I know whacha gonna say kid: BOOHOO, Megaton got blown up... no wait, wrong game.
Anyway, so I got bored on stomping on peoples' faces and epic fails, and decided to do some PvE for a change. Naive I though hey they killed Ursan, so it can't be that bad. Fast enough I discovered that the only groups around are perma with cryers or similar bs. Sure, whatever - I can fit into those... but my God, this game became a drag.
Whats the point of all those supposed challenges if you just include cheat code to come with it? The whole concept of perma Shadow Form is just that - a cheat. How can one enjoy game by cheating all the way is beyond me.
On a flip side, we have a player base degraded to unbelievable lows due to the use of cheats. The story of joining perma group became a story of watching people fail at basic things. Its all about lowering standards. Once you did that, people suddenly became bad... and I mean BAED. All the idiocy and arrogance surfaced, because playing with 3 skills on your bar does not require anything more.
And why all this? Just so somebody could farm supposedly rare items all day long? Screw that, I already have a job, I don't need another one. I want entertainment of playing.
Well anyway...
Dear ANet, please kill Shadow Form. Kill and bury it. Skills like this should never exist.
Perma is the new PvE?
Robbert Monga
Sora267
*Insert obligatory "You don't need to use Perma SF, its optional, just join a guild, quit QQing and realize that using perma SF is fun for some people, and quit being a whiny bitch and calling everything that you don't like that's any good a cheat." response here*
Reflect
/off Megaton's there, i saved it /off
yup! destroy the SF!
yup! destroy the SF!
unienaule
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sora of the Divine
*Insert obligatory "You don't need to use Perma SF, its optional, just join a guild, quit QQing and realize that using perma SF is fun for some people, and quit being a whiny bitch and calling everything that you don't like that's any good a cheat." response here*
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I guess the question is, since we went from Ursan to Shadow Form, what could be more ridiculous than Shadow Form?
kupp
Sigh. When I started reading this thread I thought it was a rant about how narrow minded GW has become. Cryway, SF, yoda's magic underwear, people only take one profession with one specific build, nobody plays the game the way they want to.
Aaaanyway, yeah agree on that. SF is lame, kill it, period. Even if it's just for teh lulz on watching 12 year olds QQing to their mothers on how they can't farm UW 24/7 and thinking their THE shit. *evil laugh*
Seriously tough, kill it.
Aaaanyway, yeah agree on that. SF is lame, kill it, period. Even if it's just for teh lulz on watching 12 year olds QQing to their mothers on how they can't farm UW 24/7 and thinking their THE shit. *evil laugh*
Seriously tough, kill it.
MisterT69
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sora of the Divine
*Insert obligatory "You don't need to use Perma SF, its optional, just join a guild, quit QQing and realize that using perma SF is fun for some people, and quit being a whiny bitch and calling everything that you don't like that's any good a cheat." response here*
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Abedeus
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MisterT69
^yeah what he said, or you can just choose to play a different game, I mean its just one skill that saves a lot of us time on elite missions so I don't particularly have a problem with it.
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Ignoring the problem isn't solving the problem. You can cover your ears and shout LALALALLAL I CAN'T HAER YOUUUU!!! but the ugly monster is still there staring at you.
MirkoTeran
While I totally agree with OP, this thread is just bound to end in flames.
And to put something on the fire: Kill SF. Kill PvE-only skills. Kill PvP/PvE split. Nerf cons. (did I forget something?)
And to put something on the fire: Kill SF. Kill PvE-only skills. Kill PvP/PvE split. Nerf cons. (did I forget something?)
ajc2123
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sora of the Divine
*Insert obligatory "You don't need to use Perma SF, its optional, just join a guild, quit QQing and realize that using perma SF is fun for some people, and quit being a whiny bitch and calling everything that you don't like that's any good a cheat." response here*
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12 chars or soemthing like that
Konig Des Todes
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robbert Monga
How can one enjoy game by cheating all the way is beyond me.
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People use cheats not to beat the game fast, but to wtfpwn others. That is why people like spike builds.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robbert Monga
Well anyway...
