@Anet: Is it realistic to ask more recources from NCsoft for GW?

Gun Pierson

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

First of all I would like to explain that I'm not talking about taking recources away from GW2. That said can Anet convince NCsoft to fund some extra people on GW1? Would it be a good move?

They're a few arguments I can think of why this may seem interesting for all sides:

1) Anet: it would mean they could hire some junior devs who could learn the do's and don'ts under a senior. So in some time they'll be seniors themselves within Anet. A healthy thing to do imo.

It will also strengthen the feeling Anet still strongly support GW, even more than they do now. And it doesn't get in the way of the 'total silence about gw2' strat.

2)playerbase: would get more content faster and other things to keep us busy until GW2.

Can even bring in some bucks, which may be a good argument to convince NCsoft. For example a mini expansion like 'Sorrow's Furnace' for like 5-10 euro in the online store. Seeing that people still buy stuff, it's almost guaranteed a mini expansion will be massively bought.

A lot will depend on what the economists and analysts at NCsoft calculate, if enough money can be made from it to cover the costs or not.

Age

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

I would say a lot of the resources went to to Aion.

Dr.Jones

Dr.Jones

Banned

Join Date: Jul 2008

first off i think ncsoft is anets publisher not there boss. i could be wrong about that but from what i read anet dose the highering and makes the decisions behind the game where as ncsoft gets them the recorces they need to market the game and sell it.

hallomik

hallomik

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

The Illini Tribe

N/Mo

Anet recently increased the GW1 dev staff from 1 to 2, so they're headed in that direction a little bit. I would like to see some more content, too, and I'd be happy to pay for it.

I don't know how many people listened to that 4th quarter earnings report in its entirety, but one of the questions was about what items they planned to offer for sale in their in-game store for one of their new games (I forget which new game - not GW 1 or 2). The answer provided was basically, (paraphrasing here) "We don't know. It will depend on what the players ask for." Therefore, if there is enough community clamoring for more content and a willingness to pay for it, more paid content could be offered.

On the other hand, they are activating 200,000 new accounts each quarter. They may be happy with that revenue stream - a figure that has held steady for each of the last 3 quarters. If they perceive more of their revenue to come from new accounts instead of existing players purchasing more content, new content is unlikely.

One key factor that plays into that is how many existing, active players have purchased all options (all three chapters, the EOTN expansion, the BMP, a few slots, and the GOTY edition, etc.). If that percent is relatively low, I wouldn't bet on any new content, as there is still plenty of room to grow by them doing little.

Lycan Nibbler

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2006

AZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Jones View Post
first off i think ncsoft is anets publisher not there boss. i could be wrong about that but from what i read anet dose the highering and makes the decisions behind the game where as ncsoft gets them the recorces they need to market the game and sell it.
anet is a subsidiary on NCSoft so I would suspect NCSoft has the final decision on budgets etc.

Regina Buenaobra

Regina Buenaobra

ArenaNet

Join Date: Apr 2008

Me/

We have had two people on the Live Team since last summer, one designer and one programmer. We already asked for and received approval to add another person to the Live Team to help us maintain GW1. We mentioned this in the January 15 Developer Update.

EDIT:

Apparently I misspoke. We are definitely adding resources to the Live Team, but it's not going to be one person. What we're going to be doing is getting more of multiple existing staff members' time to work on GW1.

Gun Pierson

Gun Pierson

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Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

Yes, but I was more thinking in the line of doubling the team to 5-6 people or is that unacceptable? Maybe even up to 10.

I think it's an opportunity.

FoxBat

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Amazon Basin [AB]

Mo/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Pierson View Post
Yes, but I was more thinking in the line of doubling the team to 5-6 people or is that unacceptable? Maybe even up to 10.
So exactly which profits are going to fund these people?

Gun Pierson

Gun Pierson

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Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

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Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxBat View Post
So exactly which profits are going to fund these people?
Things we as the community would like (all within reason and common sense ofcourse) and would pay for through the online shop.

You guys have enough fantasy to fill me in on that. One example I think of are the gods that don't have an elite area by accessing their monument in e.g. ToA yet. I think it will sell.

Or an armor pack, like 5 new (elite) armor designs per class. Could be DoA armor or what not. It's just an example, don't kill me yet.

pumpkin pie

pumpkin pie

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Join Date: Jul 2006

behind you

bumble bee

E/

it is no where near realistic imho.
training juniors will take up a lot of time from the seniors. not to mention if they mess up and the need to patch things would means even more works then is already required. we need people that could do the job and not mess up.

