Is Ursan still with us!

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There are tons of peeps still using ursan. Yesterday me and a guildie did Hells principe an one of our pugs (a assassin*moan*)and was running ursan. I dont team with randoms that much other than when doing NM missions but the last time i did a HM dungeon with a pug he was using ursan. I did not complain he was brinigng 3 necros and so was i with all those hexs and minons he was not really needed to do anything. but its besides the point . Ursan is crap nowdays and yet people still use it! It still works in away i suppose but the time limit and ursan strike/roar have been so badly nurfed... So Why do peeps still use it!? Even low lvl missions such as Gates of Kyrta monk was running ursan... and i was like lol whut?

On top of that i saw a group of peeps in umbral internat dis last night just talking etc all from one guild and all was rangers accept for 1 R/Rt and 2 monks. I asked them and they said they were a ursan team.... for slavers.
Im guessing they was Arance mimicry Oath shot off a Spirit spammer Oath shot ranger.

Is Ursan still very much with us? Please post your experiences of pre nurf ursan users

I suppose you meant post nerf ursan users.

That said, can't say I've seen anyone using Ursan. Except my pet Bear of course.

It's the same question as asking why anyone would play Paragon after all the nerfs (besides the obvious imbagon).
It's not that something was changed from good to bad.
It's changed from overpowered to somewhat less overpowered.

And I know some players who play UB from time to time.
It's a tool and in certain situations and teams a tool that works rather well.

Why would someone play Paragon after all the nurfs... 100s of reasons xP
&
Yes but not in a NM Gates of kyrta you would think people would only use ursan if they are struggling with build for a high up area. Still i suppose some ppl do not save builds and simply run UB to save time. But since the nurf you have to have other skills on ur bar anyways so its hardly a matter of simply loading one elite and some stances. Perhaps at the end of the day its just people being lazy/ enjoying using ursan.

I myself can not understand these ppl but there are a few peeps : /

My guildy does Ursan.
He ran it before the change.
He does it now.
He's currently wasting money on the last few titles to get him to God Walking.

PvE is easy enough to waste a bar on something that they consider fun.

Edit:
You bastard!
R.I.P to one of the sweetest avatars of Guru.
In it's memory:

*bows head*

I kind of wish Ursan was still with us.

Hating Ursan was just some huge fad that everyone and their god damn mother jumped on the bandwagon for.

If people actually gave a damn about teams being balanced with the gameplay, we'd see even more threads on nerfing Cryway than we did with Ursan. The fact that Cryway is now PuG and guild meta just proves that it's about as difficult a concept to grasp as Ursan, which, remember, another reason people hated it is because it was too easy. Cryway is only marginally more difficult, if the PuG populace can do it.

People would also have the sense to realize that an Imbagon is about as overpowered as a full team of Ursans before their nerf. One person (the Imbagon) could provide the same AL benefits to the whole team at no cost on the skillbar of other players.

People are hypocrites who can't think for themselves; either want game balance, or don't want it.

People are stupid and bad, I did Duncan HM with a guildie of mine and 6 heroes...

ursan still isnt a bad skill. it just requires a little more thought, in most cases too much thought, for people to make it effective. I still use it every now and then, and still get done what I need to get done.

Ursan (along with those other blessings) was worse from a design perspective than other PvE skills because the other skills still required you to make a functional bar that used attributes and the other basics of the game.

That said, I can't think of anyone who argued against Ursan but promotes other PvE skills as a good addition. If you have examples, name and shame.

The problem is what WE here consider to be bad is actually completely sufficient to reward one with winning PvE.
Yeah, I am aware one can win with empty bars - but winning still is winning.

GW has this quite complex system of rules, but PvE just has this insanely simplified version of it. One seriously needs to ask themselves - are the players that exist ONLY in PvE, meaning they can only be judged by it's set of rules, and are able to WIN in it - really bad?

pve skill are baed

That's what the elitest PvP jerks would have you believe.

xP i thought i needed a change.... of course it had to be another cat! maybe i will change it back no?


did it H/H HM beat that! :E

Very good points but i always hated PvE skills in general....cept PI that never ever gets old! xP And i never said i hated ursan (accept just now O_O) i just think people are barking up the wrong tree when they are using it now. As for cryway........... its kinda meh to be honest ive been on a few VS farms ( i know cryway is used in other places) and infact about 70% of them failed Echo>cry>arance echo>echoed cry>cry
is a chain which most pugs imo fail terribly at.



__________

Insert lame ass sig

I just wish ANet went all the way and nerfed all the OP crap ,AKA CoP , SY! and SF. These skills are just a pinch lower on the OP scale than UB and everyone is silent about them?

