Palm strike nerfed 1/8/09. Still viable?

Sir Pandra Pierva

Sir Pandra Pierva

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

Sardelec yelling at Tenshi

Angels Of Strife

E/

I dunno
Pissing monks off in RA?
thats my personal fav with wastrel's collapse.

but ps wasn't nerfed at all. Sure no more 8 man cripple but the spammy chain's still there. why dont they just double the recharge and be good,

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

Nerfed? Nooo can barely call this a nerf less damage but it goes under [spirit bond] now...PALM STRIKE IS STILL ALIVE!

Proud Elitist

Proud Elitist

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2008

Unemployed

R/Mo

They nerfed the recharge too much.

It's easily interrupt-able, it is a tell for a knockdown, and it's easily diversion-ed.

With shadowsteps like Death's Charge, which have an aftercast, any monk should be able to deal.

It should be 6 at 10 att points and 7 sec at 14 att points.

petrorabbit

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Proud Elitist View Post
They nerfed the recharge too much.
What nerf are you talking about? The recharge is still 4 seconds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proud Elitist View Post
The nerf to the cripple effect. Hmm, ok.

12345

Dmitri3

Dmitri3

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Canada, almost got to see a polar bear... :P

*Sigh* Repeat after me: PS is fine.

Get [Recovery] up if you can't kite PS sins, then get cripple rune and cripple shield. Then just stand there unless your opponent is smart enough to kill the spirit first.

daraaksii

daraaksii

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

I don't know what nerf are you guys talking about. Now it's hitting through SB. Nerf? I would call it a frickin' buff.

Oh yeah, sorry. 2 PS sins can't cripple a whole team now. You guys are right about the cripple duration nerf. (not)

Proud Elitist

Proud Elitist

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2008

Unemployed

R/Mo

Cripple duration on PS has been nerfed too, that's what I'm talking about. It should have been, but not so severely. I'm saying that it should be buffed to 6 sec at 10 crit strikes and 7 at 14.

X Cytherea X

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

A/Mo

though it does alright as it is, i wouldnt mind palm strike's cripple being buffed the way "Proud Elitist" (lol) says. so it becomes semi-decent snaring and not just a spammy combo starter.

btw arent you that guy from incgamer? i cant believe you want a sin buff!

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abedeus View Post
Just because something has a counter doesn't mean it's balanced.

PS is almost as bad as SP pre-nerf. It doesn't teleport, but it deals damage, can be used every 4 seconds, slows down only by 16% less, you can immediately use a Dual Attack after PS...

Oh, and since you can't Spirit Bond against it, it makes it kinda... buffed now.

And what's Cripple good if you are going to get knocked down over and over? Or if single-target Cripple was getting removed so fast only bad teams couldn't deal with the condition.

The OPness of the skill is the skillbar compression. It's like adding a Poison condition to [Crippling Shot] or [Burning Arrow]. Sure you can remove Poison, it's only -4. But you don't need Apply Poison then.
I fixed it for you Ab.

Quote: Originally Posted by Proud Elitist View Post
Cripple duration on PS has been nerfed too, that's what I'm talking about. It should have been, but not so severely. I'm saying that it should be buffed to 6 sec at 10 crit strikes and 7 at 14. Who in this game runs 10 or 14 Critical Strikes on a dagger sin dude what are you talking about?! oO

moriz

moriz

??ber t??k-n??sh'??n

Join Date: Jan 2006

Canada

R/

Quote:
Who in this game runs 10 or 14 Critical Strikes on a dagger sin dude what are you talking about?! oO i run 10 in crit on my dagger sin.

Bobby2

Bobby2

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2007

Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards

[MaSS]

W/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by moriz
View Post
i run 10 in crit on my dagger sin. Only 9 Tactics? Damn, Weakness hurts enough as it is. My version has 9 Crit (and that's just because I'm not going to remove the rune for 10HP).

Dmitri3

Dmitri3

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Canada, almost got to see a polar bear... :P

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abedeus
View Post
Just because something has a counter doesn't mean it's balanced. Counters is what the game is about. If you want purely damage vs healing, then remove everything but warriors auto-attacking and monks with only healing prayers.

If you have only one specific counter, then yes. But it is not the case here.

