[Withdraw Hexes]
Elite Spell. Remove all Hexes from target ally and all adjacent allies.This Spell takes and additional 20..8..4 seconds recharge for each Hex removed in this way(Maximum 60-30 seconds).
Remove Lingering and Suffering from a party of 8 with 0 divine favor = 320 seconds recharge ... think they should cap this max 60 seconds
Withdraw Hexes
Lourens
360??
Even if they capped that to 60 secs, no one would use it.
hoyce
It is seriously out-competed by other hex removals. They'd have to break it to fix it...I think the only solution is the rework the skill...
Cebe
I agree with hoyce. Perhaps if it incorporated some other downside to the player using it? Maybe:
Remove all hexes from target ally and adjacent allies. For each hex lost all party members gain 5...10...12 health. You lose an additional 1 energy for each hex removed in this way.
I'm not saying the above is ideal, probably far from it, but I would reckon it needs a complete rework of it's functionality to be worthwhile.
Remove all hexes from target ally and adjacent allies. For each hex lost all party members gain 5...10...12 health. You lose an additional 1 energy for each hex removed in this way.
I'm not saying the above is ideal, probably far from it, but I would reckon it needs a complete rework of it's functionality to be worthwhile.
MagmaRed
15 energy is already the highest for any Monk skill outside of a particular rez nobody uses. Casting time is fair - easy enough to interrupt, but not so long as to prevent healing/protecting to still occur. What is killing the usefulness of this skill is the recharge. Make is something like:
15 energy
1 cast time
5 recharge
Elite Spell. Remove all hexes from target and all adjacent party members (prevents issues with NPCs, pets, minions, etc.). For each hex removed all your skills are disabled for 3..2..1 seconds.
If removing Suffering from 8 people, you'd be without skills for 8 seconds if you had 13 Divine Favor or more, and 16 seconds with 7 or more DF. Party wide hex removal is very small, this could be useful as a secondary. If this happened, you wouldn't see a Monk using it though, but an elite slot for a secondary class isn't used often (MoI, Hidden Caltops) outside of Sin.
I'm not sure what would make the skill useful, but currently it is a complete waste.
15 energy
1 cast time
5 recharge
Elite Spell. Remove all hexes from target and all adjacent party members (prevents issues with NPCs, pets, minions, etc.). For each hex removed all your skills are disabled for 3..2..1 seconds.
If removing Suffering from 8 people, you'd be without skills for 8 seconds if you had 13 Divine Favor or more, and 16 seconds with 7 or more DF. Party wide hex removal is very small, this could be useful as a secondary. If this happened, you wouldn't see a Monk using it though, but an elite slot for a secondary class isn't used often (MoI, Hidden Caltops) outside of Sin.
I'm not sure what would make the skill useful, but currently it is a complete waste.
ac1inferno
[[Withdraw Hexes] is bad for the following reasons:
- Energy cost same as [[Convert Hexes]
- Recharge time is longer than [[Convert hexes] @ 2 removed hexes and 16 DF
- [[Convert Hexes] provides armor boost.
I suggest the following for [[Withdraw Hexes]. Some or all of the suggestions should be adopted.
- Reduce energy cost to 10
- Increase activation to 2 seconds
- Add in 'lose 4..[email protected] energy for each hex lost
- Increase range to party members
- Reduce hexes removed to 1..[email protected]
- Decrease disable duration to 10..[email protected]
- Energy cost same as [[Convert Hexes]
- Recharge time is longer than [[Convert hexes] @ 2 removed hexes and 16 DF
- [[Convert Hexes] provides armor boost.
I suggest the following for [[Withdraw Hexes]. Some or all of the suggestions should be adopted.
- Reduce energy cost to 10
- Increase activation to 2 seconds
- Add in 'lose 4..[email protected] energy for each hex lost
- Increase range to party members
- Reduce hexes removed to 1..[email protected]
- Decrease disable duration to 10..[email protected]
faraaz
[Peace and Harmony] > [Withdraw Hexes]
Unless Anet does a "we cant balance anything so lets make everything overpowered" update again, not much hope for this skill in any way.
Unless Anet does a "we cant balance anything so lets make everything overpowered" update again, not much hope for this skill in any way.
jaximus
with the functionality of PnH in the current form, withdraw should take a similar yet different functionality in order to be used in a similar fashion. this issue with some skills 'balance' comes with how the skill itself works in a different manner than skills that are known to work. like word and zb for example. they are bar pushers. PnH is a party member cleaner, similar to rc. and with the need for bar pushers in gvg/ha gameplay, withdraw would have to compete with rc/PnH for the slot one the prot.
so heres my thinking. since holy veil is an amazing skill, why not make a similar function with withdraw.
