Remember this statement on the developer’s update?

Remember this statement on the developer’s update?

I am sorry to say but I am not feeling it. I know the fanboys are going to jump to the defense with you are not entitled to anything, even though ANET made the statement, but anybody else feeling it?

Is there any chance we can get a progress update on what is going on, what changes have been made, what areas have been completed. Even if it is to say, "We tried something but it did not work out so we are trying something else."

I would really like to see a screenshot of the new storage ideals even if those ideals don’t make it into the game.

I would assume the notifications as to what the next update is going to include is going to be all we get. We know April has some storage stuff in it. It would be nice if the process was a little more transparent or the updates were more frequent.

I agree overall though.

Well, ANet has told us what to expect in future updates previously as well as the upcoming update. However, I do feel sort of disconnected.

I think the statement actually refers to the development of GW2, Katsumi. If I'm not mistaken this paragraph is taken from the March 2007 issue of PC Gamer. right?

It's from the -15 January 2009- Dev Update.

So, more transparency for GW1 updates.

I disagree.

I think Linsey has been more open than any other ANet employee to-date. Check out her personal journal and discussion pages/holding tank to see what I mean. I think that kid is working her tail off.

-ANoid

Yes, I do remember that statement, I also remember small statements from Linsey (only dev I follow with what is said), such as this:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User_...o_Honor_Update

I agree Linsey Murdock has been the one true source of Guild Wars 1 information for some time, kind of like the one glimmer of hope in sea of “No Info”. I do read and post on her wiki talk page. I truly believe she is working her tale off and I don’t want her to stop just to keep us feeling connected.

What I want here is for someone else at ANET to step up and post some info, other than Linsey, about the status of updates, projects, just to keep us in the loop.

The fear of backlash if they say we are trying to do this and coming back on later to say we couldn’t do it I just don’t get either. If they were to say we tried this and it is not possible would probably just result in a bombardment of suggestions.

Unfortunately most of Anet seems to be going into full bunker mentality. Just try to remember, the Anet employees you see posting here, with their 'sorry, I wish I could say more' posts, do NOT make policy for what Anet will or will not release. They have the unenviable task of delivering the news that management would never face the heat to come here and post thenselves.

Regina, Izzy, et all, I am sorry that you folks have to constantly face the firing squads to deliver your superiors tidings, and I appreciate all you try to do in changing their attitude, or at least conveying our concerns to them.

Linsey is great. I believe there's a fan club in the group section to that effect.

But it would be nice if there was more information, more communication, overall. Not just from one person.

I'll tell you where ANet dropped the ball: with the newsletter, that's where.

I'm sure somebody thought it was a good idea, but when you couple that with ANet's 'info-lockdown', just what exactly can they publish?

-ANoid

yep we need more information no need to give out the important tech stuff or any thing like that just a few picture here and there some info as to crafting stuff that just about every other mmo has so they dont need to worry about getting their ideas pinched.

Looking at that update in a larger context, right after that statement they go into coming attractions, delivering on the statement you referenced originally:

Content Updates
Content updates will be done separately from the monthly maintenance and occur every three to four months. By spacing out our content releases, we gain the time to tackle larger and more difficult projects that, previously, would've been impossible. Some features that once seemed unattainable are now being explored as upcoming projects. We are even expanding the Live Team to offer more of the best quality support and content that we can for Guild Wars. With this new system, we release our new content in fewer yet more substantial updates. We want players to feel connected to what we are developing even though it may be months away from release, so during development we will be more open about our process and what we are working on.
Coming Attractions
The Live Team is now designing the first big content update of 2009, which we expect to release in April. We had many discussions towards the end of last year and ended up with a major wish list and a plan for what it would take to make that list a reality. At this point, we have a clear idea of what is ahead of us and we hope everyone will be as excited about these prospects as we are.
Here are a few features we are currently developing for April:
Increases to account-based storage
Improvements to character-based storage
Account-based changes to the Hall of Monuments

If this is going to be a guage on future content updates(every 3-4 months) maybe we should expect an announcement 2-3 months prior to a content update. So after the April update the next content update would be approx July/August and the next annoucement would be May/June and so on....

