new sin looking for advice

ForgeWhelp

ForgeWhelp

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

TGW

N/Mo

So I've been playing with my sin off and on for a month and been using a couple different Moebius builds with Hero/Hench PvE NM and HM. Problem that I run into is that what I attack dies too fast from my H/H and I never get to Moebius, and/or Critical Defences expires running from mob to one guy to the next, because I only get one or 2 hits and if it's not a crit then it expires. So then I'm left being a 'tank' but I get owned because the enchants faded with out crits...

So I'm either looking for a build that I can tank better or maybe lay out a little more AoE, but I want to be more usefull. Single target spiking just isn't working when I have to lay out more than 3-4 skills to do it because it's already dead and then I'm waiting for stuff to recharge.

I was thinking maybe a Promise and shadow step build, because then at least I could get around and do more than "C, Space, crap it's dead, C, Space, crap it's dead...", but what woud be goo to fill it out?


EDIT
Here is a build I threw together:

Critical Agility
Assasins Remedy (I seem to get blinded all the time)
Deaths Charge
Unsuspecting Strike
Assasins Promise
Jagged Strike
Golden Fang Strike
(Res of choice)

I figure I'll enchant up, hop in lay out some damage, Promise and conditions and then when it's dead hop to the next and get a little heal on the way...Not sure what the numbers should be...

Bobby2

Bobby2

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2007

Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards

[MaSS]

W/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForgeWhelp View Post
So I've been playing with my sin off and on for a month and been using a couple different Moebius builds with Hero/Hench PvE NM and HM. Problem that I run into is that what I attack dies too fast from my H/H and I never get to Moebius,
Common occurrence in NM.

Quote: Originally Posted by ForgeWhelp View Post and/or Critical Defences expires running from mob to one guy to the next, because I only get one or 2 hits and if it's not a crit then it expires. So then I'm left being a 'tank' but I get owned because the enchants faded with out crits... Don't tank, for that matter don't take CritDef.

Quote: Originally Posted by ForgeWhelp View Post
So I'm either looking for a build that I can tank better or maybe lay out a little more AoE, but I want to be more usefull. Single target spiking just isn't working when I have to lay out more than 3-4 skills to do it because it's already dead and then I'm waiting for stuff to recharge. Again, don't tank. If you want that use Shadow Form.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForgeWhelp View Post
I was thinking maybe a Promise and shadow step build, because then at least I could get around and do more than "C, Space, crap it's dead, C, Space, crap it's dead...", but what woud be goo to fill it out? [assassin's promise][shadow fang] is favoured by many.

o&useSrch

Stealth Bomberman

Stealth Bomberman

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForgeWhelp View Post
So I've been playing with my sin off and on for a month and been using a couple different Moebius builds with Hero/Hench PvE NM and HM. Problem that I run into is that what I attack dies too fast from my H/H and I never get to Moebius, and/or Critical Defences expires running from mob to one guy to the next, because I only get one or 2 hits and if it's not a crit then it expires. So then I'm left being a 'tank' but I get owned because the enchants faded with out crits...
crit d is bad anyway. use monks that dont suck youll be fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForgeWhelp View Post
So I'm either looking for a build that I can tank better or maybe lay out a little more AoE, but I want to be more usefull. Single target spiking just isn't working when I have to lay out more than 3-4 skills to do it because it's already dead and then I'm waiting for stuff to recharge. single target spiking in PvE is bad imo. DB/MS spam is what u want, unless running a AP build.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ForgeWhelp View Post
EDIT
Here is a build I threw together:

Critical Agility
Assasins Remedy (I seem to get blinded all the time)
Deaths Charge
Unsuspecting Strike
Assasins Promise
Jagged Strike
Golden Fang Strike
(Res of choice)

I figure I'll enchant up, hop in lay out some damage, Promise and conditions and then when it's dead hop to the next and get a little heal on the way...Not sure what the numbers should be... in places like desolation and realm of torment, shadowstepping in is suicide as most if not all mobs have 2-3 enchant removal skills. ull be left tanking (lol) again.

ForgeWhelp

ForgeWhelp

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

TGW

N/Mo

Problem was with DB/MS spam that I only got it off on bosses. Otherwise they all drop too fast.

My test build is 'okay' so far in testing, but at least it's more fun and active than waiting for every thing to recharge because Moebius didn't get off.

I'd still like a little more 'staying power' though...hmmm

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

First thing: You have low AL for a melee based character. If you're going to play aggressively as in just jumping into mobs, you'll be needing a lot of defense and/or coordinated Monks. Otherwise, you'll be saving skill slots and time. Finish a mob, move on.

MS/DB is undoubtably one of the best, if not the best Assassin bar for PvE going. You should find some on PvXWiki. If you really want to combo stuff down, use Assassins' Promise. For more, check the stickied guide.

Oh, and for an Assassins' Promise bar, you're probably getting something like this:

[assassins promise][black spider strike][twisting fangs][golden phoenix strike][blades of steel][assassin's remedy][no skill][no skill]

Last two slots would probably be energy management. I find Way of the Lotus is a pretty cool skill. The only problem is that it's in a weak attribute line.

