Heroes and CC's

Well, it very annoying that you have a full stack of DP removing candies in your inventory while your hero is with 60% DP and you cant use it on him.

So, i'm suggesting that as we can switch between player/heroes in inventory, that if you have hero's page inventory opened, and you double click to use DP remover it affects hero. Imo shouldnt be hard to implement at all and would be helpfull as heroes sometimes tend to get 60% DP rather quickly.

I've often thought about this too. Beats burning party wide dp removal for one hero or two.

I've gotten along with out it though so idk if its worth while.

Sweet merciful crap, I love this idea.

/please pretty please
//not holding out hope though
//in before the 'just use rainbow ccs/four leaf clovers and stop QQing' starts

/signed

We can give to other human players, why not heroes?

This is not really needed is it? I mean how hard is it to keep your heroes alive?
If you are having that much trouble with hero DP then maybe you should look at your team build and adjust it so it works better.
Next someone will be asking for a hero sweet tooth title....

Powerstone of Courage, enough said.

But honestly, if u wish to use sweets to remove dp on hero's, it should be on an individual basis, and sweets used to remove dp from heros and henchmen should not count toward your title. It would be the same as if you were traveling with a party of real people and handing out your sweets for each of them to use because they forgot their own or something. It would be hilarious however if u could accumulate a seperate sweet tooth title on ur henchies that could be displayed outside, lmao. =D

Go ahead and try HM, and stop being clueless.

I have done everything in the game in HM, with H/H for the most part. Heroes almost always die before humans. And by far, heroes accumulate dp faster than the rest of the party. My Olias probably never finished a zone without 15% dp or more because he is so freaking retarded.

Oh, and btw, before SY and Ursan crap, it was actually semi challenging to do HM zones without deaths, particularly on heroes. The only thing harder to keep alive than heroes are henchmen. Don't even get me started on those PoS things, the only thing that they have going for them are the HM buffs that are the same as monsters get.

Why n oy just being able to open their panels and drop the items in their portraits?

I have played since the release of Prophecies. I have completed every area, mission, quest, elite area, everything in both normal and hard mode in all the campaigns and expansion on my main toon and getting there on many other toons. I have 8 characters that have been through all the campaigns and expansion. Also have 4 others that are slowly progressing thru various stages of the campaigns. I think I have the experience to back up my previous post.

If your heroes are dying alot, figure out WHY they are dying. Change their build, runes, insignias, weapons, maybe try putting them on gaurd instead of attack... learn to flag them and move them as needed. Learn to actually USE them instead of relying on them to just run their bar. Heroes are notorious for standing in AoE, Learn to spread them out so it is not an issue, and move them out of AoE before it is an issue.


I will agree that Henchmen are harder to use since you have little control over them apart from flagging them where you want them. But, a well placed flag for them can make things easier.
No one said you have to use Ursan or SY at all. Ursan has been discussed into the ground around here so I will leave that alone. SY on the other hand is basically there for players that need a crutch to help them get through things. It is not needed and any good team should not need it at all, this includes hero/hench teams.

Anyone that has been as far as me and you have should have little trouble with anything in this game with just a hero/hench team. Using things like a proper build made to fit your personal playstyle ( read: not a pvxwiki or forum build) and paying attention and knowing how to use your heroes properly.

Your post has actually helped me prove my point and for that I thank you.
If people would actually LEARN to play the game and think for themselves instead of rushing onto forums to grab builds there would not be a need for all the little crutches that anet has added to this game.
It is actually sad to see that after almost 4 years the majority of players still have not figured out that things like consumables are not needed and they actually DEPEND on them to get through almost everything in the game.

If you're getting 60% DP on your heroes... then there is obviously something seriously wrong with your team setup and builds lol. I can't see why you would need this, and it seems a little pointless, sorry to be so blunt, but I think it's a bad idea.

Gone are the days of playing with other players (I do, but pugs are few and far between) ; why take it a step further and allow heroes to do something else that will make the community even more anti-social :/?

Sorry to rant, but I just think this is a ridiculous idea :/

I would also like to say that I agree completely with Thargor. Don't rush in without thinking and you shouldn't need to remove DP on heroes xD!

signed.
Great idea, especialy when you go into an area or dungeon
the first time. I don't think I've ever done a dungeon and been totaly prepared...and we all have 'those' days. It doesn't have to be a 60% to mess up a team of hench/heros.

good idea, but they are player meant DP removers, if people played in 8 man teams they would be fine :P
but as for heroes there are a few ways to get rid of there DP,
power stones - they cost a lot to make if you use them a lot
Clovers - adds to lucky and it is less then a month til farm time.

i would say save up a few stacks of clovers and use them til GW2 comes out.
best way for hero dp remove IMO

First off, I never said my heroes die lots. And mine run with proper runes, insignia, and weapons (no, i don't run sup runes, except death on the mm, and they have plenty of +hp). I know my way around areas, and have more than enough experience making my own builds or variants of others. That said, this isn't a contest of who has done what. The OP was on being able to use candy canes on specific heroes who accumulate dp faster than others.

