Discordway Q.
AtomicMew
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AP doesn't help discord damage, this "must use AP with Discordway" reasoning is hyped so much that it is getting ridiculous! It is turning into the "I bring all hexes and conditions on my own character" build argument into a single point of utter failure! You have all been using generic builds so much, you have forgotten what the other builds are good for.
Again, AP is NOT used because it is just a hex. Seriously, it's been stated here about 5 times already. It's used because it lets you spam overpowered PvE skills, which lets you have insanely high DPS. There is no other elite that can compare. I'm sorry, but that's simply a fact. If you can't even admit this, then it's pretty obvious you are simply looking to argue, since it's quite hard not to understand this.
Daesu
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Originally Posted by traversc
Quote: There is no other elite that can compare. I'm sorry, but that's simply a fact. If you can't even admit this, then it's pretty obvious you are simply looking to argue, since it's quite hard not to understand this. I have to disagree. For a DSlash/SY warrior build, adrenaline is more important than energy. AP is not the answer to every build. Even though AP+PvE skills is a strong combo, AP builds have their weaknesses too.
For example, if you are fighting a tough boss that takes more than your 3 PvE skills to kill, your AP is not going to help you much. I prefer a build that offers better protection. You can also have problems with AP in high hex removal areas.
And daze always agrees with me in the end, don't you daze?
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I had to read this bit over and over. And im sad to say that i still dont understand what this sentence means. Is [save yourselves] not a PvE skill? Or was that sarcasm?
And the whole agreeing with you part is a moot point. I think we are both ion the same page, but reading it in different languages or something.
Ok here is my point that [[assassins promise] is more than Quote:
Just a hex
1: Yes, it is a hex to prime for [discord]
2: It is a means to recharge your other caller skills
3: It returns enough energy to allow you to spam your primers indefinitely.
4: It is potentially the fastest spammable hex in the game.
Ok, now for adrenalin builds. Sure, you are obviously correct in your claim that [[assassins promise] is not the best choice. So then just bring [[asuran scan]. But adrenalin builds make up at most 1/10 of all possible player builds. So it would be a safe assumption that OVERALL [[Assassins promise] is the best utility to bring for a discord team. Simply because it is NOT just a hex to prime discord, and that it has many other benefits.
What if i were to say that [assassins promise][you move like a dwarf][ebon vanguard assassin support][finish him] + DISCORDWAY >> [dragon slash][asuran scan] + DISCORDWAY simply because when i let my warrior friend join me on 6 hero vanquishes with discordway, the enemies die before he can even run up to them and hit them once.
2: It is a means to recharge your other caller skills
3: It returns enough energy to allow you to spam your primers indefinitely.
4: It is potentially the fastest spammable hex in the game.
Ok, now for adrenalin builds. Sure, you are obviously correct in your claim that [[assassins promise] is not the best choice. So then just bring [[asuran scan]. But adrenalin builds make up at most 1/10 of all possible player builds. So it would be a safe assumption that OVERALL [[Assassins promise] is the best utility to bring for a discord team. Simply because it is NOT just a hex to prime discord, and that it has many other benefits.
What if i were to say that [assassins promise][you move like a dwarf][ebon vanguard assassin support][finish him] + DISCORDWAY >> [dragon slash][asuran scan] + DISCORDWAY simply because when i let my warrior friend join me on 6 hero vanquishes with discordway, the enemies die before he can even run up to them and hit them once.
Daesu
Do you really think that when I referred to the deadly AP+3 PvE skills combo, I meant SY as an example?
Quote: Ok here is my point that [[assassins promise] is more than
1: Yes, it is a hex to prime for [discord] You really shouldn't use AP to prime discord. AP should be cast just before the target dies. Otherwise, you risk losing your AP and mess up your build.
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No it can't. That is the point. Shouts are and insta-260 damage (80+80+DW) at any range. EVAS alone literally replaces a sin's entire bar.
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So it would be a safe assumption that OVERALL [[Assassins promise] is the best utility to bring for a discord team. Simply because it is NOT just a hex to prime discord, and that it has many other benefits.
Like I have said, I have nothing against AP builds since I use them on some of my characters too. But I can still use my version of discordway just as well enough even without AP.
AtomicMew
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Originally Posted by Daesu
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That is the point I am trying to make all along. Use your head, rather than throw up a generic build in everyone's face and say use this AP+Discordway, it is the best possible build for EVERY situation!
I never, ever said AP+discordway is "the best possible build for every situation." AP caller IS better for MOST professions, for reasons already stated. Exception of course includes the warrior, since he has no e-management. But if you play a warrior, you're probably better off doing some HB/MoP/Splinter nuking and blowing up entire mobs in seconds.
daze
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Originally Posted by Daesu
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Do you really think that when I referred to the AP+3 PvE skills combo, I meant to use SY as an example?
NopeQuote: Originally Posted by Daesu
You shouldn't use AP to prime discord. AP should be cast just before the target dies. Otherwise, you risk losing your AP and mess up your build.
Works fine for me, I use [assassins promise][you move like a dwarf] to prime, then [pain inverter] to cover and [enduring toxin] to cover that and [finish him] to wipe up. And i almost never miss the 13 second window for the promise.
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AP caller IS better for MOST professions, for reasons already stated. Exception of course includes the warrior, since he has no e-management.
Even that statement is debatable. Should all Imbagons start using AP then? Should all ER/Infuse Ele start using AP then? Every good build has something to offer and they dont all necessarily have to be built around AP.Quote:
That is to a SINGLE target. EVAS doesn't last long against a strong opponent. With just Splinter Weapon, and MoP a scythe assassin can already deal more overall damage in the same amount of time.|
Originally Posted by Daesu
Like I have said, I have nothing against AP builds since I use them on some of my characters too. But I can still use my version of discordway just as well enough even without AP.
