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My purpose of this thread is to try to get enough votes for anet to possibly do something about it.
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Who uses Mark of Protection? WHO EVER used that skill to begin with. Its useless. The same with alot of the older elites in general. Same goes for Martyr? Etc Im using prot attribute as an example here just to make a point.
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What would the rest of the guildwars world gain from an ELITE revamp?
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To be honest looking at this in the most negative way possible I CRAVE to have some more interesting things done with regards to the prot attrib.
Maybe I'm looking for something different and interesting.
But on the best side possible, trying to keep Guildwars "Guild wars". I love the game for its complexity, endless build possibilities. However i personally think that, in this instance, it is being squandered by the overpowering nature of "HEALING PRAYERS" Maybe just their ease of use?
If it comes to my opinion i personally think healing prayers should be made a little less powerful and prot prayers more useful, which would in turn help ease the "HBmonk" spam in all high end areas, and keep things interesting.
But this isnt my point
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I ask you all, do you think that something could or should be done to make some of the "prot" elites worth while? Even if for the sake of making things interesting?
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IF YOU DO AGREE and think that the useless elites could be made more interesting, How? Maybe post your own skill ideas. In the case of Prot prayers Perhaps having some form of energy management? What would you replace, with what and why.
For Example:
Mark of protection: For 8 seconds, the next time you take damage, that damage is halved and you gain 1-13 energy. You shadow step to a nearby location. Self Target only Energy: 5, Cast time: 1/4, recharge: 15
(Please bear in mind that im not talking about nerfing anything, only making an attribute not only more interesting but actually USABLE)
((P.S obviously hybrids are an exception, but you will find that 90% of those are mostly heal side heavy AND no elites are used))
Sorry, now that i have actually explained myself instead of rambled on about useless crap and over exagerating to make a point you might all gain some use out of this post.
Protection Attribute Abandoned?
Xzodia Omaega
Lusciious
yeah, that was what i was thinking too.
look, WoH + PS + Vig spirit + Spotless > ZB + RoF + 7 seconds guardian.
guardian can be easily countered by a simple enchant removal or switching to another target. it might even backfire if someone uses defile defences on you.
what im trying to prove is healing prayers is way more OP compared to protection prayers. but heres the thing, say its the first time you played GW, and someone talks to you about protection prayer. what would come into your mind first ? protecting. protecting means negating damage, and to PREVENT damage. you/someone don't think of healing when you/someone talks to a newcomer about protection prayer. most of the elites in the protection attribute does what its supposed to do. preventing and negating damage.
i'm not support any sides. all i think is that healing prayers are way too good compared to protection prayers. with 5 in protection prayers, you can already get a 4 second long guardian which could help healing monks prevent some damage but with 5 in healing prayers, you cant heal shit with any healing skills. gift of health wouldn't heal much either. get what i'm trying to say ?
look, WoH + PS + Vig spirit + Spotless > ZB + RoF + 7 seconds guardian.
guardian can be easily countered by a simple enchant removal or switching to another target. it might even backfire if someone uses defile defences on you.
what im trying to prove is healing prayers is way more OP compared to protection prayers. but heres the thing, say its the first time you played GW, and someone talks to you about protection prayer. what would come into your mind first ? protecting. protecting means negating damage, and to PREVENT damage. you/someone don't think of healing when you/someone talks to a newcomer about protection prayer. most of the elites in the protection attribute does what its supposed to do. preventing and negating damage.
i'm not support any sides. all i think is that healing prayers are way too good compared to protection prayers. with 5 in protection prayers, you can already get a 4 second long guardian which could help healing monks prevent some damage but with 5 in healing prayers, you cant heal shit with any healing skills. gift of health wouldn't heal much either. get what i'm trying to say ?
moriz
prot and heal are on rough parity now. before prot was infinitely more powerful than heal. even today, most monk builds will still have around three prot spells at the very least. if you take self defense/energy skills into accoun (typically there are two on each bar), then prot covers half of a typical monk's spell list.
zwei2stein
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Xzodia Omaega
Who uses Mark of Protection? WHO EVER used that skill to begin with. Its useless.
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![[Morkai]](/static/static/../Img/avatar144860_1.gif){kind=avatar}
[Morkai]
lolryan.
Tbh in PvE hybrids dominate over single attribute bars anyway.
The reason they haven't been changed is because they're seen as "balanced". Sure there are only a few Elites that actually see play, but this is the case with all attributes.