Perhaps I could have been more clear on Ursan/SY. I used to use ursan on my monk for hm (along with a modded sabway) because it provided reliable damage, and enabled me to play frontline for my H/H team. For those who have used a monk for GWAMM, I'm sure you are aware of the damage factor involved with many areas of GW when you are playing a low combat potential backliner. I have never used SY on any character, rarely been in a group that used one even. Even before ursan was nerfed, I switched to running discord on my heroes, and running a modded caller for the build. I can tell you what leads to hero deaths in my groups. Number one is multiple aggro. Most of the time it can be avoided, however we all manage to screw aggro up at one point or another. In my opinion, the measure of your team build is the amount of extra aggro it can hold and still score kills, mine can routinely hold 3 or more and keep going. However, there will be deaths when you are fighting huge groups due to a mistake or lag.

Second is some boss groups, it doesn't take much damage on top of a 500 damage invoke lightning or some such to spike a hero out. I run 640hp and a shield set in HM, so I'm a bit tougher target, heros are a bit weaker. And I routinely will get huge damage spikes when taking aggro, as the entire group drops whatever they have on you.

Once a hero goes down, they are simply easier to spike out, thus one getting 60dp while the rest of the party has none. I think it would be nice to have the option to burn hero dp outside of clovers or a powerstone. I no longer play HM actively (repetition ftl) and thus it doesn't mean as much to me as it may to others.

As for the last part of your post, yes I can pretty much steamroll whatever area I like. No cons, I'll sell those to UWSC all day and not miss them. However, everyone makes mistakes, and being able to use candycanes and such on heroes would certainly be a useful feature in certain places.

well, i'm seriously not interested in using up powerstone of courage just because my Olias as the only party member gets up to 60% DP. He tends to get there in 75% of runs, with him being at 60% he dies a lot, then other heroes are rezzing him instead of playing etc. etc.

Imo it really wouldnt hurt at all if we could use those candies on heroes. However it would help loads in some situations.

And seriously, if a hero gets to 60% DP it really doesn't say anything about me knowing how to play the game or not - and if you claim your heroes never get any DP then you're a liar or you're not playing HM at all.

/signed.

Its a great idea without buying powerstones.


Thagor, if you are that a great teambuild builder..
For every area.........!!!!!!

Pls share it,
I have several good to very good team builds,, but I and all others without any exceptions including you I'm sure cant prevent that hench or Hero wil die
so now and than..

Ore are you playing only NM

We know what DP is and how it works, I'm just saying that this is a bad idea, and wont happen due to the fact that using cons is something players do... not heroes, therefore allowing us to differentiate between a pc and a player.. who has slightly more knowledge of how to play (unless you repeatadley get 60 DP on heroes)

I just can't see, providing you are using a proper team setup, balanced or physical or w/e, that you could possibly need to get heroes to use cons ?><

That's my ranting over, i just think we rely on heroes to much as it is anyway (start arguement about how no one wants to play with you, or w/e ;o )

People who vanquish understand this idea and benifit from it the most. Most HM missions aren't that bad. I do nearly everything on my own with heroes myself. I just need to finish a few dungeons and vq some areas in eotn for my gwamm. Luxon title taking up most my time vffing..

And we know prot spirit goes along way with 60 dp on a hero. AI generaly go for the weaker party member. Changing builds does help alot but that usually means u failed on prior attempts. Controling minions double aggroing group, fighting a group then u get popups on top of it etc everyone one has had dp on heroes, its just managing after they have it that matters alot. Knowing how to pull, hide behide walls/rocks when fighting mob of rangers, flag seperation in before pulling aoe mobs etc all basic info.

Even the best players get 60 dp on heroes. Plus this could cause a slight mark up in sweet dp removers price.

Unless Anet was able to recreate the way we use consumables, allowing a hero to use a Candy Cane would also allow a hero to use a Candy Corn, Golden Egg, etc. Heroes were given to us to provide things hench can't. Giving heroes the ability to use things only humans can will further take away from the way the game was meant to be player - with other people. I use hero+hench a lot myself, and have Vanquished every zone with multiple characters. I also have Guardian on several characters, so I know how HM works, and what happens. I do not want a way for HM to become easy though, otherwise it was a waste of time for Anet to make it, and we should all play Sesame Street instread.

I agree with the OP idea. It will help a lot. The other solution is to fix AI and mostly the one from Olias. Since I do not see 2nd option happening anytime soon I sign 1st one.

