Was messing around with build ideas again, and thought up a 2 man assassin build, this was my initial idea:
[build prof=A/Me box daggermastery=12+1+1 criticalstrikes=11+1 deadlyarts=6+1][palm strike][trampling ox][falling lotus strike][twisting fangs][death blossom][arcane mimicry][resurrection signet][/build]
[build prof=A/Me box daggermastery=12+1+1 criticalstrikes=11+1 deadlyarts=6+1][arcane mimicry][trampling ox][falling lotus strike][twisting fangs][death blossom][assassin's promise][resurrection signet][/build]
use arcane mimicry to copy each other's elites then run through chain. Place AP, and when foe dies recharge skills including arcane mimicry so you can repeat chain.
obvious problem is that there are only 2 skills in that bar that would really need recharging that way. second, no IAS. thirdly, if the copied AP fails then it's a long wait for another, and if AP fails on the copied Palm Stike then that's lost for a while too.
so I was thinking of maybe using that tactic on [temple strike], inflicts blind and daze plus with an attacking bar and AP it will hopefully have a much quicker recharge, especially if both sins attack same target. would a bar based around that idea be worth it?
Double Sin Build
Wasted Days
Vann Borakul
AP wouldn't work for both sins if you attack the same target.
Wasted Days
you mean if you both cast AP (one normal and one copied version) on the same target, attack and kill, AP won't work? forgive me if i'm being dumb, but why?
Dmitri3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vann Borakul
AP wouldn't work for both sins if you attack the same target.
It would.
12 chars
12 chars
bungusmaximus
I wouldn't put twisting fangs on both assassins if you want to spike the same target, the effects will be redundant, energy shouldn't be a problem, and recharge neither so I would ditch assassins promise alltogether. You can chain KD's with the 2 copies of trampling, but since trampling only requires foes to be crippled one copy of Palm Strike should suffice.
Palm strike on one sin and another elite on the other might do well imho, no need to copy the elites with arcane mimicry.
Somewhere I'm missing a poison, maybe add falling spider instead of falling lotus and give assa 2 a cheaper dual attack?
Also, block will screw you over, so wild blow on one of the sins doesn't hurt, signet of malice is also pretty amazing on a palm strike bar imho, the more chance you get to get a clean spike off the better.
Palm strike on one sin and another elite on the other might do well imho, no need to copy the elites with arcane mimicry.
Somewhere I'm missing a poison, maybe add falling spider instead of falling lotus and give assa 2 a cheaper dual attack?
Also, block will screw you over, so wild blow on one of the sins doesn't hurt, signet of malice is also pretty amazing on a palm strike bar imho, the more chance you get to get a clean spike off the better.
Panais
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wasted Days
you mean if you both cast AP (one normal and one copied version) on the same target, attack and kill, AP won't work? forgive me if i'm being dumb, but why?
its a hex
when the 2nd sin casts it the first one will be removed so only 1 sin will get the benefits of AP
when the 2nd sin casts it the first one will be removed so only 1 sin will get the benefits of AP
Dmitri3
bungusmaximus
Interesting theory, I'll test it when I get home, but mind you, assassins promise blows monkey balls in PvP. That is, IF you wanna use the build for PvP, I'm not sure about that ofc, but KD chaining sounds very PvP-ish to me.
Dmitri3
It's not a theory, it's a fact.
I'm not talking about build, it's too much trouble for the results it's gonna provide. And bad things happen if the target doesn't die. Functionality of the skill is another story however. Please test it before you say it doesn't work.
I'm not talking about build, it's too much trouble for the results it's gonna provide. And bad things happen if the target doesn't die. Functionality of the skill is another story however. Please test it before you say it doesn't work.
Wasted Days
Quote:
Originally Posted by bungusmaximus
and recharge neither so I would ditch assassins promise alltogether
this is why i asked whether a build [temple strike] would be worth it. the whole point of the two sins with AP was to copy each others elite and have AP recharge arcane mimicry (i'm working on the assumption that when it recharges the skills, it will recharge AM not the AP copy). Attackin the same target isn't necessary, just thought you'd get a quicker use out of AP.
possibly something like
[golden fox strike][temple strike][twisting fangs][arcane mimicry][critical eye][resurrection signet]
[golden lotus strike][arcane mimicry][twisting fangs][assassin's promise][critical eye][resurrection signet]
plus some other attack skills/energy management. AP to recharge skills, Temple strike for dazed and blindess, twisting fangs for cover conditions. Would be just as pointless attacking same target with this build
if AP is naf in PvP then this is a PvE build though spose it could work in AB, lot's of things die in there quickly, esp minions.
