Aggressive Refrain - cracked armour -_-

Akimb0

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

Rt/N

15 Jan 2009 at 21:58 - 1

Are they ever going to fix Aggressive Refrain? I don't mind the -20 armour too much since I have a ranged weapon, but it's the fact that it puts a condition on you, which heroes / hench then try to repeatedly spam off you with condition removal, on top of it counting towards skills which can harm you ( e.g. iron palm ) ... I wonder if it would be possible to have it work like the -10 while attacking penalty certain weapons have :S Either way can people suggest alternatives (flail?) or ways to deal with this skill.

the savage nornbear

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2008

The Raging Cadavers [rage]

R/

15 Jan 2009 at 23:03 - 2

No they are not. It is well balanced.

Konig Des Todes

Ooo, pretty flower

Join Date: Jan 2008

Citadel of the Decayed

The Archivists' Sanctum [Lore]

N/

15 Jan 2009 at 23:03 - 3

[Aggressive Refrain]

Pros:
Maintainable +25% IAS
Echo (reapplied whenever a Chant or Shout ends) - easier to maintain
Can go on others

Cons:
Removable -20 armor
High energy cost

The skill needs some cons to it dude! I see nothing wrong with it, if you include a few shouts like [Anthem of Flame] and ["They're On Fire!"] you can eventually maintain it on a full party if you keep a shout ending every 10 or so seconds. So monks remove the cracked armor immediately, 5 energy for a IAS with minimal downsides.

Keep it how it is.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

15 Jan 2009 at 23:22 - 4

You don't even need the above, you could maintain it with "TNTF" at 12 Leadership.

It's a small price to pay considering how powerful the IAS is.

Zidane Ortef

Site Contributor

Join Date: Dec 2006

Martinsburg, WV

Scions of Carver [SCAR]/Trinity Of The Ascended [ToA]

W/

15 Jan 2009 at 23:33 - 5

A everlasting 33% IAS that can't be stripped with out the cracked armor penalty it would be imbalanced skill is fine as is.

Don't take singe target Condition removal use stuff like [Pure Was Li Ming]

ac1inferno

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

Boston

We D Shot Your Stances [GODS]

A/W

16 Jan 2009 at 04:03 - 6

Nothing wrong with [[Aggressive Refrain] as it is. Disable condition removal on your heroes and micro them. If it gave a -20 armor penalty without it being a condition, then Cracked Armor on top would do -40 armor.

turbo234

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2006

WI

Mo/

16 Jan 2009 at 04:42 - 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac1inferno

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Nothing wrong with [[Aggressive Refrain] as it is. Disable condition removal on your heroes and micro them. If it gave a -20 armor penalty without it being a condition, then Cracked Armor on top would do -40 armor. wouldn't the cracked armor not actually work since it can only bring al down to 60.

Bobby2

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2007

Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards

[MaSS]

W/E

16 Jan 2009 at 04:54 - 8

Originally Posted by ac1inferno

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Nothing wrong with [[Aggressive Refrain] as it is. Disable condition removal on your heroes and micro them. You don't need to micro [foul feast].

ac1inferno

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

Boston

We D Shot Your Stances [GODS]

A/W

16 Jan 2009 at 16:50 - 9

Originally Posted by turbo234 View Post

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wouldn't the cracked armor not actually work since it can only bring al down to 60.

Not every Paragon uses Survivor. Some use Centurion's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

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You don't need to micro [foul feast]. My heroes don't seem to like to use it unless I click it for them.

bungusmaximus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guild Of Handicrafted Products [MaSS]

W/Mo

16 Jan 2009 at 17:56 - 10

Maybe your heroes got too much to do already next to drawing condis? I always stick FF on an mm together with infuse conditions, works like a charm usually. All my olias needs to do is summon up a minion every now and then and remove hexes. Mind you that my mm's don't run death nova (impatient as I am I don't like waiting for olias every time).

As for AR, I hate the nerf, game-wise it's well balanced, but it just doesn't make any sense. I wouldn't know any other way to nurf it though, because you can't cancel it like frenzy, so applying an armor penalty or + damage would make even less sense and would be way too severe.

The only possible solution is splitting the skill PvE/PvP wise like many others. Apply cracked armor in PvP and leave it alone in PvE (Everything is broken in PvE anyways since the introduction of lolpve skills so meh)

My Lipgloss is Cool

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2007

My Computer

Band Of The H A W K

P/Mo

17 Jan 2009 at 03:08 - 11

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes View Post

View Post

[Aggressive Refrain]

Pros:
Maintainable +25% IAS
Echo (reapplied whenever a Chant or Shout ends) - easier to maintain
Can go on others

Cons:
Removable -20 armor
High energy cost

The skill needs some cons to it dude! I see nothing wrong with it, if you include a few shouts like [Anthem of Flame] and ["They're On Fire!"] you can eventually maintain it on a full party if you keep a shout ending every 10 or so seconds. So monks remove the cracked armor immediately, 5 energy for a IAS with minimal downsides.

