Need some suggestions for a MM hater.

Forgotton200

Forgotton200

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2008

Mo/

I like using the necro heroes because of the energy management but one thing I cannot stand is a MM. I was thinking of using texmod to erase the MM (the minions) out of my screen but I failed doing so due to lack of motivation.

Is it still decent replacing a MM with another restoration from n/rit for extra healing? I'm also running [save yourselves] on my character.

So it's something like this:

N/rit Livia curse necro
N/rit MoW restoration necro
N/rit Olias restoration necro

Thanks in advance.

Pocketmancer

Pocketmancer

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Minion Masters are a form of energy management for the Necro Trio. Otherwise, you can't expect nearly as much from your restoration necro. But whatever, that wasn't the answer you're looking for.

Changing it for another restoration necro probably wouldn't help as much. There's healing and there's overhealing. Overhealing is inefficient if you're bringing along Monk henchies because you're sacrificing extra damage for heals you don't need. Instead, what you can do with that necro is to make it fuel energy for other characters with Blood Ritual. This is an alternative to the lack of minions providing constant soul reaping energy for your other two necros. And with the blood skill track, there's a few skills that provide decent damage (not great damage, but decent damage) so you can still retain higher damage output than with two restoration necros.

Forgotton200

Forgotton200

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2008

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocketmancer View Post
Minion Masters are a form of energy management for the Necro Trio. Otherwise, you can't expect nearly as much from your restoration necro. But whatever, that wasn't the answer you're looking for.

Changing it for another restoration necro probably wouldn't help as much. There's healing and there's overhealing. Overhealing is inefficient if you're bringing along Monk henchies because you're sacrificing extra damage for heals you don't need. Instead, what you can do with that necro is to make it fuel energy for other characters with Blood Ritual. This is an alternative to the lack of minions providing constant soul reaping energy for your other two necros. And with the blood skill track, there's a few skills that provide decent damage (not great damage, but decent damage) so you can still retain higher damage output than with two restoration necros. I'll try that out, thank you.

fireflyry

fireflyry

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

New Zealand

A/D

Problem is the MM is symbiotic to the energy management you like so much.

Most of the time stuff is dropping fast enough but depending on how you play you may notice your heroes having more energy problems without minions going boom all over the place.

If you can get by without a bomber the options are really endless.

N/anything works for 99% of PvE.

Imo extra healing is overkill in most areas, your better off killing stuff than keeping red bars at full to fuel SR and make up for the lack of your MM bombers SR triggers.

Any decent N/E nuker bar with an AoE snare is pretty gravy in my experience.

In conclusion you just have to compensate and make sure mobs drop fast enough to fuel SR, extra healing you shouldn't need won't really help with that.

Good luck.

Edit:Good point by Pocketmancer too.Heroes use Blood Ritual to great effect....surprisingly.

Icy The Mage

Icy The Mage

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2008

Canada

E/

keep in mind heroes do not use blood ritual on character or other heroes equipped with martial weapons

dartz180

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2008

Hmmm... I don't know.

lfg guild

Alright, I was bored, and tried making that texmod you wanted, but it's nowhere near working state right now. The bone horror model is working, and so is the fiend. All other minions appear all black. If you wanted the mod, i could post it but i can guarantee you won't like black shapes all over the screen....

TheDragonmaster

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2008

R/

As people already have stated, minions fuel SR. Otherwise, consider an SV/Curse support for your third hero. Something like Spoil Victor, Blood Ritual, Enfeebling Blood, Weaken Armor, perhaps Anti-Block (Rigor Mortis or Defile Defenses) or Well of Blood, Rip/Strip Enchantment, Awaken the Blood, SoLS... and leave the powerful curses on your SS necro.

pingu666

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

guildhall

[DETH]

if u dont like the melee minions maybe u could try the fiends? the headless ones that shoot projectiles.

you could also look into using wells too i guess

http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Well...uick_reference

daze

daze

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2008

In my own mind

The Dragon Exchange

E/

I always like a N/Rt channeler instead of the 3rd N/Rt restorer.

Pocketmancer

Pocketmancer

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

The problem with wells if you're using a necro hero team is that most of the time, they don't benefit too much from them. Not to mention they're not too spammable.

[[Well of Blood] - Spammable but hardly worth it. Especially if you're using a restoration necro. Enemy casters that die won't be close to your casters. Enemy physicals will make our own casters scatter. A necro hero team won't feel the effects of Well of Blood sadly.

[[Well of Power] - Not as spammable as Well of Blood, but it faults for the same reasons. To make it worse, it's an elite, which you're better off using your elite slot for something else.

[[Well of Suffering] - The one of two somewhat decent one in PvE play. Sadly, health degen doesn't seem to do much in hard mode, where necro hero teams do their best. To make this one slightly worse for PvE play, its effects don't count as hexes so you can't use it as a mass hex fulfillment for Discord.

[[Well of the Profane] - The only one that's got decent effects. Strips enemies in the area of their enchantments and prevents them from being loaded on. Sadly, the 3 second cast time makes it rough to work with. That and there are better ways of removing enchants with necromancers.