Rofl..cool dudez. I logged onto the game the other day and one guy in guild chat asked when the release date for GW2 was and then another guy asked if GW2 was even in existence. I'm happy to know that the masses are well informed.

Yeah, I certainly don't feel that connected yet with Anet. Not to sound selfish, but without us, they wouldn't be so successful. And I just feel it would be nice to be more communicative to their fan-base. I mean, it just leaves us in the dark and it's just one sided. We're relaying tons of suggestions, inquiry, comments, etc. But where is the connection back from them. This isn't directed at Regina, Linsey, etc but the upper management or even NC Soft; the people who make these decisions on what to hold from us. I mean c'mon, just a screenshot or a few sentences of what they've tried and what hasn't worked. How do you keep a fan-base going when you don't even release new content or features that often or nearly at all?

It's a two way street on staying informed. You have to go out and look for the information too, you know. Anet are not going to knock on every individual persons door and sit down for a fireside chat.

Serenity, what you're saying is also a two way street. We're not talking about Anet posting stuff in the hard to reach/find places. Why would they do that? We're talking about them posting on the official site and the developer update page. Why would they make it hard for us to find out information? If they want us to see it, they will post it in places easier for us to find.

How is it hard to find information? They're using the Wiki, developers updates and official channels as they're intended. If you don't like that format, that's not their problem.

Actually... just to be a stinker. That would definitely be their problem. If a company wants their consumers to know something, they'll make it really really obvious.

At this point, really, I don't care what Anet says.

To me from now; early 2009 to perhaps middle of 2011 ....... there is too much time to wait for GW2, by then I'll be playing other games, hopefully DiabloIII.

But it is obvious to me. If I want to know something, I go to the Wiki, even if it means digging a few pages deeper.

I understand people have a problem with communicating via the Wiki format, but I see that it has consolodated down into the one "place to find everything" rather than there being lots of bits being of forums, in newsletters, in game visits etc.

Putting everything in one place is simplifying, not hiding.

Uhhh Serenity, not to bring this thread further off-topic but Wiki's are terrible as a means of communicating. Their search is convoluted, information from developers is buried or archived in days, a good majority of people don't even know how or the correct format of posting on a wiki.

Trying to find the latest statements from Izzy, from Regina or any other dev is nearly impossible. How is this a means of staying updated? If THIS is the "place to find everything" then it, quite frankly, fails. I should be able to go to the front page of GuildWars.com to find any large announcement, game update, network news, events and more and have it there in front of my face. I shouldn't have to "search" or "dig" for anything.

Inde - But isn't that what you get on the front page of gw.com anyway?

I agree, a Wiki is not ideal, but at least they've made the effort to consolodate, and it's directly linkable from in game. The discussion and information on the Wiki is more indepth for those that want to go beyond the official announcements on gw.com

I don't believe an official forum (run and moderated via gw.com) is the answer either - forums can just become a cesspool of arguing and mis-information.

But yeah, getting OT

To get back on topic for the OP: I believe the GW1 team are doing pretty good discussing the upcoming updates - Linsey's a mine of information if you take the time to read her talk page. It also does get point listed on the "Wiki Updates" page here too.

You also have to understand they have limited time and resources. The more time they spend talking to the fans is less time they have actually making things happen.

Although I agree they should release additional information about Guild Wars 2 they just aren't up to it, and only they know why. It does irritate me that whenever Regina makes a post people tend to whip out their weapons and open fire because they didn't hear what they wanted to. Reminds me when some of the coming changes, like storage and such were announced not so long ago. It's like someone handing you a $5 bill and you shout back "NO GIVE ME A 20 INSTEAD!!". Fact of the matter is that unless GW2 is absolutely perfect the people on these forums will pick it to pieces like a wounded animal in the wild. So perhaps it's best if everyone is forced to wait until it's polished up to near perfection.

The troll is strong in this one.

Agreed. Go look at the WoW forums, it's basically just a 15$ a month babysitter for kids that are tired of the game but can't quit.

I see. If bashing other games to make the game you like look good is your thing, knock yourself out.