"(5e 3/4 7) elite enchantment spell: target ally loses all hexes and for 2..5 seconds, hexes cast on target ally take twice as long to cast. your smiting prayers are disabled for 20 seconds. (50% chance of failure with divine favor 4 or less)"
this would give monks the clean sweep of hexes they so desperately want. 'target ally' keeps this skill able to self target. with no condition removal, this skill wouldnt be too similar to PnH. the added cast time for hexes on target would help rangers/mesmers deter hexway pressure and hurt the fast cast mesmer hexers(snares/curses). this skill would be balanced in 8v8 and in areas where monks would use the elite to keep themselves clean but lack the big bar pushers.
so heres my thinking. since holy veil is an amazing skill, why not make a similar function with withdraw.
"(5e 3/4 7) elite enchantment spell: target ally loses all hexes and for 2..5 seconds, hexes cast on target ally take twice as long to cast. your smiting prayers are disabled for 20 seconds. (50% chance of failure with divine favor 4 or less)"
this would give monks the clean sweep of hexes they so desperately want. 'target ally' keeps this skill able to self target. with no condition removal, this skill wouldnt be too similar to PnH. the added cast time for hexes on target would help rangers/mesmers deter hexway pressure and hurt the fast cast mesmer hexers(snares/curses). this skill would be balanced in 8v8 and in areas where monks would use the elite to keep themselves clean but lack the big bar pushers.
Sword Hammer Axe
I'm thinking a rework would be nice too. Something like this:
15 e
1 cast
10 or 15 recharge
Remove all hexes from target ally. For each hex removed all allies are healed for 15...65...75 and gain 0...5...6 energy.
I would use it if it was like that. Even if it couldn't self target I would
15 e
1 cast
10 or 15 recharge
Remove all hexes from target ally. For each hex removed all allies are healed for 15...65...75 and gain 0...5...6 energy.
I would use it if it was like that. Even if it couldn't self target I would
Raul the Rampant
I guess my first reaction is that since we already have skills like [Martyr], [Cautery Signet], and [Foul Feast], couldn't something be designed along those lines of functionality to work on hexes? I'm not really sure about it yet, but I'll throw it out there and see if anyone else has any thoughts on it...
10 energy, 1 second cast, 20 second recharge
Transfer 0..2..3 hexes and their remaining durations from each party member to yourself, and the duration of these hexes is then reduced by 30...90..95%. For each hex transferred in this way you gain 0..2..3 energy.
This could provide an economical party-wide hex removal that could not be abused by other professions as it would remain in the DF line. Furthermore,the recharge prevents it from being overly spammable, and the obvious potential drawbacks would mean that the user would have to be aware of the types of hexes being employed by the other team in order to use it without causing undue harm to him/herself and their team. Obviously this would be more effective in counter-melee heavy situations, but caster hate could also be mitigated with this if the team prepares correctly.
10 energy, 1 second cast, 20 second recharge
Transfer 0..2..3 hexes and their remaining durations from each party member to yourself, and the duration of these hexes is then reduced by 30...90..95%. For each hex transferred in this way you gain 0..2..3 energy.
This could provide an economical party-wide hex removal that could not be abused by other professions as it would remain in the DF line. Furthermore,the recharge prevents it from being overly spammable, and the obvious potential drawbacks would mean that the user would have to be aware of the types of hexes being employed by the other team in order to use it without causing undue harm to him/herself and their team. Obviously this would be more effective in counter-melee heavy situations, but caster hate could also be mitigated with this if the team prepares correctly.
MagmaRed
The appeal of Withdraw wasn't so much the massive amounts of hexes it would remove from a target, it was the fact it would remove hexes from a large number of targets with one cast. As hex removal skills are lacking compared to the amount of hexes, and are severely outclasses in recharge times, this was nice for a way to remove multiple hexes from multiple targets. Key word there is multiple, and it was used 2 times.
Problem was that this would create a balance issue, so the recharge penalty was used to keep it balanced. However, it also created a reason for the skill to never get used.
Peace And Harmony is a great hex removal skill. However, it fails on party wide hex removal, as you have to wait 7 seconds to use it again. Things like Suffering and Lingering Curse give problems on multiple targets, but P&H only fixes that problem on one target.
