So.
I literally just watched one Arm of Insanity turn itself into five Arms of Insanity. I was trying to recover two of my teammates who were behind a veritable wall of Madness, Insanity, Corruption, etc. copies and ended up squaring off with a single Arm of Insanity. The story was the same each time. The Insanity would pop Lightning Reflexes, then Call to the Torment and lazily kneel down to invite his buddy. All the while, having lost my two main casters, I didn't have the juice to take this one Insanity down because he was blocking 75% of all attacks against a 6 man team.
Let's take a quick look at Call to the Torment.
"Skill. Creature kneels for 5 seconds and takes double damage. After 5 seconds, a duplicate of the creature is summoned to this location."
Looking past my frustration I do believe I have a valid point. Does it make sense for Lighting Reflexes to be in effect while a character is kneeling? Even in a very basic real world context it just doesn't fly. There were six of us left, and a completely immobile enemy was blocking nearly all of our attacks.
Does anyone else see a balance issue here?
Call to the Torment needs to Cancel out Lightning Reflexes
Pistachio
Dmitri3
See no balance issue here at all.
Puebert
No, as long as PvE skills exist, PvE will never be balanced.
No issue here.
No issue here.
Pistachio
Even beyond what I said earlier, I think it ruins the intent of the skill. It takes away the inherent vulnerability in using it and completely blows the odds that the players will kill the enemy out of proportion.
Alleji
[lightbringer's gaze]
MisterB
[Wild Blow]
[Wild Throw]
[Wild Strike]
[Whirling Axe]
Use damage other than attacks.
Fail less.
[Wild Throw]
[Wild Strike]
[Whirling Axe]
Use damage other than attacks.
Fail less.
zelgadissan
MisterB beat me to it. If you know you're going against them, bring stance removal. Easy peasy.
trankle
You have a couple options.
If you're playing with a team that utilizes a mix of attacks and spell damage, the spell damage is completely unaffected by the stance.
If you're playing with a team that utilizes all attack damage, then it would behoove you to bring one of the aforementioned stance ending skills. Alternately, bring a skill like [Rigor Mortis] or [defile defenses].
This really is just an issue of being prepared for the foes you know you'll encounter.
And don't try bringing "it isn't realistic" arguments into this. That's always a losing battle.
If you're playing with a team that utilizes a mix of attacks and spell damage, the spell damage is completely unaffected by the stance.
If you're playing with a team that utilizes all attack damage, then it would behoove you to bring one of the aforementioned stance ending skills. Alternately, bring a skill like [Rigor Mortis] or [defile defenses].
This really is just an issue of being prepared for the foes you know you'll encounter.
And don't try bringing "it isn't realistic" arguments into this. That's always a losing battle.
Alleji
I still don't understand why people don't have lightbringer's gaze equipped in RoT.
It interrupts that shit, you know?
It interrupts that shit, you know?
Pistachio
I understand there are skills to combat it. I knew that before this thread. That isn't the issue.
I simply don't think the pairing should exist. If you don't agree with me, that's fine. I see it as an imbalance issue, and also see it making no sense. I'm not arguing the game is unrealistic, that would be silly, which is why I said "in a very basic real world context", because this is, after all, a game with a real world base - like nearly every video game ever made.
I simply don't think the pairing should exist. If you don't agree with me, that's fine. I see it as an imbalance issue, and also see it making no sense. I'm not arguing the game is unrealistic, that would be silly, which is why I said "in a very basic real world context", because this is, after all, a game with a real world base - like nearly every video game ever made.
Dmitri3
Magic doesn't make sense either, let's make it realistic and remove it.
You can't change the skills based on how they're named. For example, how comes I can have Frenzy and Peace and Harmony on me at the same time? ...
No imbalance issue here, your fault you brought all physical team and didn't care to take something against blocking. Call to the Torment is supposed to be powerful, not that it is... it's just supposed to.
P.S. On a side note, you can't interrupt the call.
You can't change the skills based on how they're named. For example, how comes I can have Frenzy and Peace and Harmony on me at the same time? ...
No imbalance issue here, your fault you brought all physical team and didn't care to take something against blocking. Call to the Torment is supposed to be powerful, not that it is... it's just supposed to.
P.S. On a side note, you can't interrupt the call.