It's kinda sad and pathetic though, if you ask me.

I'd join that club

I do really like the info we have been getting, even if it's very, very vague.

Bashing forums, not the game. A brief glance over the official WoW forums does nothing to dispel the notion that they are, indeed, a cesspool.

has anyone posted questions in regards to development on other live team members' talk page other then Linsey? i am sure if you do, they will answers your questions as well like Linsey does. the page is there, but everyone flood Linsey's page until she has to lock it down lol.

Actually there's an even greater issue...

Especially being an Elite fansite, ANet/NC Soft should be dropping you guys the press releases in email so you have the info as soon as the press does...

As an Elite site for the Game, you are a one stop shop for GW info and need that info when its first out, not secondhand from the website

I lol'd.

8910

So because some other game is mismanaging their own official forums, the correct answer is to not have a forum at all? I seriously hope they are a little more forward thinking than that.

I bring this up, because I think its relavent to the discussion. I'll try to keep it succinct, for those who are used to getting their news in sound byte sized portions, so please bear with.

I used to frequent the Gameamp forums, I had friends who would post there regularly. For those who weren't familiar with that site, it was acknowledged on the Guild Wars website, but it wasn't an “elite” fansite. Anyways, Gameamp no longer exists, it officially died. Granted, there were some unique factors contributing to it's demise, but one of the reasons cited was that the ad revenue wasn't paying for the upkeep of the site. In today's economy, and with the absence of new things to discuss, fewer eyeballs on the advertisements were creating a financial pressure which ultimately killed the site.

Ok, graph time. I got these from http://www.alexa.com/. You can punch in whichever sites you like however, I'm just was interested to see the traffic on the sites I would normally frequent. This pic is from a couple weeks ago, but you can get the idea of the trends in general.


Now, with all that being said, I guess, technically, it's not Anet's problem if a fansite dies. And I guess technically Anet doesn't have to care about community forums that go belly up. Not that Anet had anything invested in Gameamp, but as we see these patterns emerge, it's not unreasonable to expect that the other community outlets, “elite” or otherwise, have the ability to follow a similar path.

Anet's irresposibility/hands-off-approach when it comes to handling the forum issue places that burden onto other's shoulders. That, and being less than forthcoming about any new stuff to get excited about, oh, and the economy I suppose, all contribute towards a degeneracy of the fan forums.

Not having an official forum also causes problems because the Anet representatives get to pick and choose which unofficial forum they want to be active in. Theoretically there is no accountability, because they can choose which forums to participate in/respond to based on community mood, etc.

I'm sure there are countless other issues which can be argued, concerning the merits of an official forum. All that gibberish I just posted was a combination of ravings from a random nobody who happens to have been playing for a while, but hopefully it was still a little food for thought.

The bottom line is, is Anet effectively delivering as intended, keeping players feeling connected? My thoughts are that they aren't. If those Alexa trends tell us anything, fewer people (in general) are visting the forums, and those that do frequent these forums, for the most part, all agree that the wikitalk method of communications is garbage. Are official forums the answer? I don't know. I do know, however, that there is a LOT of room for improvement.

The wiki holds information; it is not for discussion and completely fails as a medium for discussion. I will never understand why they even attempt to use it in such a way.

I don't care about GW2 information, that is 3 years down the road, and the only information I want is about the current Guild Wars 1 improvement projects.

If ANET ideal of keeping the customer feeling connected is to say, "Hey we're working on storage!" and they are excited they told us that then I am preparing myself to be underwhelmed.

How many times has ANet told us how great something is going to be, then left us in the dark, and released it only to have us looking at it asking "Is that it?" Then I look at the other game developers and think, "They got that and this is what I get?" The argument that is a free game (which it isn't) is questionable since this is a service industry (ANet’s own words) and I hope they try to remain competitive.

This goes back to what regina was saying before:

"You have a small group of dedicated folks who are active, influential, and super passionate that drive community activity, and you have a much, much larger group of people who may be as passionate as the smaller group, but maybe they don't have time or inclination to participate as much as the smaller, core group. For better or worse, the small group tends to drive community discussion and draw attention to their needs, simply because they are more vocal, more passionate, and more involved."

