EA's thoughts on marketing strategy

You beat me to it. If the forums were silent about GW2 then ANET would have a problem.

The article is about EA's bad business decisions and how they are planning to change for the future. It has very little to do with ArenaNet and/or GW2.

The quote that everybody is referencing is being pulled out of context. EA is saying that games can't be a secretive, closed development thing with last-minute advertising and hype prior to launch. They are talking about keeping more of an open-door policy and listening to fan input. You could read into it as reading the forums or open-beta testing, but the quote is so generic that it could apply to anything. Most game companies would also say that they do the same things.

Guild Wars 2 isn't like this at all. If anything, ArenaNet announced the game before they had any real material to show fans, probably because they thought that GW2 would be a 2009 release. Now that this is no longer true, fans are increasingly becoming jaded with the lack of news and information. I think that it's a different problem and not related to EA's woes.

The Title of this tread was deceptive. As far as GW2, I espect some news sometime next year. The reason anet wont release any information is because we will elevate the game to a point that the actual game once released will disappoint us.

We just need to wait, move to another game (diablo or StarCraft for example) while we wait and let anet do their job. I do prefer for them to take their time and get an awsome game and not something like the games from EA.

I think Anet should release info but stamp everythign with a "THIS MAY NOT BE IN THE FINAL RELEASE" stamp... it would be nice to know what MAY happen even if it's not certain.

Sound like that guy at EA missed Spore:

EA/MAXIS - Science Spore?
Community - Yes Science Spore Please!!
EA/MAXIS - Releases Cute Spore
Community - WTF
Spore = Fail.

He may want to revist company history on that.

Yea, but other than GWG and incgamers, is anybody else?

The real problem with Spore, once you get past the DRM and useless EA download manager, is that there really isn't much game there.

I wonder if having official forums would have helped Guild Wars. I noticed that Warhammer Online has decided to finally have official forums, after making a big deal for the longest time that they didn't feel they were even remotely worth it. That stance did make sense; after all, what company wants to pay to host something that just turn into the WoW forums? Just let someone else host, moderate, and pay for that expensive waste of time.

However, perhaps they came to realize that leaving your game in the hands of shitty Warhammer Alliance and vnboards was a bad idea.

Perhaps they don't want anyone else to be obsessing about a game they're not going to be able to release for 2 more years? GWG and Incgamers? Pathetically small portion of the costumer base. Let them blather on and on about vaporware and get their willies being clever on the internet. Why would they want the rest of the world to be in on that?

They'll market when it starts being useful to market, I'm sure.

Then why did they announce it at all?

I've said it before, I'll say it again, seems like there's two likely scenarios here: either somebody announced too early and blew it or somebody has clammed up and blew it. I can't see any value in just saying "hey guys, game's coming!" and then going completely dark for two years.

But, then, I don't see things through a thick haze like a typical marketing major (you get the impression I've not been real impressed with the marketing majors I've known?) I'm sticking to my original theory that it's not a marketing issue, it's a technical one, and that whatever comes out as a sequel is going to be a whole new game that behaves as a "spiritual successor" rather than a continuation of the series.

Yea... don't get me started on that. At least the WoW forum has the blues to moderate in a semi-sensible way. Can't say that about inc or GWG.

As has been suggested on threads like this one, there's another (more) likely scenario: they just announced it to explain to the current fanbase why there's no new campaigns coming. Not putting anything new in the stores for years AND not telling us why would surely be even more disastrous than what we have going on now.

I bet that at the time, they thought it wouldn't take that long (which is why they stopped making GW1 expansions entirely). However, since then either there has been feature creep or some aspects of the game just didn't work out and had to be redesigned. Maybe they discovered they were heading in the direction of something that was merely a decent improvement, but not overwhelmingly superior enough go grab lots of players from other games, so it's back to the drawing board.

I concur. There really wasn't much choice - Anet have a set pool of resources. They decided, for numerous reasons, that there were issues with Guild Wars 1 and that could not be broached through adding more chapters (partially because the chapter system with 2 professions and 500 skills a shot was at fault). Instead they would develop GW2, and that would take the majority of their resources. So no more chapters.

