Item spells flawed?

So I was playing pvp the other night, was killed and rezzed with a signet. I get back up, and being the healer am pressed for time to get back healing my team. So first thing I do, of course, is cast my item spell, being dependent on it to maintain energy. (Thanks for a no e-mgt primary, Anet.)

Well, ironically the item spell I cast to be able to manage my energy puts me in an energy hole. I suppose I'd never really given it much thought before, but having to watch my team die while I stood by getting out of an energy hole prompted me to think that perhaps,

1. Rezzes that rez you with % energy should not include weapon set bonuses as "your" max.
2. The cost of item spells cast should come out of the "lost" bonus energy from weapon sets.

But then I considered how much you lose from dropping your mainhand and offhand. Let's look at a fast casting set. 40% chance of 50% cast time, and 40% chance of 50% recharge time. On average that is 20% faster recharges and 20% faster casting.

20% of a bar of 8 skills is the equivalent of being able to cast 1.6 more spells in the same time, as far as the recharge time goes.

And 20% faster casting? I'm sure I've seen skills that in themselves are crappier than this, making this alone on par with another 1 skill in itself.

In other words, on it's own, a wand set could be said to be (at maximum) as effective as another 2.6 skills on your bar, and that's without taking up any skill slots. So if you consider that, compared to an item spell, you get +1 spell to take on the bar itself, that drives the maximum value, comparatively to item spells, to 3.6...

How many item spells out there can you honestly look at and say, "Yes, that item spell is easily worth more than 3.6 other spells..."? None. Thoughts?

Except your maths is all wrong. A 40/40 set only has a 33% chance to fc spells iirc. As for the rest of your post i have no idea what you said.

20% chance on the first item, leaves 80%.

20% of 80% is 16%.

That makes a 36% chance rather than 40. However, you also have a 4% chance that they both go off at once, adding a 4% chance of 25% casting time; if you look at it another way, that's 2x a 4% chance of 50% casting time, so an "additional" 4% of 50%-

36+4 is 40. Even if it were just 36 instead of 40, and we disregard the 4x casting speed, that's not exactly "all wrong," just slightly off.

However, since I'm using averages, we aren't disregarding it, and the 40% still stands.

Hmm... since 50% recharge time is actually the same as 200% recharge speed... a 40% chance of casting the spells twice as fast, ie twice the spell casting. That would make a 40/40 set equivalent to a full 8 skills x40%, so +3.2 spells either way instead of 1.6... then consider item spells use up a spell slot, so in order to be worth dropping a good weapon set, suddenly they have to be a better choice than 4.2 spells in order to make the cut...?

Posts Merged by Celestial Beaver: Please use the button rather than double posting.

Drop the bundle and go into negative energy set.

Item spells are balanced by that fact. Same reason Weapon spells are so costly. They can't be removed (only interrupted). You just gotta learn when to use it.

Swap to a low energy set before you die. When you get ressed, switch back to a higher set. The lower set will hide your energy from the death. Switching to a higher set after you get ressed means you gain all the energy back instead of a percentage of it.

First of all, your math is all shitty and assumptive. It's just plain wrong, and speaks of a lack of understanding about basic game mechanics. There is a cap on HSR and HCT chances, and wand/offhand 20/20's don't stack, they overlap. Your math doesn't take that into account, and if it did, you did it incorrectly.

I see your point, though, because as a Ritualist I used to find myself boned for energy when I use an item spell after a res.

That's why real PvPers carry negative-energy sets. They're not just defense against e-denial anymore!

Trust me. I'm a better Ritualist than you are.

Although, I do like this:

That is a suggestion I can get behind. Everything else you said was mostly rambling and incoherent.

This post is pretty stupid. What you basically want to do is dumb down a lot of the set values in the game to make it easier not to fall into negative energy when you are ressed/cast item spells/switch sets. Also a lot of the post seemed to be incoherent rambling.

Items spells are not bad, neither is the % energy when you res you just need to know how to deal with them, which you don't seem to know how to do.

I stopped understanding once you pulled that bit of math magic out of thin air. That would only be appropriate to say if you had 8 identical skills on your skill bar, and I can guarantee that you won't, ever.

Mm that isn't one of the problems with his post I don't think. Considering the 20% recharge isn't based on using a set skill and applies to all 8 skills regardless of what they are, well, as long as they are skills/spells. If you're thinking about varying recharge times of the skills that to is irrelevant as you will always get 20% of the recharge.