Balky

Balky

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2006

UK

ARGH

R/Mo

Oh the wailing and the gnashing of the teeth over one skill roflmao

AKB48

AKB48

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2008

みやき町

Mo/A

Quote:
Originally Posted by petrorabbit
View Post
I don't now how you got "spamming spells" from my post. I was commenting more on ANET's approach to this skill. Because this isn't a compromise, it is a nerf, period. (Don't get me wrong, idk about the change, palm sins really isn't THAT powerful)

Bobby2

Bobby2

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Join Date: Jun 2007

Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards

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Quote:
Originally Posted by petrorabbit View Post
This is actually more of an appeasement to both sides of the Palm Strike fence.

Nerf it slightly so people can't complain about it being too good anymore, but not enough to bring it back down to useless status. It may not be a perfect compromise but it is one of the more fair ones in recent months.
Quote: Originally Posted by AKB48 View Post But remember: spamming spells(well in this case a off-hand skill but w/e) on an assassin = suicide, you will run out of gas long before you can kill your target. Quote: Originally Posted by petrorabbit
I don't now how you got "spamming spells" from my post. I was commenting more on ANET's approach to this skill.
Quote: Critical strikes says hi. A palm strike assassin can easily keep using palm strike and his attack skills without running out of energy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AKB48
Because this isn't a compromise, it is a nerf, period. (Don't get me wrong, idk about the change, palm sins really isn't THAT powerful) mi hed jus asplodud

Arkantos

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by AKB48 View Post
But remember: spamming spells(well in this case a off-hand skill but w/e) on an assassin = suicide, you will run out of gas long before you can kill your target.
[recovery] up if you can't kite PS sins, then get cripple rune and cripple shield. Then just stand there unless your opponent is smart enough to kill the spirit first. 1) Not everyone can go rt/x or x/rt.
2) Killing a spirit isn't hard.

It's a quite ineffective way to counter a palm strike assassin.

0 mesmerised 0

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2006

earth

non at tho moment

R/Rt

the damage isnt the problem its the recharge time

AKB48

AKB48

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2008

みやき町

Mo/A

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkantos View Post
Critical strikes says hi. A palm strike assassin can easily keep using palm strike and his attack skills without running out of energy. [recovery] up if you can't kite PS sins, then get cripple rune and cripple shield. Then just stand there unless your opponent is smart enough to kill the spirit first.

1) Not everyone can go rt/x or x/rt.
2) Killing a spirit isn't hard.
But not everyone is gonna bring a spirit for you to kill. (and you = easy target if you just kill spirits whenever you are low on energy cause the spirits are laid within the Rit's team's "sphere of influence"[can't think of another word]) And when I was talking about spamming palm strike, I meant if the monk put up a block so you can't KD him, since palm strike bypasses the block, you CAN use it to damage the monk, but the fast recharge makes spam hard to resist and BOOM, you energy goes off in an exponential decrease.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby2 View Post
mi hed jus asplodud Sorry, I don't speak Martian.

Arkantos

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

Quote:
But not everyone is gonna bring a spirit for you to kill. (and you = easy target if you just kill spirits whenever you are low on energy cause the spirits are laid within the Rit's team's "sphere of influence"[can't think of another word]) And when I was talking about spamming palm strike, I meant if the monk put up a block so you can't KD him, since palm strike bypasses the block, you CAN use it to damage the monk, but the fast recharge makes spam hard to resist and BOOM, you energy goes off in an exponential decrease. Yes, I'm very well aware of that. However, if you bothered to read the post I quoted, you'd see I was pointing out how bringing a spirit to counter a palm strike sin is quite ineffective.

Even with a block skill, some attacks are going to get through. But yes, if you keep spamming palm strike while getting most of your attacks blocked, you're going to start running out of energy. Of course that's considering you're bad and you don't switch targets.

It also seems that my last post was messed up, better fix it >.>

petrorabbit

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by AKB48 View Post
Because this isn't a compromise, it is a nerf, period. (Don't get me wrong, idk about the change, palm sins really isn't THAT powerful)
Hmm, you should have said so instead of bring this up.

Quote: Originally Posted by AKB48 View Post But remember: spamming spells(well in this case a off-hand skill but w/e) on an assassin = suicide, you will run out of gas long before you can kill your target. Don't know how you're commenting on compromise here.

