Ode to the Offer

Lycan Nibbler

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2006

AZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by upier View Post
IF someone happens to say that, I just tell them to give me a minute for me to check Guru to see what the normal price for the item is.
IF you are spamming WTB - then why havent you done that already??? Answer is, you will have before you start doing WTB as noone starts doing that without knowing the price range of the item they want.

I think you missed the point that the OP was actively seeking something ie WTB, not just seeing something in passing.

Wrath of m0o

Wrath of m0o

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2005

Boston Ma.

Is That Your Build[HaHa]

P/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Drops Az View Post
Exactly.

When you are doing WTB then you are starting any transaction and need to be naming your price you are willing to buy - if you dont have one, then you are pretty stupid spamming WTB without a value in your mind.
Exactly wrong...excuse me Miss..but you need a checkup from the neck up.

I WTB Item..

I get multiple sellers telling me what they want for said item.

Player A wants X for item.
Player B wants Y for item.

I now take the best price and proceed to checkout.

You show me where, anywhere your theory of the buyer starting the sale works anywhere besides in Guild Wars.

Lycan Nibbler

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2006

AZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrath of m0o View Post
This is how i WTS..

Me - WTS Superior Vigor

PlayerX - How Much?

(I already know what im going to sell this thing for before i even post, or close to it)

Me - 17k

PlayerX - umm...16k

Me - Fine..storage

The WTS i have no problems with, its the WTB's with this offer some price thats in your head that i have to mindread. I dont know what you want for it so i have a hard time making an offer with nothing to go on here.
It is so much more logical to just say what you want for the thing in the first place, rather than pick an unknown figure you are going to be happy with.
Just tell us what you want for it..you will sell alot more stuff this way.
This offer me crap just pisses people off.
Its a simple concept to understand (The auction stuff was irrelevant as thats a different form of selling and nothing to do with a WTB).

In your example, you are starting a transaction by doing WTS, a person replies asking how much for, you give a price, they counter and you agree.

In the WTB example, you start the transaction by doing WTB, a person replies asking how much you are offering (a price), you give the price you are looking to buy for, they counter and you agree..

Why would you not follow your same protocol when you are seeking to buy as when you are seeking to sell? there is no mind reading needed, you know if you are willing to pay 10g or 1,000 ectos for what you are seeking.

This is how you should WTB..

Me - WTB Superior Vigor

PlayerX - How much are you buying for?

(I already know what im going to buy this thing for before i even post, or close to it)

Me - 16k

PlayerX - umm...17k is the lowest Im willing to go

Me - Fine..storage

QED

Lycan Nibbler

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2006

AZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrath of m0o View Post
Exactly wrong...excuse me Miss..but you need a checkup from the neck up.

I WTB Item..

I get multiple sellers telling me what they want for said item.

Player A wants X for item.
Player B wants Y for item.

I now take the best price and proceed to checkout.

You show me where, anywhere your theory of the buyer starting the sale works anywhere besides in Guild Wars.
YOU ARE NOT AT A CHECKOUT! THIS ISNT A STORE! LMAO You bring up suddenly "player A and player B" to cloud the original post where you were dealing with one person - now you are talking about something different in playing two people off against one another which is a totally different situation from your OP.

Excuse me Moo, but if you are going to start with the insults because you cant understand the simple concept that if you are saying that you want to buy then you are the one expected to have a price unless you are a scammer, then you are the one who needs some additional education.

The fact that you even started such a pathetic thread because you were a) too stupid, b) too stubborn, c) looking to scam someone or d) a combination of the above, to name a price you wanted to buy an item for - when you were the one typing WTB in trade - that you had to come onto guru to QQ about it is actually funny.

Needless to say, I will be ignoring any WTB I see from you as I am passing through towns, have a good day!

Traveller

Traveller

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Finland

League of Extraordinary Explorers [LOST] (my one man guild)

Me/

The reason for this is usually trying to see if they can get a price way above average from someone who doesn't know the "market" price. Sometimes they are just testing the waters, sometimes they wait until the end of time until someone pays 50k for their fungal wallow.

I usually just say I don't deal with "offer" people. Usually they will give me a price after that, and we can barter.