Even if all the elite fansites (3 listed on GW.com) dried up tomorrow, they may raise an eyebrow. But those members would still be playing GW. Overall it is not going to affect them since the majority of customers fit into the bolded/underlined section above. ANET puts out a short announcement/update designed for the LARGER group in a short bite sized package under latest headlines on the main page of the GW site. It is cheaper/quicker and likely to reach way more people.

We being the small super passionate group want more info so we can dissect, comment and perhaps flame it hoping to have our desires/input implemented.

Let us say there is only 4 million ACTUAL GW Players, this site has 190000 members that is barely 5% of the community. Even if the actual number is way lower and you factor in all the other sites elite or otherwise we may reach 80/20? Perhaps it is just too time consuming for them to constantly supply us with info. Time better spent actually making more content then make changes after they release and everyone comments on it. Maybe not what we would ideally want but I guess we are stuck with it.

I'm sorta impressed by what A-Net is doing. Instead of not giving us any information, they give out vague information just to keep our hope up.

If A-Net didn't reassure us on GW2 being in development, I think everyone at Guru would freak out right now?

I surely don't need any reassurance. I'm happily playing GW1. If Diablo III launches, I'll happily play Diablo III alongside. And as soon as Anet releases info about GW2, or even releases the game, I'll happily buy and play GW2.

The people that are yelling the loudest more than likely aren't anymore. That's the main issue.

Tullzinski, despite what I'm about to say, you made a good and thoughtful post. I'm only addressing a small argument in your post but I hope this isn't taken personally because I'm not here to attack your overall idea, but this one particular argument is old, tired and wrong. Yes, even referring to Regina's comment.

It's a statement I hear repeated constantly, Guru makes up a small portion of the community... thousands are playing the game happy and content but they just don't come on here to post it.

It's a flawed argument. Because I can immediately throw back, yes and there are thousands upon thousands leaving the game who also do not post, who also do not give their opinion a voice. These customers leave and Anet has not a clue as to why. They do not collect or gather any data for players leaving the game, they don't have any idea how many decide not to pick up their game again after playing it for just a few hours.

The only thing that speaks to an executive is sales numbers. If their numbers are still high then obviously something is still working. But if a company (the developers, the pr, the community relations, the support) cares to actually know what their players think, why their players like a game, why their players don't like a game then they can go to only one source in the hopes of improving, refining or making changes... the players who do make themselves heard.

It doesn't matter how small a number this is, if there are 1 MM people playing and only 10 players that will give their opinion this is their only course of knowing how their game is being received. Magazines and gaming news sites play a role in this with reviews and summaries of the game but any gamer knows the #1 marketing tool for games is viral and word-of-mouth marketing. The vast majority of us picked up Guild Wars on the recommendation of a friend.

So if I go to a message board and see a largely negative opinion on a game I'm not going to play that. Nor am I going to recommend it. This is why keeping your players informed and happy, those who are all ready consumers, is so vital to a developer, to a publisher. Because viral marketing is what can make or break a game.

I would point out that there are some peopke still buying the game or trilogy and registering on this board if you look often in the Q& A forum.

A thoughtful discussion Inde.

I'll add to it that tho viral marketing is important, I believe an opinion seen on a forum is far more complicated than whether someone likes the game or not. There are a whole raft of factors behind what someone will say: they could be a competitive plant; they could be having a bad day at work; they could be young and/or immature; they could be a lifer gamer with no perspective...the list of emotions behind an opinion is infinite.

Therefore, while it helps, a company would be doing themselves a disservice by relying on viral marketing and pandering to the fanbase - it's way too messy and gives a demographic and inflated sense of worth to a company, creating a monster that breeds contempt through successive "generations" of players.

If you go to PlayNC and post a message asking for a change in the game, they will immediately tell you that they don't accept suggestions in that way and you should go to an elite fansite and post your suggestion there (Yes I did this, that's why I know this is how it works). So, Indie is right, the ONLY way to have your voice heard by the developers is to post here or another elite site.