Shayne Hawke
I see no imbalance. An annoyance, yes. I remember having my fair share of troubles with them, especially after I had made a transition from NM play into HM play.
Bring Lightbringer's Gaze or change how you deal with mobs so that you won't have all of your power sapped by the time you're down to dealing with them.
Bring Lightbringer's Gaze or change how you deal with mobs so that you won't have all of your power sapped by the time you're down to dealing with them.
scoopins
you'd have no problems with more:
[discord]
[discord]
Pistachio
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dmitri3
Magic doesn't make sense either, let's make it realistic and remove it.
You can't change the skills on how they're named. For example, how comes I can have Frenzy and Peace and Harmony on me at the same time? ... |
Skill names were never my issue, nor did I ever make an argument for Guild Wars to be realistic. Reread the posts and make another reply if you actually feel like discussing. And read good this time.
MisterB
There is no balance issue. It's just a skill combination. A combination with counters. While using Call to Torment, they take double damage. Exploit one of the counters to blocking, and rip them apart in half the time thanks to the damage multiplier.
The whole kneeling while in a stance is not an issue.
The whole kneeling while in a stance is not an issue.
Shadowfox1125
So you're suggesting that Call to the Torment is much like a stance and therefore, shouldn't be able to stack with Lightning Reflexes?
Unfortunately, it's a skill. Work your way around it. You should be dealing armor-ignoring damage anyways.
Oh, and to your point that this is "a game with a real world base," you're not dealing with "humans," so who knows. Hell, perhaps while kneeling, he can still block attacks. The creature's blocking attacks, not evading them.
Unfortunately, it's a skill. Work your way around it. You should be dealing armor-ignoring damage anyways.
Oh, and to your point that this is "a game with a real world base," you're not dealing with "humans," so who knows. Hell, perhaps while kneeling, he can still block attacks. The creature's blocking attacks, not evading them.
Sora267
Quote:
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Originally Posted by scoopins
you'd have no problems with more:
[discord] |
Arkantos
There's no balance issue. There are skills to make your attacks unblockable, there are skills to end targets stance, and there are casters. It's PvE, the enemies are going to have the same skills each and every time you fight them. Learn to counter.
Dmitri3
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pistachio
You don't understand the thread.
Skill names were never my issue, nor did I ever make an argument for Guild Wars to be realistic. Reread the posts and make another reply if you actually feel like discussing. And read good this time. |
Take PvE skills if it's a balance issue to you, or better, learn to take advantage of skills, not just mashing attacks fast.
If you're having issues with the area, you could've just asked for advice. You however refused the advice provided here and instead just want Anet to make it a cakewalk for you. In that case, I say: learn to play the game.
Marty Silverblade
The point of GW is that you have 8 skills on each of your 8 team members.
Is it hard to fit a counter in there somewhere?
Is it hard to fit a counter in there somewhere?
notskorn
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pistachio
I understand there are skills to combat it. I knew that before this thread. That isn't the issue.
I simply don't think the pairing should exist. If you don't agree with me, that's fine. I see it as an imbalance issue, and also see it making no sense. I'm not arguing the game is unrealistic, that would be silly, which is why I said "in a very basic real world context", because this is, after all, a game with a real world base - like nearly every video game ever made. |
MagmaRed
Even without removing the stance (Wild Blow/Strike/Throw), you can easily find skills to hit even though the target is blocking (Sun and Moon Slash, Golden Fox Strike, Arcing SHot, etc.), or skills to prevent the blocking to occur (Rigor Mortis, Expose Defenses), or skills that go through blocking (Guided Weapon, Seeking Arrows, Warrior's Cunning, etc.), or even skills to punish blocking (Defile Defenses). In other words, take a counter.
Kneeling is not a stance. If you don't believe me, go out into an explorable and use a long lasting stance like Whilring Defense, then type in /kneel. You'll notice the Whirling Defense stance doesn't end because you kneel.
Have you noticed the number of people saying the same thing yet? *hint* Counters exist, you can use them. Maybe it is for a reason, and you should listen.
Kneeling is not a stance. If you don't believe me, go out into an explorable and use a long lasting stance like Whilring Defense, then type in /kneel. You'll notice the Whirling Defense stance doesn't end because you kneel.