could also combine the first one with an AP nuker http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:E/..._Promise_Nuker
possibly something like
[golden fox strike][temple strike][twisting fangs][arcane mimicry][critical eye][resurrection signet]
[golden lotus strike][arcane mimicry][twisting fangs][assassin's promise][critical eye][resurrection signet]
plus some other attack skills/energy management. AP to recharge skills, Temple strike for dazed and blindess, twisting fangs for cover conditions. Would be just as pointless attacking same target with this build
if AP is naf in PvP then this is a PvE build
though spose it could work in AB, lot's of things die in there quickly, esp minions.could also combine the first one with an AP nuker http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:E/..._Promise_Nuker
Wasted Days
ok, fair enough 
stanzhao
i'm not sure if this is still the case, but a while ago, me and a friend ran an ele bar with the same intentions of stealing each others skills to run the same bar.
i think it was something along the lines of
[skill]Searing flames[/skill][skill]arcane echo[/skill][skill]glowing gaze[/skill][skill]liquid flame[/skill][skill]fire attunement[/skill][skill]arcane mimicry[/skill][skill]glyph of lesser energy[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]
[skill]arcane mimicry[/skill][skill]arcane echo[/skill][skill]glowing gaze[/skill][skill]liquid flame[/skill][skill]fire attunement[/skill][skill]elemental attunement[/skill][skill]glyph of lesser energy[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]
ok, now the problem was, that sometimes he would get 2 copies of ele attunement because somehow he would copy the elite skill i copied off of him and same thing happened for me sometimes. i dont know if this has been fixed or there is some way to counter it, but it was a problem we came across anyways.
and... the recharge sucked ass with echo etc, but we were just messing around
i think it was something along the lines of
[skill]Searing flames[/skill][skill]arcane echo[/skill][skill]glowing gaze[/skill][skill]liquid flame[/skill][skill]fire attunement[/skill][skill]arcane mimicry[/skill][skill]glyph of lesser energy[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]
[skill]arcane mimicry[/skill][skill]arcane echo[/skill][skill]glowing gaze[/skill][skill]liquid flame[/skill][skill]fire attunement[/skill][skill]elemental attunement[/skill][skill]glyph of lesser energy[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]
ok, now the problem was, that sometimes he would get 2 copies of ele attunement because somehow he would copy the elite skill i copied off of him and same thing happened for me sometimes. i dont know if this has been fixed or there is some way to counter it, but it was a problem we came across anyways.
and... the recharge sucked ass with echo etc, but we were just messing around
Wasted Days
whilst on the topic of double sin builds, i was trying to use mimicry with a shadow form build and failed miserably. but was thinking that if 2 SF's teamed up they could run areas a lot faster, assuming they were running it for other players. for example
2 x[build prof=A/Me box shadowarts=12+3+1 Illusionmagic=12 deadlyarts=3+3][shadow form][dwarven stability][dark escape][illusion of haste][return][death's retreat][deadly paradox][/build]
with 20% enchant daggers/staff you should get shadow form to last 25 seconds
1st assassin: Shadow Form>Dwarven Stability>Dark Escape>Illusion of haste (reapplying when necessary) then runs whilst second assassin waits.
after 19 seconds (i.e. when shadow form is about to end on first assassin) second assassin cast SF, DS, Dark Escape and shadow steps to 1st using return. Once the 2nd Assass steps to the 1st, the 1st uses death's retreat to step one of the waiting allies and heal. the 1st uses deadly paradox with DS to recharge SF. When SF is about to run out on 2nd assassin the process is repeated again. Whilst probably more convienent on a single assassin, by doing it this way you can maintain a 50% speed increase (33% from DE, 25% from IoH), only stopping to re-apply IoH, plus there's no down time from shadow form. I'm working on the basis that shadow stepping/teleporting doesn't have a specified ranger (nothing is mentioned on wiki)
The main problem is if the running assassin steps back to early, or dies (which is a problem with any running build), then you have to start over. might be easier to swap out as soon as SF finishes recharging
2 x[build prof=A/Me box shadowarts=12+3+1 Illusionmagic=12 deadlyarts=3+3][shadow form][dwarven stability][dark escape][illusion of haste][return][death's retreat][deadly paradox][/build]
with 20% enchant daggers/staff you should get shadow form to last 25 seconds
1st assassin: Shadow Form>Dwarven Stability>Dark Escape>Illusion of haste (reapplying when necessary) then runs whilst second assassin waits.
after 19 seconds (i.e. when shadow form is about to end on first assassin) second assassin cast SF, DS, Dark Escape and shadow steps to 1st using return. Once the 2nd Assass steps to the 1st, the 1st uses death's retreat to step one of the waiting allies and heal. the 1st uses deadly paradox with DS to recharge SF. When SF is about to run out on 2nd assassin the process is repeated again. Whilst probably more convienent on a single assassin, by doing it this way you can maintain a 50% speed increase (33% from DE, 25% from IoH), only stopping to re-apply IoH, plus there's no down time from shadow form. I'm working on the basis that shadow stepping/teleporting doesn't have a specified ranger (nothing is mentioned on wiki)
The main problem is if the running assassin steps back to early, or dies (which is a problem with any running build), then you have to start over. might be easier to swap out as soon as SF finishes recharging
P A L P H R A M O N D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmitri3
I'm sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about.