What would this hero sweet title be? I give candy to children(1), They ate my house, so into the oven(2)? Thats not good.

Anyway, it is a shame that so many DP removers are only for Humans and that only 2 are for H/H. As for needing new builds...Pshaw. HM solo dungeon running, since you cant find a party for it, isnt unheard of. And H/H DP is bound to happen because of it. No matter how good your builds are, since henchmens builds are set and they have a mind of thier own. So it does seem a waste for many of the holiday items to be useless to those solo players because the games player base has declined so much. Not to mention new players who dont have rank 3 in GWEN titles to even buy powerstones or might not even be at the town needed to acquire them. Maybe they dont even own GWEN, and what are those players supposed to do?

Either way, I rarely remember to bring DP removal items when I do anything so this doesnt really affect me much. But I also dont have an issue with it changing either, by altering existing DP items to be party wide, or to go with the OPs idea. I never do understand the people on this forum who oppose every idea, when its obvious from their posts that it doesnt pertain to them, so what does it matter to them? Who really cares, if you are so leet, that something might help those not so leet do the same things. It wont kill you.

So,

/SIGNED...alter it anyway you want.

I don't oppose every idea, just the ones I think are bad. I don't think I am "so leet" and this will help people who aren't. What I see this idea doing is making people worse at playing the game. People who are bad at the game, or only average will often find death mounting up, especially in HM. Giving them ways to remove the DP means the DP means nothing. If they can ignore DP they will start to ignore ways to prevent DP. When did staying alive as long as possible become "leet"? I'd prefer the people who want this to become part of the game learn how to not need DP removal, which would mean they are becoming a better player. DP removal should be available to remove DP to allow a mission/quest to be completed when an unexpected DP arises. Good examples of times a DP removal would be good to use? HM elite zones like The Deep, Urgoz Warren, Underworld, Fissure of Woe, etc. The time it takes to do those is not something you want to lose for some unexpected deaths.

I'm just not wanting ways for bad players to remain bad and still do well in the game.

why does it make me a bad player if i want to remove DP from Olias who in 75% cases gets to 30%? oh no, i'm a bad player because my hero lures too much, and now if i want him to get rid of DP, i'll be even worse player... give me a break, removing DP from heroes has nothing to do with how good you are or not, i've done legendary guardian without using a single DP removal. But that's not the case.

Why should we play with heroes that have DP while having stacks of DP removers in inventory? there's no reason for that, simply let us use it on heroes trough their inventory tab. And tbh there are too many other things in game that help ppl do in game well and keep them bad, like consumables, pve skills etc.

seriously, bad argument just there.

[Protective Spirit]

It would consume dev time as it is unprecedented functionality.

It takes few mobs to redeem DP from one death with HM XP gains. If your hero dies more often that it can clear dp naturally, something is, indeed, wrong with your setup. Being able to use cons will not help you with that, it will only make it consume money.

If you still have problems, you can use party-wide XP scrolls, or party-wide DP removers (there are several), so there is no point in this functionality.

You are a bad player if a hero gains DP faster than it can be removed in HM where XP is much higher. If the build is bad, the hero will die often. If yuou flag poorly, the hero will die often. If you have the hero set wrong (Attack, Guard, Avoid) the hero will die often. If you have poor armor/weapon sets on a hero, it will die often.

Good players learn what was wrong, that made the hero die so frequently that DP became a problem. Then they fix that/those problem(s) and have fewer if any problems.

Yes, lots of things were added to assist the bad players. We don't need more added though. How many people have you seen asking for PvE skills to be removed? How many have asked for Consumables to be removed? How many have you seen asking for Summoning Stones to be removed? I wouldn't go so far as to say those should all be removed, but they certainly allow bad players to stay bad and still succeed.

Like these.

And let's try and keep it on topic, shall we?

Well, I made a suggestion about DP management, suggesting some kind of items or potions to recover DP for heroes, henchmen and self without depending on event drops.

They added powerstones, so I considered my suggestion made.

It's not like I disagree with this, but it's true that not all items would be usable in heroes. Mostly DP ones would be fine.
Items with other kinds of Bonuses should be considered PvE-only, and so, not usable by heroes.

We don't need to encourage the use of heroes even more.

No.

I understand your point here in challenging others to become better at a game. At least this is what I will assume you mean and I am going to put words in your mouth since you have done such a lousy job at saying this. However your point is weak and you still come off sounding arrogant and elitist. You continually refer to people who might need this as "bad players" instead of thinking maybe they are still learning to play the game better without such crutches. Everyone learns, to do anything, at their own pace and some may take longer than others to become proficient at it. Who are you to say that the OPs idea is a bad idea because you are better at this game than someone else? That you dont need any crutches is fine, some may. So many different items have been put into this game to aid people that I dont see how this would affect it anymore. If this helps them become less frustrated so they can play the game longer, and not give up, that they actually do learn to play without these items, then I say its a good idea.

