So, there has been a lot of talk about this balance nonsense, so I wonder, what do people expect a balanced skill to look like?
Personally, I think [[Grasping Earth] is one the most balanced skills out there, because it can be used offensively and defensively, has a duration that outlasts its recharge, is not really spammable, but recharges fast enough that its not too much of a worry if its removed, and its effect isn't terrifying, unlike [[Diversion].
Whats your opinion of a 'balanced' skill?
What do you think is a balanced skill?
Puebert
Proud Elitist
[Distracting Shot]
This is the ultimate balanced skill. It requires skill to use and has a highly favorable condition tacked onto it.
[Diversion]
You need to be able to predict when this will hit a favorable skill in order for it to work properly. Can be spammed, but is subject to interrupts and veil removal.
[Bulls Strike]
You need to predict when the player will move. And since it is a melee skill, it makes skill a requirement. Again, the conditions, if met, are highly favorable.
[Holy Veil]
I really don't think I have to explain this.
[Crippling Shot]
It is easily interrupt-able, if spammed, it will be easily Diversion'ed. A person can also easily dodge the shot. It doesn't allow added damage, so it can only provide to a team as a support skill. However, the shot lets players easily control movement, which is paramount in any good match.
[Shock]
If spammed, it will kill a person's energy. However, if used at the right times, will allow for easy kills.
This is the ultimate balanced skill. It requires skill to use and has a highly favorable condition tacked onto it.
[Diversion]
You need to be able to predict when this will hit a favorable skill in order for it to work properly. Can be spammed, but is subject to interrupts and veil removal.
[Bulls Strike]
You need to predict when the player will move. And since it is a melee skill, it makes skill a requirement. Again, the conditions, if met, are highly favorable.
[Holy Veil]
I really don't think I have to explain this.
[Crippling Shot]
It is easily interrupt-able, if spammed, it will be easily Diversion'ed. A person can also easily dodge the shot. It doesn't allow added damage, so it can only provide to a team as a support skill. However, the shot lets players easily control movement, which is paramount in any good match.
[Shock]
If spammed, it will kill a person's energy. However, if used at the right times, will allow for easy kills.
Gigashadow
Frenzy, because it scales with player skill; it is really good in the hands of a good player, and really bad in the hands of a bad player.
wtfisgoingon
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Proud Elitist
[Distracting Shot]
This is the ultimate balanced skill. It requires skill to use and has a highly favorable condition tacked onto it. [Diversion] You need to be able to predict when this will hit a favorable skill in order for it to work properly. Can be spammed, but is subject to interrupts and veil removal. [Bulls Strike] You need to predict when the player will move. And since it is a melee skill, it makes skill a requirement. Again, the conditions, if met, are highly favorable. [Holy Veil] I really don't think I have to explain this. [Crippling Shot] It is easily interrupt-able, if spammed, it will be easily Diversion'ed. A person can also easily dodge the shot. It doesn't allow added damage, so it can only provide to a team as a support skill. However, the shot lets players easily control movement, which is paramount in any good match. [Shock] If spammed, it will kill a person's energy. However, if used at the right times, will allow for easy kills. |
Mesmer in Need
A good skill that many people use, but still has a chance to fail at what it's supposed to do sometimes. Dshot can miss. Diversion Can be removed. Bull's can be blocked. A skill like Cry of Pain can fail, but really, how hard it is to apply one hex, and keep just long enough for cry to be able to go off.
Icy The Mage
To add to that list;
[Shield Bash] Because it requires no skill whatsoever to beat someone with no skill whatsoever, but if you're going to use it effectively, you need to be watching your opponent and trigger it, say, in the middle of an attack.
[Frenzy] For reasons explained above, good in the hands of a good player, bad in the hands of a bad player, as they won't cancel it when they're taking damage, prekite, etc...
[Resurrection Signet] For obvious reasons. Use it once someone dies. Everyone can use it. With it's prone-to-interruption cast time of 3 seconds, more experienced players will get out of range of mesmers (if possible) and use terrain to prevent rangers; from interrupting and/or disabling it.
[Power Drain][Leech Signet] These two skills are very balanced, giving you either a defensive or offensive role in interrupting skills, as well as providing you with energy. If you're not good at interrupting, you're wasting skill slots and/or wasting precious energy. You might want to go with the easier to use [Glyph of Lesser Energy].