He is right, you can't have multiple copies of one hex on the same enemy. Can you have multiple versions of Mark of Pain (for example) from different players stack on an enemy, causing them all to trigger from physical damage dealt? Don't think so.
This is from the Wiki:
"Multiple copies of the same skill will not stack with each other. However, the beneficial effect of Hex spells that provide a bonus to the caster, such as Life Siphon do stack, so 3 copies of life siphon on different monsters will give 3...9 pips of health regeneration. 3 copies of Life Siphon on the same monster will give no more than 3 pips of health regeneration to the caster and no more than 3 pips health degeneration to the target because the hex itself doesn't stack, only its side-effect. Hex stacks are commonly used to avoid having the important hex removed, for example a curses Necro may cast Faintheartedness first, then Reaper's Mark and finally Parasitic Bond. This normally means that Parasitic Bond and Reaper's Mark have to be removed before Faintheartedness can be."
The "side-effect" would only stack if you had AP (of Life Siphon, like in the example) on multiple enemies at once. So basically, you would need to have different targets for your respective AP's to get the benefit of both.
This is from the Wiki:
"Multiple copies of the same skill will not stack with each other. However, the beneficial effect of Hex spells that provide a bonus to the caster, such as Life Siphon do stack, so 3 copies of life siphon on different monsters will give 3...9 pips of health regeneration. 3 copies of Life Siphon on the same monster will give no more than 3 pips of health regeneration to the caster and no more than 3 pips health degeneration to the target because the hex itself doesn't stack, only its side-effect. Hex stacks are commonly used to avoid having the important hex removed, for example a curses Necro may cast Faintheartedness first, then Reaper's Mark and finally Parasitic Bond. This normally means that Parasitic Bond and Reaper's Mark have to be removed before Faintheartedness can be."
The "side-effect" would only stack if you had AP (of Life Siphon, like in the example) on multiple enemies at once. So basically, you would need to have different targets for your respective AP's to get the benefit of both.
Dmitri3
Quote:
Originally Posted by P A L P H R A M O N D
He is right, you can't have multiple copies of one hex on the same enemy. Can you have multiple versions of Mark of Pain (for example) from different players stack on an enemy, causing them all to trigger from physical damage dealt? Don't think so.
wiki Sorry, you don't know what you're talking about either.
Test it before posting please.
wiki Sorry, you don't know what you're talking about either.
Test it before posting please.
P A L P H R A M O N D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmitri3
Sorry, you don't know what you're talking about either.
Test it before posting please. What is your proof then? Is AP unique among hexes?
And this is from the official site:
"Renewing Duration of Conditions, Enchantments, and Hexes
If you cast the same Enchantment twice on a single character, that character doesn't receive twice the benefit. Instead, the duration of that Enchantment resets. Let's look at the old standby, Healing Breeze, as an example. Say it lasts ten seconds. You cast it on yourself. You wait six seconds, so it has four seconds left before it expires. Then, you cast it on yourself again. Instead of two Healing Breezes, you now have one that has reset itself back to ten seconds. So you get a small benefit from recasting Enchantments, but in terms of saving Energy, it's better to wait until just before the Enchantment ends or until it fully expires before recasting."
So, either AP is unique, and the monster has multiple copies of the same hex icon on the side of his / her hypothetical screen and the official site is wrong (of course, not impossible) or AP behaves the way all other hexes do and the most recently cast copy takes priority and simply replaces the previous version, so-called "renewing duration" and the second caster receives the benefit from AP. The first person to cast AP would not have gotten the benefit because their hex was removed before the death of the target.
Test it before posting please. What is your proof then? Is AP unique among hexes?
And this is from the official site:
"Renewing Duration of Conditions, Enchantments, and Hexes
If you cast the same Enchantment twice on a single character, that character doesn't receive twice the benefit. Instead, the duration of that Enchantment resets. Let's look at the old standby, Healing Breeze, as an example. Say it lasts ten seconds. You cast it on yourself. You wait six seconds, so it has four seconds left before it expires. Then, you cast it on yourself again. Instead of two Healing Breezes, you now have one that has reset itself back to ten seconds. So you get a small benefit from recasting Enchantments, but in terms of saving Energy, it's better to wait until just before the Enchantment ends or until it fully expires before recasting."