By your own admission, "DP removal should be available to remove DP to allow a mission/quest to be completed when an unexpected DP arises. Good examples of times a DP removal would be good to use? HM elite zones like The Deep, Urgoz Warren, Underworld, Fissure of Woe, etc. The time it takes to do those is not something you want to lose for some unexpected deaths." Seems to me that the OPs idea pertains to this as well. Lets even add soloing HM Frost Maw and on the 4th level unexpected deaths arose, not because of being a bad player, but because key skills were interupted. How would the OPs idea not help here? Seems to me that the OPs idea could be used for so many different places and types of players, yet you jumped to think it would be only for "bad players".

So by making this statement "I'm just not wanting ways for bad players to remain bad and still do well in the game." you have only proved my point that you are an elitist snob, who quoted me trying to say otherwise and failed. So again I ask, how does this affect you? And what does it matter that someone might benefit from the OPs suggestion since it doesnt pertain to you? Why does this bother you so much?

Ultimately, what I gathered from the OPs suggestion is a way to use up the stacks of Holiday items that are acquired INSTEAD of being forced to go out and waste gold on powerstones to do the same thing. Reguardless on whether its for unexpected deaths OR bad H/H management.

I see affordable alternatives that come from events. And there is even collector item.

Also, powerstone not only removes DP, it also buffs party.

If you still really want something, i would humbly suggest this PvE-only skill:

"Selfless Revival"
Enchantment Spell 10e, 8s cast, 1s recharge.
Unlinked.
Target party member is ressurected with 50% life and 50% energy and is enchanted with Revival, transfering 1% of DP to caster each seccond. Ends if caster reaches maximum DP. This skill is easily interrupted.

Here, you can suffer DP instead of party member, and so you can use existing consumable to remove it.

this!

and we already got plenty of options to remove DP from heroes, also some completely independant of events, I won't bother listing them all, use /wiki for teh win.

The problem I've noticed with heroes and henchmen accumulating DP is at some point it reaches a "critical mass" where by that specific hero will be the run's "bitch". Like lets say I have vekk specced out with a good staff, runes ect, but he gets ganked before the healer AI can deal with it, or we come across a hard hitting boss, he goes down, you think 1 out of 8 while fighting HM ele bosses, you expect some losses, no biggiee right? Well, he gets back up. Then, next mob, they must sense he's got slightly lower HP, so they gank him, like golems will just lightning orb his ass or he gets dogpiled by melee or something, he goes down again his HP gets lower, he gets more susceptible to HM's heavy hitters, even manually proting him, and as the run goes I have to set him half a radar screen away so he doesn't drop dead instantly, taking him out of the fight totally till he gets in shape(I once had a bunch of heket run past me, past my WHOLE 6 other mid and back liners aaaaaaalll the way to vekk/olias i can't remember who the bitch was that run, but he was all by himself at the edge of the radar.... it was hilarious and sad...)

Everybody else will be at +10% but the run's "bitch" just stays at 60% the whole time. It'd be nice to not have to burn the expensive and valuable party wide buffers on 1 guy, especially if you have tons of the crap laying around is all.

4 leaf clovers...(5% to 15%)
powerstone of courage....(10%)
honeycomb..(5%)
rainbow candycanes...(5%)

Woudnt be bad to display a msg to ask u wich party member u want to erase 15% DP. WCC is easier to get so you will have to use more of them to erase DP on party members , seems fine to me
SIGNED

PD:RCC affects entire party , it should give 2 damn sweet points thou

There is a different candy and other consumables that gives the WHOLE party 5% morale. Although it's signifigantly a tad than the single use of the candy. However the point here is there is no need to pass the candy to a hero when there is another consumable that gives morale to your team. This is for the purpose of helping out your henchies and heroes at least a little bit. If everyone think that sucks, ask for the morale boost of the party-wide consumables be increased. That sounds a lot simple than this idea, especially.

/not signed.

/signed

I love this idea.

I would love this feature.

With this limitation.

Your post made me laugh, really funny
Indeed you have really a good point on that.

Just kill more... the XP will help remove the DP... if get lots of party DP then Powerstone.... think trying to implement playerbased DP removers for heros a waste of time....

Sure it is a cool idea and i would support it. Im not dying for it though. Usually i just pop a clover or if i don't want to do that, i just pop an exp scroll.
Next time you have more DP on your heroes than you can handle, just pop an experience scroll.

/meh

There really do need to be some downsides to using heroes. This is still a multiplayer game.

/notsigned