Have you noticed the number of people saying the same thing yet? *hint* Counters exist, you can use them. Maybe it is for a reason, and you should listen.
Improvavel
Quote:
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Originally Posted by notskorn
Seems like you are just upset because you are bad at the game that has perhaps the easiest PvE ever. I guess I would be a little mad too.
|
Anyway - it is annoying but there are loads of tools to defeat it.
Wish Swiftdeath
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Improvavel
And you are playing that easiest PvE game ever for how long? You sure you aren't mad at that?
Anyway - it is annoying but there are loads of tools to defeat it. |
Konig Des Todes
While it does make sense that Call to the Torment would be a Stance - since the enemy kneels...(note, I am going by the definition of "stance" not the kind of skill - where a stance is a position) I think it's fine how it is because:
1) Renders your enemy immobile
2) Adds double damage to enemy
3) The stance is only on one profession
4) All end game enemies (and all of EN enemies) have something "unique" about them that makes them "harder" (Mursaat - Spectral Agony, Titans - respawning, Shiro'Ken - Song of the Mists, Torment Demons - Call to the Torment, etc. etc.)
5) It's easy to counter - there are only two professions that attack that do not have a stance removal - Ranger and Dervish, and blocks don't prevent spells.
6)Stances are not emotes.
/notsigned
1) Renders your enemy immobile
2) Adds double damage to enemy
3) The stance is only on one profession
4) All end game enemies (and all of EN enemies) have something "unique" about them that makes them "harder" (Mursaat - Spectral Agony, Titans - respawning, Shiro'Ken - Song of the Mists, Torment Demons - Call to the Torment, etc. etc.)
5) It's easy to counter - there are only two professions that attack that do not have a stance removal - Ranger and Dervish, and blocks don't prevent spells.
6)Stances are not emotes.
/notsigned
trankle
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pistachio
I see it as an imbalance issue, and also see it making no sense.
|
For what it's worth, any character can activate a stance while knocked down, which doesn't really make sense, but is a long-standing game mechanic.
The first part of your argument, however, I just don't understand. If we accept that a creature can kneel and use a stance at the same time, where is the imbalance? I would understand the imbalance if there were no way to end the stance, or damage through it, but it's been shown that there readily accessible options to do just that. If you're willing to spec for the foes in the area, where is the imbalance?
english storm
If a player casts LR then kneels down, does LR get removed? If it does then it also should on bad guys. IF not then leave it as it is.
Improvavel
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Wish Swiftdeath
you may not realise but PvE is not the be and end all of guild wars
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byteme!
I really don't see the issue here. You have a team of 8 people each carrying 8 skills. That's 64 skills at your teams disposal. Call to Torment and Lightnight Reflexes shouldn't even be a problem at all. The only "imbalance" is in your team build. In theory you should be steamrolling them monsters since they take double damage while under the effect of CoT. Why you aren't taking advantage of this isn't Anet's fault and there's nothing for them to fix.
Age
I found out that all those in rot don't like water damage so use spells like malestrom and mind freeze.
Melandrus Torment
Just remove the stance and hit them for big damage.
Coney
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pistachio
I literally just watched one Arm of Insanity turn itself into five Arms of Insanity.
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So you and 5 other XPC spent literally 80+ seconds focus firing this one nearly-dead AoI and couldn't drop it? CttT has a 20 second recharge.
Was QZ up? Does it affect CttT? I'd assume so, which means big trouble, as every 10 seconds it can double (and it can maintain LR for 11 of 15 seconds). TU can be kept up indefinitely regardless, so interrupt it...
If you couldn't kill him with 6/8 focus fired, perhaps you and the survivors should have regrouped and started over...
Hanging Man
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pistachio
I understand there are skills to combat it. I knew that before this thread. That isn't the issue.
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[skill]lightbringer's gaze[/skill]
doesn't matter what char i bring thats always on my bar for reasons like this
bhavv
Who could give a crap about using stance removal, anti block skills, defile defenses etc etc in NF when you can beat the whole damn game with 2 copies of one skill:
[searing flames]
???
I say make every enemy in GW degen proof, immune to all interupts, and give them permanent 75% blocking to balance the game.
[searing flames]
???
I say make every enemy in GW degen proof, immune to all interupts, and give them permanent 75% blocking to balance the game.