So, either AP is unique, and the monster has multiple copies of the same hex icon on the side of his / her hypothetical screen and the official site is wrong (of course, not impossible) or AP behaves the way all other hexes do and the most recently cast copy takes priority and simply replaces the previous version, so-called "renewing duration" and the second caster receives the benefit from AP. The first person to cast AP would not have gotten the benefit because their hex was removed before the death of the target.
Dmitri3
Quote:
Originally Posted by P A L P H R A M O N D
What is your proof then? Is AP unique among hexes?
No. Degen, damage doesn't stack and etc. But hexes from which you gain something, energy, recharge, health regen stack and work.
Once again, I don't need proof cause you didn't even bother test it by yourself.
Once again, I don't need proof cause you didn't even bother test it by yourself.
Spider Osiris
The result will be ONE AP hex on the target, but all characters who used AP will gain the positive benefits. (:
Easy.
Edit: All though... on the wiki talk page for AP someone has said "multiple people can cast this on one target - they act as separate hexes (and can be cured one by one) "
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Talk:...in%27s_Promise
Easy.
Edit: All though... on the wiki talk page for AP someone has said "multiple people can cast this on one target - they act as separate hexes (and can be cured one by one) "
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Talk:...in%27s_Promise
P A L P H R A M O N D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmitri3
No. Degen, damage doesn't stack and etc. But hexes from which you gain something, energy, recharge, health regen stack and work.
Once again, I don't need proof cause you didn't even bother test it by yourself. "Hexes" definitely work, like in the Life Siphon example, but only if you meet the requirements of the skill description, namely, "if target foe dies" or if you cast them on multiple foes.
So, if the foe uses Remove Hex or any other similar skill before the hexed foe dies, no one gets any benefit. Similarly, if the hex is removed (like enchantments) by another copy being cast (which isn't a replacement so much as a renewing of duration) then the same thing applies.
"If a target has a particular Hex with a bunch of covers stacked on top and you recast that same Hex to reset its duration, it moves to the far right of the stack because the game treats it as a new Hex (the most recently applied). Now, you have to bury it again under some cover Hexes, otherwise your target can remove it easily."
Once again, I don't need proof cause you didn't even bother test it by yourself. "Hexes" definitely work, like in the Life Siphon example, but only if you meet the requirements of the skill description, namely, "if target foe dies" or if you cast them on multiple foes.
So, if the foe uses Remove Hex or any other similar skill before the hexed foe dies, no one gets any benefit. Similarly, if the hex is removed (like enchantments) by another copy being cast (which isn't a replacement so much as a renewing of duration) then the same thing applies.
"If a target has a particular Hex with a bunch of covers stacked on top and you recast that same Hex to reset its duration, it moves to the far right of the stack because the game treats it as a new Hex (the most recently applied). Now, you have to bury it again under some cover Hexes, otherwise your target can remove it easily."
P A L P H R A M O N D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider Osiris
The result will be ONE AP hex on the target, but all characters who used AP will gain the positive benefits. (:
Easy.
So their hexes stay on, invisibly, each with their own duration? This is confusing. :-p
I assume the "you" in the skill description means the caster only?
Easy.
So their hexes stay on, invisibly, each with their own duration? This is confusing. :-p
I assume the "you" in the skill description means the caster only?
Tyla
If you hex an enemy with, say Parasitic Bond, and someone else does the same, the negative effects of what's on the skill are applied once and only once, and when removed it will remove both "copies". However, when the condition of said hex is fulfilled, such as an on-death hex, if that hex has a benefit to you, it will be applied to you and the other person who used it.
P A L P H R A M O N D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
P A L P H R A M O N D
I haven't been able to test it, but I will when I can get on GW. It just seems to me kind of odd that there would be multiple versions of the same hex on a foe, each with their own timer. And that by casting a new copy of it, a teammate might move your version of the hex higher up on the removal chain. I suppose AP is just a cast and forget skill so it doesn't matter.
Sorry about the rude comment, but as you are sick of my type, so I am sick of people who post something that can be construed as rude and have to fill in the rest of their oh-so-helpful post with "12 chars". Thanks for the explanation Dimitri and the Essence Bond example.
Sorry about the rude comment, but as you are sick of my type, so I am sick of people who post something that can be construed as rude and have to fill in the rest of their oh-so-helpful post with "12 chars". Thanks for the explanation Dimitri and the Essence Bond example.
Wasted Days
now we've got that out of the way, any chance on any feedback of the new build i suggested (the dual running one incase you forgot (not the palm strike one, which has now been put by the wayside)). good or bad, would just be nice to get an idea
(not the palm strike one, which has now been put by the wayside)). good or bad, would just be nice to get an idea
Super Igor
Why use this seriously? =/ Just use normal Palm Strike sin.