DarkGanni

DarkGanni

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

Malta

[CuTe]

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrath of m0o View Post
What part of the world do you go into a store, and there are absolutly no prices..you just say ill offer you 50 bucks for that T.V.
Why cant people tell you what they want to sell something for?
Isnt it easier to just tell someone how much you want for it, instead of waiting untill someone offers something more than its worth?
I know what you mean, that's how I see it aswell, I usually reply with "No thanks" and keep searching for the item I want. Most likely they are waiting for someone to offer more than it's worth OR they don't know the price of the item.

upier

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrath of m0o View Post
Thnx for that Upier...

99.333% of people who are selling things already do this.
You cant tell me that you have no idea what you want for it, so you want me to offer something that your happy with? Thats absured!!

Im going to go get gas tomorrow, walk into the station and say i need to fill my truck with gas...Ill give you 18 bucks for a full tank, lets see how that works out.
To quote you:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrath of m0o View Post
One of the biggest things that piss me off in this game, is the countless people that wont tell you how much they want for something.,

Me - WTB Superior Vigor

PlayerX - Offer?

Me - How much for it?

PlayerX - Offer?

Me - HOW MUCH DO YOU WANT FOR IT?

PlayerX - Offer?

Me - Forget it!
Me - WTB Superior Vigor
That means that the example you have given is only valid in 0.677% cases.
You don't THINK or DO it, you SAY it.
An "offer" vs "no U" bitchfight can't end in anything productive.
So to put an end to it - you show the other guy that you know what you are talking about. You show that you aren't easy bait. And if that freaks him out - well then, you probably won't get a good offer out of it.
And if it doesn't freak him out - just name your starting price.

Lyynyyrd

Lyynyyrd

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2008

Aussie Trolling Crew - Spah!

Cause gw is full of idiots who don't understand that the barter system is outdated.


(gw players don't go outside / shopping)

Sjeng

Sjeng

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

in my GH

Limburgse Jagers [LJ]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrath of m0o View Post
From now on whenever anyone hits me with "offer"?, im going to reply..two goats and a donkey.
LOL, I'm am SO remembering that one xD
Definately going to do that as well. I hate haggling.

Mr. Undisclosed

Mr. Undisclosed

I phail

Join Date: Mar 2007

Phailville

D/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Bunny View Post
You know, you could just offer what you will pay for the item, and avoid making a long rant.
But...that'd make sense!


Honestly when I ask for offers its because I'm not really sure how much it costs and am trying to find the price range its in. Never thought of it to try and get higher offers then deserved.

thelessa

thelessa

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

Texas

Purple Puzycats

R/Mo

I always state a price when I want to buy something from another player, then we can haggle

Shayne Hawke

Shayne Hawke

Departed from Tyria

Join Date: May 2007

Clan Dethryche [dth]

R/

The first person to mention a price in an exchange loses.

Also, people are looking to cheat stupid people because they think an item has a different worth than they expect, or they don't know the item's value themselves and want other players to tell them what it's really worth.

Damian979

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2008

comes from one of two things:

They think they are "power traders" (lol) in which case they want someone to overpay for the item which they probably underpaid to someone else who didn't know what it was worth.

They don't know what the item is actually worth and are too lazy to do some research to find the actual selling price.

Regardless, it is a given that whoever it is will go higher than what ever you initially bid so always bid low to get the price you want. If they still ask for more than it's worth then walk away and start a rant thread on guru.

DarkFlame

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2005

Ascalon

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrath of m0o View Post
This is how i WTS..

Me - WTS Superior Vigor

PlayerX - How Much?
....
The WTS i have no problems with, its the WTB's with this offer some price thats in your head that i have to mindread. I dont know what you want for it so i have a hard time making an offer with nothing to go on here.
The fact that you don't put the price in the first line, that you would force the buyer to ask; you're already pulling the same damn thing. "How much?" is just the same as "Offer?" Why should PlayerX have to read your mind just to get the balling rolling on your WTS? And why should your WTB be different from your WTS? You know your price already, just make the offer and negotiate from there.