However there is a great deal of other things that ARE wrong with his maths/post.

PvP is srs bznz

If you don't item spells, dont use them. If you don't like Rits lack of e management don't use a rit. Simple as that.

there are a lot of things broken with the rit. item spells where you have to hold something is one of them. spawning power is another.

Hmm, all right, in order then...

You will notice that was addressed here,

And if there is a cap, that is not a fault of the math, but a game mechanics oversight. If you need, I can explain the difference. As I stated before, a change from 40% to 36% would not nearly be enough of a difference to invalidate my point. I'll go over the math again, since I was on break when I did it, see below.

It applies to any bar that contains spells the HCT/HSR mods apply to. Effectively the mods are bar compression, and I used them because ceteris paribus they are the most easily measurable item mods in terms of performance.

If you don't like my post, don't reply in this thread.



Now,

So far I have seen no effective rebuttal, and although I am aware of certain (negligible) issues with the premise, noone as yet has pointed these out. Anyway, here's the case again with 36% rather than 40%, perhaps if I make the numbers more exact, the logic will become clearer. (Even to people with math degrees.)

36% chance of a 50% casting time and 50% skill recharge.

Half the time is the same thing as saying twice the speed. If it takes you half as long to get to the store, you were driving twice as fast, all else being equal. (Still with me, MStarfire?) Twice as fast is the same as 200% speed, or a speed bonus of +100%.

So this means 36% chance of +100% spell speed. This is overall, because it affects both components of how fast you can pump out spells in the long run: casting time and recharge. In reality it's probably better than that, because typically only one of those factors is what really limits you from pumping out spells quickly, so the other factor is a bonus on top of that. However, I'm going to assume they're both relevant, for the sake of argument. (Giving me some leeway.)

So now if we average out the spell speed increase, it's 36% of +100%, which results in an average spell speed increase of +36%.

36% of 8 spells is 2.88, which is the effective hidden bonus that fast casting mods can have on a full bar of spells affected by this bonus. This is assuming that both of the mods are necessary to overcome the limitations; if only casting time or recharge time is limiting you, then effectively the other bonus is in addition, and could be considered equivalent to a buffing spell in itself. Certainly there are spells/skills that have similar effects, with energy cost and chance of stripping.

Assuming that, (+1 spell, bonus for the other mod), and that this does not take up a spell slot, as item spells would (+1 spell, as a bonus for saving a spell slot in comparison), you might even say that in order for an item spell to prove a superior choice, it would have to be as good as somewhere between 2.88-4.88 other spells combined.

What?

Are you trying to say that if you have a 40/40 set then you "mathmatically" have, on average, 11 spells on your bar or 3 more spells, but if you have an Item Spell you have 3 less spells?

Are you also saying that you keep dying on high energy then getting rezed and casting an item spell and now being out of energy? Is that your complaint/question?

And then, after all that, are you trying to figure out if a Item spell is compareable to a 40/40 set, or atleast inferior to?

So far I have seen nothing effective to rebuttal, other than random blathering, mathmatical failures and lack of game mechanic understanding.

No, what I am saying is that if person A can cast 5 spell in the same time that person B can cast the same 5 spells twice, it is measurable performance. In this over-simplified case it would be 5 spells vs 10 spells, a 1:2 ratio.

No, this is only what prompted me to think about this whole topic in the first place, as evidenced in the original post where I said "prompted me to think that perhaps," etc.

Not even that much, it's just an attempt at determining the value of a 40/40 set. Since an item spell would replace this, the item spell would have to be superior in effect to be a fair trade-off.

The post I made just before yours is the most accurate, perhaps you can demonstrate from this which "mathmatical" failures you mean, or which mechanical issues need correcting.

There is one very basic but important oversight you are making though. According to your calculations of getting an extra couple of spells off because of reduced recharge times you would have to be continously casting.

This very very rarely is the case as it is not feasible in terms of energy. So most of the time you won't actually get the extra spells, it just means that the skill is recharged and ready in case you do need to use it again before it's standard recharge time.There are other factors as well that need to be taken into account, such as energy, how often you're casting (as I said previously) and also what other players are doing to you, edenial etc

I think in terms of raw numbers, if we do actually assume you are continously casting (which you never will be) then yes, the trade off of the 40/40 set to an item will not be worth it, but in practical terms it IS.