Not sure how it could be done AND balanced, but I'd love to see a skill that provided party wide hex removal.
Problem was that this would create a balance issue, so the recharge penalty was used to keep it balanced. However, it also created a reason for the skill to never get used.
Peace And Harmony is a great hex removal skill. However, it fails on party wide hex removal, as you have to wait 7 seconds to use it again. Things like Suffering and Lingering Curse give problems on multiple targets, but P&H only fixes that problem on one target.
Not sure how it could be done AND balanced, but I'd love to see a skill that provided party wide hex removal.
IronSheik
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Raul the Rampant
Blablabla
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I like this idea, but I think the recharge would be better at 30 or 45
snaek
withdraw hexes
unlinked
15en
2c
20r
remove 1 hex from each party member within earshot
----
to compete directly with:
expel hexes
unlinked
5en
1c
8r
remove 2 hexes from target ally
----
withdraw has potential to remove more hexes
but only effective if whole team is facing hex-heavy pressure
2 second cast leaves much room to be interrupted
so while 20s may seem like a short recharge, u really do have to be careful with it
both r unlinked and so can be run (and most likely should) by secondaries
unlinked
15en
2c
20r
remove 1 hex from each party member within earshot
----
to compete directly with:
expel hexes
unlinked
5en
1c
8r
remove 2 hexes from target ally
----
withdraw has potential to remove more hexes
but only effective if whole team is facing hex-heavy pressure
2 second cast leaves much room to be interrupted
so while 20s may seem like a short recharge, u really do have to be careful with it
both r unlinked and so can be run (and most likely should) by secondaries
Painbringer
Target ally is healed for 16-51 health if that character is suffering from a hex that ally and all allies "with in an ear shot" have 1 hex removed (if more than one ally lose a hex in this way you are exhausted)
15en
1c
30r
Just an idea
15en
1c
30r
Just an idea
Spike Stritter
i believe Anet should change Anet should maybe make [Withdraw Hexes] a buffer [Peace and Harmony] without the condition removal.
i mean we got RC why not have a similiar effect with WH
i mean we got RC why not have a similiar effect with WH
Bobulation
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Spike Stritter
i believe Anet should change Anet should maybe make [Withdraw Hexes] a buffer [Peace and Harmony] without the condition removal.
i mean we got RC why not have a similiar effect with WH |
Spike Stritter
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bobulation
A similar effect with hexes would probably be overpowered.
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Through my experience you run into conditons way more than hexes and there are only a select few that can really cripple you.
if applying the RC concept to WH but obviosuly hexes instead of conditions i think it would be just as useful as RC: useful in areas with lots of hexes but pointless in areas with few to no hexes.
now for the middle areas(moderate hexes) it would be a debatable skill, meaning should the monk elite be WoH, WH, ZB, etc.
if someone proves what i said was wrong or inaccurate then maybe not change WH to like RC but at least change it since there are way better elites to be using(divert hexes anyone?)
Lourens
Remove 2-5 Hexes from target ally for 20 seconds the next 3-10 times target ally would be dealt damage that damage is reduced by 20-50.
make it an elite [[reverse hex]
make it an elite [[reverse hex]
Krill
As far as elite hex removals go it's hard to imagine how anything could compete with PnH.
I like where Lourens was going, maybe a Life Sheath like skill for hex removal. 5e, 1/4s cast, 5s recharge with RoF effect. However there is an argument to be made against more 1/4s monk elites, only viable counter is hum sig or luck.
I like where Lourens was going, maybe a Life Sheath like skill for hex removal. 5e, 1/4s cast, 5s recharge with RoF effect. However there is an argument to be made against more 1/4s monk elites, only viable counter is hum sig or luck.
Cebe
Or perhaps try to rework the spell into a Divine Boon or a Purifying Veil type of skill:
Option 1:
15 energy, -1 energy upkeep
While you maintain this enchantment Monk spells targeting an ally remove one hex from that ally. When a hex is removed in this way you lose 6...2...2 energy or Withdraw Hexes ends.
Option 2:
15 energy, -1 energy upkeep, 10 second recharge
While you maintain this Enchantment, Hexes expire 5...41...50% faster on target ally. When this Enchantment ends, one Hex is removed from that ally.
Option 1:
15 energy, -1 energy upkeep
While you maintain this enchantment Monk spells targeting an ally remove one hex from that ally. When a hex is removed in this way you lose 6...2...2 energy or Withdraw Hexes ends.