Dear ANet, please kill Shadow Form. Kill and bury it. Skills like this should never exist. |
[Spell Breaker], ["Save Yourselves!"], [Obsidian Flesh], ["There's Nothing To Fear!"] and skills of the such. You cannot kill just one god mode while leaving the others free.
Also, no need to kill and bury skills, just change their usage. Like for Shadow Form, make it immune to damage only (i.e., take 0 damage from damage - so spells, conditions, hexes, etc. still hurt, but you don't loose actual health) and remove the "loose all but xyz health" upon ending it. That way, with it still maintainable like it is, it won't kill someone but it also makes it a lot less farm build worthy.
Or, you can make Deadly Paradox not work for elite enchantment skills.
That way, they are still usable, but not "god mode" skills.
![[DE]](/static/static/../Img/avatar38220_14.gif){kind=avatar}
[DE]
After much research I've discovered PvE is boring even when you aren't abusing all the gimmicky skills in the game. If cryway and SF disappeared people would move back to tank'n'spank or something dumb like that. If every gimmick was out of the game it'd be '05 THK all over again, only THK would be HM.
MisterT69
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Abedeus
People like you ruin the game and if they make GW2 for people like you, it will fail massively.
Ignoring the problem isn't solving the problem. You can cover your ears and shout LALALALLAL I CAN'T HAER YOUUUU!!! but the ugly monster is still there staring at you. |
And honestly, not everyone thinks SF is an ugly monster, and yeah you may say it's noob, but these gimmicky builds like SF and cryway are what makes PVE more enjoyable. But then again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Nessar
Quote:
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Originally Posted by [DE]
After much research I've discovered PvE is boring even when you aren't abusing all the gimmicky skills in the game. If cryway and SF disappeared people would move back to tank'n'spank or something dumb like that. If every gimmick was out of the game it'd be '05 THK all over again, only THK would be HM.
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Anyway to the OP, QQ moar pl0x *yawn*
Day Trooper
Until the latest SF update, like everyone else with eles, I used SF to do UW clears. I told myself - 'No way will ANet nerf SF to where only sins can maintain it, right? That would make UW a 'sin-only' zone lol!' (except for the token necro to help clear Forgotten Vale ofc).
And here we are - UW is now either have a sin primary or 'GTFO n00b.'
Not that I'm QQ'ing. Luckily I had already gotten more than my fill of UW clears - and if I really want to keep doing UW I can just create a Sin anyways.
It does beg the question, though, of why ANet continues to make SF THE elite skill of choice? I'm ok with SF as it is - just too bad that other skills pale in comparison to it. Like being an ele - obby flesh would work great in UW - if only the stinkin' 50% movement speed reduction was removed QQ.
Perhaps this is one way ANet can deal with SF - by making other professions' elites at least somewhat comparable - enough to where pugs would take a variety of professions and not just permas...
And here we are - UW is now either have a sin primary or 'GTFO n00b.'
Not that I'm QQ'ing. Luckily I had already gotten more than my fill of UW clears - and if I really want to keep doing UW I can just create a Sin anyways.
It does beg the question, though, of why ANet continues to make SF THE elite skill of choice? I'm ok with SF as it is - just too bad that other skills pale in comparison to it. Like being an ele - obby flesh would work great in UW - if only the stinkin' 50% movement speed reduction was removed QQ.
Perhaps this is one way ANet can deal with SF - by making other professions' elites at least somewhat comparable - enough to where pugs would take a variety of professions and not just permas...
Copenhagen Master
Why kill the skill, just change it were it can't be maintain all the damn time. I think I see his point I mean 1 char being invulnerable all the time does seem like a cheat to him (we all know it isn't) but the concept is the same it is godmode basically. I miss the old days of actually earning the good stuff, and farming for the good stuff the hard way. IMO SF help destroy GW economy not saying it did it on its own though
BabyJ
[shadow form] is the replacement for [ursan blessing]
kill it already
kill it already
goodrix
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robbert Monga
And why all this? Just so somebody could farm supposedly rare items all day long? Screw that, I already have a job, I don't need another one. I want entertainment of playing. |
I think you have unrealistic expectation of a game community. People will always choose the easiest way. Most will enjoy it too. What was before ursan? trinity? What is after ursan? cryway?