If my suspicion is correct, if and when Anet decided to add 10 professionals to work on the live team, players are gonna ask for even more.

i am not so sure about game coding but how will the job be divided between these 10 people working on the live team? you can't expect one person to be nerfing one skills or 10 person working on the storage issue? its a waste of human resources.

just a thought.

Regina Buenaobra

Regina Buenaobra

ArenaNet

Join Date: Apr 2008

Me/

It's not realistic to ask for 10 people. We are hiring at ArenaNet, but it's not for GW1.

s73ve_o

s73ve_o

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

W/

i think the other gods' versions of UW and FoW are ideas that i personally have wanted added since i first talked to the avatar of dwayna and they asked for an offer but i couldnt give one. it is something that should have been there from the start and i would probably pay for it.
As far as the armor goes i really wouldnt care that much, but im guessing it wouldnt be worth the effort just to add more player skins

Silverhand

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2007

Virtual Benchwarmers [VB]

I personally would rather have new elite areas(in regards to domains for gods) rather than get new elite armor sets

fireflyry

fireflyry

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

New Zealand

A/D

Imo it's only justifiable if it's needed.

No plans for any large form of new content, in my mind, means there is really no need to ask or expect more resources.

GW1 just needs to tick along, as is,...doesn't it?

Silverhand

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2007

Virtual Benchwarmers [VB]

Quote:
Originally Posted by fireflyry View Post
Imo it's only justifiable if it's needed.

No plans for any large form of new content, in my mind, means there is really no need to ask or expect more resources.

GW1 just needs to tick along, as is,...doesn't it?
Well I hope they have plans for new content because based on the letter posted on the website. We have a long wait for gw2 and I don't know how large the player base will be if there is a long wait with no new content at all

fireflyry

fireflyry

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Join Date: Jan 2007

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A/D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverhand View Post
Well I hope they have plans for new content because based on the letter posted on the website. We have a long wait for gw2 and I don't know how large the player base will be if there is a long wait with no new content at all
That's kind of my point though.

People are assuming GW2 will need fanbase from GW1 to be viable and/or successful.

Wrong.

I think it's hard to really get a grasp on how incorrect this is when primarily discussed on a GW1 forum full of qq and whiny vets.It's easy to assume that, based on the complaints here, GW2 is going to be utter fail for the way they have ended the game.

Problem is this forums opinion is 100% minority and by the time GW2 rolls out will be largely irrelevant.

"GW1 ended badly and I will never buy GW2 because I'm so angry and annoyed!!!!!Grrrr!!!!"

Yup...see 95% of you in GW2 when your over it.

It's also non-subscription.

People really have no right to demand new content or resources, it's not like anyone here didn't get their monies worth.

Once people actually compute the differentiation between the non-subscription and subscription formats and adjust their expectations accordingly they will have a much easier time of it and realize their anger and disappointment was wholly misplaced, based on little more than false expectations.

GW1 is largely done and just needs a couple of minders.

If that's an issue move on imo.

Silverhand

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2007

Virtual Benchwarmers [VB]

I'm not angry I was just pointing out another view
I have plenty to do before gw2
Actually i Just now beat eotn yesterday
So I'm by no means finish
Besides I've played for close to 4 years
So I figure I'm along for the rest of the ride that is gw
I suppose il c u in gw2 as well

fireflyry

fireflyry

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

New Zealand

A/D

Fo sho dude.

Good luck to you.

Konig Des Todes

Konig Des Todes

Ooo, pretty flower

Join Date: Jan 2008

Citadel of the Decayed

The Archivists' Sanctum [Lore]

N/

To all those wanting new areas in GW1 - It is, for the most part, not possible unless they pull resources from GW2 or add 10 or more people - which as Regina said in this thread, is not possible.

Not too long ago, Linsey did a basic overview of what is needed for a new area:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linsey Murdock
First I would like to break down for you guys what is needed to set up a new zone ("elite" status or otherwise) including how many different people it takes and then I will talk a little bit about new content in general. A new zone requires these things:
1. Map: This means a level designer to work with the lead on the project to get down the layout and flow of the zone. It then gets kicked over to the level artists who will lay down all the terrain textures, wall cladding, lighting, props etc to turn the zone into the final product. While the level artist is working on that, another artist is needed to create new textures and props to support the new aesthetic of the map for the level artist to use (even if we reuse a majority of existing assets, some of this is still needed). An effects artist will also likely be needed for new effects which add to the aesthetic of the zone. Then we need the level designer to generate the mini map and get the map hooked up in the world.