Option 2:
15 energy, -1 energy upkeep, 10 second recharge
While you maintain this Enchantment, Hexes expire 5...41...50% faster on target ally. When this Enchantment ends, one Hex is removed from that ally.
Lourens
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver
Or perhaps try to rework the spell into a Divine Boon or a Purifying Veil type of skill:
Option 1: 15 energy, -1 energy upkeep While you maintain this enchantment Monk spells targeting an ally remove one hex from that ally. When a hex is removed in this way you lose 6...2...2 energy or Withdraw Hexes ends. Option 2: 15 energy, -1 energy upkeep, 10 second recharge While you maintain this Enchantment, Hexes expire 5...41...50% faster on target ally. When this Enchantment ends, one Hex is removed from that ally. |
I'd say Option 3 = [Avatar of Dwayna]x[Signet of Synergy]=[Withdraw Hexes]
Cebe
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lourens
[Holy Veil]>Option 2
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An Elite Holy Veil may work though. Not sure what you could do. Perhaps have the number of hexes removed scale with Divine Favor.
IronSheik
Well, withdraw means to me to take something out and then you have it, so I like it as a foul feast type of thing, with a max of 3 hexes removed every 2 seconds at 16 DF. It would just about match PnH since it can be spammed, but doesn't prevent them being reapplied right away
Bobulation
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Spike Stritter
i disagree.
Through my experience you run into conditons way more than hexes and there are only a select few that can really cripple you. if applying the RC concept to WH but obviosuly hexes instead of conditions i think it would be just as useful as RC: useful in areas with lots of hexes but pointless in areas with few to no hexes. now for the middle areas(moderate hexes) it would be a debatable skill, meaning should the monk elite be WoH, WH, ZB, etc. if someone proves what i said was wrong or inaccurate then maybe not change WH to like RC but at least change it since there are way better elites to be using(divert hexes anyone?) |
Age
You wouldn't see and decent Monk using this as it to costly and there are better elites to choose from.Don't forget about Hex Eater Vortex.
faraaz
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver
Or perhaps try to rework the spell into a Divine Boon or a Purifying Veil type of skill:
Option 1: 15 energy, -1 energy upkeep While you maintain this enchantment Monk spells targeting an ally remove one hex from that ally. When a hex is removed in this way you lose 6...2...2 energy or Withdraw Hexes ends. |
zwei2stein
5e, 1c, 5r
While you maintain this enchantment, target ally loses a Hex every 5 seconds. when hex is removed this way, that ally is healed for 10 ... 30 ... 35.
While you maintain this enchantment, target ally loses a Hex every 5 seconds. when hex is removed this way, that ally is healed for 10 ... 30 ... 35.
Lourens
Quote:
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Originally Posted by zwei2stein
5e, 1c, 5r
While you maintain this enchantment, target ally loses a Hex every 5 seconds. when hex is removed this way, that ally is healed for 10 ... 30 ... 35. |
Bullets Mcdeath
I think a draw conditions/foul feast for hexes would be fun.
Ariena Najea
[Withdraw Hexes]
Not that Monks particular need more Elite Hex Removal, but this skill needs some love. Rather than giving it a simplistic removal effect, what about giving it a unique function?
Elite Spell
10 Energy, 1/4 Casting Time, 3 Second Recharge
All hexes are transferred from target other ally to yourself. For each hex acquired, you gain 0...36 (3 per rank) Health and [email protected]^...[email protected]^...[email protected]^ Energy.
Powerful against hex stacking, but serving a different purpose than [[Peace and Harmony]. Although these two in conjunction would be pretty imba, devoting two Monk's Elites is rather excessive, particularly since this would require at least 12 in Divine Favor to reach the energy breakpoint. There would be some nice synergy with [[Spotless Mind], however, since the removal of hexes is only every 5 seconds it is not overpowered since at maximum only three hexes are removed anyways.
Thoughts? Ideas?
Not that Monks particular need more Elite Hex Removal, but this skill needs some love. Rather than giving it a simplistic removal effect, what about giving it a unique function?
Elite Spell
10 Energy, 1/4 Casting Time, 3 Second Recharge
All hexes are transferred from target other ally to yourself. For each hex acquired, you gain 0...36 (3 per rank) Health and [email protected]^...[email protected]^...[email protected]^ Energy.