They could have:

1. Hidden their new project. People would have noticed no new chapters coming though, and the forums would have been filled with rumours and doomsayers (moreso than now). It is also hard to see how they could have developed and released GW:EotN without announcing GW2, with its role as the tie in to GW2. Certainly we'ld have been poorer for it, with Hall of Monument issue not being address because no-one knowing it ties to GW2.

We'ld know something is up by now anyway because of the NCSoft financial reports, even if it was just listed as "ArenaNet major project" - and given that ArenaNet only make one thing...

2. Announced it. The up side is that people know what is going on, they could explain why they're doing it, and properly announce GW:EotN. The down side is that it was quite a long way away, longer now they've decided to expand GW2 further, so people are getting a bit doom-and-gloomish.

3. ???. I've yet to see anyone complaining about the announcement being early offer a sane alternative. Most of them just say "Oh, announcing a game that early is stupid" and leave it at that, which suggests trolling to me. Because GW isn't just a game. It is a supported online service, with a community that was expecting regular new chapters. Then again, maybe they're just not considering all angles.

The actual important thing is people's opinion of GW when they stop playing - have they enjoyed themselves and just gracefully moved on to something new, in which case when they do hear about GW2 they are likely to give it a try? Or do they distrust ArenaNet because ANet mysteriously stopped supporting the GW with no explanation?

Plan your development cycles better so that by the time you announce your sequel you have something to tease people with?

This is being developed like a single player game. Here's a game, and years later you get sequel. It's not a single player game though, and it's competing for attention with MMOs, whether it likes it or not. While they're not doing anything publicly because there was, apparently, little to no overlap in the development of the new content for 1 and the sequel, WoW is releasing expansions, all new games are coming out, and more and more people are either moving away from Guild Wars or MMOs entirely. Not only do you have the problem of not keeping current players interested, as the dragging sales numbers show, you're not pulling in nearly as many new players in the interim who you can transition to a sequel.

They're going to have to market this as a whole new game that nobody ever heard of in the crowded MMO market. Not good footing to be starting from unless you're a powerhouse in the industry, which they're not.

If it has Guild Wars in the title, I think people will be smart enough to put 2 & 2 together.

How? They had an established 6 monthly release cycle, and it takes multiple years to develop a new game. Any resources not being used for GW2 would be slowing its development further. Even if they left it 6 months after GW:EotN to announce it, which would probably be too long, it still has been over a year.

I disagree with this assessment, although it may just come from my position as someone who doesn't play MMOs but does play Guild Wars - which by most definitions isn't an MMO, although that is another debate.

While the Guild Wars community does overlap with the greater community that plays MMOs, it also caters for more traditional RPG players (it's a coop-Diablo style affair which can be played Solo, and no monthly fee) and people interested in competitive RPGs (while flawed, it is the attempt that has gotten closest). So it has a sub-community who treat it as a singleplayer or non-MMO game, and a captive sub-community that hasn't really got a decent alternative.

I also question how not announcing it when they did would have helped hold on to their players anyway.

Edit:

Announcing GW2 alongside GW:EotN may actually have helped secure players, by:
a) Giving players the goal of filling up their Hall of Monuments for GW2, which keeps them playing longer
b) Once people have filled their Hall of Monuments to a level they're happy with, even if they stop playing they'll want to pick up GW2 to make use of their accomplishments.

I thought that it was by now pretty well established knowledge that at some stage of the development process of GW2 ANet saw a window of opportunity to do something even more ambitious than the original plan and after getting greenlighted by NCSoft restructured the process with the consequence that all deadlines were off. Effectively, they decided to scrap GW2 and go directly for GW3. It's not like they didn't pull the same kind of redesign stunt with the original GW. Just have a look at this alpha trailer and compare it to the finished product which is worlds apart.

Personally i was still relatively interested in GW2 about 6 months ago.

But as further boredom relishes the first game i'm losing interest in it aside from gvg, and maybe that'll go soon too. This completely removes me from guild wars and with nothing about GW2 being released i really don't understand how they expect to keep people hooked in and actually expect them to be excited when they do release info.

All i expect is further and further delays and "not yets" to do with any revelations or dates.