Fair enough, but what you originally said was [assassins promise] doesn't make discordway any more efficient.
Daesu |
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Quote: But if you play a warrior, you're probably better off doing some HB/MoP/Splinter nuking and blowing up entire mobs in seconds. And nobody says you cant include Splinter/MoP in a discordway build either.
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Scythe assassins (i.e. A/D) dont bring MoP on their skill bars. Discord necro heroes can bring MoP.
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Works fine for me, I use [assassins promise][you move like a dwarf] to prime, then [pain inverter] to cover and [enduring toxin] to cover that. And i almost never miss the 13 second window for the promise.
If you are bringing another pve skill then you have to replace EVAS or FH. Quote:
Well if you are using Discordway then you probably aren't adjusting your heroes to synergies with your build. And if you aren't trying to synergies with your heroes, then you are out of place. An ER infuse ele doesn't belong in a discordway team because of all the N/Rt heals being thrown around. Kinda like the Sesame Street song "One of These Things is Not Like The Other" And like a warrior trying make is bar to push a bunch of yellow numbers on a discord team. Not useful.
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Should all Imbagons start using AP then? Depends on area; paragons aren't terrible with AP because they have decent e-management options. Should all ER/Infuse Ele start using AP then? Yes; you're better off playing some other build if you do ER-Infuse. Quote:
You can already provide a ton of utility or support without AP. Like I have already said, AP is useful, but it is not always the BEST choice for all situations even when using it with discordway.
Quote: Originally Posted by traversc
Oops, your target just died. Now you have to wait 20 seconds for MoP to recharge.
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MoP is a terrible hex for a discord hero to bring. EVAS lasts long enough to do its thing. I usually have 3-4 out at a time. If EVAS is being targetted and dies, GOOD less damage to your team. Better than your hero being targeted and dying.
MoP is good enough for most hero uses, considering the damage it deals. And please stop even comparing your EVAS effectiveness to a well played human assassin. There is just no comparison. Your 3 to 4 EVAS running randomly is not as effective as a single buffed up scythe assassin when played well. Positioning is key, but unfortunately your EVAS dont know that and tend to draw even more aggro. Quote:
You seem to forget that although there is no set discordway team build, there is a norm or a standard template in which 99.9% of all discord users go by. And the understood formula for a 6 hero discord team is 1: N/Rt heal... 2: N/Rt heal... 3: N/Mo Prot... 4:N/Mo prot/heal... 5: N Minion master... 6: N Curser. That seems to be the standard format for 99% of discord builds out there, with slight variations. But sure, as you so aptly point out, there is an exception to every rule. And if you want to swap out a hero and take on that role yourself, then knock yourself out. Whatever blows your skirt up. This is the earliest thread on discord that i could find.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10315920 Quote:
You have yet to prove to me why discordway would fail if an ER/Infuse ele joins the team, other than the fact that your PERSONAL preference would not allow it. Any healer/prot character can still use discordway or sabway without penalty.
You have yet to quote me accurately. I never said anything about a team failing because it had too much prot. I mentioned that in the average discordway team, an ER ele is unnecessary. I have enough words in my mouth without you putting more in it. Quote:
What makes you think I am talking about a 6 heroes discordway? And despite your attempts at defining your own personal discordway variant as THE definitive build, it is not.
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You have yet to quote me accurately. I never said anything about a team failing because it had too much prot. I mentioned that in the average discordway team, an ER ele is unnecessary. I have enough words in my mouth without you putting more in it.
Again, define the average discordway. There is no such thing and you dont have to quote YOUR particular variant again as the standard which you think that others should follow. We are going in circles, you keep trying to nail it down to your build and I keep saying there is no one single build for discordway. Quote:
No, you are wrong. I frequently bring MoP on my A/D/N all the time. It's simple.
Quote: Also, don't underestimate EVAS. It provides knocklock/shutdown with YMLAD and also some pretty nice damage (15 dagger mastery). It also doesn't matter if it dies, unlike a scythe sin. Quote:
Read what I said. I am using an A/D, I cant bring MoP on my own skill bar even if I want to. But my heroes can.
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Your forgetting that GW is 99% about efficiency and build potency especially when talking hero builds for PvE, even more so HM PvE. People don't want to gimp themselves and a caller build with AP greatly increases the effectiveness of discordway and how fast mobs drop.It's logic a build like discordway, it's strength being huge targeted spikes, works perfectly with AP. Symbiosis of the players build with his/her heroes has to be taken into account especially when the heroes DPS is conditional. You can't argue that outside personal denial or preference. It's fact. Saying you can run what ever you want or just stand around while your heroes do all the work has little merit in a game where the majority of PvE is a cakewalk.The fact the mobs in GW are generally retarded does nothing to discount the potency of running an AP caller build with Discordway.. We are talking about the build and the gameplay usually associated with it. Sabway is self-sufficient in attaining maximum efficiency with negligible influence from the build the player uses. Discordway is self-sufficient but relies on the players build to make the most of it's conditional damage and is perfect for exploiting the awesomeness of AP.The player is also required to assist in targeting spikes. It's really that simple, unless you don't mind gimping yourself. Quote: |
Originally Posted by Daesu
I have already stated if you like to use AP fine.But spamming overpowered PvE skills will not grant +100 armor to your party. Which one is better?
DPS is king...always. Who needs SY when mobs are dropping like flies and you have a N/Rit in the team that easily keeps red bars up 99% of the time? You already stated.... Quote:
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I dont think you have even realized how sucky the EVAS skill bar is compared to a buffed up human scythe sin build.