There is also something else you haven't taken into account when saying you get xx amount of extra spells when in 40/40 and that's the fact that when holding an item a lot of other skills become more effective (soothing memories, caretakers charge etc) and a lot of rit bars are synergised in order to take full advantage of this.

Hmm, very good points, Eddie, interesting.

As to the whole "constantly casting" point, I have to offer this: You're not necessarily always getting the full effect of your item spell either. Granted you will not always be getting the "full" bonus out of your fast casting set, since you're not always casting, but that's situational, and your item spell bonus may go unused just as often. That's subjective in both cases, but the "maximum possible" bonus is a little more concrete, and in the case of the fast casting set at least, quite high. And wouldn't it be possible to design "sustainable" spell bars, where you could in fact cast all your spells as fast as they come up?

The synergy of the rit bar, as the second point, also a good one. Frankly, most of the spells with such synergy seem quite weak on their own to me, that is to say, without the "while holding an item" bonus, making it more of a necessary evil - compromising freedom of optimal spell bar design for the sake of e-management, in the typical case for rits. My impression is that it will usually only affect one or two skills at most on a rit bar, and it won't do much more than change them from a crappy spell to a marginally more useful spell, or one made a necessary evil by the poor e-mgt rits suffer from.

I won't argue the math, as that isn't the important issue. Question is basically wether an item spell is worth using since you lose the 40/40 weapon set. This is ENTIRELY dependant on which item spell and why it is used. Some examples of what I mean:

[mighty was vorizun]
Using this will boost your energy and armor. This means you have more energy and take less damage. Can be quite useful for dealing with spikes and having that extra energy to cast a needed spell.

[protective was kaolai]
Another armor boost that can help deal with spikes, but this also provides party healing. Useful for countering party wide pressure and will heal people out of casting range.

[resilient was xiko]
No armor boost this time, but a solid way to deal with degen from hexes and conditions, as well as removing conditions.

[energetic was lee sa]
Energy management.

[Tranquil was tanasen]
Another armor boost, which helps with spikes, but this also prevents interrupts. Mesmers and Rangers giving you problems?

No, if you were struggling with interrupts, using [Energetic Was Lee Sa] wouldn't be much use, but a 40/40 weapon set might, as you could cast spells faster. However, [tranquil was tanasen] would prevent those interrupts as well as provide you with extra armor to deal with spikes.

Entirely depends on what you need to do, and what you are facing. Planning properly and making adjustments is all that is needed. I see nothing wrong with Item Spells, not with weapon mods.

I do not believe that having the ability to cast the skills already on your bar more frequently due to a 40/40 set is the same as having 4 more skills on your bar. Would you really want to compare the effectiveness a character with only 4 skills on his bar and a 40/40 set to a character with 8 skills on his bar ?

I am sorry but your basic assumption of the effect of a 40/40 set is flawed. It allows you to cast more often. Something you ideally should not need to take full advantage of. If you tried to take full advantage of that effect you would likely suffer from energy management every bit as much as in the example you gave.

A 40/40 set is more about timeliness of spell availabilty than of bar size increase. It allows you to have specific spells available more precisely when you need them. Sure it does allow for more spamming of skills that were already semi-spammable but spamming is not what skilled play is about.

Last of all changing a mechanic so that you dont have to learn or use player skill techniques to get around a balancing factor of a type of spell is not the best solution to a problem.

In PvE yeah it's probably possible to create bars that never run out of energy, however in PvP it's near impossible to create a bar that you can constantly spam with and which remains effective. The skills that it takes to create the near infinite energy just gimp the bar to much and make it useless apart from the novelty.

As for the synergy, saying the spells are quite weak on their own without the Item Spell is quite pointless because if you're playing the bar right, you WILL nearly always have the Item Spell active while casting it. Also saying that it compromise the flexibility of the bar isn't right either, it is by far the most optimal synergy for the rit. Item Spells are pretty good, take Protective Was Kaolai for example, I can cast it, maintain a pretty large +armour boost, while getting the additional bonuses from my other skills. Then when pressure really starts mounting up you can drop it and get a rather substantial party heal and then instantly recast it and drop it again if need be. The pressure this alleviates is pretty amazing.

Because you are pretty much always holding the Item Spell you could almost say any bonuses gained from holding it and casting other skills are not just chance effect bonuses, they nearly occur 100% of the time if you play right. The fact that are just mediocre without the item active is irrelevant.

You really will not find a better synergy on a Rit.

Let's assume 12 casting skill.