For example in PvE for say Swordsmanship. [Dragon Slash] and [Hundred Blades] are used, nothing much else. I'm just failing to see why you think it's only Protection that has been singled out. Perhaps you could enlighten me.
To further my point even more, sure, Healing Prayers does dominate, but you can't mitigate every single packet of damage that comes through your team, it's impractical and quite frankly rather bad to even try to do so.
I've always seen Prot as an attribute you can spec into for some of the few skills actually worth one of my eight slots, to compliment a bar.
Though i do agree that maybe it needes a little more diversity in the attribute.
In PvP, certain elites are utilized more than others because they do the job the best. [Restore Condition] for example, is a staple of any balanced 8 man build. You can rival the skill with other options, [Peace and Harmony] and [Life Sheath] have been recent contenders (though PnH is DF). But if you make a few more elites equal to RC, then what's the point, apart from changing skill icons?
Overall I can see why you'd think it may need expanding, but your reasons aren't really solid imo.
Tbh in PvE hybrids dominate over single attribute bars anyway.
The reason they haven't been changed is because they're seen as "balanced". Sure there are only a few Elites that actually see play, but this is the case with all attributes.
For example in PvE for say Swordsmanship. [Dragon Slash] and [Hundred Blades] are used, nothing much else. I'm just failing to see why you think it's only Protection that has been singled out. Perhaps you could enlighten me.
To further my point even more, sure, Healing Prayers does dominate, but you can't mitigate every single packet of damage that comes through your team, it's impractical and quite frankly rather bad to even try to do so.
I've always seen Prot as an attribute you can spec into for some of the few skills actually worth one of my eight slots, to compliment a bar.
Though i do agree that maybe it needes a little more diversity in the attribute.
In PvP, certain elites are utilized more than others because they do the job the best. [Restore Condition] for example, is a staple of any balanced 8 man build. You can rival the skill with other options, [Peace and Harmony] and [Life Sheath] have been recent contenders (though PnH is DF). But if you make a few more elites equal to RC, then what's the point, apart from changing skill icons?
Overall I can see why you'd think it may need expanding, but your reasons aren't really solid imo.
laksa and curry
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Xzodia Omaega
[B]
LF HB MONK ANYTHING ELSE IS NOOB. and so that there is more reason to have a prot heavy bar. ))[/U][/I] |
WOH hybrids get a lot of rejection too. I cant understand why so many insist in HB and even if the team fails the HB monk are not blamed, but if you run WOH hybrid you will get cursed.
zling
well, from a PvE's prespective Protection Prayers will never be as attractive as Healing Prayers because PuGs are stupid thus require brainless builds. spamming healing skills on recharge while under HB is as brainless as it gets. prots could do it better? sure, if you know what the hell you're doing, which most PuG monks dont...
from a PvP's prespective nobody leaves home without a Prot Monk, or well, a Hybrid in most cases. WoH and ZB(shouldnt be in Prot but that's a different subject) with a few prots, hex removal and condi removal are dominant in arenas and in GvG. in HA it's RC/LS(pure prot) and HB(pure heal) with the odd PnH as a 3rd monk.
however you've missed the problem with prot prayers. the problem is not neccessarily the elites, as SoD for example does it's job very well, it's just that nobody takes it any more for various reasons. it's too easy to fit a few cheap prots on a Hybrid bar, and be very effective with it. see WoH/ZB comment from the above paragraph. also the RC, while a perfectly fine and valid build shows a different aspect of the problem, the elite itself is a mass condition removal! the role of the RC monks is first of all to combat conditions, than put up AoS and a few prots here and there. if the RC prot is really good it can even catch some spikes with SB.
the main problem with the prot line is that it isnt good enough to stand by itself. first of all you can never negate 100% of the damage. second of all prots are easy to avoid, be it enchantment removal, anti block hexes like MoI and Rigor Mortis or simple target swapping. for these reasons you'll always need this tool to "push red bars up". moreover there are more attractive options nowadays such as WoW, SoR and other unremovable skills, be it weapon spells, shouts, chants or whatever.
so enough of my rambling, prots are still powerful and a key part to any 8 man backline, however it's role has been weakened thus it needs a lot of support around it to be as effective as it used to be.
from a PvP's prespective nobody leaves home without a Prot Monk, or well, a Hybrid in most cases. WoH and ZB(shouldnt be in Prot but that's a different subject) with a few prots, hex removal and condi removal are dominant in arenas and in GvG. in HA it's RC/LS(pure prot) and HB(pure heal) with the odd PnH as a 3rd monk.
