring ursan back so they can go back to DOA and UW and leave PvP alone. Or if you want an influx of better players, have them nerf SF so they will stop doing Speed Clears of UW in 18 minutes. Then at least those good players will migrage to PvP.
You whined about all these pve skills and now they are nerfed and now those players you hated have moved into your back yard. Nice Work!
They Nerfed all the easy pve skills that all the pve's QQ'ed about so now the pve folks cant pug and became bored with it. So a lot less people are doing pve and districts are empty for pugs so what do they do?
HEY! Lets give that pvp thing a try! GG to all you QQers who berated the devs to change all the "overpowered" pve skills. Now the pugs are looking for a place to play and guess what? Its your precious PvP areas they are migrating to.
You forced them out of their fun zone so now they are looking for somewhere else to go suck, and yup, its RA! Dont need to LFG there do ya?
Maybe now you will cry for them to bring ursan back so they can go back to DOA and UW and leave PvP alone. Or if you want an influx of better players, have them nerf SF so they will stop doing Speed Clears of UW in 18 minutes. Then at least those good players will migrage to PvP.
You whined about all these pve skills and now they are nerfed and now those players you hated have moved into your back yard. Nice Work!
Fishdert
As others have said, the players haven't gotten stupider, it's just that there are so many skills so people create retarded builds. You have to dig through to find the diamond in the the rough for some builds, as some skills are strange, like [RTL] and you have to find some build that will use it, but most builds fail using a certain skill. Also, many people have gotten better at GW and there doesn't seem to be as many noobs who wander about not knowing what they are doing. It seems like the game base has matured (finally) and expectations and skills are high, so the bad players look worse than normal. PvP has gotten insane lately, because of the rewards for doing it, like faction and so people are trying out new things at an incredible rate, so there are lots of errors as well as players try to find that "super" build that will get you 10k faction in 15 minutes.
viper11025
I blame the charr, they wern't hard too kill.
>.>
>.>
HawkofStorms
LOL at Red Sonya's rant.
This game has ZERO role-playing. Every character has a fairly set history and goals because the game has a pretty rigid plot. You can't roleplay as an anti-hero or anything else really because the game is set out with your players actions and choices all being quite linear. This game is NOT an RPG in the slightest.
This game has ZERO role-playing. Every character has a fairly set history and goals because the game has a pretty rigid plot. You can't roleplay as an anti-hero or anything else really because the game is set out with your players actions and choices all being quite linear. This game is NOT an RPG in the slightest.
Ate of DK
GuildWars is full with idiots who think they can play. Like guilds with phoenix spamming players who can't get below rank 300 on the ladder. And afterwards they cry that lowbob guilds with bambi's have a better ranking and don't deserve it because they pwnd them really hard in Hallz!
And considering that Anet still sells accounts for GW... who knows how many real new players we encounter in RA.
And considering that Anet still sells accounts for GW... who knows how many real new players we encounter in RA.
Brawn Over Brains
It hasn't really dropped, just more and more people are thinking
"I bet this SS build has never been used before! after all, it was on PvX!"
"I bet this SS build has never been used before! after all, it was on PvX!"
Quaker
First you guys complain that everyone runs cookie-cutter builds, and then you complain when someone tries something different. Lol!
HawkofStorms
Honestly, player skill hasn't droped at all. Its ALWAYS been terrible. I don't even think our expectations are that much higher now, they have just changed (ie, from one meta to another). People are still just as dumb. People are still just as elitest.
The only thing that has really changed in the last 2 years is the development of PvXwiki, which means now even morons will sometimes have deccent bars. It used to be, when a player had a good skill bar, he was also a compitant player (no attacking through Insideous Parasite, etc). Not so much anymore.
The only thing that has really changed in the last 2 years is the development of PvXwiki, which means now even morons will sometimes have deccent bars. It used to be, when a player had a good skill bar, he was also a compitant player (no attacking through Insideous Parasite, etc). Not so much anymore.
Scythe O F Glory
Because everyone points new players in the direction of PvXwiki, and many of the highly skilled players quit.
DreamWind
The overall player skill in this game has always been low. The problem in PvE is that it is so easy to a point where most players learn nothing. All that has to be done for most PvE areas is put inbalanced stuff on bar, roll through enemies, rince and repeat. There is no thought involved in most areas and no skill to be gained.
In PvP the inbalance really comes through, as most players either come from PvE and put bad skills on their bars and get rolled or put inbalanced skills on their bar and fight against other inbalance to see which inbalance is better. This is apparent in RA.
Personally I think the top tier skill players aren't as great either, mostly due to the fact that many of the best players to ever play this game have left it for obvious reasons. Sure there are good players now, but can we really say they are as good as the players who played when the game actually had more skill behind it?
In PvP the inbalance really comes through, as most players either come from PvE and put bad skills on their bars and get rolled or put inbalanced skills on their bar and fight against other inbalance to see which inbalance is better. This is apparent in RA.
Personally I think the top tier skill players aren't as great either, mostly due to the fact that many of the best players to ever play this game have left it for obvious reasons. Sure there are good players now, but can we really say they are as good as the players who played when the game actually had more skill behind it?
Rhamia Darigaz
because trolling people in RA and AB is fun.
Turbobusa
People playing the game will tell you it hasn't
Those who left will tell you it has
Brace for impact!
Those who left will tell you it has
Brace for impact!
Bowstring Badass
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Originally Posted by lutz
It hasn't. Expectations have just grown.
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Also have to remember, GW doesn't have the player base it use to.