Channeled Strike:
10e
77 lightning damage w/o item
106 lightning damage with item
Casting time 2
Recharge 4

Immolate:
10e
106 damage always, more than a third of it armor ignoring from burning
Casting time 1
Recharge 3

When is synergy not synergy? When it's dependency. You can't claim this as an "advantage" of item spells: this is not something that makes item spells preferrable. For a rit player, this sort of thing only makes them necessary.

How can you compare Channeled Strike to Immolate? You're comparing a pure damage attribute line on a powerful damage orientated profession (Ele) with a Half healing, half damage (with channeling severely nerfed) profession. That's like me comparing the damage from a smiting skill on a monk to say the damage on some other high damage skill from the ele. It's not relevant at all. They fulfill different roles within the game.

As for the dependency on an item spell to get effect off non-item spell skills, it only appears as a dependency because it is so widely used and it so widely used because as I said earlier, it is the BEST option on a Ritualist. It is the optimal way to play the profession 9/10 times. This is not dependency, it is domination.

We can quote specific examples at each other until we're blue in the face, you know. Without an item spell, there's no reason to take that spell for nuking, you're exactly right. You might as well pick smiting to nuke for that matter - or do some real damage and go /E. But even with an item spell, it doesn't compare favorably. For that matter, I know how Kaolai's works, and of course it has it's benefits, but that still doesn't show that they outweigh a good wand/focus set.

On an unrelated note, I'm still not convinced that just because rits have a wider selection of spells, their spells should suck.

It doesn't matter that without an item spell the skill isn't good, that's irrelevant because no one will take it without an item spell. What I was saying is that item spells do not promote inflexible bars because both skills can function without each other, however this rarely happens. Compared to say having 1 spirit and taking Signet of Creation. Yes there is a synergy there but it's inflexible because signet of creation can only work with the spirit.

That's why the item-spell and item bonuses are so good, they promote perfect synergy without becoming full dependent on each other. Yes, I think it does outweigh the benefits of a 40/40 set because as we proved earlier, you do NOT get x amount of extra spells from it, that only occurs with constant casting. 40/40 sets are used for spell availability, so that should the occasion arise you have the chance to use a spell that you need before it would normally be charged, not so that you can spam spam spam, and the Item Spell - Item Bonus syngery on the rit bar is superior to this.

As for why Rit skills have been nerfed a lot because of their diversity, this is because a Class that can heal very efficiently as well as output high damage through channeling becomes very over-powered. I'm sure you've seen the effects of this in smiting monks as well as soon as a few smiting skills get buffed and see use they become very imbalanced.

When I first started playing on my Rit, I NEVER used Item spells. I thought it was horrible how you lost your weapon set, and couldn't get the energy from it or even wand things. After I learned through experience how to manage energy, I decided to give them another try. I used [destructive was glaive] and [renewing surge] first. Of course spamming Renewing gave me energy problems, but I found something fun to do. Then I moved to a healing build and used [protective was kaolai]. I rarely have energy problems when using that Resto build, and don't have any skills to manage my energy.

Your comparison of Channeled Strike to Immolate makes it sound like you want to play your Rit as an Ele. Rit has a lot of options, and they all work quite well if played right. A 40/40 weapon set can make a big difference in a build, but if your build RELIES on it, then there is another problem. And I do not think the idea of having more spells on your bar when using a 40/40 set is even close to accurate.

So I was playing pvp the other night. So first thing I do, of course, is cast my item spell, being dependent on it to maintain energy.
I had cast this item spell in my low energy set. We decided to punish this really bad PR warrior who was really bad so we decided to punish him by killing him. I decided I was going to drop the item I was holding, it was getting kinda heavy and i had flags to run, but being a lazy person I just switched weapon sets (to my 40/40 channeling set, cause i like to use my weapon sets intelligently on key skills) so i could help kill this bad warrior in PR who was being bad.
anyways. when i've dropped an item by switching weapon sets i often get bugged energy where, while my blue bar may show 10 or so energy, i cannot cast a 5 energy skill. this is the only issue i'm finding with item spells.