Ursan still has it's uses.... and it isn't so bad with the nerf done. If you think about what doing you can still use it to your advantage. An ele low on energy can slip into Ursan and still do damage whilst energy regens then swap back and carry on... for example...

All it takes is brain cells and them firing to use it...

PvE doesn't push players, and as a result a player who only does PvE will in almost all cases not be that good at some aspects of the game - prekiting, preprotting, target prioritization, build recognition, positioning, macro tactics, and so on. One can say 'oh, those only matter in PvP', but that's only the case because PvE is simplistic. If PvE was made more difficult and dynamic, those factors would all begin to matter more - and the weaknesses of most players would show further.

So, yes, for the most part, PvE-only players don't have higher-level skills. You simply don't learn them in PvE, and aren't punished for the lack of them. You could make an argument that because PvE players are never forced to do certain things, it's unfair to judge them on those, but if there isn't equal importance placed on aspects when judging overall ability you can't come to a solid conclusion.

I submit as evidence the 'heroes are better than pugs' mentality. The AI, when given equal setup, often outperforms players. Would a team of 8 heroes defeat 8 PvE players? After all, it's not PvP - one side is AI. We could compare their results with PvP players in the same situation - since it's a hypothetical of what PvE would be like if the person designing the skillbars wasn't intentionally (I assume) making mobs terrible. After all - the opposition being bad isn't an excuse for the team to play bad.

Now there's a test I'd like to see.

If I, for example, fought a rank 10000 guild and only barely won, I'd have won. But I'd still be a really bad player. PvE doesn't have 'skillfull' challenge - HM is mainly pumped numbers and a question of how the players can exploit it. Winning in PvE sheds very little light on how good a player is - what's important is how they play in the process of that.

Your whole post is a complaint.

Ursan does still have its uses, however the other 7 skills you have need to do something in during the recharge. I have run teams with the oathshot ursan instant recharge and it does work very well, still giving a lot of the power the old ursan gave.

The reason people put down the pve skills is because there are some pvp people who if they dont have someone or something to say is bad, then they cannot see themselves as good in comparison, There are also some pvp players that totally suck at pve. I have a friend who is a pvp snob of sorts, very good at pvp, r11 Hero and whatnot, but he cant get his chars thru a campaign without someones help. Not all good pvp'ers are good pve'rs. Conversely not all pve'rs are bad pvp'ers. I am in a PvX guild and we have some Great PvP and PvE folks in there and I can tell you that the PvPers learn a bunch from the PvErs and vice versa. There are a lot of subtle nuances in both sides that must be learned and understood, but mastery of either most certainly does not mean mastery of both. AI vs Human behavior, PvE vs PvP skills, the strageies and dynamics are radically different. Anyone find it odd that pve folk rarely complain about pvp folk, yet it is mostly the pvp folk that find themselves so annoyed with and feeling superior to the pve guys? I think the competitve nature has something to do with it, but I also feel that perhaps a general lack of self esteem makes them feel the need to put something or someone down. In pve when you win, everyone wins. In pvp, there is always a winner and a loser.

Perhaps some of the hardcore pvp'ers just put down pve because they cannot come to terms with the fact that while they are good at pvp, they have some weaknesses in pve, and therefore put it down and say "pfft, that stuff is below me".

Why do so many people get so upset about what other people they dont even play with when it comes to what skills they are running? Why do people think that "bad" players shouldnt play guild wars? Who determines what bad is? If you are successful in beating an area or winning a pvp match, how can you still call that player bad?

There are 2 ways to be the biggest building in town. Build youself up or try to push everyone else down.

/winsthread.

But does your average Joe PvP understand those concepts? To a greater extent then your average Joe PvE?
Maybe the standard here (of what is bad) is set to high because we are basing it on the abilities of the best players around. Maybe your average Joe PvE really is your average Joe GW?

the_jos wasn't saying paragon's are bad. he was pointing out that paragon's are still useful even after nerfs to show that nerfing something does not necessarily make it bad. he used this to argue that the ursan nerf did not make ursan useless, only less broken.

why so eager to take single sentences out of context, misunderstand them, and "correct" them by reinforcing the posters point?

cool story bro.

PUGs could hardly run Ursan when it was "good." I tried a Norn point farm one time with a PUG. None of the ursans but me even used the kd skill.

After we wiped and a monk rage quit, I went back to doing it with H/H alone without ursan. Much faster.

Although Ursan can still be used, it now requires thought. Thought = Death. At least in a pug.

Gotta agree with him,ursan was never really that bad,and cryway is just as fast but people arent mad about it,and yes quite afew people still use ursan,it can be fun..not as effective as it used to be,and not as effective as allot other builds,but its fun.