[Mind Shock][Shock][Gale] All of these skills must be used in moderation for them to be effective. Not enough usage means a wasted skill slot, too much usage means a grayed-out blue bar which will hinder your capacity to do anything. Knowing how to balance: the time remaining in a match, skills that need to be interrupted, movement on the field, spikes, exhaustion, etc.. are all key in using these skills perfectly.
[Dash] In my opinion, THE most balanced skill in the game. It will kill your energy if you spam it, it only results in a net speed buff of around 20% faster, and it can be used either defensively, offensively, to trigger traps without taking damage, strafe fast moving projectiles (or projectiles at close range), break aggro (in pve, also Lolbalance in PvE) and more.
There's my opinion.
[Shield Bash] Because it requires no skill whatsoever to beat someone with no skill whatsoever, but if you're going to use it effectively, you need to be watching your opponent and trigger it, say, in the middle of an attack.
[Frenzy] For reasons explained above, good in the hands of a good player, bad in the hands of a bad player, as they won't cancel it when they're taking damage, prekite, etc...
[Resurrection Signet] For obvious reasons. Use it once someone dies. Everyone can use it. With it's prone-to-interruption cast time of 3 seconds, more experienced players will get out of range of mesmers (if possible) and use terrain to prevent rangers; from interrupting and/or disabling it.
[Power Drain][Leech Signet] These two skills are very balanced, giving you either a defensive or offensive role in interrupting skills, as well as providing you with energy. If you're not good at interrupting, you're wasting skill slots and/or wasting precious energy. You might want to go with the easier to use [Glyph of Lesser Energy].
[Mind Shock][Shock][Gale] All of these skills must be used in moderation for them to be effective. Not enough usage means a wasted skill slot, too much usage means a grayed-out blue bar which will hinder your capacity to do anything. Knowing how to balance: the time remaining in a match, skills that need to be interrupted, movement on the field, spikes, exhaustion, etc.. are all key in using these skills perfectly.
[Dash] In my opinion, THE most balanced skill in the game. It will kill your energy if you spam it, it only results in a net speed buff of around 20% faster, and it can be used either defensively, offensively, to trigger traps without taking damage, strafe fast moving projectiles (or projectiles at close range), break aggro (in pve, also Lolbalance in PvE) and more.
There's my opinion.
Axel Zinfandel
That's easy, just turn time back before factions.
There ya go, balanced skills.
There ya go, balanced skills.
Shayne Hawke
Balanced skills are the ones that average players suck at using and high tier players excel at utilized. Bull's, D-Shot, scores of Mesmer interrupts, and any such conditional skills are balanced, or at least more balanced than the large number of pure damaging skills that are available.
Abedeus
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel
That's easy, just turn time back before factions.
There ya go, balanced skills. |
And the uncapped IAS.
bungusmaximus
I'd also say a skill is balanced when it takes as much skill to use it as it takes to counter it.
Reverend Dr
I think a balanced skill is the OP's excuse to troll the forums.
Dmitri3
[Mark of Insecurity]
Cause balance is subjective.
Cause balance is subjective.
Killed u man
Lol at [Distracting Shot] being balanced...
This thread already lost...
This thread already lost...
Abedeus
How would you balance it even more?
DS is one of the most balanced skills unchanged for over 3 years.
DS is one of the most balanced skills unchanged for over 3 years.
Sniper22
[palm strike]
Ahahahah maybe not.
[Resurrection Signet] Ftw
Ahahahah maybe not.
[Resurrection Signet] Ftw
bungusmaximus
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Killed u man
Lol at [Distracting Shot] being balanced...
This thread already lost... |
Ranger X has to press the button on time and victim Y has to cancel his action on time.
Only multiple copies are ***** annoying
Rangers do too much damage these days, that's a bigger problem then interrupts imho.
Mr.Kotte
[shadow form] !!!!
No but serially... Pretty much Leech sig and Power Drain..
No but serially... Pretty much Leech sig and Power Drain..
pumpkin pie
A skill that when you use it does not affect another players.
Daenara
I would have to say Reversal of Fortune. Even though it is slightly outshadowed at the moment by patient spirit, (which has more to do with the fact that WoH > any other monk prot elite) I would say that its recharge and payoff are perfectly balanced.