Kerwyn Nasilan

Kerwyn Nasilan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2007

WHERE DO YOU THINK

W/

Yeah things do die to fast for DB/MS, my advice is to pack a weak opening and off-hand move, then target something else for your H/H to attack while you spam MS/DB. A shadow-step is nice so you can get the mob as close packed in as possible.

dilan155

dilan155

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2007

living room

N/

in NM things die so fast that MB/DB almost seems like a waste, not to say that it is ofc. go either an [assassin's promise] bar or the [death blossom] bars. check pvx for some builds.

Bobulation

Bobulation

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2008

USA

W/Mo

Or you could bring [Assassin's Promise]["You Move Like A Dwarf!"] and ["Finish him!"] and just C-space your way through PvE

wind fire and ice

wind fire and ice

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Oct 2008

There

[ToA]

agree'd with the above,ap+pves=win.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

Needed some offhand, and that is unblockable! AND it has super speed attack force! AND it has a recharge comparable to that of Mantis, Wild Blow AND BoS!!

ac1inferno

ac1inferno

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

Boston

We D Shot Your Stances [GODS]

A/W

You could always use skills that guarantee critical hits when they hit ([[Critical Strike], [[Malicious Strike] (if it hits a foe with a Condition), [[Wild Blow]).

Or use skills that increase critical hit chance ([[Critical Eye] raises critical hit chance and you gain +1 energy for every critical hit you make, [[Way of the Assassin] (Elite) raises critical hit chance and attack speed while wielding Daggers, [[Way of the Master] raises critical hit chance while wielding a non-Dagger weapon).

Or use a ims to run faster from one guy to the next so you can get more hits in ([[Rush], [[Sprint], [[Natural Stride], [[Storm Chaser], [[Storm's Embrace], [[Storm Djinn's Haste], [[Dash], [[Godspeed], [["Lead the Way!"], [[Enchanted Haste], [[Featherfoot Grace], [[Harrier's Haste], [[Whirling Charge], [[Signet of Mystic Speed]).

Or if you just don't like [[Moebius Strike] [[Death Blossom], there's a lot of good sin builds for PvE that doesn't have to be.

1. [build prof=A/D critic=12+1+1 scythe=12][optional][Mystic Sweep][Eremite's Attack][Asuran Scan][Critical Agility][Aura of Holy Might][Way of the Master][Resurrection Signet][/build]
[[Reaper's
[email protected]] for a heavy damage attack with condition Deep Wound.
[[Wounding [email protected]] for free Deep Wound covered with Bleeding.

2. [build prof=A/any crit=12+1 dagger=12+1+1][Unsuspecting Strike][Golden Fang Strike][Death Blossom][optional][Critical Eye][Fox's promise][Critical Agility][Resurrection Signet][/build]
[[Dash]
[[Wild Strike]
[[Critical Defenses]
[[Assassin's Remedy]

3. [build prof=assas/any dagger=12+1+1 crit=12+1][Golden Fox Strike][Wild Strike][Shattering Assault][optional][Critical Eye][Critical Defenses][Critical Agility][Sunspear Rebirth Signet][/build]
[[Impale]: if your team can't inflict deep wound. switch your attributes to 12-10-8, then, to make deep wound last longer
[[Dash] as a speed boost
[[Way of Perfection] for self healing
[[Critical Strike] for extra energy mangement and a sure critical
[[Malicious Strike]: same reasons, doesn't interrupt your chain, needs ally to apply a condition
Take [[Death Blossom] for AoE damage.
[[Assassin's Remedy] provides strong condition removal
Use [[Brawling Headbutt] to put all the adrenaline you stack to a good use.
You can use the optional for a [[Signet of Capture].
Use shouts to support your party or a defensive stance.
[[Balanced Stance] to counter knock downs
[[Distracting Blow] to interrupt key skills
[["Watch Yourself!"] can provide a party-wide armor bonus
[["Save Yourselves!"] to provide the whole party a 100 armor boost.
Use [[Conjure Flame], [[Conjure Frost] or [[Conjure Lightning]. Note that managing energy will be a bit harder.
Of course, [[Plague Touch] is always a good choice.
You might want to use [[Vigorous Spirit], though [[Way of Perfection] compares favorably even at low ranks in Shadow Arts
Bring [[Death Pact Signet] for hard res. [[Sight Beyond Sight] works nicely against blind.
[[Mystic Regeneration] will give you a nice self heal, making you even less vulnerable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby2 View Post
I will never understand your weird fascination with [fox fangs]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla View Post
Needed some offhand, and that is unblockable! AND it has super speed attack force! AND it has a recharge comparable to that of Mantis, Wild Blow AND BoS!! I never understood it either. If you want unblockable, [[Wild Strike]. Super speed attack force, [[Jungle Strike]. Wild Strike has low recharge, and the 2 second extra recharge of Jungle Strike compared to [[Fox Fangs] won't kill you. Sure, Fox Fangs can't be blocked, but it doesn't really help if the rest of the chain can still be. Jungle Strike does just a little bit less unconditional damage than Fox Fangs, but it has the chance to do a whole lot more if there's cripple and you have [[Leaping Mantis Sting] which has a decent chance of crippling.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

My main reason for Fox Fangs is that it's more reliable in triggering Blades of Steel. If I get knocked down after Wild Strike like before I use Wild Blow, I could lose +30 damage in that scenario.