Quote:
It is so much more logical to just say what you want for the thing in the first place, rather than pick an unknown figure you are going to be happy with.
Agreed, so why do you have to be so difficult about it just because you're buying rather then selling? The rules are the same from both ends, you want the best price you can get for something. Because you initiate, you set the opening offer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrath of m0o View Post
You show me where, anywhere your theory of the buyer starting the sale works anywhere besides in Guild Wars.
Aren't these the business models behind Priceline and Expedia and other such sites? They work, don't they?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveller View Post
The reason for this is usually trying to see if they can get a price way above average from someone who doesn't know the "market" price.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkGanni View Post
Most likely they are waiting for someone to offer more than it's worth
But the reverse is also true. You guys are speaking from a WTS stand point, while OP comes from the other side. He's looking for someone to offer below average. Whether you're buying or selling, looking for the other party to make the first offer is essentially looking for someone to hang themselves. He's just upset that no one is biting.

@Sin City I don't give a damn where you grew up. You're more "more inclusive of and sympathetic" than I am, you know that how? I'm Chinese, not Korean, but I'm willing to bet you are neither. So you grew up sheltered in an American army base and were exposed to bits and pieces, so you know better? Bull, my culture and experience are far "more inclusive of and sympathetic" then yours will ever be. You don't get to defend that. Op uses it as a negative. So guess what, its a negative, its damn racist.

Yang Whirlwind

Yang Whirlwind

~ Retired ~

Join Date: Nov 2005

Copenhagen, Denmark (GMT +1)

E/

As far as I can tell you are the one starting the problem. Next time use:

Me: WTB Superior Vigor - XXK (firm)

that should solve the problem.

I hate it, when people do not want to offer a price and gets mad at me for not wanting to offer a price

Keira Nightgale

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2007

Gulfstream Owners Club [GS]

Rt/R

I agree with Yang there, if you're firm they will adapt, if you aren't then you will just start a game of guess the correct price.

Quaker

Quaker

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Aug 2005

Canada

Brothers Disgruntled

A scenario (fiction).

I see a build I want to try - it uses a Greene Sword. I have no idea what a Greene Sword is or what it's worth.

So I say "WTB Greene Sword"

Meanwhile some guy has a Greene Sword, he has no idea what is worth, but it looks cool so he's keeping it. But, if the price is right, he'll sell it.

So some guy pm's me and says "How much are you offering?"

Me: (I don't know what they're worth, so...) "How much do you want?"

Some guy: (he doesn't know what it's worth, but he doesn't want to sell a 100k item for 10k, so...) "How much are you offering?"

Me: (I don't want to buy a 10k item for 100k, so...) "How much do you want?"

etc, etc, rinse & repeat.

The point: neither of these people are trying to "rip off" the other, but simply trying to not be ripped off. Sure, if they were into buying and selling, and/or they knew where to look, they could do a price check before hand, but the bottom line is, it's just normal people doing normal stuff.
Or, at least, it can be. There's no need to get your panties in a bunch over it.

Scythe O F Glory

Scythe O F Glory

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2008

New Jersey

League of Elite [LoE]

D/

lol just make an offer, is it that hard? Negotiate with the guy instead of crying on guru.

Unreal Havoc

Guest

Join Date: Dec 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scythe O F Glory View Post
lol just make an offer, is it that hard? Negotiate with the guy instead of crying on guru.
Please... don't make this easier than it needs to be.

Reverend Dr

Reverend Dr

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Super Fans Of Gaile [ban]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke View Post
The first person to mention a price in an exchange loses.
NO! YOU ARE WRONG!

Seriously please stop perpetuating this idea. The person that makes the first offer sets the pace of the transaction. If you know your price, offer to buy under it, if you are selling offer to sell for more than your bottom. You set the pace, they either accept the offer more beneficial to you or they counter offer. If they counter offer you know that they are interested and you can hook them. If they don't counter offer then you know right then this trade isn't worth any moreof your time.

The only thing you lose out on are other people making grotesquely bad offers. Marking this as a loss is practically like saying you are looking to take advantage of poor trader (note: not scamming, lets not derail). There are plenty of much better ways to take advanage of somone that doesn't know what things are worth.

Ec]-[oMaN

Ec]-[oMaN

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Toronto, Ont.

[DT][pT][jT][Grim][Nion]

W/

I usually just don't reply back if they don't have a set price for their item. They can continue to keep it in their storage for months years if they want to play those games.

Ec]-[oMaN

Ec]-[oMaN

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Toronto, Ont.