Balance is a pretty subjective issue, as despite a few obvious skills (lolmarkofinsecurity) I think that synergy of skills has more of an impact. For instance Dshot by itself.. not so bad imo. But throw that in a bar with BA/Incendiary/Melandru's/whatever general ranger elite, + dshot, savage, natural stride, mending touch.. . that's when I start to wonder if the bar has too much compression etc. Buuut.. that should be a complete other post. >.>
Balance is a pretty subjective issue, as despite a few obvious skills (lolmarkofinsecurity) I think that synergy of skills has more of an impact. For instance Dshot by itself.. not so bad imo. But throw that in a bar with BA/Incendiary/Melandru's/whatever general ranger elite, + dshot, savage, natural stride, mending touch.. . that's when I start to wonder if the bar has too much compression etc. Buuut.. that should be a complete other post. >.>
Smurf Minions
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by wtfisgoingon
You mean reflexes? not skill, right?
|
credit
[frenzy]
that is all.
that is all.
faraaz
[Auspicious Incantation]
[Concussion Shot]
[Restore Condition]
[Savage Shot]
[Waste Not Want Not]
[Tease]
[Concussion Shot]
[Restore Condition]
[Savage Shot]
[Waste Not Want Not]
[Tease]
Puebert
I don't understand how I'm a troll. I'm just trying to see what some people say is balanced and what some say is imbalanced.
I gave reasons why I thought GE was balanced, and people are providing examples of why other skills are.
I was honestly curious, because I kinda thought DShot was overpowered.
I gave reasons why I thought GE was balanced, and people are providing examples of why other skills are.
I was honestly curious, because I kinda thought DShot was overpowered.
makosi
[Distracting Shot] is not balanced.
Some balanced skills, imo, are:
[Insidious Parasite] [Empathy] [Faintheartedness] [dwayna's kiss] [troll unguent] [cry of frustration] [purge signet] [twisting fangs] [spirit rift] [cruel spear] [disrupting throw] [sun and moon slash] [reversal of fortune] [infuse health] to name a few.
They have clear purposes and fulfil their roles in a satisfactory way without being too conditional, too flimsy or too strong. Then again skill balancing is more complex than individual skills.
Some balanced skills, imo, are:
[Insidious Parasite] [Empathy] [Faintheartedness] [dwayna's kiss] [troll unguent] [cry of frustration] [purge signet] [twisting fangs] [spirit rift] [cruel spear] [disrupting throw] [sun and moon slash] [reversal of fortune] [infuse health] to name a few.
They have clear purposes and fulfil their roles in a satisfactory way without being too conditional, too flimsy or too strong. Then again skill balancing is more complex than individual skills.
Winterclaw
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by bungusmaximus
I'd also say a skill is balanced when it takes as much skill to use it as it takes to counter it.
|
I see being balanced as a set of conditions that need to be met:
1. Is it useful enough, alone or with another skill, to warrant being placed on your bar?
2. Is it not so useful that you absolutely have to bring it on your bar?
3. It is counterable?
4. Can you counter it with one skill? In other words, it doesn't require multiple skills or classes to counter it at once... the other team doesn't have to build around stopping one skill.
I think those are some of the conditions, but there are probably more if I think about it.
FengShuiDove
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by makosi
[reversal of fortune]
|
Also, I tend to think a lot of the popular melee attacks are balanced fairly well, given that they have to be powerful enough to be used in spite of anti-melee Blind, blocking, etc.
[Eviscerate] and [Devastating Hammer] are good only when timed well and used well, [Twisting Fangs] is pretty strong at the end of a Sin chain, but to get there you have to go through a full chain or you waste it (i.e. Palm Strike --> Twisting Fangs is a waste of the skill). [Wounding Strike] however, is a bit unbalanced in my opinion. If the conditions were switched so that Bleeding was covered instead of Deep Wound so single condition removal skills like Dismiss could clean DW, it'd be balanced better.
In general, your easy to use, easy to counter skills, your strong but highly conditional skills, and your weaker, less counter-able or more spammable skills.
Bug John
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by bungusmaximus
I'd also say a skill is balanced when it takes as much skill to use it as it takes to counter it.
|
I think you have to consider the skill in its build to see if it's balanced or not, some skills can be broken when used with some primary attributes or some other skills
[distracting shot] not balanced ? it's a very good, well balanced skill, that requires skill to use
wtfisgoingon
It does not take skill to use dshot or bullstrike, predicting when someone will move does not equal skills.
I think the word you guys are looking for is "reflexes", it takes good reflexes to interrupt, not skill, predicting when someone will move or when someone will cast a spell does not equal skill at all, predicting is the same as guessing.