ForgeWhelp

ForgeWhelp

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

TGW

N/Mo

Thanks for all the feed back, I'll try some of this out.

MegaVolti

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2008

Me/Rt

[Golden Phoenix Strike][Death Blossom][Moebius Strike]

Even in NM you will get to Moebius, recharging all other skills and allowing you to start over with the next enemy.

Or:

[Golden Fox Strike][Wild Strike][Death Blossom]

Allows you to get to DB fast to deal AoE damage. Elite maybe Moebius, but if stuff dies to fast for you anything else also works (e.g. [[Flashing Blades] for some def).

Bobby2

Bobby2

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2007

Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards

[MaSS]

W/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by MegaVolti View Post
[Golden Phoenix Strike][Death Blossom][Moebius Strike]

Even in NM you will get to Moebius, recharging all other skills and allowing you to start over with the next enemy.
Don't do this. A major reason people prefer [golden fox strike][wild strike] over [golden phoenix strike] is that it never leaves you hanging at 8 seconds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MegaVolti View Post
(e.g. [Flashing Blades] for some def). Don't do this either. Am Fah aren't that impressive y'know?

Concrete advice is keep running MS-DB. The best way to ensure a moebius hit is to use this chain:
[sneak attack][exhausting assault][moebius strike][death blossom]
Rawr 4 utility plz

Sir Pandra Pierva

Sir Pandra Pierva

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

Sardelec yelling at Tenshi

Angels Of Strife

E/

while util is nice i still prefer
[wild strike]
[golden fox strike]

Stealth Bomberman

Stealth Bomberman

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2008

I stopped using [wild strike] in PvE ages ago. things didnt die fast enough since I was pretty much the only melee on the team. I switched to [golden fang strike] since DW in PvE rulez hard.

Unreal Havoc

Guest

Join Date: Dec 2007

Could try some of these, changing them to suit the way you play.


[Critical Agility][Fox's Promise][Asuran Scan][Unsuspecting Strike][Golden Fang Strike][Death Blossom][Mending Touch][Rebirth]

[Golden Fox Strike][Wild Strike][Death Blossom][Critical Eye][Flashing Blades][Critical Agility][Vigorous Spirit][Live Vicariously]

[I Am The Strongest][Conjure Frost][Asuran Scan][By Urals Hammer][Way of the Assassin][Unsuspecting Strike][Golden Fang Strike][Death Blossom]

[Way of the Master][Critical Eye][Barrage][Keen Arrow][Distracting Shot][Ebon Battle Standard of Honor][Ebon Battle Standard of Courage][Resurrection Signet]

illidan009

illidan009

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2008

Volterra, Italy

A/

OP new build, a bunch of unrelated lead attacks with no follow ups. What's up with that? O__O
MS DB for life!!! I mean cmon your entire chain has a max cd of 4 seconds(unsuspecting/golden fox, wild strike, db ms)

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

[critical defenses] suck srs baed.

Unreal Havoc

Guest

Join Date: Dec 2007

[Assassin's Promise][Shadow Fang]["You Move Like A Dwarf!"][A Touch Of Guile]["Finish him!"]

Is a pretty awesome combo at high Norn ranks.

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

40 energy combo with no propper energy management wtf!!! o:

Unreal Havoc

Guest

Join Date: Dec 2007

You have an open secondary proffession with 3 skill slots left open. Use them if you find it an issue.

I found using a wand and focus was fine though.

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

critical wanding ftw D: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Luminarus

Luminarus

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Aug 2007

Sydney, Australia

Haze of Light [pure]

R/

a 40 energy combo that u gain back approximately 20 from. You also have no secondary [Glyph of Lesser Energy] springs to mind, and the ability to go 9/9 crit/dagger to auto attack for some decent energy gain. Also if you are dropping mobs that fast, I somehow doubt that you are gonna be strapped for energy. Just give it a wait in between mobs, or after one or 2 spikes, just hit them with AP finish him. You dont need to use the entire combo just because you have it.

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

well if you kill fast you are screwed with energy and if you cant kill fast its pretty pointless. If you dont like melee just say so and play a caster class. I like melee and assassins so MS/DB and daggers ftw!!!

Unreal Havoc

Guest

Join Date: Dec 2007

Or how about I just do what the hell I want to do? I'm bored of spamming MS/DB all the time.

Bobby2

Bobby2

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2007

Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards

[MaSS]

W/E

Note thread title

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

screw the thread title D: !