Plain qq. Not getting anywhere with it. Elite areas will always have niche counters because of the way they are designed. (also look at urgoz and deep which are nearly empty)
toocooltang
SF and cryway is the latest xxxWAY in the game. Once it gets nerfed all the people that run it will QQ until someone that actually _KNOWS_ the game comes up with a good team and it will make its way to guru/wiki. Then everyone will QQ over that build being gimmicky.
Slash From The Shadows
ok, i know that someone might flame about it for sure, but, exemple : sf is a skill, and anet can't just delete it, or kill it, as then the game won't be balanced.think about it, all professions got an utility, warrior, high health, armor etc, ele, high damage AoE etc, and so on with all others. if anet kills sf, they kill 80% of the PvE sin builds.ppl like me, who got sick of perma and all, went to other stuff. mission, town running and other services, ppl should think about it ^^.
EDIT: i think anet should return sf to what it was: 10e,1c,60r.
the old version, of 17 seconds at 12 shadow arts, and no less % damage, this is what i think, if sf needs to be changed, what effect you guys would think off huh?
EDIT: i think anet should return sf to what it was: 10e,1c,60r.
the old version, of 17 seconds at 12 shadow arts, and no less % damage, this is what i think, if sf needs to be changed, what effect you guys would think off huh?
Latham
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robbert Monga
Whats the point of all those supposed challenges if you just include cheat code to come with it? The whole concept of perma Shadow Form is just that - a cheat. How can one enjoy game by cheating all the way is beyond me.
On a flip side, we have a player base degraded to unbelievable lows due to the use of cheats. The story of joining perma group became a story of watching people fail at basic things. Its all about lowering standards. Once you did that, people suddenly became bad... and I mean BAD. All the idiocy and arrogance surfaced, because playing with 3 skills on your bar does not require anything more. |
On a more prospective note, did you even consider going on a none perma group ? I'll give you it , that they are few and far between, maybe join a guild/alliance that specializes in 'normal' builds.
And all perma groups being 'fail at basic things', and 'idiocy and arrogance surfaced', It doesn't take skill to use the builds, But on elite, proper ( Organized ? ) It takes tremendous player co-operation, communication skills, to plow through DoA HM in less than 1 Hour. I would love to see the day that a pug group manages a challenge like that, getting a reasonable time. So stop whining and zip it, Thanks.
slowerpoke
consumables and pve skills show anet care not for balance
and while gimmick builds are the most powerful, players will use them
the original sf buff was a mistake on their part, but the resultant qq if it was fixed make it not worth reverting for them
and while gimmick builds are the most powerful, players will use them
the original sf buff was a mistake on their part, but the resultant qq if it was fixed make it not worth reverting for them
upier
Quote:
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Originally Posted by [DE]
After much research I've discovered PvE is boring even when you aren't abusing all the gimmicky skills in the game.
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If you keep on kicking a guy in the nuts, then don't expect him to give you the time of your life ...
toocooltang
[QUOTE=Xx Monkin xX;4416159
On a more prospective note, did you even consider going on a none perma group ? I'll give you it , that they are few and far between, maybe join a guild/alliance that specializes in 'normal' builds.[/QUOTE]
My guild runs a balanced build in DOA, we only run it in NM though because of the silly area of effects in each area
(-2nrg/50% chance to miss..etc)
[QUOTE=Xx Monkin xX;4416159
It doesn't take skill to use the builds, But on elite, proper ( Organized ? ) It takes tremendous player co-operation, communication skills, to plow through DoA HM in less than 1 Hour.[/QUOTE]
I agree with your statement 100%. If you have a team full of people with cry and a perma tank, you should DOA in less than an hour. It takes us about 1.5hrs in NM with some heros and some people.
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/7...h36minsxu7.jpg
http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/2104/gw112iw4.jpg
http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=doaqo0.jpg
On a more prospective note, did you even consider going on a none perma group ? I'll give you it , that they are few and far between, maybe join a guild/alliance that specializes in 'normal' builds.[/QUOTE]
My guild runs a balanced build in DOA, we only run it in NM though because of the silly area of effects in each area
(-2nrg/50% chance to miss..etc)[QUOTE=Xx Monkin xX;4416159
It doesn't take skill to use the builds, But on elite, proper ( Organized ? ) It takes tremendous player co-operation, communication skills, to plow through DoA HM in less than 1 Hour.[/QUOTE]
I agree with your statement 100%. If you have a team full of people with cry and a perma tank, you should DOA in less than an hour. It takes us about 1.5hrs in NM with some heros and some people.
