List of NPCs with Ineffective Builds due to Updates

At the beginning of January, it was brought up on Linsey's Talk Page that builds have been affectively changed by skill functionality changes. One such thing brought up were Luxon Assassins.

Here are two of Linsey's responses to that (as multiple sections on this was made):
So the purpose of this thread is to find NPCs, both hostile and non-hostile, who's build was drastically changed from skill functionality changes.

This does not include builds that have poor synergy (although including those may push Anet to make the HM versions, at least, better). So if it is listed due to poor synergy, state so.

Format of List:
The list is sorted by Profession, then by Monsters/Bosses. If builds are the same, they will be grouped together, if just one skill is different, that monster will get a new listing. The naming will go like this:

Name (Skill Issue - Problem - Possible Solutions)

Warrior
Spoiler-related boss (Tactics Attribute at 0 with 2 Tactics skills - Spend some attribute points in his Tactics line) *Note: This was added as the build has issues - even though it is not due to an update*

Current: [Deadly Riposte][Final Thrust][Hundred Blades][Thrill of Victory]

Elementalist
Captain Mwende ([[Master of Magic] - Nerfed in HM - Remove reduction effect)

Current: [Aura of Restoration][Fireball][Master of Magic][Meteor]

Kournan (Elite) Scribe/Admiral Kantoh/Captain Nebo ([[Master of Magic] - Nerfed in HM - Remove reduction effect)

Current: [Aftershock][Aura of Restoration][Fireball][Master of Magic][Meteor]

Hajok Earthguardian (Insect) ([[Master of Magic] - Nerfed in HM - Remove reduction effect)

Current: [Armor of Earth][Aura of Restoration][Master of Magic][Stone Daggers][Stoning]

Rock Beetle ([[Master of Magic] - Nerfed in HM - Remove reduction effect)

Current: [Armor of Earth][Master of Magic][Stone Daggers][Stoning]

Ranger
Vatlaaw Doomtooth ([[Barrage] + [[Ignite Arrows] - Barrage cancels the preparation - )

Current: [Barrage][Favorable Winds][ignite Arrows]

Frostmaw Spawn ([[Barrage] - Doesn't use Barrage - Give them a bow or remove elite) *Note: This was added as the build has issues - even though it is not due to an update*

Current: [Barrage][Wurm Bile]

Nerashi ([[Scavenger's Focus]/[[Prepared Shot]/[[Escape] - No preparation and three elites - Change build)*Note: This was added as the build has issues - even though it is not a problem*

Current: [Escape][Pin Down][Scavenger's Focus][Prepared Shot][Troll Unguent]

Jungle Guardian/Redwood Shepherd ([[Debilitating Shot] - No Marksmanship in NM - Put points in Marksmanship)

Current: [Debilitating Shot][Primal Echoes]

Docu Kindleshot/Groknar Weazlewortz ([[Barrage] + [[Ignite Arrows] - Barrage cancels the preparation)

Current: [Barrage][Dual Shot][Ignite Arrows][Savage Shot][Troll Unguent]

Necromancer
Risen Ashen Hulk ([[Aura of the Lich] - Synergy issue/Death buffing skill in a Blood/Curses build - Change to a Death build) *Note: This was added not because the build has major issues, but because the elite is no longer used well - no change is needed but a change would not hurt*

Current: [Aura of the Lich][Shadow of Fear][Shadow Strike][Strip Enchantment]

Shadow Vaettirs ([[Cultist's Fervor]/[[Dark Aura] - synergy issue/no saccing skills anymore to work with Dark Aura - Change build to include saccing skills or change Dark Aura)

Current: [Cultist's Fervor][Dark Aura][Mark of Subversion][Unholy Feast][Vampiric Gaze]

Monk
Brother Pe Wan ([[Life Sheath] - in Disenchantment Course quest, constant re-appliance - Change the enchantment to something with a longer recharge/duration)

Current: [Life Sheath]

Seaguard Gita & Redemptor Karl ([[Life Seath] - massive condition removal - change build)

Current: [Aegis][Draw Conditions][Life Sheath][Mend Ailment][Rebirth][Spirit Bond][Reversal of Fortune]