2. Design: A designer is needed to detail out the overall design and drive the project. A couple other designers are needed to assist in designing and writing all of the quests, NPCs, mechanics, chatter, etc. <This could be done by one person, but as a frame of reference, to introduce M.O.X. as a new hero with his quests it took one designer to drive the design of M.O.X himself, Me to design the overall design of the four quests, and two other designers to design the details of two of those quests all over the course of two months and believe me when I say it was still stressful and tight on time.> A writer is needed to go through all the text making edits for spelling, grammar and awesomeness. Once those edits are done, Jeff Grubb does a continuity pass for any red flags and a last round of edits are made. Then the text goes to localization where a team of people translate everything into the languages we support. A designer is needed to design out all the creature armies, their skill sets, themes, etc. An item designer is needed to design any special items functionality (things like consumables, green items, etc) as well as design out what loot can drop in the zone and all of their drop rates.

3. Art: A concept artist is needed to concept out the overall aesthetic of the zone, any armor, weapons, NPCs, new architecture, bosses, monsters, etc. Everything gets concepted before being made. A character artist makes any armor pieces needed as well as new NPC models. A creature artist makes any new creatures (reskins or otherwise). An animator is needed to animate any new models or adjust animations that are disfigured based on the reskinning (for instance, M.O.X. needed some substantial help to get him moving and using his anims properly at his size. He used to float around a lot and not in a good way). A prop artist is needed to create any new items that can't use the amazingly versatile "red bag" model. A concept artist is needed to make any new inventory or skill icons. If we make anything like books or other containers (like the Moa incubator) then we need a graphic/UI artist to fix up the images on each page or to create the UI art. An effects artist is needed to make any skill effects.

4. Implementation: A creature designer makes all the species needed (that's NPCs, monsters, and any other things which are spawned), this is usually someone who's entire join is creating species, but it can be done by two or three of the regular designers like myself who have been trained in how to set this delicate stuff up. The item designer hooks up all the inventory and bundles items needed. Again this is something that another designer can technically be trained to do but items are even harder than species so it generally falls to the one man who knows everything about our item system. Same deal with setting up the loot lists and drop rates, but this is even more scary and delicate so it isn't easy for someone who is not intimately familiar with the system to pick it up and get it done without serious training. The designers on the project then take all the species generated and script out all the spawns for the base spawn, the quests, any special NPCs etc. Once the spawns are down in at least their most basic state, it can be sent to a content programmer who hooks up all the quests, special mechanics, special items, skills, monster and NPC AI, etc. New sounds need to be recorded and coded into the map too. New mechanics like the battles down below in the Turai BMP mission required a lot of prototyping and additional server, engine and graphics programmers to make work at an acceptable level. If there are any cinematics, that requires another team of people to code the cinematic, do any special animations, effects, sounds, etc.

5. Testing: Once most of the pieces are together, a QA team begins searching the zone for bugs. Bugs are all over the place like animation glitches, floating props, effects not working, creatures spawned in unpathable spots, quests blocked, too many creatures spawning in an area, quests interacting with other quests poorly, spawns being too difficult, drop rates, skills not working or acting strangely, missing effects or icons, typos in text, text not localized, crashes, drops in frame rate, disconnects, you name it we got it. So round after round after round of bug fixes are made by all the people previously involved. Then there are rounds of testing for playability, balance and continuity and subsequent rounds of tweaks and more bug fixing.

6. Release: Marketing and Web are needed to working on any promotions being done. A web page for the feature needs to be created complete with its own text and graphics requiring more peoples time and effort. Update notes need to be compiled and checked against what is in game. A Dev Update needs to be written and edited. Community needs to be up to speed on everything involved. All the files involved have to be integrated up to the Staging servers where the whole testing process begins again with another round of bug fixes. Then everything needs to be integrated up to the Live servers and distributed out.
I know there are lots of things I am leaving out, but this should at least give you all some idea of what is required for just one zone. We are talking about ~20 people MINIMUM to accomplish. I would LOVE to make a new God Realm. LOVE. But getting all these resources at this point would be extremely difficult.
On the topic of new content in general, I mentioned a little bit about what it took to make M.O.X. so you know that doing any new quests is not a trivial task. I don't even want to talk about how stressed I was trying to get the Wintersday quests done in half the time with less people. From start to finish, a single quest can take around a month of development. Granted, certain people only work on it in specific stages but never-the-less, it is a time consuming process. But in all honesty, I would not have been as interested in working on the Live Team in the first place if I was not going to be able to add new content at all. It was the first question I asked when I was assessing whether or not I wanted to leave the GW2 team for this. In the six months since we started, the Live Team has already added a brand new hero with his own series of quests and brought Wintersday to the Eye of the North with its own series of quests. That is new content and I fully intend for us to be adding more small pieces of new content like this as we move forward. It's all just a matter of acquiring the resources and time needed. We have a VERY LONG list of things we want to do and new content is certainly on it. We know you guys want it and we do want it too. And with that, I am going to end this epically long response and go home for the day. - Linsey talk 03:15, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
Source: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User_...ons10#New_Area

Fril Estelin

Fril Estelin

So Serious...