I assume as a gamer that you would keep on top of what new games are in the pipeline, especially the types you are interested in. If you do, you will get info about GW2 when it is released. It is then up to you to decide if it is what you want to purchase.

Meaning people will know to stay away?

Diablo 2 was an exciting game for lots and lots of people. During the 10 (?) years, between 2 and the announcement of 3 a lot of people has quit playing 2. Yet, there's still a great interest in 3, by new players but also by the veterans. I know I haven't played Diablo 2 for over 5 years, but the upcoming release of 3 got me tingling all over .

Meaning that if they have enjoyed playing GW they will give GW2 a try. I can guarantee you will find many familiar names in the GW2 forum, trolls and all.

Yea, people that played the first one. And all the people who get into online gaming after EotN and have never played Guild Wars?

Not really a good metric. I seriously doubt anything even remotely close to a significant number of players ever visit the forums, especially not fansite forums, and especially not forums as nasty and contentious as GWG and inc.

Don't look at me, that's not my job. If I had those kinds of answers I'd be billing ANET and NCSoft right now.

Everyone was all psyched about this new model, but this would appear to be a potentially substantial pitfall: no downtime. Other MMO makers have the luxury of a two year release schedule because there's something to continue playing in the interim and the monthly income can be reinvested in content updates, but ANET doesn't either of those things. Guild Wars is too short to last for years for most people, and they apparently can't afford to keep maintaining it AND develop a new game at the same time. Maybe they should've thought that one through a little further.

You can debate it however you want, it still primarily competes against MMOs whether you personally think it is one or not. There are core players who will never leave for various reasons, yes, but all games have that. It's still compared primarly to MMOs and, thus, is still primarily fighting in that marketspace.

Well, I don't know that it would have. Like I just said above, it may just be that this the point at which the brilliant Guild Wars model breaks down.

Maybe, but, again, the only numbers we have one way or another don't really offer any support for that conclusion.

They will hear about it some other way? Public beta events, trials, advertizing, word of mouth, etc. You know, the same way any other game in existence ever attracts a majority of its customers?

I don't see an issue here.

They will know about it just like any new game and you seem to assume that most gamers live in a vacuum of ignorance.

I was referring to all the people on the forums that claim you won't see them playing GW2.

EDIT: Guru posters are known as angryheads on inc.

ROFLMAO - Who made it that way?

Which is a point I've mentioned before: they may be slowly putting themselves back at square one and being forced to market a whole new game, which means you lose a nice chunk of guaranteed migration from players who are already interested in the current game.

Will it hurt them? I don't know, but I think it would probably be easier to get an established early base by migrating existing players and friendly customers than by being in the position that you have very few people left who will just slide straight from one into two. Not to mention that if you haven't got that initial friendly base built up who will make excuses for you and spread a good word, and you have a rocky launch, you could be launching your game into an outright hostile market.

Bah. I'm giving good odds most of those people will play it anyway. I've "sworn off" WoW twice before and raged in the feedback form you get when you cancel, but I'm back playing it again a third time.

I think most who have played GW and liked it, even if they have been gone for a bit, will know that GW2 is in the works. Plus I think there will be enough who are still playing who will jump right into GW2. If the Hall of Monuments gives some type of thank you reward,(no direct affect on game play) for those who played GW, people will buy just to see what it is. Call me an optimist.

you guys must of not heard that GW2 is a hoax and isnt real.

Your a day late and a dollar short.

My point is that once they decided to go down the GW2 route, the decisions on how to handle announcements and development were not simple, with lots of drawbacks no matter how they approached it. It is all very easy to say "They're doing it wrong!", but you obviously can't back that up with anything concrete they could have done better.

Not really worth arguing or worrying about the inevitable. Given time to develop a new game, of course the community would shrink (it even shrunk between 6 monthly chapters - I know I didn't play for at least 4 months between Factions and Nightfall. People thought GW was doomed about 9 months into the year between Prophecies and Factions). Of course they're going to need a strong marketing campaign to bring in new players. And while they're not making substantial new content for GW, at least they're maintaining it.

In the end GW2 will ride on its pre-release marketing and its own merits (or fall on its failings).