Mesmer


Assassin
Luxon Assassins ([[Black Lotus Strike] - changed to Lead and no off-hand - add in an Off-Hand attack)

Current: [Black Lotus Strike][Death Blossom][Horns of the Ox][Iron Palm][Way of the Empty Palm]

Ilidus of the Empty Palm ([[Black Lotus Strike] - changed to Lead and no off-hand - add in an Off-Hand attack)

Current: [Black Lotus Strike][Horns of the Ox][Iron Palm][Shadow Refuge][Way of the Empty Palm]

Senkai, Lord of the 1,000 Daggers Guild ([[Black Lotus Strike] - changed to Lead and no off-hand - add in an Off-Hand attack)

Current: [Black Lotus Strike][Horns of the Ox][Iron Palm][Way of the Empty Palm]

Nika in the Norn Fighting Tournament ([[Black Locus Strike] - Changed to Lead and no off-hand - add in an Off-Hand attack)

Current: [Black Lotus Strike][Expose Defenses][Horns of the Ox][Shadow Refuge][Siphon Speed][Shattering Assault]

Ritualist
Consort of Ruin ([[Xinrae's Weapon] - Moved to Restoration - Just put points in Restoration or change build to fit Restoration)

Current: [Empowerment][Mighty Was Vorizun][Pain][Renewing ][Xinrae's Weapon]

Warden of the Summer ([[Consume Soul] - No Spawning Power *only issue in Hard Mode* - Add Spawning Power attribute points.)

Current: [Consume Soul][Spirit Light][Splinter Weapon]

Warden of Seasons ([[Consume Soul] - No Spawning Power *only issue in Hard Mode* - Add Spawning Power attribute points.)

Current: [Consume Soul][Recuperation][Spirit Light][Splinter Weapon]

Maddened Spirit Warden ([[Consume Soul] - No Spawning Power *unconfirmed issue in Hard Mode*- Add Spawning Power attribute points.)

Current: [Consume Soul][Recuperation][Resilient Weapon][Spirit Light][Splinter Weapon]

Dervish
Madness Titans ([[Vow of Strength] - was changed - change build to fit new functionality of elite)

Current: [Mirage Cloak][Mystic Regeneration][Mystic Sandstorm][Sand Shards][Vow of Strength]

Thorn Beetle ([[Vow of Strength] - was changed - change build to fit new functionality of elite)

Current: [Aura of Thorns][Dust Cloak][Mirage Cloak][Mystic Sandstorm][Vow of Strength]

Ensign Jahan/Captain Mhedi/Corsair Grappler ([[Vow of Strength] - was changed - change build to fit new functionality of elite)

Current: [Armor of Sanctity][Aura of Thorns][Reap Impurities][Vital Boon][Vow of Strength][Corsair's Net]

Corsair Marauder ([[Vow of Strength] - was changed - change build to fit new functionality of elite)

Current: [Aura of Thorns][Reap Impurities][Vow of Strength][Corsair's Net]

Corsair Berserker (not BMP version - HM only) ([[Vow of Strength] - was changed - change build to fit new functionality of elite)

Current: [Reap Impurities][Vow of Strength][Corsair's Net]

Onslaught of Terror/Emissary of Dhuum/Scythe of Chaos ([[Onslaught]/[[Whirling Charge] - both have same purpose - replace Whirling Charge for another stance)

Current: [Chilling Victory (PvE)][Eremite's Attack (PvE)][Lyssa's Assault][Onslaught][Whirling Charge][Zealous Renewal]

Paragon
Kormir (Whole Build - Skills either only affect her or only uses when taking damage via indirect skills - Change AI to act as an ally that uses skills to help allies *aka, supporter AI on avoid* and give ally supporting skills, not party)

Current: ["Incoming!"][Ballad of Restoration][Leader's Comfort]

(Elder) Skree Singer ([["Incoming!"] - along with [["Charge!"] from Skree Raider is unneeded - Change either Skree Singer or Skree Raider's elite or functionality of "Incoming!")