I'm not sure Ursan being worse from a design perspective is very relevant. Would you not be more inclined to agree that, whether it is buttons 1-5, or 1-8 on a standard meta bar, familiarity results in button mashing? Aside from a small part of the GW population, most people do not analyze, understand and work with skills to develop individual and group bars, and they don't need to in order to function as a relatively successful part of a group.

I can think of a slew of people (upwards of a couple dozen), especially posters on guru. But a little birdy told me naming names on Guru is bad and that part of my post will go poof .

LoL. The big problem with PvE in this game almost everybody wins, especially when overpowered crap like Ursan was around (and still is). The game is freakin easy if you have any competence at all. PvP is and has always been the defining factor of how good you are at Guild Wars.

I also find it hilarious that anybody thinks Ursan was "never that bad". Are you kidding me? It was stupidly overpowered before the nerf, and yet post nerf it is still being heavily used. Ask yourself why.

Its just, you cant just take it with any pug and go win everything. People are not ensured of victory anymore, so people don't pug with it. But this doesn't mean its that much worse. Its just less easy to use.

So see it as a good skill, that is really worth it, and that is no longer the button smash fest that each pug could do and win.

Firstly, I disagree. It's one thing to play Guild Wars on easy mode, it's another to essentially ignore most aspects of the game (character role, character build, attributes, etc) and win by spamming attacks.

Secondly, not really. While some bars boil down to just hammering buttons, that's a factor of the build, not of familiarity.

Well, the rule is technically against posting in-game names, because there's little solid proof (photoshop). Posting links to other posts isn't something I recall being a problem!

Exactly. Ursan was just the worst of the worst.

And it's actually still powerful, just not as ridiculously imba as it used to be.

LOL... that is all that needs to be said.....

Another PvP-Holier-Than-Tho attitude.... Solely PvP means people suck, the defining factor would more likely be people who PvP and PvE and succeed at both... tho I can be sure that many PvPers never PvE as has been said "it's beneath them".

Some people like PvP some like PvE, some do both... having PvPers trash things in the PvE realm is kinda lame tbh...and only enforces the snobbishness of PvP people.

Yes Ursan was overpowered, the nerf was probably too much the other way to a degree but as I've said it still has it's uses and in a proper managed team can still be effective.

It is time for people to realize that PvP and its players are superior to PvE and its players *blatant troll*.

PvP only players and PvE only players suck balls PvX is the way to go

I think Ursan is now a tool. No more, no less. Before, Ursan was "all" on Ursan builds. The other skills were there to keep you from dying if you were unlucky enough to lose Ursan. Now, it is good for some temporary spikes, energy recharge, and extra health and armor, but it should be part of a build, and not the whole build.

For example, I use Ursan on my dervish. Not all the time, or even most of the time. But I use it when I need to do alot of damage very fast. I use dervish skills to deal damage, and when my energy starts dropping too much, or my health gets too low, I bring up Ursan for a little while.

The nerf changed Ursan from overpowered, to a simple tool. Ursan is useful when people combine thought with with the act of filling their skill bar. Even as far as knowing when not to use it.

So what you are saying is that there are people out there that are better then me at a completely meaningless activity - and to top it off, I am able to participate in this activity at the level that is providing me the only thing one can get out of it - fun.
What shall I ever do?!

Even that is highly arguable. There are many places in PvE where you actually need to PUG and not bring heroes. So far, nobody has posted a successful 3-players, 9 heroes team for Urgoz and the Deep. How about beating Mallyx?

It is not that easy to use heroes when you hit high-end areas compared to a good PUG. If it is that easy to use heroes to complete these areas, almost everyone would be using them rather than stand around and LFG.

LULWUT>?
And, correct me if I am wrong..This is before eotn, and Mallyx being 'dumbed down.'....


I count 3 peoples...and 5 heroes.
It is of a great help if the 'human' members of the team follow only 1 in the group that is calling targets, and pulling when needed.
The individual 'hack and slash em all' mentality given thanks to UB does not work well in a hero team.


I'll grab the original thread link when this dam page finally loads...
EDIT: Found it!!!
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...llyx &page=15

The biggest problem with ursan and a few other skillsets for that matter, wasn`t that it was overpowered. It was the blinkered attitude of a lot of players that it was the ONLY thing to use, and if you weren`t at least r8 in it, forget getting a group to join.

I was told i suck several times because i couldn`t be bothered with it, probably by some 12 yr old rofl...i did suggest they mail the devs and have them remove every other skill from the game as obviously they were now redundant...guess those mails never got sent :P

Pre seed of life nerf
Pre motivation/anthem of agression paragon nerfs
Pre splinter weapon nerf
And used a imbagon

Was able to reproduce success with this build a week after gwen came out (to get my mallyx statue), probably with cons it still works, but not as well as heavy physicals do now.