however you've missed the problem with prot prayers. the problem is not neccessarily the elites, as SoD for example does it's job very well, it's just that nobody takes it any more for various reasons. it's too easy to fit a few cheap prots on a Hybrid bar, and be very effective with it. see WoH/ZB comment from the above paragraph. also the RC, while a perfectly fine and valid build shows a different aspect of the problem, the elite itself is a mass condition removal! the role of the RC monks is first of all to combat conditions, than put up AoS and a few prots here and there. if the RC prot is really good it can even catch some spikes with SB.
the main problem with the prot line is that it isnt good enough to stand by itself. first of all you can never negate 100% of the damage. second of all prots are easy to avoid, be it enchantment removal, anti block hexes like MoI and Rigor Mortis or simple target swapping. for these reasons you'll always need this tool to "push red bars up". moreover there are more attractive options nowadays such as WoW, SoR and other unremovable skills, be it weapon spells, shouts, chants or whatever.
so enough of my rambling, prots are still powerful and a key part to any 8 man backline, however it's role has been weakened thus it needs a lot of support around it to be as effective as it used to be.
Wish Swiftdeath
Not really, there are still lots of great skills in prot which always find a place on my bar.
Just don't be bad and use HB
Just don't be bad and use HB
kostolomac
Apart from some crappy elites (which attribute doesn't have crappy elites?), protection magic is one of the best attributes for support if we don't take ["Save Yourselves!"] in consideration.
MasterSasori
No, I don't imagine Protection Prayers nearly as weak as you think.
RoF, PS, SB, Guardian, Dismiss, Mending Touch, RC, and SoA see alot of play.
Some of the best monks I know still use ZB.
Healing Prayers is just easier to use and therefore everyone hops onto the HB Heal party bandwagon and thus Prot prayers look weaker since no one is using it.
The common day monk philosophy is Red Bars Up and not how its supposed to be: proting.
RoF, PS, SB, Guardian, Dismiss, Mending Touch, RC, and SoA see alot of play.
Some of the best monks I know still use ZB.
Healing Prayers is just easier to use and therefore everyone hops onto the HB Heal party bandwagon and thus Prot prayers look weaker since no one is using it.
The common day monk philosophy is Red Bars Up and not how its supposed to be: proting.
Lourens
Protection Prayer is far more powerful then healing prayers Imo ,
Healing prayers alone wont save you from a coordinated spike
O and btw this thread needs to be moved to Sardelac Sanctum...
Healing prayers alone wont save you from a coordinated spike
O and btw this thread needs to be moved to Sardelac Sanctum...
laksa and curry
To add on, Protective spirit is the 1st skill on any build my monk uses. Unless in build specific area or assign specific task by group leader.
Improvavel
No, protections is quite fine.
Only recently with the [[Light of deliverance] (pre nerf) and now with the buff of [[Word of healing] is healing prayers of any use.
Long time ago, the GOOD monk bars were [[mantra of recall] or [[energy drain], [[divine boon] protection prayer monks or [[life barrier]/[[life bond] monks.
Only recently with the [[Light of deliverance] (pre nerf) and now with the buff of [[Word of healing] is healing prayers of any use.
Long time ago, the GOOD monk bars were [[mantra of recall] or [[energy drain], [[divine boon] protection prayer monks or [[life barrier]/[[life bond] monks.
glacialphoenix
Quote:
| That there needs to be something done to make the prot attribute more attractive so that people arnt screaming out LF HB MONK ANYTHING ELSE IS NOOB. |
This does not make prot weaker. It DOES make it underappreciated.
Quote:
| RoF, PS, SB, Guardian, Dismiss, Mending Touch, RC, and SoA see alot of play. |
MithranArkanere
Yeah. A Healing Monk cannot do anything about the strongest spikes without someone negating damage.