Current: [Aggressive Refrain][Harrier's Toss]["Incoming!"]["We Shall Return!"][Wild Throw]

Any and all help in fixing these would be helpful. Changes would mostly relate to Elite skills, but some non-elites, even old changes, should be included. I shall update the list with what I, and others, find daily.

wait...
u mean when anet does skill balancing, they dun take into consideration the feelings of the npcs?!?!
wut jerks ;___;

Kormir is better now since Incoming affects us as well as her

Yeah but Kormir is a jerk anyway... Worst NPC ever imo. Worse than Togo. (Damn slow ass)

Kormir... Is the ONLY NPC I can think of... That could cause you to fail a bonus. :< Why the hell does she attack sunspear ghosts? Sure, she (likely) won't kill them, but she's the only NPC I can think of that has the capability of entirely screwing you over, and actively attempts to do so.

I actually listed her for two reasons:
1) Her other skills do not affect us, only her
2) She only uses the skill when she is attacked by indirect skills.

So while it affects us as well, she will hardly use it, and the other skills she will not use to affect us.

Nothing comes to mind at the moment, but I'd suggest mentioning what the problematic skills are when listing issues. Not that Anet would necessarily need that information, but it might help people come up with others. You know, prompt an "oh, [npc] uses that skill, too... maybe we should look at that" reaction.

For a thread like this to be successful, you should list the skill bars(in gwbbcode, preferably), along with a brief explanation of the perceived problem, and/or proposed solution.

Does the change in Master of Magic to have a hard attribute limit of 12 gimp any significant mobs/bosses in HM? You'd think in HM they'd be better off (balance-wise) running with higher attributes than that.



Actually, yes, Captain Mwende's mob from Consulate Docks is nerfed by this. There used to be a pretty hard-hitting spike when you walked in his doorway (usually took out one of my heroes or close to it), but now his mob would barely put a dent in you (if he or his mob actually casts MoM). It's not uncommon for mobs of the same class around a boss to carry the same elite as well. I can understand that Mwende would need to carry the skill for cap purposes, but it might be fruitful to take it off of the eles in his supporting cast (the Kournan Scribes). Scribes in general (not just in Consulate Docks, but all over Kourna) have traditionally been heavy spikers, but not sure they'd be so much anymore. On the other hand, there are mobs with multiple Scribes when vanquishing Dejarin Estate that I remember being annoying as hell with max power. Maybe we should let them suffer.

Updated the OP with a new format (by suggestions of Raul and MisterB) and added Master of Magic and those that use it.

Just came across one.

Dervish
Thorn Beetle ([[Vow of Strength] was changed - change build to fit new functionality of elite)

Current [Aura of Thorns][Dust Cloak][Mirage Cloak][Mystic Sandstorm][Vow of Strength]

The fleshreaver hounds in Ragar's menagerie with the updated [RoJ] are now really hard. Actually any critter that uses [RoJ] is now substantially deadlier since H/H tend to stand in aoe.

Ps. Thanks =P

@StormX - Skill Icon thread is stickied in Campfire "NEW! gwBBCode Tutorial"

This boss has been gimped since the beginning, not because of latest update.

Warrior
Spoiler-related boss (Tactics Attribute at 0 with 2 Tactics skills - Spend some attribute points in his Tactics line)

Current [Deadly Riposte] [Final Thrust][Hundred Blades] [Thrill of Victory]

---------

Frostmaw Spawn doesn't use Barrage, yet the skill can be captured from it using Signet of Capture.

Ranger
Frostmaw Spawn (Doesn't use Barrage - Give them a bow?)

Current [Barrage] [Wurm Bile]

Seaguard Gita & Redemptor Karl (Factions Prot. Hench)

[Aegis] [Draw Conditions] [Life Sheath] [Mend Ailment] [Rebirth] [Spirit Bond] [Reversal of Fortune]

Condition Removal anyone? - Energy hungry Aegis and SB spam...

Dont even get me started on /Rebith during battle...

I don't understand the issue as stated for the Risen Ashen Hulks. According to the wiki, their attributes are 16 Soul Reaping, 16 Death Magic, 13 Blood Magic, 10 Curses. That's perfectly suited to a mixed build. To me the issue is that Aura of the Lich is not primarily a buff now, but raises minions, which makes the mission more difficult by adding to the number of foes as well as depriving the player of corpses to exploit. My suggestion would be to drop AotL and substitute another elite. Perhaps [Tainted Flesh]? Or redistribute attributes and switch to a Blood or Curses build.