[DT][pT][jT][Grim][Nion]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gift3d View Post
I ignore anyone who says that kinda bs to me. Cause whenever i reply, it's always a greedy kid who goes "nt" as soon as you say a standard price. Just hoping you'll overpay for their stuff. If not, NT.
Sums up the cause behind the offer BS.

Aera

Aera

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Galactic President Superstar Mc [awsm]

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by I pwnd U View Post
Because people wanna see if they can scam you. If you don't know how much they are worth and are willing to overpay for it they will jump on you and sell it quick. If they give you an offer and you think its to much they don't wanna take the time to bargain with you or they are massively over pricing it and just trying to catch a newbie.
I plainly don't know the prices because I don't pve much, so I have no idea what to offer

Tramp

Tramp

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jan 2008

Mo/

Whoever makes the post should put the price down. If you post WTB you should put the price you are willing to pay. If you put WTS put what you want for it. The opposite party can counter. The whole pm me thing is stupid. When people have an item for sale in town with no price I ask how much, they say offer, i give them stupid low price for wasting my time. Then ask for the real price after they say no. Could have saved everyone time if they were not so stupid.

Nessar

Nessar

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2008

West Siiiiiiiiiiiiiide

Gwen Has A Thing For [Pyre]

I usually say offer because I dont know what the price is. I just want to get rid of the item as soon as possible. But if I don't know the price, I'm not gonna say WTS BLAH BLAH 100k + 500e!!!. I just want an honest offer. I'm not out to scam people like some of you assume O.o....
On the buying thing, I try to research the price of what the item is, if I dont know it, I'll just sit in town until I see someone selling XXX for whatever. If I dont see that, of course I'll ask how much.
I also don't feel like searching through threads in guru to look for the price of one item when the price could have changed already ~.~. And this is why I rarely trade outside of friends/guildies. -.- For small items anyway...

Now on the OP, the whole back and forth thing is totally unnecessary. Just put up a price and if they reject, get on with it. Try somewhere else. Problem solved

Issac

Issac

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2006

Earthrealm

W/A

If you offer to low they call u a noob and ignore you, ppl these days lol.

Zera Fang

Zera Fang

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2006

New Mexico

N/Mo

It's this culture that's the problem. When was the last time you actually had to bargain a price out? We're use to commercialized set priced goods, so in an environment where you have to trade things that don't have a set value people will... Well, fail. I can't tell you how many times I've tried to buy something from someone only to be balked by them thinking that the price I offer them is a take it or leave it thing. Or how many times I've tried to sell something only to have people go, "Ugh... 1k?" as an offer when the item is clearly worth way more than that. Not to mention its hard to judge a person's interest in the item, so you can't really bargain effectively anyway... You lose soo much in a chat box. -Shrugs-

TheRanger

TheRanger

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

Greed? It's not always greed people in GW always stuck up in one mindset.. silly.

It could also mean the d00d doesn't know the price of the item and doesn't want to give a price that uber low. Cause you know, everyone doesn't visit a forum everyday and checks the prices on all items.

Offer only bothers me if the d00d doesn't respond after telling him to give me a price.

Me: How muchO?
d00d: offer
Me: Dunno, give me a price
-no response-

Shshhh RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing reply now of these days I don't even care what the price is, I just want the item. And it's like we could set a price o' something if you'd respond but you have to put on some anti-social one minded impression o' something it's uber lame.

Oh, and this also applies to sellers, buyers, vice versa, ect., jellybeans.

genofreek

genofreek

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

USA

Jenova's Apocolyptic Remains [JAR]

D/

You might be right, Zera, and that's a really interesting bit of perspective. I personally can't stand the fact that GW doesn't have some sort of central marketplace where items can be price checked and sold easily. I always thought of it as a nitpick we all shared, but maybe it IS a cultural thing. Doesn't change the fact that haggling and having to do more research for the price of an inscription than I did for my last final irks me to the point where I give my stuff away if I can't use it, but hey. :P

In the situation described by the OP, I think he's being kind of a big jerk. I think the person advertising, whether they want to buy or sell, should have at least SOME idea of the worth of the item or service. If someone's selling something, I ask what they want and they say "offer", I go get the thing myself or find a seller who isn't trying to dance with me. I don't enjoy haggling at all. I'm tired of people trying to rip me off on something as petty as naga pelts. Name a price. Any price. We'll go from there.