@ op you cannot compare eles with rits. eles are a damage and CC (crowd control) class, while rits are versatility. eles excel at damage and physical shutdown, and rits are just ok at everything, with two unique spell types to make them useful

If you think item spells are bad or screw variety or anything like that I am sorry but you are a bad ritualist. I love playing rit and item spells are about one of the classes best traits. You complain about them not being as good as a 40/40 set but u dont take into account the bonus u get from the item or the synergies u get from holding it. U also dont take into account that u dont have to hold the item spell 100% of the time. You can have a 40/40 set on your rit, drop the item when needed, cast a spell u want while not holding the item (WoW any1?) and then recast the item spell. Simple things like this give u a chance to half cast WoW and half the recharge.

All i can say really is the system isnt flawed, you just need to l2p

P.S the guy who said something about energy bugging out where it looks like u got more than u acually have, I have this same problem occasionally too.

Actually if you had of read the rest of the thread, we already discussed all these things.

Also if you think you shouldn't be holding the item spell all the time then it is YOU who is the bad ritualist.

That would depend on what the item spell you are using is. A skill like Protective Was Kaolai should be held at all times for the extra armor, but you would want to drop it for healing if needed. However, a spell like Pure Was Li Ming isn't able to be help at all times, and should be dropped as needed to remove conditions from the team. But I will agree, that in general, you have the items spells held at all times unless you NEED to drop them for thier benefit.

You're not just holding the items spells for their additional effect though, all good rit bars synergize the item spells with spells that have additional bonuses with the item spells and so the item spell should always be up in order to fully utilise the additonal effects.

You obviously didn't read it properly. Drop item, cast spell, recast item as opposed to using that spell after u recast your item spell.

P.S I didn't read many of the posts here.

That is an equally if not worse thing to do.

You realise how much energy that burns up? If you think a 40% chance to get Half Cast/Half recharge is worth dropping a 10/15e Item spell only to recast it again immediately after then...wow...Sorry but doing that would burn up nearly all your energy nearly instantly...

getting a HSR on a PwK as a stand rit or flag runner can make all the difference when your team is under heavy pressure. sacrificing a good chunk of your energy is worth it sometimes.

overall, i have mixed feelings about item spells. synergy is good in theory, but dependency is a part of synergy. the ritualist is a class that has very few practical options for energy management, and is further crippled in that respect due to having to sacrifice weapon bonuses in order to use the item spell that enables you to use the energy management skills. when any other class runs low on energy, they can swap to a high energy weapon set. the ritualist cannot, and if they are forced to...they are also forced to sacrifice using their item spell, which in turn makes their energy management skills useless. item spells also suck in the respect that they guarantee easy interrupts for your enemies and you can only use one at a time. the only plus side to item spells (aside from the particular holding effect) is that you can't do a damn thing about the drop effect. therefore, an item spell needs to be really awesome (like PwK, which has a good holding effect AND a good drop effect) to be worth using. the vast majority of item spells are not worth the sacrifice.

also, while on the subject...

dear anet,
please fix the energy desync bug that happens when you die while holding an item. i have thoroughly documented it on your wiki.
sincerely,
disgruntled flag runner

O.o can you post the link, I want to read up on that.

To the guy who still doesn't get what I'm saying, you should never drop an item spell on purpose with the intention of casting another spell in between, there are times when your team is under pressure and you need to drop the ashes to help relieve the pressure (Talking about PwK here), it is these times when you can take advantage of your weapon set. That being said it doesn't mean that you have do this ALL the time due to energy reasons as you so nicely pointed out.

P.S I would very much like to know what 15e item spell you are using.

Yes, of course you would do that, however in your original post you did not make it clear at all that was what you were implying.

Yes, I understand that but that is recasting the Item Spell, I was under the impression that he was talking about dropping the Item Spell just to cast something like Warding in a 40/40 set and then recasting the Item, however he has since made it clearer what his original meaning was.

i posted it on linsey's talk page, but it appears as though she archived it somewhere and now i can't find it >.<

basically, if you die while on your 40/40 set holding an item, you have to wait for that extra +12 energy (from the focus) to regen (even though you can't see it) before your energy pool will act normal again. that goes for any energy bonuses on the weapons.

if you find your energy has desynced (ie. can't cast a 5e spell when your bar says you have 10e available), just stop casting if at all possible. i know it is terribly inconvenient, especially if you were not resurrected with full energy. wait for your energy bar to go all the way up, and then wait an additional 10 seconds or so (more if you died on a high set) and you will be back to normal.

So if i use a +0 energy set while holding an item the desync wont happen?

correct. stay on a shield set if at all possible.