BrettM, first I will say I did not notice the attribute settings - with that I suppose it would fit a cross-build - but my main point was to have a death magic buffing skill with no real way to benefit from it. Also, we cannot remove the elite from that monster and it's boss version, as it is the only monster that has that elite. Same with most other monsters, especially in Prophecies. With monsters, it needs to be more of "how can we work with that Elite" rather than "what elite would go with the build"

-goes to update OP with Arduinna's and Shadow Slave's info-

Intresting. I'll do some research on some NPCs when I get home.

The bosses with [Visions of Regret] are a bit nasty to the average player solo with hech/hero crew. Since it affects adjacent characters, and we all know hench/heros are not happy unless standing in your shadow. Careful planning of flags helps but it still seems a little harder then the average boss. IMO

ROFL, true.

Togo needs fixing.

[Vengeful Was Khanhei][Recuperation][Spirit Burn][Spirit Rift][Vengeful Weapon]

I have yet see him use [[Vengeful Was Khanhei]. Here is a crazy but smart idea so it makes Togo seem like a non-weakness useless NPC.

<table style="border: 0pt none ; text-align: center; font-size: smaller;"><tbody><tr valign="top"><td style="border: 1px dotted rgb(68, 68, 68); width: 68px;">
Call to the Spirit Realm
</td><td style="border: 1px dotted rgb(68, 68, 68); width: 68px;">
Essence Strike (Togo)
</td><td style="border: 1px dotted rgb(68, 68, 68); width: 68px;">
Spirit Burn (Togo)
</td><td style="border: 1px dotted rgb(68, 68, 68); width: 68px;">
Spirit Rift (Togo)
</td><td style="border: 1px dotted rgb(68, 68, 68); width: 68px;">
Mend Body and Soul (Togo)
</td><td style="border: 1px dotted rgb(68, 68, 68); width: 68px;">
Offering of Spirit (Togo)
</td><td style="border: 1px dotted rgb(68, 68, 68); width: 68px;">
Disenchantment (Togo)
</td><td style="border: 1px dotted rgb(68, 68, 68); width: 68px;">
Dragon Empire Rage
</td></tr></tbody></table>
Bonus mission pack skills anyone?

Nerashi - apart from the hax of having three Elite skills, one of which she can't use properly anymore due to skill change.

[Escape][Pin Down][Scavenger's Focus][Prepared Shot][Troll Unguent]

Prep Shot has no prep thanks to Scavenger's Focus change.

Edit: the official wiki's description made me chuckle the first time I read it:
"She appears to have mastered the art of bringing multiple elite skills with her, and seems to feel no obligation to share how with her comrades."

Nerashi is strong, I want her for a henchie

dragon empire rage <3

Stefan, Fighter Henchman

Profession: Warrior
Armament: Sword and Shield

Skills used

• Balanced Stance
• Griffon's Sweep
• Healing Signet
• Power Attack
• Resurrection Signet
• Sprint

Dialogue

<dl><dd>"Are you here to just talk, or is there some real bravery in that gut of yours? My sword is sharp, my shield is strong, and I'm itching for a good fight. Are you going to stand there all day, or are we going to go find some trouble?"</dd></dl>He does bad damage, doesn't have a sword attack skill, has sprint?! And is a liar!

Just a note ~ my main issue with Life Sheath on the Prot Hench was the 3x Condition removals....while doing pretty much nothing of value.

Spamming RoF and Life Sheath is one of their 'better' *cough* abilites. (That is before they lose all their energy via rebirth or SB spam) >.>

Well I'm back after several years absence. I was excited to see the changes, and explore the new areas (GW:EoN etc). And was settling in nicely, Then I made the cardinal mistake, I started reading the GW site and the updates.

FWIW, to the developers et al. You will NEVER achieve balance. Why? You can balance the skills until they are absolutely even, and nothing will change. Those that will invest more time will always rise above those that do not. PVP in any form will never be fair, some will live in game and learn every nuance. Others play a few hours a month and become upset when they are rapidly defeated.