Join Date: Jan 2007

London

Nerfs Are [WHAK]

E/

Something to keep in mind: Linsey posted a little while ago the kind of work that goes behind creating a "zone" in GW, and it'd require a small dedicated team of a dozen+ artists, designers and devs.

EDIT: see post above for details

It's totally unrealistic to have that kind of team expansion given the timeframe for GW2, but the Live Team is growing as Regina announced a while ago. From a business perspective, GW1 is the bridge to GW2 for Anet and they'll only try to keep "us" entertained when it doesn't require too much work. Non-casual players are asking for changes that would require a lot of money, which is not something wise to do when: a) the global economic situation is difficult; b) "you" are laying off people (NCsoft Europe, but Regina also mentioned people in the USA); c) you have to "survive" for another 1-2years.

I think the April update will be a refreshing one, but we shouldn't expect "content", but rather "features". People want to be addicted to GW1, but it's not the original vision that the game designers had for GW1. They don't want us to be addicted, they want us to enjoy it as much as we can, stop playing it when we've had enough, and then come back to it to get a fresh new fun experience. People want the p2p feeling that the game is constantly providing them with content, challenges and rewards, but GW1 is not in the category. I know people would be ready to pay for more content, but once more it's not Anet's philosophy (the BMP was an exception, not the rule).

A long while ago, there was a thread on game addiction on Guru and how GW1 could have been designed to avoid hooking us in the way some other games do (as someone recently said here, some WoW players are only paying their subscription by loyalty to their guild, it must make Activision Blizzard very rich!). We see the give-GW1-more-ressources kind of threads all the time (a.k.a GW1-needs-new-stuff), see Sardelac, but it's not going to change a company policy that was set a while ago and the way 100+ employees work.

They make a decision based on their philosophy, but also to be able to pay the employee their wages. We've been spoiled for so many years without subscription that it can give the impression that they can stretch their resources at will. But they're planning carefully I guess, trying to make sure GW2 will be a resounding success in such an uncertain world with a depressive economy.

I thought yesterday while chatting in-game with a friend that GW1 is not "dead", it's just a "ghost". People see it, play it, but think it lacks the consistence that other MMOs have. Except these MMOs run on "blood" (paying money every month) while GW1 runs on very little. The GW1 ghost may be invisible to many who have quit the game, but it's still there, running for many other GW players.

mrvrod

Guest01

Join Date: Jul 2006

I would LOVE to see new content, but NOT at the cost of GW2 development! If it becomes possible in the near future then go for it, otherwise, I'll keep finding something to do in GW.

wetwillyhip

wetwillyhip

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2006

USA, Southern California, Orange County

Tyrian Elements [TyE]

R/Mo

Regina, hear me out, and I obviously doubt I'm the only one who has thought up of this. This seems simple to me, but I'm not a professional in the gaming industry, so I don't know the drawbacks.

I know that in your talk page on the official Guild Wiki, people ask for features or changes, such as to change character appearance, or to add an in-game auction house, etc. I've observed that what is said much of the time from Anet's side on your talk page is "we are limited/low on resources for that" or " we don't have enough resources to do that".

My idea is, how about working on those types of features that can be purchased in the guildwars in-game store. I can't think of any players that wouldn't purchase those features/character customizations. I myself included, would. Supporting example: Players all the time purchase more character slots to increase their storage. In this way, players will be happy with new content/features more frequently because you (Anet) will have a steady income of money flowing and resources from the thousands of players buying these things at the in-game store. And thus, a chain effect. We are happy, you guys have more resources, and the income flows. You can start with something small, and then build up to larger features. And with that, more content/features can be made. This idea can, in essence, fill in that gap for those players who would hypothetically and gladly pay a subscription fee monthly for Guild Wars aka, hardcore gamers. If the hardcore players want more content/features for Guild Wars, then they can surely pay for it through the in-game store! For those of us who are satisfied, you can still play for free and choose to not purchase the new features.

Now, am I missing something or not thinking of something in that idea that is a disadvantage or that wouldn't work?

This is something that has been on my mind strongly for awhile. I hope you see this and will respond to this Regina.

Gun Pierson

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

@wetwillyhip: it seems we are too optimistic mate.