I didn't read all the posts and honestly I'm studying so I cannot be bothered but I'd like to point a thing at the people defending item spells

There are currently 15 item spells in this game

They are Xinrae, Sogolon, Khainei,Kaolai, Naomei, Lingwah, Mingson, Xiko,Kunoroong, Lee Sa, Songkai, Tanasen, Li ming, Tsungrai, Vorizun, Daoshen, Glavie.

Of these 16, 6 are elites.

Xinrae is a bad elite, the bastard daughter of Unholy feast and prot spirit. But it's elite, and on top of that the primary effect (20% protection) is terrible for anything above 200hp, in this it's outperformed by prot spirit, the life steal is laughable
Sogolon simply sucks,
Khainei is decent, but remains the fact that this is a pve elite
Kaolai: godly, party heal + armor buff, you could argue you lose the weapon set bonus, but if you cast kaolai without dropping the previous urn first you're bad. In that case you'd be gimping yourself by not using a 40/40 set, of course there are exceptions.
Naomei : lol
Lingwah: it's a spirit, I'm biased toward this.
Mingson: Strong defense skill, can be used to help allies as well.
Xiko: I rarely use this, but honestly the + degen it grants doesn't excuse the investment, I'd use kaolai.
Lee Sa : Bad energy management, linked to Spawning power as well, simply sucks.
Songkai: Average elite, at least compared to some of the other shit anet gave ritualists, but it's linked to spawning, and on top of that it's designed for skill spamming. Why should I spam my skills?
Tanasen: Bad skill and elite on top of that, basically they took kaolai gimped it and made it elite. Someone could say "It prevents interrupt", as a rit the only interrupt I fear are Warrior's and rangers and knock downs, most of the time I'm under weapon of warding, with this skill I'd not only drop the set bonuses but on top of that it would give me nothing useful compared to kaolai
Li ming: Aoe condition removal every 20 seconds, a necro with foul feast can do much better in a smaller timeframe.
Tsungrai: Sac life, increases your health (but you lose the set bonuses) and when dropped you get healed. Only time I would use this is when I'm knocked down, but you can't drop ashes while on the ground so I dislike this.
Vorizun: Bad skill, having more energy shouldn't be your energy management, also it's linked to communing. It gives +15 armor, but it makes you lose your potential shield, on top of that If i want to use a pot I'd use Kaolai wich has a better after effect/gives more armor and is linked to a more useful attribute
Daoshen : PBaoe nuke, a ritu shouldn't be a frontliner, I don't see much use for this, and the 15energy cost doesn't help.
Glavie: They buffed it, but honestly I don't see it so useful, in hm pve mobs will still laugh at your damage, in pvp you will most of the time be running a secondary class elite or Caretaker.
Kunoroong: Decent elite, but it's a pbaoe nuke, the damage here is armor ignoring, vs a 80AL char you will be getting almost the same number Daoshen has, energy cost is 15, the elite status is given due to the unconditional KD, wich can be applied twice if timed correctly.

Generally item spells are flawed, they are unstrippable but on the other hand they prevent you from gaining weapon sets advantages, this would be pretty fair if such spells were at least decent but some of them are utter shit, mainly due to a bad design/and repeated nerfs to skill lines. Unlike enchantments wich stack item spells don't, but they are not removable
This should sum up why Item spells are bad (again I directed this post to one of the guy defending item spells)

No one at any time defended any of the bad item spells, of course having a 40/40 set is going to be better than using one of the shit item spells, you haven't pointed out anything new, you're just stating the obvious.

No one is forcing you to run one of the bad item spells either so saying "this would be pretty fair if such spells were at least decent but some of them are utter shit" isn't valid at all.

There are some good item spells, primarily Protective Was Kaolai which is outstanding. You can only really compare the good item spells such as kaolai to a 40/40 set. There really is no point whatsoever in comparing the bad item spells that no one uses because, well, no one uses them.

Stackable Item Spells would simply be one of the most imbalanced things ever.

Because your opinion of these spells is all that matters ... Sure there are some totally crap ones however item spells are for different purposes.

For example Songkai is an obvious PvE skill as is Li Ming, replacing a skill with another class is hardly a fair comparison not to mention for your average guy Necros may not be around, this skill also removes the conditions instantly preventing damage from skills like Searing Flames and also keeping disease under control.

I also disagree with your opinion of Tsungrai this is a great skill in any solo oriented area, namely RA and AB it provides a massive self heal with a decent health bonus.

Just because an item spell is not useful to YOU doesn't mean it isn't useful.