It's a shame really, GW has so much potential, but lacks an overall scope of how their changes negatively effect their player base. Seems many players in game come back here (like myself) because there is no monthly fee. But they will leave just as easily when something new is released. I wonder if this is why GW has postponed GW2.

Seems the game is more of an avatar driven chat program now. Oh well the price is right.. LOL

I'm not going to add VoR, Togo, or Stefan because VoR is not gimping any NPC builds in comparison to the old version (until further proven otherwise) and the NPCs do not have builds that were harmed from updates. Even though pretty much all Henchmen builds should be taken note of for changing - along with ally npc's as they are all, for the most part, bad on their own.

This thread is for builds that have been gimped by updates, not that were bad from the beginning.

Funn thread didn't know narashi was so special

I'd like to note from Linsey's Journal:

Wednesday, February 11th 2009
Just a quick note for the people working on a list for me of dysfunctional mob bars due to skill updates. I am not looking for any feedback on Henchmen or AI issues. What I am looking for is monsters who have had their skill bars rendered obsolete due to skill updates changing functionality. AI issues can be reported here and as for Henchmen... well that is another story to be dealt with at a later date. Thanks for your help!

So for now lets just focus on monsters that need their bars changed.

Deadly Lavastriders in Kathandrax are also "broken" by the BLS nerf- earlier they could get blossom off twice with the two skip off hands, and this monster is a clear reference to the once-imba Shadow Prison pvp builds.

[Black Lotus Strike][Black Spider Strike][Critical Defenses][Death Blossom][Shadowy Burden][Shadow Prison]

Seaguard Hala as well as heroes don't use [Power Leech] correctly under the new functionality; they cast it as if it were a fire-and-forget hex, instead of using it as an interrupt. Because Hala is also the boss where you cap the skill and NPCs clearly know how to use interrupts, just fix the AI for this one.

Also what is that warrior boss doing there, the 100b update isn't what made his tactics skill useless.

Ranger
Vatlaaw Doomtooth ([[Barrage] + [[Ignite Arrows] - Barrage cancels the preparation - )

Current [Barrage][Favorable Winds][ignite Arrows]

Ranger
Docu Kindleshot ([[Barrage] + [[Ignite Arrows] - Barrage cancels the preparation)

Current: [Barrage][Dual Shot][Ignite Arrows][Savage Shot][Troll Unguent]

Groknar Weazlewortz has the same skill bar.

This isn't a broken skillbar per se, but I do agree that it's a very big issue. The hero/hench AI failure to flee this skill makes some areas virtually impossible to H/H in HM; and the monster AI failure to flee this skill leads to some really degenerate player builds.

Travelling through the Realm of Torment today on my sin, and I noticed that the Onslaught of Terror, Emissary of Dhuum, and Scythe of Chaos all use both Onslaught and Whirling Charge; both make you move and attack 25% faster, one is enchantment, one is stance. It's not really broken, but a tad redundant. Don't know if that really counts or not.

Edit: forgot to include the builds:
[Chilling Victory (PvE)][Eremite's Attack (PvE)][Lyssa's Assault][Onslaught][Whirling Charge][Zealous Renewal]

Plus Call to the Torment on the Scythe of Chaos.

The Shadow Vaettirs in EoTN are pretty pathetic now... Cultist's fervor inflicting bleeding rather than causing health sacrifice makes it so that their dark aura never triggers.

Full build :
* Cultist's Fervor
* Dark Aura
* Mark of Subversion
* Unholy Feast
* Vampiric Gaze

So, 2/5 of their skill bar is useless, including their elite.

The rest of their bar isn't especially menacing either, to be honest.

Change the elite skill for one, secondly....

either replace dark aura or change/add in skills with health sacrifice.

Just a small Typo.

Was going to point out Barrage+Preps, but it's already been done.

Mwah, if these bars are making bosses eaiser... I dunno why everyone's helping to make them strong again.

IDK if this was something that resulted from a recent change, or if they've always been this way, but the Ritualist Wardens in factions use [[Consume Soul] as their elite even though they have 0 spawning power. Sure, it's irritating for a spirit spammer or MM, but I laugh when an ELITE skill hits my toon for 5 damage (or rather, 5 life stealing).

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Warden_of_Seasons
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Warden_of_the_Summer

Omg that's so funny!