Don't make the comparison with a subscription fee too much though or we don't stand a chance at all and the odds are against us as it is. I prefer we talk about content and features that we pay for as we want to pay the salary for the 'dozen' people required to do the job.

I was thinking pure hypothetically:

2 elite areas for the gods
10$ for one area
200 000 people buy them through the online store.
=
4 million $

A yearly game dev salary: 70,000$?
times 12 (devs and co) = 840,000$

This seems to be too optimistic and simplistic though.

Fril Estelin

Fril Estelin

So Serious...

Join Date: Jan 2007

London

Nerfs Are [WHAK]

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Pierson View Post
I was thinking pure hypothetically:

2 elite areas for the gods
10$ for one area
200 000 people buy them through the online store.
=
4 million $

A yearly game dev salary: 70,000$?
times 12 (devs and co) = 840,000$

This seems to be too optimistic and simplistic though.
Aiming at 200k customers buying these 2 realms is unrealistic, given that a significant portion of the playerbase is made of new players and casuals that still have a lot to do in the game (something like the BMP was really a different experience, and maybe they learned from the BMP that they couldn't attract big enough numbers). I'll add that the calculation is probably wrong, but the principle remains: if you say 50k customers on one side and 20 members of staff on the other hand (as Linsey indicates), you have around 50k$ per staff, which buys you around 6-10 months of development time (+support?). It can be difficult to balance the equation with a development of the quality that Anet entertains. Furthermore, if Anet wants to start such a project, they aren't given money for that, they have to make sure they can earn back the money spent on additional wages (it gets more complicated as people are not solely working on one thing in a company).

In their "big equation", Anet has to deal with GW1 and GW2, not only GW1. Despite the fact that for us GW2 materialistically counts for nothing, I can understand why they're not willing to expand the Live Team at a faster rate. But as hallomik said, they are expanding it, but I guess people would like more immediate rewards, rather than have to wait until April.

Red Sonya

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2005

You don't add new money to a dying program. GW1 is dying so adding any new funds to this game would be like the stimulus package that won't do anything but increase the national deficit. Best NCsoft puts that new money into new products hopefully something that people want like a no monthly fee WOW.

Gigashadow

Gigashadow

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

Bellevue, WA

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Pierson View Post
@wetwillyhip: it seems we are too optimistic mate.

Don't make the comparison with a subscription fee too much though or we don't stand a chance at all and the odds are against us as it is. I prefer we talk about content and features that we pay for as we want to pay the salary for the 'dozen' people required to do the job.

I was thinking pure hypothetically:

2 elite areas for the gods
10$ for one area
200 000 people buy them through the online store.
=
4 million $

A yearly game dev salary: 70,000$?
times 12 (devs and co) = 840,000$

This seems to be too optimistic and simplistic though.
People cost a company a lot more than just their salary; payroll taxes, health care, offices, etc. The general rule of thumb is take their salary and multiply it by 2 for what it costs the company.

70K for salary is probably about right, game companies generally pay like shit and have awful hours.

wetwillyhip

wetwillyhip

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2006

USA, Southern California, Orange County

Tyrian Elements [TyE]

R/Mo

Guild Wars isn't dying, stop freakin thinking that. If you think it's dying go read Fril's second to last post on the current state of the game. I play still, almost 4 years after it came out and I see plenty of new players coming to the games.

@Fril, yea I totally agree with your second to last post. As for your last one, I didn't think it would be all too easy and perfect idea, neither did Gun Pierson. I know it wouldn't be easy to start a process such as the idea that I stated, but by starting small, maybe Anet could get their feet wet a little bit. This is all just a suggestion. The financial stuff is for Anet to go through not us, it's not even worth for us to take a look at our assumptions and calculations that a game company would has. There's no point because we don't know everything, the little details, and complications that come with what they might deal with now.

Regina Buenaobra

Regina Buenaobra

ArenaNet

Join Date: Apr 2008

Me/

Quote:
Originally Posted by wetwillyhip View Post
Regina, hear me out, and I obviously doubt I'm the only one who has thought up of this. This seems simple to me, but I'm not a professional in the gaming industry, so I don't know the drawbacks.

I know that in your talk page on the official Guild Wiki, people ask for features or changes, such as to change character appearance, or to add an in-game auction house, etc. I've observed that what is said much of the time from Anet's side on your talk page is "we are limited/low on resources for that" or " we don't have enough resources to do that".