[[Well of Darkness] - Effective against physical types. However, that would mean something close to your casters needs to have died first. In that event, you're better off with Ward Against Melee to receive similar effects.

[[Well of Ruin] - In a necro hero setup, without minion masters, the enemies will hardly ever take physical damage. Unless, of course, you equip your necromancers with spears or something.

[[Well of Silence] - Shouts and chants from enemies are hardly worth being afraid of.

[[Well of Weariness] - In hard mode, enemies have too much energy for -1 energy degen to make a difference.

With that happening, rather than using the corpses and making wells out of them, [[Putrid Explosion] causes a whole lot more pain on a different level. Not to mention necromancer heroes notice when an enemy has dropped way quicker than humans would.

FoxBat

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Amazon Basin [AB]

Mo/Me

Curses are kinda Meh without minions... if you have a party full of physicals, you can get them doing orders, which will help you pump more SY too. Para heroes are also known for their infinite energy...

Splinter is strong, you could toss that on anything like an earth ele, or go for 14 with a ritualist.

Dmitri3

Dmitri3

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Canada, almost got to see a polar bear... :P

You know you can always run something else instead of 3 necros...

Daesu

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

Rayway can also benefit from a snare if you dont use a MM.

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

Take Discord from pvx, get rid of all the minion crap give everyone a copy of putrid bile to make up for lack of minions exploding and u r winrar!

pingu666

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

guildhall

[DETH]

rayway may lead to blindness xD

Coney

Coney

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2008

Try playing with monk/para heros. GL w/necro energy mgmt, without minions dieing left/right...

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daesu
View Post
If you do that then you would run out of energy because the crappy discordway build in pvx doesn't even have SoLS, and you want to take out all the minions, which is your main SR factory, too?

Just go with Rayway. lol you dont need sols when you can kill fast so stop being terrible. Maybe what you run needs it but then it fails.

Daesu

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor
View Post
lol you dont need sols when you can kill fast so stop being terrible. Maybe what you run needs it but then it fails. You kill fast because you had your minion SR factory machine, without it, you are going to have problems keeping up that kill speed in a tough fight.

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daesu View Post
You kill fast because you had your minion SR factory machine, without it, you are going to have problems keeping up that kill speed in a tough fight. I kill fast because I kill fast, for Discord minions are icing on a cake - not a must have but good to have them. Ofc. you dont need minions and sols.

Daesu

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor View Post
I kill fast because I kill fast, for Discord minions are icing on a cake - not a must have but good to have them. Ofc. you dont need minions and sols. You still dont understand that you need energy to continue killing fast and in a tough fight even your restore healers can run low on energy. Without energy, your killing grinds to a halt. You should try testing it without minions and sols before you reply. Take your build to high level HM and just replace the minions with putrid like you suggested.

byteme!

byteme!

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

On Earth

W/P

In all fairness. You really shouldn't need both SoLS and minions to fuel SR. 1 or the other should be sufficient enough. If you find your kill rate is slowing to a halt make a few changes so you can kill faster or more efficiently.

You could always toss blood ritual on "1" of your necroes instead of tossing SoLS on all "3" necroes, therefore freeing up slots for more pew pew.

Forgotton200

Forgotton200

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2008

Mo/

Quote:
In all fairness. You really shouldn't need both SoLS and minions to fuel SR. 1 or the other should be sufficient enough. I see. I'll equip [signet of lost souls] because I'm running sabway, equip [putrid bile] and lose the minions, and make up the minion bomber with [putrid explosion]. I'm running [save yourselves] as well for extra defense to make up for the minion tanks.

As soon as I get unbanned, I'll try it out.

Daesu

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by byteme! View Post
In all fairness. You really shouldn't need both SoLS and minions to fuel SR. 1 or the other should be sufficient enough.
He is suggesting no minions AND no SoLS. If you read what he said on post #16:

Quote: Originally Posted by Super Igor
Take Discord from pvx, get rid of all the minion crap give everyone a copy of putrid bile to make up for lack of minions exploding and u r winrar! That pvx build doesn't have SoLS.

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_Discord_Spam

Quote:
If you find your kill rate is slowing to a halt make a few changes so you can kill faster or more efficiently.

You could always toss blood ritual on "1" of your necroes instead of tossing SoLS on all "3" necroes, therefore freeing up slots for more pew pew. Since there are 3 minion skills to replace, it makes sense to have 3 SoLS. Bringing 1 BR would have a single point of failure.

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daesu View Post
That pvx build doesn't have SoLS.

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_Discord_Spam
No it doesnt have SoLS because it has Minions, duh.



Quote:
Since there are 3 minion skills to replace, it makes sense to have 3 SoLS. Bringing 1 BR would have a single point of failure. Thanks for pointing out the obvious.

Omgopolis

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2007

W/

You really shouldn't need SoLS if you have minions running around, and you probably shouldn't need it even if you don't.

The only time I could see energy problems occurring with necros is if you had a bunch of splinter weapons flying around and blowing up mobs so fast that your heroes gain 30ish energy at once early in a fight, and soul reaping doesn't trigger for another 15 seconds or so. If that's the case though, then you're probably blowing up stuff so fast that you don't need to worry about running out of energy.

If you run out of energy because nothing is dying then you need moar damage.