Keep it how it is. Wait, what??

Calista Blackblood

Permanently Banned

Join Date: Oct 2007

Northern Ireland

Nowhere To Run Nowhere To [Hide]

N/

17 Jan 2009 at 03:24 - 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by My Lipgloss is Cool

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Wait, what?? Confusion: [mending refrain]

Bobby2

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2007

Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards

[MaSS]

W/E

17 Jan 2009 at 08:19 - 13

[mending], [frenzy], same thing.

Good eye

Arieon Ito

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2007

[One]

Rt/

21 Jan 2009 at 02:29 - 14

[smite condition] can be your friend and very effective AoE if you're worried about having a constant 'always on' condition.

Plus with Cracked Amor and [save yourselves!], that means you become the main squishy mobs will rush for. Don't really see the downside there.

And even if it's -20 armor, I trust you have a shield on? That's still 76 armor after cracked armor is applied.

MasterSasori

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2007

USA

[Thay]

R/Mo

21 Jan 2009 at 18:34 - 15

Originally Posted by Arieon Ito

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[smite condition] can be your friend and very effective AoE if you're worried about having a constant 'always on' condition.

Plus with Cracked Amor and [save yourselves!], that means you become the main squishy mobs will rush for. Don't really see the downside there.

And even if it's -20 armor, I trust you have a shield on? That's still 76 armor after cracked armor is applied.
I don't recall mobs swarming paras...

-20 is minimal compared to the extra IAS and the SY generated from it.

Arieon Ito

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2007

[One]

Rt/

22 Jan 2009 at 03:41 - 16

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

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I don't recall mobs swarming paras...

-20 is minimal compared to the extra IAS and the SY generated from it. Well, they do in my case since I H/H with all casters and I call/first strike targets. Zero front line = Midline and backline get swamped. Plus, mobs usually do change targets once SY! is up, everyone gets a higher armor rating than I have.

Most reapplications of cracked armor on my paragon during battles get converted into holy damage that the enemy warriors eat since they're fighting around me.

Bobby2

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2007

Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards

[MaSS]

W/E

22 Jan 2009 at 05:04 - 17

Originally Posted by Arieon Ito

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Well, they do in my case since I H/H with all casters and I call/first strike targets. Zero front line = Midline and backline get swamped. Plus, mobs usually do change targets once SY! is up, everyone gets a higher armor rating than I have.

Most reapplications of cracked armor on my paragon during battles get converted into holy damage that the enemy warriors eat since they're fighting around me. +1 for Racway!

MasterSasori

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2007

USA

[Thay]

R/Mo

27 Jan 2009 at 19:14 - 18

Originally Posted by Arieon Ito

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Well, they do in my case since I H/H with all casters and I call/first strike targets. Zero front line = Midline and backline get swamped. Plus, mobs usually do change targets once SY! is up, everyone gets a higher armor rating than I have.

Most reapplications of cracked armor on my paragon during battles get converted into holy damage that the enemy warriors eat since they're fighting around me.
Well if you use exclusively casters then it would be a different story. However, it is simple to bring one or two henches that are melee oriented.

Worse comes to worse, there is always TNTF which has saved me many times. Maybe experiment with different hero setups?

I recall a Paragon + Derv setup posted somewhere here on guru. Never had the chance to try it, but it looks quite promising, especially since you will be playing para. Synergy is always nice.

MisterB

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2005

Planet Earth, Sol system, Milky Way galaxy

[ban]

W/

28 Jan 2009 at 03:03 - 19

If you're really worked up about cracked armor from [[Aggressive Refrain], you could always use [[Purifying Finale], or micro a hero to maintain it on you. The cracked armor will never, or very rarely, be applied.

phan

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2006

phantasmagoria

28 Jan 2009 at 18:18 - 20

[foul feast] + [plague sending] + [damaageee!] = good spike

MasterSasori

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2007

USA

[Thay]

R/Mo

28 Jan 2009 at 22:36 - 21

Originally Posted by MisterB

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If you're really worked up about cracked armor from [[Aggressive Refrain], you could always use [[Purifying Finale], or micro a hero to maintain it on you. The cracked armor will never, or very rarely, be applied. Is it worth a skill slot for this? It probably isn't.