My idea is, how about working on those types of features that can be purchased in the guildwars in-game store. I can't think of any players that wouldn't purchase those features/character customizations. I myself included, would. Supporting example: Players all the time purchase more character slots to increase their storage. In this way, players will be happy with new content/features more frequently because you (Anet) will have a steady income of money flowing and resources from the thousands of players buying these things at the in-game store. And thus, a chain effect. We are happy, you guys have more resources, and the income flows. You can start with something small, and then build up to larger features. And with that, more content/features can be made. This idea can, in essence, fill in that gap for those players who would hypothetically and gladly pay a subscription fee monthly for Guild Wars aka, hardcore gamers. If the hardcore players want more content/features for Guild Wars, then they can surely pay for it through the in-game store! For those of us who are satisfied, you can still play for free and choose to not purchase the new features.

Now, am I missing something or not thinking of something in that idea that is a disadvantage or that wouldn't work?

This is something that has been on my mind strongly for awhile. I hope you see this and will respond to this Regina.
Something like that could work in theory, but I am not sure that it could fund the salaries of an entire team of developers.

Yawgmoth

Yawgmoth

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2005

And how about continuing to support GW1 for the sake of it's business model being the same as will be used by GW2? It won't look cool if at the moment of GW2 release people will point at long dead GW1 showing it as a clear example where the business model failed.

Yang Whirlwind

Yang Whirlwind

~ Retired ~

Join Date: Nov 2005

Copenhagen, Denmark (GMT +1)

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yawgmoth View Post
And how about continuing to support GW1 for the sake of it's business model being the same as will be used by GW2? It won't look cool if at the moment of GW2 release people will point at long dead GW1 showing it as a clear example where the business model failed.
Supporting is not the same as developing new content, which seems to be what people here are asking for.
The business model failed? But it did not! It gave them funds enough to at least cover some of the expenses in developing a brand new game, while still maintaining and supporting the old game.
That's the beauty of that business model: you buy - you play as long as you like. Until GW2 gets here there will not be anything new to buy,- but you are still free to play the material you have paid for to your hearts content.

I do like the idea of something smallish (an elite mission or two) being added to keep people playing.

Siadena

Siadena

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2007

Rome

Order Of The Immortal

W/

I don't think a new elite zone or two, nor more quests like the MOX one will really help much. I mean they're talking about a couple more years - which is a lifetime in MMO's. Something like these will inspire people to maybe come back and play what, a few hours, couple weeks tops?
Not taking a shot here, just how I see it....

IDEA #2:

So...........how about:

*3rd Tier of difficulty - "impossible mode"?
*New title tracks of guardian/vanquish in that mode?
-ALL drops in that mode be gold
*New title tracks (like one for doing the hundreds if not thousands of non-storyline "quests" that most GW players ignore)
*New small events (since current ones bring back so many GW retirees)

.......(kind of jk on this one but)*Able to run 3 classes (in PVE, pvp would be too hard to balance). Still just 8 skills. (lol, C'mon, a perma, nuking monk would be fun, hahahah)

I'm just throwing out random ideas here - not saying any are great, but there are several things they might try to do like this that won't require complete NEW content, just an update and modification of what they already have in place. Things that will help inspire long term interest is the filter I think they'll be looking through when they add anything looking at that timeline of another 2 years.

Konig Des Todes

Konig Des Todes

Ooo, pretty flower

Join Date: Jan 2008

Citadel of the Decayed

The Archivists' Sanctum [Lore]

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siadena View Post
I don't think a new elite zone or two, nor more quests like the MOX one will really help much. I mean they're talking about a couple more years - which is a lifetime in MMO's. Something like these will inspire people to maybe come back and play what, a few hours, couple weeks tops?
Not taking a shot here, just how I see it....
I think new quests like the M.O.X. quests are, in fact, possible and would help a bit. The M.O.X. quests were made with the idea of 1 update per month, but with it now more like 1 update per quarter - any additional quest chains can be bigger. At least, I would think so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siadena
IDEA #2:

So...........how about:

*3rd Tier of difficulty - "impossible mode"?
*New title tracks of guardian/vanquish in that mode?
-ALL drops in that mode be gold
*New title tracks (like one for doing the hundreds if not thousands of non-storyline "quests" that most GW players ignore)
*New small events (since current ones bring back so many GW retirees)
Don't mind the third tier of difficulty, but the settings MUST change from what you have. No new title tracks for Guardian/Vanquisher, you'd then have at least an additional 6 titles, which would call for a Rank 7 of GWAMM - which would annoy more than please.

If a new "Impossible Mode" is made - I suggest it to be of this kind of setting:
  1. No New Titles.
  2. No Henchmen (automatically kicked) Only Heroes and other players.
  3. Limit of 1 (or 2?) PvE-Only skills
  4. All Enemies have balanced builds that are balanced by group settings.
  5. Levels, Attributes, Armor, and Health are that of Hard Mode.
This would mean that those who want to title hunt don't have to do Impossible Mode, it would only be there for fun.