Wubbies
i think u need to be more specific because it depends on the area u want to monk. if u are in hm or an elite area and are used to prevent a spike thats one thing or do u want to cover (heal) everyone. i believe it also depends on the parties builds they are using. If you are doing HM fow or Doa u have a Warrior Ob Tank you would want a bonder not healer for that tank.
i dont believe in making protection more powerful than healing ..thats unblanaced. i beleve that some elites and skills in general suck on both healing and protection. however as someone stated LS and ZB are pretty awsome.
if protection suked so bad why can a protect monk typically tank better than a heal monk? ( i feel some hot flames heading my way )
Basically imo i dont agree with healing is more powerful than healing.. depends on the application
i dont believe in making protection more powerful than healing ..thats unblanaced. i beleve that some elites and skills in general suck on both healing and protection. however as someone stated LS and ZB are pretty awsome.
if protection suked so bad why can a protect monk typically tank better than a heal monk? ( i feel some hot flames heading my way )
Basically imo i dont agree with healing is more powerful than healing.. depends on the application
JASON626
You have to sort out this discussion between the diffrent pve areas and and diffrent pvp areas. They require diffrent setups typically.
Ya going in the Deep elite mission they want HB monks which is boring. You get a BiP plus glyph of lesser and push button heal party. Then you have 600 monk for farming/running missions using spirit bond to heal himself while keeping shield of absorption on to negate ongoing damage.
PvP gvg and HA require some mixing. Identifying which skill to use, reading the enemy. Not just looking at red bar party list healing it when you can look at the person and see what type of damage is being dealt.
Ya going in the Deep elite mission they want HB monks which is boring. You get a BiP plus glyph of lesser and push button heal party. Then you have 600 monk for farming/running missions using spirit bond to heal himself while keeping shield of absorption on to negate ongoing damage.
PvP gvg and HA require some mixing. Identifying which skill to use, reading the enemy. Not just looking at red bar party list healing it when you can look at the person and see what type of damage is being dealt.
Xzodia Omaega
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MasterSasori
No, I don't imagine Protection Prayers nearly as weak as you think.
Healing Prayers is just easier to use and therefore everyone hops onto the HB Heal party bandwagon and thus Prot prayers look weaker since no one is using it. The common day monk philosophy is Red Bars Up and not how its supposed to be: proting. |
What you said about the fact that hb is easier to play mixed with the fact that monks are probably one of the most played proffs might have something to do with why i feel that the attribs getting neglected.
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Originally Posted by Wish Swiftdeath
Not really, there are still lots of great skills in prot which always find a place on my bar.
Just don't be bad and use HB |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by laksa and curry
WOH hybrids get a lot of rejection too. I cant understand why so many insist in HB and even if the team fails the HB monk are not blamed, but if you run WOH hybrid you will get cursed.
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However thats not my point
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Originally Posted by [Morkai]
lolryan.
Overall I can see why you'd think it may need expanding, but your reasons aren't really solid imo. |
Also read what i said before, something like "maybe i just want to see something interesting"
Quote:
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Originally Posted by zwei2stein
I used that to farm. I use that to farm. I would be pissed if it was changed.
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It was to be made example of. Ultimately its a completely useless skill, feel free to tell me how you can use this skill even for farming When you have HB/WoH/ZB/RoJ ETC ETC?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lusciious
yeah, that was what i was thinking too.
look, WoH + PS + Vig spirit + Spotless > ZB + RoF + 7 seconds guardian. guardian can be easily countered by a simple enchant removal or switching to another target. it might even backfire if someone uses defile defences on you. ... protecting means negating damage, and to PREVENT damage. |
"Protection means to prevent damage"? In my opinion this is too vauge a concept to use for guildwars because of its complexity.
Heres a few new applications. "Protection of energy" (Perhaps acually having a skill in the monk portfolio that directly affects energy gain.)
Or protection against stacking effects? such as shouts and chants, or weapon effects?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lourens
Protection Prayer is far more powerful then healing prayers Imo ,
Healing prayers alone wont save you from a coordinated spike |
MY POINT: Revisit the useless elites to make things a little more interesting prot side wise. Plus your talking about pvp, in which prot is still the attribute of kings anyway.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Wubbies
i think u need to be more specific
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The useless elites should be revisited and changed to make things more applicable to the current state of guild wars.
Come on guys im not talking about the things that are allready useful or that are HALF useful. Im talking about redesigning skills so that they can actually be used.
Im not saying REBALANCE EVERYTHING - My opinion was that healing prayers was more favoured. JUST my opinion.
Im saying to revamp the skills that are never used. In this case i applied it to prot prayers. I do not think this an unsound or unsolid opinion
Either way i hope the majority understand what im getting at now.
Another thing i just thought about was: Think back to Proph days. we didnt have so many shouts, weapon spells spirit effects, echos and so on.
do you think we should have prot skills that negate/remove some of these effects?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lourens
O and btw this thread needs to be moved to Sardelac Sanctum...