Powerful against hex stacking, but serving a different purpose than [[Peace and Harmony]. Although these two in conjunction would be pretty imba, devoting two Monk's Elites is rather excessive, particularly since this would require at least 12 in Divine Favor to reach the energy breakpoint. There would be some nice synergy with [[Spotless Mind], however, since the removal of hexes is only every 5 seconds it is not overpowered since at maximum only three hexes are removed anyways.
Thoughts? Ideas?
lewis91
Its an improvement on an useless elite, but i think id still go with PaH.
Joseph Leito
Might be decent E-Management for the monk in a hex-heavy area. Good idea, but I doubt it gets implemented.
Snow Bunny
erm, PnH is still better.
FoxBat
I'd prefer something along the lines of:
"Remove all hexes that are on at least 2 party members."
Not sure how you would make this useable vs non-hex teams, but this kind of mechanic would be a good alternative to PnH/Divert stack removal - and a much better counter to Lingering Curse and the like.
"Remove all hexes that are on at least 2 party members."
Not sure how you would make this useable vs non-hex teams, but this kind of mechanic would be a good alternative to PnH/Divert stack removal - and a much better counter to Lingering Curse and the like.
laurana half elf
it would actually be better than PnH.
Think about it. Almost always, the only hexes i see run in high end gvg and tombs is [Lingering Curse] and [Suffering]. The former being covered by the latter. Now, very rarely do necros and mesmers actually "Stack Hexes", other than of course the shitty shame/diversion mesmers that cast them on top of each other.
Now other than removing shame/diversion which can easily be prevailed or pdrained or even "hexbreaker"ed if your really pro, pnh really does not serve much of a purpose in tombs or ha because when it comes down to it hexes don't usually get stacked and you really just want to remove the [lingering curse].
Although in relic runs the after effect of [Peace and harmony] really does help, dual veiling can almost serve the same purpose.
What i'm saying is that this suggested change to withdraw hexes might actually be worth it.
gogo flame me plx
Think about it. Almost always, the only hexes i see run in high end gvg and tombs is [Lingering Curse] and [Suffering]. The former being covered by the latter. Now, very rarely do necros and mesmers actually "Stack Hexes", other than of course the shitty shame/diversion mesmers that cast them on top of each other.
Now other than removing shame/diversion which can easily be prevailed or pdrained or even "hexbreaker"ed if your really pro, pnh really does not serve much of a purpose in tombs or ha because when it comes down to it hexes don't usually get stacked and you really just want to remove the [lingering curse].
Although in relic runs the after effect of [Peace and harmony] really does help, dual veiling can almost serve the same purpose.
What i'm saying is that this suggested change to withdraw hexes might actually be worth it.
gogo flame me plx
Zodiac Meteor
They can improve it, 15 energy is a waste.
Ariena Najea
My ideology is that the new version of the skill should be geared towards removing hexes on multiple opponents, however I decided that a party removal (similar to [[Extinguish] for hexes) would be near impossible to balance. It would be far too powerful versus most hexes, and still unable to deal with AoE-hexes such as [[Lingering Curse] and [[Suffering].
I designed my suggestion around drawing hexes since this allows for powerful single target manipulation, as well as multiple targets since repeatedly drawing the same hex would not cause them to stack.
Is [[Peace and Harmony] better? Against heavy hex stacks sure, but its 7 second recharge leaves AoE hexes on your party members.
I designed my suggestion around drawing hexes since this allows for powerful single target manipulation, as well as multiple targets since repeatedly drawing the same hex would not cause them to stack.
Is [[Peace and Harmony] better? Against heavy hex stacks sure, but its 7 second recharge leaves AoE hexes on your party members.
Bobulation
You shouldn't be trying to balance skills to PnH's level, because PnH is way over powered.
uzumaki
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bobulation
You shouldn't be trying to balance skills to PnH's level, because PnH is way over powered.
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Win.
Even with a strong hex like faintheartedness which has a rediculously low recharge compared to it's duration, you cannot keep up with the sheer power of PaH. Having to constantly rip PaH to keep frontliners fainted for a mere 7 seconds or less (HSR) before re-ripping and reapplying (not to mention enchant removal downtime) is harsh to say the least. Considering most enchant removals are easy to interrupt and PaH is virtually uninterruptable, PaH is the strongest skill gw has ever seen imo.
Awaiting a nerf.
The Air Revenger
so instead of removing all hexes and conditions with PnH you instead want me to draw all the hexes to myself? Sounds like a bad skill even if it does have E-Mangement