However, I disagree with the whole new mode thing in general, but instead turn all HM builds into balanced builds (again, by group settings). And a different way to set up the Legendary Titles along with that - that setting being:

Legendary Master
Legendary Master of Tyria
Protector of Tyria
Guardian of Tyria
Cartographer of Tyria
Vanquisher of Tyria
Adventurer of Tyria
Legendary Master of Cantha
Protector of Cantha
Guardian of Cantha
Cartographer of Cantha
Vanquisher of Cantha
Adventurer of Cantha
Legendary Master of Elona
Protector of Elona
Guardian of Elona
Cartographer of Elona
Vanquisher of Elona
Adventurer of Elona
Legendary Master of the North
Protector of the North
Guardian of the North
Cartographer of the North
Vanquisher of the North
Adventurer of the North
Legendary Skill Hunter
Skill Hunter of Tyria
Skill Hunter of Cantha
Skill Hunter of Elona
As it currently stands, you must have all three campaigns in order to get a decent rank of KoaBD, along with any Legendary title. However, with a setting like this, you can get 5 titles per continent done - therefore can get a decent rank of KoaBD without having all three campaigns. The current setting reduces the ability of those who are unable (due to finance or age) to get a campaign.

Secondly, it adds the Adventurer title for quests - this title is to be done by points (similar to how the LMotN title is currently set up) so that those of a forgeign campaign can get the title without having to do every single quest - therefore "native characters" can do even fewer quests.

Lastly, the titles underneath each Master title (primarily Master of the North) is not needed to have as an individual title and can be set up by a "point" system instead of by the "complete or not" system.

But I degress,

Simply balancing the builds of HM - and possibly NM - enemies would be plenty to give a new kind of "HM" that would draw anyone who likes challenges to redo the areas - like HM originally did until people became title grinders.

Siadena

Siadena

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2007

Rome

Order Of The Immortal

W/

Wow, I was jusr brainstorming something rough - nice additional ideas and points Konig . It'd be nice if someone ever listened to brainstorming sessions like this, lol.

Stockholm

Stockholm

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

Censored

Censored

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Pierson View Post
First of all I would like to explain that I'm not talking about taking recources away from GW2. That said can Anet convince NCsoft to fund some extra people on GW1? Would it be a good move?

They're a few arguments I can think of why this may seem interesting for all sides:

1) Anet: it would mean they could hire some junior devs who could learn the do's and don'ts under a senior. So in some time they'll be seniors themselves within Anet. A healthy thing to do imo.

It will also strengthen the feeling Anet still strongly support GW, even more than they do now. And it doesn't get in the way of the 'total silence about gw2' strat.

2)playerbase: would get more content faster and other things to keep us busy until GW2.

Can even bring in some bucks, which may be a good argument to convince NCsoft. For example a mini expansion like 'Sorrow's Furnace' for like 5-10 euro in the online store. Seeing that people still buy stuff, it's almost guaranteed a mini expansion will be massively bought.

A lot will depend on what the economists and analysts at NCsoft calculate, if enough money can be made from it to cover the costs or not.
GW was never ment to be a game you played forever.
They don't want the players staying until GW2 comes out, they want you to COMEBACK when GW2 comes out.

belladonna shylock

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

Hey Mallyx [icU]

Me/

This point has been argued but to put it in another way....


Most all products have a product life-cycle. They start off fresh and new, gain market share, gain larger margins then either become a product that brings in money with very little funding or is a product that needs killed.

GW1 is basically a cash cow for when GW2 comes out. Players who played GW2 could possibly still buy GW1 for the HoM features. So, the company could sell more of GW1 when GW2 comes out.

because you want to reduce the costs associated with this product (GW1), you want to add as little improvements as possible. The profit from the GW1 you put into GW2. The more you add bells and whistles to GW1, the less can go towards GW2.

While it might make sense to add big bells and whistles as an option and charge extra for it, it's not a promised return. It's contingent. There is an uncertain amount of risk you can't measure. Also, because adding big bells and whistles requires resources, it pushes GW2 back further because it requires resources from GW2. it doesn't make sense to take resources from GW2 to update a product that is that far down the product life-cycle. The amount of money they could make off the big bells and whistles added to GW1 more than likely doesn't exceed the benefits of keeping those resources at work for GW2.


As a consumer I would love to see new features to this game! But that just wouldn't' make common sense from a business stand-point, unless you wanted to "test" some very cost-friendly features for GW2.


well, that's my opinion.