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REMEMBER IM NOT SAYING ANYTHING IS WEAKER
Xzodia Omaega
Quote:
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Originally Posted by JASON626
You have to sort out this discussion between the diffrent pve areas and and diffrent pvp areas. They require diffrent setups typically.
Ya going in the Deep elite mission they want HB monks which is boring. You get a BiP plus glyph of lesser and push button heal party. Then you have 600 monk for farming/running missions using spirit bond to heal himself while keeping shield of absorption on to negate ongoing damage. PvP gvg and HA require some mixing. Identifying which skill to use, reading the enemy. Not just looking at red bar party list healing it when you can look at the person and see what type of damage is being dealt. |
Lets again use Mark of Protection as an example. Let me reiterate AS AN EXAMPLE as i find the skill practically useless in every way.
Mark of Protection (PvE) For 1-10 seconds all allies within earshot can only take damage equivilent to 7% of their maximum health. Enchantment. Energy: 10, Cast time: 2, Recharge 30
Mark of Protection (PvP) For 3 seconds damage caused by spells heal target ally for the same amount. Maximum 13-68 Energy:10, Cast time: 1/4, Recharge: 10
Hopefully now you all understand where im coming from? "Revamping useless elites"
Another example:
Martyr: (PvE) Creates a level 1-10 spirit that lives for 17...130 seconds. Each condition and hex that allies would take are negated, spirit takes 60-30 health loss for each one negated. Cost: 15, Cast time 5, Recharge: 45
Martyr: (PvP) Creates a level.... spirit that lives for... Environmental effects, spirits, weapon effects and shouts that would stack damage or cause conditions are negated. Etc
spirit of defeat
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Xzodia Omaega
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My purpose of this thread is to try to get enough votes for anet to possibly do something about it. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~ |
And Spawning power is more broken then Protection.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Xzodia Omaega
Martyr: (PvE) Creates a level 1-10 spirit that lives for 17...130 seconds. Each condition and hex that allies would take are negated, spirit takes 60-30 health loss for each one negated. Cost: 15, Cast time 5, Recharge: 45
Martyr: (PvP) Creates a level.... spirit that lives for... Environmental effects, spirits, weapon effects and shouts that would stack damage or cause conditions are negated. Etc |
And removing both hexes and conditions :S
FAIL
Xzodia Omaega
Quote:
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Originally Posted by spirit of defeat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xzodia Omaega View Post ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~ My purpose of this thread is to try to get enough votes for anet to possibly do something about it. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~ As a Rit Who has viewed many topics on Spawning power. I say no. And Spawning power is more broken then Protection. |
Let me correct you!! This WAS A topoc about protection prayers, which was badly planned on my part.
Let me Correct myself: This is a topic about Revisiting USELESS elites.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by spirit of defeat
And monks summoning spirits?
FAIL |
Good day sir!
As a final note please Read and understand what your getting into before you spew unpleasent and unwanted body compounds all over my just cleaned thread
t00115577
prot > healing. always has, always will. If damage is negated, no need to heal, nuff said.
As for elites being buffed, I think for one LS should go back to the way it was, what do we need a bad version of RC for, as the old LS was a nice different functionality.
It would be nice to have a change to Amity and Air Of Enchantment, as they are a joke now. Other than this I think the prot line is fine as is.
As for elites being buffed, I think for one LS should go back to the way it was, what do we need a bad version of RC for, as the old LS was a nice different functionality.
It would be nice to have a change to Amity and Air Of Enchantment, as they are a joke now. Other than this I think the prot line is fine as is.
Xzodia Omaega
Quote:
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Originally Posted by t00115577
prot > healing. always has, always will. If damage is negated, no need to heal, nuff said.
As for elites being buffed, I think for one LS should go back to the way it was, what do we need a bad version of RC for, as the old LS was a nice different functionality. It would be nice to have a change to Amity and Air Of Enchantment, as they are a joke now. Other than this I think the prot line is fine as is. |
I mean i would like to see Divine Boon changed so that there is more flexibility. Theres just no way you can use it in a practical sense anymore, and it used to be such an awesome skill. Perhaps the Heal cost: you loose 2 energy Could be changed to:
Heal cost: you loose 2 energy if you cast a non protection spell
OR
Heal cost: you loose 2 energy if your target was below 50% hp
As for RC, It is an awesome spell but i dont get the point in not being able to self target. In my opinion it should be removed its allready got once requirement which is "Heals for each condition" meaning RC is useless unless your ally is conditioned.
zwei2stein
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Xzodia Omaega
Other than being an irrelivant and unhelpful comment, you would not only be amongst a .001 percent of the guild wars population that does use it.