GW PvP does not require skill, it requires a sharp mind and quick thinking abilities, knowing what to do.
I think the word you guys are looking for is "reflexes", it takes good reflexes to interrupt, not skill, predicting when someone will move or when someone will cast a spell does not equal skill at all, predicting is the same as guessing.
GW PvP does not require skill, it requires a sharp mind and quick thinking abilities, knowing what to do.
byteme!
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by wtfisgoingon
It does not take skill to use dshot or bullstrike, predicting when someone will move does not equal skills.
I think the word you guys are looking for is "reflexes", it takes good reflexes to interrupt, not skill, predicting when someone will move or when someone will cast a spell does not equal skill at all, predicting is the same as guessing. GW PvP does not require skill, it requires a sharp mind and quick thinking abilities, knowing what to do. |
Fay Vert
Interesting that a few have said [distracting shot] is not balanced but fail to say why.
moriz
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by wtfisgoingon
It does not take skill to use dshot or bullstrike, predicting when someone will move does not equal skills.
I think the word you guys are looking for is "reflexes", it takes good reflexes to interrupt, not skill, predicting when someone will move or when someone will cast a spell does not equal skill at all, predicting is the same as guessing. GW PvP does not require skill, it requires a sharp mind and quick thinking abilities, knowing what to do. |
"being able to perform brain surgery does not require skill, it requires going through 12 years of post secondary education, good hand-eye coordination, not being not squeamish around blood"
"knowing how to play chess is not a skill, because all it require is the ability to think well ahead of the current situation and how to corner your opponents"
see, if i define everything to be "not require skill", everything will NOT require skill! GENIUS!
Dmitri3
I think it's funny that people don't realize that everyone got their own definition of balance, skill and whatever.
Balance is the same way as Good or Bad. Your view changes depending in which position you are, even if you don't want it to happen. This is why wars happen and why people remain dumb.
Balance is the same way as Good or Bad. Your view changes depending in which position you are, even if you don't want it to happen. This is why wars happen and why people remain dumb.
Winterclaw
I think moriz has a better understanding of what player skill is than whatshisname does.
Actually knowing what skills to interrupt and being able to correctly predict when they are going to be used does take a bit of skill.
Take WoH. It has a 3/4s cast time. So that means a mesmer should be able to power block it fairly easily but considering Dshot takes 1/2 a second to use you have to have a lot more sense of what's going on so you can correctly predict that the monk is going to use WoH so you can interrupt it.
Actually knowing what skills to interrupt and being able to correctly predict when they are going to be used does take a bit of skill.
Take WoH. It has a 3/4s cast time. So that means a mesmer should be able to power block it fairly easily but considering Dshot takes 1/2 a second to use you have to have a lot more sense of what's going on so you can correctly predict that the monk is going to use WoH so you can interrupt it.
byteme!
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Winterclaw
I think moriz has a better understanding of what player skill is than whatshisname does.
Actually knowing what skills to interrupt and being able to correctly predict when they are going to be used does take a bit of skill. Take WoH. It has a 3/4s cast time. So that means a mesmer should be able to power block it fairly easily but considering Dshot takes 1/2 a second to use you have to have a lot more sense of what's going on so you can correctly predict that the monk is going to use WoH so you can interrupt it. |
dartz180
[Charm Animal]
Most balanced skill in the game.
Most balanced skill in the game.
FoxBat
There's no bow ranger bar ever that would not run [Distracting Shot]. It's the first ranger skill wildcarded in every sealed deck. It's not "balanced" in the sense that it is 100% better than all competing options in every situation.
As a whole, rangers are outperforming mesmers at disruption and completely dominating split play, but you can't pin all the blame on any one skill there.
As a whole, rangers are outperforming mesmers at disruption and completely dominating split play, but you can't pin all the blame on any one skill there.
Shadowspawn X
This skill [concussion shot] is balanced. High energy cost and high results if you are good enough to land it. If you are bad you are penalized heavily with the energy loss.
phan
Define balanced for me pls :')
Age
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by moriz
"knowing how to play hockey is not a skill, because all it require is great physical aptitude, hand-eye coordination, quick reflexes, and the ability to skate."
|
The same can be said for anybody out there whether it be skilled tradesman or professional.
moriz
i made that post to illustrate the flawed logic of the poster i was quoting. you are supposed to take those statements as tongue-in-cheek statements, and not to be taken literally.