Also,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Sonya View Post
You don't add new money to a dying program.
I would replace the word dying with mature


Also..

Though it's probably not true for this game, it would be ideal if tons of people bought the game and no one played (like a gym membership where most people buy and hardly anyone goes). This would be the perfect position for Anet. The firm makes their money and doesn't have to update anything, ever! But when you have a player base, you have to (Just like a gym has to keep up with maintaining the gym equipment) So, for everyone who says "no one plays GW anymore", these updates are proof people do.

Mustache Mayhem

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

BEN

R/N

they should have titles that are class specific.. like necros would have 'bait of the master' and elementals could be something like 'balls of the dragon'

now that would be cool.. and they would be linked to areas you were able to solo- that way it would be impossible for a dingle to get them.. that would be a real skill title kind of like how fame is farmed only more individual because you can't be a coattail rider who relies on better players to get you there..

for warrior 'racoon of the face' and ritualist 'beater of the rib'.. of course you can tweak these a bit- I would also like to see- let's say you have every skill in the game not only unlocked, but in use over all your characters.. I spent a grip getting all the skills before there were tomes- back then had to spend 1k for each one.. do the math! =]

maybe that title could be 'tooth of the buck' or 'rabbit of the face'

Gun Pierson

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stockholm View Post
GW was never ment to be a game you played forever.
They don't want the players staying until GW2 comes out, they want you to COMEBACK when GW2 comes out.
Yeah we all know that, GW was also never ment to be such a pve magnet and see how that turned out. It spontaneously happened.

It's still a long time till GW2 will arrive. We're trying to convince them to bridge that gap. We already had a 'no', so no harm done in trying to get a 'Yes we can'.

Hanging Man

Hanging Man

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2006

Deep in the Shire

unfortunately it is unrealistic to ask for more people on GW1.

Like someone posted before me, it takes a large amount of effort to make one area which requires alot of man hours.

I would like to say just ride it out until gw2 gets here, but that is also unrealistic. The community needs new content. The only thing I can think of would be minor expansions or weekly/monthly quests.

I like the OPs idea of Sorrows Furnace expansion, maybe that specific area but definitely a minor expansion would help boost revenue.
This has been suggested before I think, but like Wow does, a weekly or monthly quest would be great. Although make it moderately long and with a decent reward.

pumpkin pie

pumpkin pie

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

behind you

bumble bee

E/

I realize what happened

1) GW1, buy the game, play for free with the business model which is one expansion pack every 6 months to generate revenue.

2) Anet realize there are lots more things they wanted to add to GW1 which turns out that they cannot add it on to the existing game anymore. (could this be because they didn't think properly before launching the game, or whatever happens. i am not sure)

3) GW1 is left with a small group of live team to balance and fix. When this was first announce no one suspect that the development time for an entirely new game cannot happen within 2-3 years time. But everything seems okay, on top of that players had expect to only wait 2-3 years, because GW2 is sort of like another expansion, which it is not.

4) Then problems start to arise, after splitting the existing group of game developer that is suppose to work on GW1 expansion packs, which was suppose to generate revenue for its company into 2 groups of people working on 2 separate games with a single source of income is a bad idea. GW1 needs to keep player interested, GW2 needs to get done with the ambition of making the best ever MMORPG, just doesn't sound like it will happen anytime soon, not even in the year 2010/11.

Hence I now change my position, I sincerely urge Arena Net to hire more game developer, continue with making expansion packs until a truly "World's Best MMORPG is ready to be launch", otherwise you'll just have to make GW3 because GW2 isn't good enough. In fact Arena Net should consider using any other ways, such as in-game advertisement or any method befitting the purpose of generating revenue to keep GW1 going and growing! while you work on GW2 quietly as if it has never been announce.

So i guess i am going to pretend as if GW2 was never announced, and hope arena net comes up with more expansion pack for GW1, and be surprise when GW2 finally arrived. :P

Vel

Vel

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra View Post
We are definitely adding resources to the Live Team, but it's not going to be one person. What we're going to be doing is getting more of multiple existing staff members' time to work on GW1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Izzy's Wiki Page
I've been focusing on GW2 so much I just haven't posted on here in a while, which is a trend I don't see changing for a while, so try not to hate me too much but my focus has really changed from GW1 skills and balance to GW2 combat, economy, and other big systems and there is always a lot of work to do.
Considering GW1 Live team is getting more resources as multiple GW2 staff will have some time at hand to work with the GW1 Live team and Izzy is now working on Economy (Isn't economy one of the last few things that is worked on in game world?), are we getting really close to GW2 beta? Say an Xmas Surprise to be announced in April '09.