It was to be made example of. Ultimately its a completely useless skill, feel free to tell me how you can use this skill even for farming When you have HB/WoH/ZB/RoJ ETC ETC? |
Anyway...
Xzodia Omaega
Quote:
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Originally Posted by zwei2stein
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Other than that i wonder how long it took you to find a vid that uses MoP?
You can solo this with any proffession, you can duo with any, and you could use a team OR heros and henchmen.
When you find a build that actually uses MoP where it hasnt just been thrown in for shits and giggles, and when you actually have a comment to make thats half way respectable i will listen and respond with respect.
Untill then please go elsewhere
zwei2stein
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Xzodia Omaega
Pointing out the fact that there are MANY unused elites that could be made interesting, useable or fun is the FARTHEST thing from pointless. Anet does 90% of all its changes from the Feedback they get from fansite forums such as this.
Other than that i wonder how long it took you to find a vid that uses MoP? You can solo this with any proffession, you can duo with any, and you could use a team OR heros and henchmen. When you find a build that actually uses MoP where it hasnt just been thrown in for shits and giggles, and when you actually have a comment to make thats half way respectable i will listen and respond with respect. Untill then please go elsewhere |
See, skill is not useless or ready for revamp just because you say so. Prot prayers are not in need of great skills. They in fact never were. Anet changes based on pointless feedback only ever caused WTF & QQ.
MagmaRed
I don't see a need for Protection Prayers to get a boost over some other attributes (Spawning Power for example. There are a lot of elites in Protection Prayers that get regular use in both PvE and PvP. Restore Condition, Life Sheath, Life Barrier, Divert Hexes, Shield of Regeneration, Shield of Deflection, and Zealous Benediction all get used. Some may not get used much, or only in specific places, but they all get used. That only leaves Amity, Mark of Protection, Air of Enchantment, and Aura of Faith. I'm sure some people use them (MoP at least) for certain things, but those don't get used much. The attribute as a whole is very good, and doesn't need 'fixing'. I'm not aware of any skill that is grossly over powered or under powered.
Wanting a couple of elites changed is far different than your topic title suggests. Even then, you'd need to explain why a specific skill SHOULD be changed, as well as HOW it should be changed.
Wanting a couple of elites changed is far different than your topic title suggests. Even then, you'd need to explain why a specific skill SHOULD be changed, as well as HOW it should be changed.
Red Sand
From the 11 December 2008 Developer Update:
So the question to ask is: does Mark of Protection meet these criteria more than any other Monk Skill?
I'm am probably not qualified to know if a change to Mark of Protection is imbalancing, but I think the developers are on the right track when it comes to changing "bad" elites into "good" ones.
Quote:
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When choosing which Elites to change, we looked at a number of factors: -The skill has to be generally unused across all formats. -All professions should have about the same number of updates (with the inevitable variations). -The skill has to be weak regardless of trends in the game. A skill that's strong as a counter to certain PvP builds but not others would not generally qualify. |
Quote:
| Monk Elites are a very delicate balance. They have to be very powerful to compete with other Elites, but not too powerful lest they bog the game down with too much defense. We chose a few skills that we were sure very few players used and gave them new roles that will allow them to compete with current favorites without raising the bar on Monk power. |
Xzodia Omaega
Quote:
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Originally Posted by zwei2stein
Why would i need to google it? I made it. It was once top secret build, clearing cave in 12 seconds when executed perfectly. Not a thing you can ignore even in age of SF sins.
See, skill is not useless or ready for revamp just because you say so. Prot prayers are not in need of great skills. They in fact never were. Anet changes based on pointless feedback only ever caused WTF & QQ. |
Im not Q.Q im not WTF, im asking people to voice their opinion, Say what they think is unuseful and give an example of their opinion.
Not only that again im going to caps this: THE PROT ATTRIBUTE WAS AN EXAMPLE
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MagmaRed
... Even then, you'd need to explain why a specific skill SHOULD be changed, as well as HOW it should be changed.