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/7...h36minsxu7.jpg
http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/2104/gw112iw4.jpg
http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=doaqo0.jpg
aapo
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robbert Monga
And why all this? Just so somebody could farm supposedly rare items all day long? Screw that, I already have a job, I don't need another one. I want entertainment of playing.
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kostolomac
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MirkoTeran
And to put something on the fire: Kill SF. Kill PvE-only skills. Kill PvP/PvE split. Nerf cons. (did I forget something?)
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Quote:
| After much research I've discovered PvE is boring even when you aren't abusing all the gimmicky skills in the game. If cryway and SF disappeared people would move back to tank'n'spank or something dumb like that. If every gimmick was out of the game it'd be '05 THK all over again, only THK would be HM. |
Dzjudz
Lol does anybody use perma shadow form for serious PVE'ing? I thought it was only viable for certain farms, i.e. Voltaic Spear farm, raptorfarm, etc. Permasinning is nowhere near useful for normal PVE play, it puts so much strain on your energy you can't even get dagger attack chains off and your damage is restricted too! I've never come across a PVE PUG (and with PVE PUG I don't mean a FARM PUG) that uses a permasin.
A11Eur0
I've noticed a huge double-standard in the posts in this thread compared to the rest of Guru.
He doesn't like shadow form and cryway, so he wants it killed. You guys say that people telling him to get a guild and do groups the regular way are just QQ'ing because they want their "god-mode". Therefore, he's QQ'ing because he wants to PUG his elite missions and whatnot. You're supporting his argument that he can't get into a PUG because it's full of SF-cryers, yet EVERY OTHER THREAD ABOUT PUGS has people posting up saying that pugs are fail, don't pug, hero/hench is better....etc etc etc.
Make up your minds. Run a pug and do what the pug wants to do, or join a guild based on running something other than the status-quo such as TAM, or just don't do it at all if you're too lazy.
People being too lazy to get a group of like-minded individuals together QQ because they can't get into a group to do something, so they bitch and moan all over forums and pretty much oil the squeaky wheel enough so shit gets nerfed, ruining the fun for those who aren't so "noble", or those who don't have the hours it takes to do things balanced-way. It's ridiculous.
He doesn't like shadow form and cryway, so he wants it killed. You guys say that people telling him to get a guild and do groups the regular way are just QQ'ing because they want their "god-mode". Therefore, he's QQ'ing because he wants to PUG his elite missions and whatnot. You're supporting his argument that he can't get into a PUG because it's full of SF-cryers, yet EVERY OTHER THREAD ABOUT PUGS has people posting up saying that pugs are fail, don't pug, hero/hench is better....etc etc etc.
Make up your minds. Run a pug and do what the pug wants to do, or join a guild based on running something other than the status-quo such as TAM, or just don't do it at all if you're too lazy.
People being too lazy to get a group of like-minded individuals together QQ because they can't get into a group to do something, so they bitch and moan all over forums and pretty much oil the squeaky wheel enough so shit gets nerfed, ruining the fun for those who aren't so "noble", or those who don't have the hours it takes to do things balanced-way. It's ridiculous.
Robbert Monga
Well... to answer some concerns in the replies:
1) Why don't I do it a different way?
Well... why don't you stuff a dynamite stick in your bum and jump off the roof? Ya, because its stupid. Just because I can do something doesn't mean I should do it or like it... which is the major point in my OP.
To add to that - I don't have many friends that do PvE. And it is pretty hard to form a non-standard group because pugs in their utter ignorance will just laugh at you.
2) It is still hard to do elite areas even with cheats?
It is, but still possible. Thats why people do it anyway. Mostly because once in their lifetime they somehow managed to get on guild group run an get a record time, and now they proud of it for the rest of their life, and will remind about it every to group they join.
Bottom line is - cheats promote bad play and superegos. SF really didn't make average run any faster or easier... challenges of the game just shifted into challenges of dealing with idiots.