Quote: Originally Posted by AKB48 View Post And when I was talking about spamming palm strike, I meant if the monk put up a block so you can't KD him, since palm strike bypasses the block, you CAN use it to damage the monk, but the fast recharge makes spam hard to resist and BOOM, you energy goes off in an exponential decrease. Thus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkantos View Post
Critical strikes says hi. A palm strike assassin can easily keep using palm strike and his attack skills without running out of energy. [Recovery] Sorry, my bad, the [Recovery] kinda messed me up, =p

Quote: The point is that, with 10 Crit, you can run nine in a sub class, or 10 in prime class, like deadly arts or shadow. Think Ranger. The reason for 14 crit for 7 sec duration (something that MIGHT be considered overpowered) would be because you would have to sac damage from Dagger Mastery in order to get it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by petrorabbit View Post
Don't know how you're commenting on compromise here. Ok, now you do, 现在滚蛋

AKB48

AKB48

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2008

みやき町

Mo/A

Quote:
Originally Posted by petrorabbit View Post
Me getting out does not make up for lack of coherency. My lack of coherency? Dude......whatever I am not even gonna bother arguing with you anymore. peace out.

(btw, i told you to gtfo....not just get out, that's 10 more years of Chinese lessons for ya)

petrorabbit

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by AKB48 View Post
My lack of coherency? Dude......whatever I am not even gonna bother arguing with you anymore. peace out. Peace!

10 years of chinese? That's nice. Next time, don't assume you can hide behind non-english comments.

Bobby2

Bobby2

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2007

Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards

[MaSS]

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Speaking Martian rawks, btw.

bungusmaximus

bungusmaximus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guild Of Handicrafted Products [MaSS]

W/Mo

Ontopic: and yes, palm strike sins are still obnoxious, thank goodness they're mostly ran by scrubs else things would suck really baedly.

I'm thinking more and more that it needs recharge up so sins don't have the insane bar-compression they have now.

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

Well alot of scrubs run it cuz they cant play anything else and its easy to run lets put it this way but a skilled player on a Palm sin is pretty deadly.

Also, STOP CALLING IT A NURF FFS it just got one less counter to it now lmao tis not a nurf tis liek a buff or sumptin.

bungusmaximus

bungusmaximus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guild Of Handicrafted Products [MaSS]

W/Mo

Lol @ piepel desekrating ze English language liek zat . It doesn't matter what we call it as long as it's dealt with accordingly. PS can become a viable option for assassins that isn't completely lame. They're already on the right way with the last nurf/buff/whatever.

Dmitri3

Dmitri3

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Canada, almost got to see a polar bear... :P

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor View Post
Well alot of scrubs run it cuz they cant play anything else and its easy to run lets put it this way but a skilled player on a Palm sin is pretty deadly.

Also, STOP CALLING IT A NURF FFS it just got one less counter to it now lmao tis not a nurf tis liek a buff or sumptin. Same as any other melee if he isn't shutdown. Also, one universal counter you forget: kiting.

Sigh. Fine, nerf PS, I don't care cause I hate running it, not that I do it very often anyway. Just don't write another QQ thread about how sins aren't viable in PvP afterwards. Pfft, like it's not gonna happen.

Proud Elitist

Proud Elitist

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2008

Unemployed

R/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor View Post
Who in this game runs 10 or 14 Critical Strikes on a dagger sin dude what are you talking about?! oO
Counters is what the game is about. Direct counters only work in open-ended games where you can scout the enemy, you prepare for the attack. You can't do this in Guild Wars, so it would be stupid to build the game around rock-paper-scissors gameplay.

So instead you need to balance it around what can universally be done in a match by individuals on a team. No "I" in team...

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by AKB48 View Post
Ok, now you do, 现在滚蛋 I think you're the one who needs to get out here, 但如果你沒有自己的協議,但。 (seem similar?)

X Cytherea X

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

A/Mo

Quote:
Also, STOP CALLING IT A NURF FFS it just got one less counter to it now lmao tis not a nurf tis liek a buff or sumptin. it does less damage than its previous version, every time, except against ONE skill. it's a nerf.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

It's a nerf or a buff depending on the given circumstances. It passes through Spirit Bond, cuts down time with Plague Touch and such... but its utility and damage has been lowered which isn't beneficial outside of that. However, you still land your Trampling Ox and that's all that matters.

AKB48

AKB48

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2008

みやき町

Mo/A

Quote:
Originally Posted by petrorabbit View Post
Peace!

10 years of chinese? That's nice. Next time, don't assume you can hide behind non-english comments.
I wasn't hiding behind non-English comments, the Chinese was merely a counterpart to the apsoloude w/e it is.(Asians = BIG gamers, think I don't know that?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla View Post
I think you're the one who needs to get out here, 但如果你沒有自己的協議,但。 (seem similar?)
Oh, I staying lol.

Also....I can't read traditional Chinese, type it in simplified, and alas I can't understand the last 2 words of your "但如果你沒有自己的協議,但". And, it didn't make too much sense to me either.