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As for the last part i quoted thats exactly what im trying to get people to debate, unfortunately people like zwie are trying incredibly hard to just be
a dick and flame needlessly.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Red Sand
From the 11 December 2008 Developer Update:
So the question to ask is: does Mark of Protection meet these criteria more than any other Monk Skill? I'm am probably not qualified to know if a change to Mark of Protection is imbalancing, but I think the developers are on the right track when it comes to changing "bad" elites into "good" ones. |
then somebody else can say "i agree" or "dissagree" "BECAUSE..."
Tell me a build that uses mark of prot that isnt "top secret" that people ask for? No matter what proffession you are there really is no reason to take that skill. Which is where the
"-The skill has to be generally unused across all formats. "
comes in.
Written somewhere on the website it states very clearly that anet use the official fansites when it comes to player opinions and if something is pointed out where enough players feedback is good or bad then anet will make a judgement based off of it.
When anet decide to do elite skill changes they will decide specifics, your right. But if there is a thread made by their fans which gives a list of skills people regard as useless and why, mixed with other peoples feedback, they WILL use that.
SO... Is there any skills used by warrior, ranger, monk, ele, mesmer, necro, para, derv etc etc that people find useless? If so Name it here.
If any mods or admins could change the title to "What skills are useless and why?" would be appretiated
Lusciious
Quote:
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Originally Posted by spirit of defeat
As a Rit Who has viewed many topics on Spawning power. I say no.
And Spawning power is more broken then Protection. And monks summoning spirits? And removing both hexes and conditions :S FAIL |
yeah i agree that monks shouldn't be summoning spirits. but why would a [R]RITUALIST[/B] have healing skills ? when the first thing that comes into your mind when you think of ritualists ? rituals ? i don't see anything about healing when i typed "Define: Ritualist/Rituals" in google. its either i'm dumb or something but thats not the point. lol
Xzodia Omaega
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lusciious
so i see you're comparing a rit and a monk now ? rits do higher damage. they have 5 energy spike heals which works just like ZB e.g. spirit light. they have unremoval weapon spells. i'd say a rit don't really need a primary attribute.
yeah i agree that monks shouldn't be summoning spirits. but why would a [R]RITUALIST[/B] have healing skills ? when the first thing that comes into your mind when you think of ritualists ? rituals ? i don't see anything about healing when i typed "Define: Ritualist/Rituals" in google. its either i'm dumb or something but thats not the point. lol |
Not only that it was JUST an idea.
On top of that i dont even think he read the post, he just started talkin about rits and spawning power. lol. i might have this thread closed. its been ruined and i think theres one going allready called Creat skills. that would achieve almost the same things for anet.
Here's the thread: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10033549
Other than that please lock this one, I'm bored of going over the same thing.
gameshoes3003
Since you're talking about revisiting some protection prayers skills, I'll lament on a few.
Reverse Hex:
Yes I know you wanted to talk about elites, but seriously, aside from withdraw hexes (crappy elite), this is not used at all (well for those who use it, do you see other people using it?). I would like it if the cost would be reduced to 5 energy; if the protection part has to be reduced fine; if it has to increased to 3/4 second casting time, fine.
Amity:
I give up on making suggestions to this(I've made a few too many now), just have it changed.
Mark of Protection:
I think it'd be nice if the recharge time was reduced to 30 seconds or at least take off the disabling protection prayers contingent.
Divert Hexes:
I say make it 5 energy and reduce to 2 hexes max, perhaps 3 hexes at 15-16 protection prayers.
Life Attunement:
Make it less negative on the ally, just have a variable negative percent on it. Have it do -40% to -15% as the attributes change.
yep.
Reverse Hex:
Yes I know you wanted to talk about elites, but seriously, aside from withdraw hexes (crappy elite), this is not used at all (well for those who use it, do you see other people using it?). I would like it if the cost would be reduced to 5 energy; if the protection part has to be reduced fine; if it has to increased to 3/4 second casting time, fine.
Amity:
I give up on making suggestions to this(I've made a few too many now), just have it changed.
Mark of Protection:
I think it'd be nice if the recharge time was reduced to 30 seconds or at least take off the disabling protection prayers contingent.
Divert Hexes:
I say make it 5 energy and reduce to 2 hexes max, perhaps 3 hexes at 15-16 protection prayers.