EDIT: oh yes, specifically to those who fail at reading: I can play cryer.
1) Why don't I do it a different way?
Well... why don't you stuff a dynamite stick in your bum and jump off the roof? Ya, because its stupid. Just because I can do something doesn't mean I should do it or like it... which is the major point in my OP.
To add to that - I don't have many friends that do PvE. And it is pretty hard to form a non-standard group because pugs in their utter ignorance will just laugh at you.
2) It is still hard to do elite areas even with cheats?
It is, but still possible. Thats why people do it anyway. Mostly because once in their lifetime they somehow managed to get on guild group run an get a record time, and now they proud of it for the rest of their life, and will remind about it every to group they join.
Bottom line is - cheats promote bad play and superegos. SF really didn't make average run any faster or easier... challenges of the game just shifted into challenges of dealing with idiots.
EDIT: oh yes, specifically to those who fail at reading: I can play cryer.
A11Eur0
Then don't deal with the idiots! You made the choice, you saddled that pony by putting yourself into a PUG situation. It's not Anet's fault that people are stupid. SF didn't make people stupid. It just gave stupid people something they can do.
In the same vein, it gave casual players the ability to get things they like/want/need easier. Another double-standard I've seen...QQ because it's not skill>time anymore with all the grind titles and money sinks, but want to nerf the things that make this grind faster/easier/nonexistent. MAKE UP YOUR MINDS.
In the same vein, it gave casual players the ability to get things they like/want/need easier. Another double-standard I've seen...QQ because it's not skill>time anymore with all the grind titles and money sinks, but want to nerf the things that make this grind faster/easier/nonexistent. MAKE UP YOUR MINDS.
BenjZee
ive always been 'perma pve'......not much of a pvp fan
lilraceangel3
i am srsly tired of ppl QQing all the time about this nerf or that nerf. You dont like the nerf, dont play PvE or find a way around it. the game isnt about button mashing, its about finding the most DPS for your class. experiment, try other skills, quit whining!
Raku Clayman
I've never done Perma. I don't even know what the build is. If the people using it are as obnoxious and unskilled as the Ursans, I want no part of it. In fact, I haven't done anything except H and H for a while and I haven't been with an a-hoe or a rage quitter since. Soon, A-net will nerf it like they've done with every other flavor of the month. As far as I'm concerned, nothing beats a balanced skill set with a balanced group.
Skyy High
Simple question, to all those who find perma-SF farms so "fun": would you be doing endless numbers of UWSC day after day if you weren't being rewarded for it? If not, guess what, you're not playing for fun.
kostolomac
SF can be fun. Aggro the biggest mob you can find , /dance and listen "can't touch this" from MC Hammer. It made me lol a couple of times
A11Eur0
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Skyy High
Simple question, to all those who find perma-SF farms so "fun": would you be doing endless numbers of UWSC day after day if you weren't being rewarded for it? If not, guess what, you're not playing for fun.
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Would you play GW at all if you couldn't save your progress?
Completing the story, getting stuff done, getting new armor and weapons, they're all "rewards" for time spent in a game.
I wouldn't farm if the rewards weren't there. I wouldn't play GW if all characters looked the same and there was no end-game content, and I didn't get anything for it. I find it "fun" to get the swag that I'm farming for. The farming is a means to an end. It's just a faster, less-grindy means. If you want a max title, if you find it fun to go for GWAMM, be prepared to spend the time.
Forgotton200
SF is so OP'd even naruto can't believe it.
here to troll
Shadow Form: Elite Form. For x-y seconds you have a 50% chance to block all attacks and you have a +z% chance to land a critical hit. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds.
gg.
gg.
Klem Da Aussie
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Reflect
yup! destroy the SF! |
[DE]
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lilraceangel3
i am srsly tired of ppl QQing all the time about this nerf or that nerf. You dont like the nerf, dont play PvE or find a way around it. the game isnt about button mashing, its about finding the most DPS for your class. experiment, try other skills, quit whining!
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Latham
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Skyy High
Simple question, to all those who find perma-SF farms so "fun": would you be doing endless numbers of UWSC day after day if you weren't being rewarded for it? If not, guess what, you're not playing for fun.
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