Life Attunement:
Make it less negative on the ally, just have a variable negative percent on it. Have it do -40% to -15% as the attributes change.
yep.
draxynnic
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lusciious
so i see you're comparing a rit and a monk now ? rits do higher damage. they have 5 energy spike heals which works just like ZB e.g. spirit light. they have unremoval weapon spells. i'd say a rit don't really need a primary attribute.
|
Quote:
| yeah i agree that monks shouldn't be summoning spirits. but why would a [R]RITUALIST[/B] have healing skills ? when the first thing that comes into your mind when you think of ritualists ? rituals ? i don't see anything about healing when i typed "Define: Ritualist/Rituals" in google. its either i'm dumb or something but thats not the point. lol |
Rituals are still an important part of the Ritualist's capabilities, but not the only thing.
In short, healing IS a part of the Ritualist's design brief in ANet's eyes. Spirits are most definitely not part of the Monk's.
As another aside... I think people may be stretching the brief of the PvE/PvP skill split. Yes, it means a skill from one can be different to a skill from another in numbers, but they're still supposed to be essentially the same skill... just that one has the numbers balanced for PvE and the other for PvP. Having them do completely different things is something else entirely.
laksa and curry
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Originally Posted by Xzodia Omaega
Thats when you rage obscene words and tell them to uninstall gw. However thats not my point [ |
spirit of defeat
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Xzodia Omaega
Good for you!!!! Umm.. By the way.. "I say no." It seems your just talking crap my friend.
Let me correct you!! This WAS A topoc about protection prayers, which was badly planned on my part. Let me Correct myself: This is a topic about Revisiting USELESS elites. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Xzodia Omaega
Let me correct you AGAIN. YOU FAIL at the concept of GIVING AN EXAMPLE
Good day sir! As a final note please Read and understand what your getting into before you spew unpleasent and unwanted body compounds all over my just cleaned thread |
Monk's shouldn't cast spirits, we have rit's to do that.
MagmaRed
@OP
This is Sardelac. In this forum you present an idea you think would make GW a better game. People then discuss that idea, and agree or disagree with it. You didn't really post an idea. If you want an elite, or a few elites changed, you need to start by picking one or a few and explaining why it should be changed and how it should be changed. The discussion from us would then be on why that idea was good or bad.
If you wanted other people (not yourself) to present skills that should be changed, that is a discussion for Riverside. Basically, it sounds like you want us to make your suggestion for you. I don't think that is your intent, but that is how it sounds to me currently.
Either remake this topic in Riverside where people can discuss various elites they want changed, or remake this topic in Sardelac with specific skills you want changed detailed. I vote for a topic close, as the title and discussion are no where near what the OP wanted.
This is Sardelac. In this forum you present an idea you think would make GW a better game. People then discuss that idea, and agree or disagree with it. You didn't really post an idea. If you want an elite, or a few elites changed, you need to start by picking one or a few and explaining why it should be changed and how it should be changed. The discussion from us would then be on why that idea was good or bad.
If you wanted other people (not yourself) to present skills that should be changed, that is a discussion for Riverside. Basically, it sounds like you want us to make your suggestion for you. I don't think that is your intent, but that is how it sounds to me currently.
Either remake this topic in Riverside where people can discuss various elites they want changed, or remake this topic in Sardelac with specific skills you want changed detailed. I vote for a topic close, as the title and discussion are no where near what the OP wanted.
FoxBat
For most PvE, prot elites are questionable, which is what the OP is trying to get at I think. RC's heal ability depends a ton on enemies using condition stacks (a given in most pvp.) Divert or PnH are good when cleaning SY spammers in say DoA but mostly pointless otherwise. SoR is like an elite healing breeze. My favorite elites for an all-prot build would be things like UA, AP, or even GoR- nothing from the prot line itself. Although Aura of Faith is sorta fun.
It still won't matter for 8-man PvE, but ZB could definitely use a buff. Lower recharge to 3, and maybe change the energy return back to 10. WoH and will still be generally preferred over it, but it might show up in low-end PvP and flaggers.
It still won't matter for 8-man PvE, but ZB could definitely use a buff. Lower recharge to 3, and maybe change the energy return back to 10. WoH and will still be generally preferred over it, but it might show up in low-end PvP and flaggers.
Wubbies
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Originally Posted by t00115577
prot > healing. always has, always will. If damage is negated, no need to heal, nuff said.
As for elites being buffed, I think for one LS should go back to the way it was, what do we need a bad version of RC for, as the old LS was a nice different functionality. It would be nice to have a change to Amity and Air Of Enchantment, as they are a joke now. Other than this I think the prot line is fine as is. |
Power to the hippies!
Lusciious
apparently LS can't push bars up ..
Kattar
Locked by request of OP.