Hello,
First off I do not want this to turn into a flame fest nor do I want this to turn into a my build is better then that build bs that usually happens.
After countless hours of vanquishing with discord way I decided to try ray way. Needless to say i was very thrilled with the results and now run rayway for the remainder of tyria that I have left ( All ready did nf and factions) Below is a reason for running both of them and the negatives of running both of them.
Ray way Positives
1. Still does not make monsters scatter so you can dump as much aoe as you want and they will keep on standin in it.
2. Monks support skills are amazing and with a little fine tuning can make it so you never die.
3. Very fast and effective killer if you have a tank that gets all agro and knows how to tank properly.
4. Coolest skill animation in the game.
Discord way Postives
1. Alot of meat shields from minions.
2. Very fast once minions are up.
Ray way Negatives
1. No meat shields so the tank better be good.
2. Animation gets annoying after awhile.
Discord Negatives
1. Till minions are up team can take alot of pressure
2. Single target spike/pressure damage in large groups of enemies could result in numerous party wipes till the group is dead.
Now on to the more fun part and what I have been doing when I vanquish with a friend of mine. (Note to readers: I am a monk and my friend is a ranger)
I have begun to do some testing of running 3 of the ray way monk bars as my hero's, myself as an ursan just for tanking and kd purposes (i know i know- no need to flame me) And her brining 3 of the discord necro's, and she I beleive runs a burning arrow build if im not mistaken. Why do I run half of each team? Because once minions are up we have meat shields that I really have no need to tank and we have aoe + the ray's automatically do a condition that stays on them for 15 seconds 3 seconds of burning each time they get hit by it get it by it for 5 seconds 5x3= 15 yada yada. Needless to say its aoe dmg with a single target spike= big groups drop really really fast.
My questions to you guys is which do you run? Why? and what are the benifits to both in your own opinions?
Discord way Verse Rayway?
Missmelady
Sora267
On my necro, I've been running 3 Rayway heros with myself as an AotL MM...it's the best of both worlds! 
But on my other characters, I usually run two Rayway heros and one AotL hero, because the AotL hero more than makes up for the lack of a third Rayway hero. I then usually bring healer + prot henchie, a melee henchie, and an interrupt henchie.
But on my other characters, I usually run two Rayway heros and one AotL hero, because the AotL hero more than makes up for the lack of a third Rayway hero. I then usually bring healer + prot henchie, a melee henchie, and an interrupt henchie.
faraaz
One point you missed out on is that discordway relies on hexes and conditions. That means stuff like Shadow of Fear, Enfeebling Blood, Weaken Armor, Suffering etc etc...all of which adds additional pressure against the enemies, particularly in HM. Rayway brings none of that.
Also, Discordway has the best of both worlds AoE ([putrid bile][death nova]+[animate bone minions]) AND Single Target damage ([Discord]). Rayway, on the other hand, only has AoE...[castigation signet] doesnt hold a candle to the stuff you can do with Discordway.
No bone minions in HM is kinda a suicide pact without uber defense like imbagons and cons.
And finally the beauty of it. You could run 7 N/Rt healers packing discord, and as long as your player char can maintain a condition + hex on the called target, you have all the heals you need and ubar dmg too.
Not so much with Smiteway.
Disclaimer: Because these forums are riddled with ridiculously pedantic q.q'ers, this note is necessary. I'm not saying you SHOULD run 7 N/Rt Healers...I'm just saying Discordway is flexible enough that you can do that if you want to.
Also, Discordway has the best of both worlds AoE ([putrid bile][death nova]+[animate bone minions]) AND Single Target damage ([Discord]). Rayway, on the other hand, only has AoE...[castigation signet] doesnt hold a candle to the stuff you can do with Discordway.
No bone minions in HM is kinda a suicide pact without uber defense like imbagons and cons.
And finally the beauty of it. You could run 7 N/Rt healers packing discord, and as long as your player char can maintain a condition + hex on the called target, you have all the heals you need and ubar dmg too.
Not so much with Smiteway.
Disclaimer: Because these forums are riddled with ridiculously pedantic q.q'ers, this note is necessary. I'm not saying you SHOULD run 7 N/Rt Healers...I'm just saying Discordway is flexible enough that you can do that if you want to.
Alex Dimitri
I run Discordway for fast faction gain for my guild.I did my Legendary Vanquisher title in "old days" before Subway, Discordway or any other for that matter, now i sometimes help friends and guildies with VQ and half of team is usual Discordway (it really speed things up).
This Rayway u mentioned i didn`t try from very obvious reason i`m Necro so i can`t tank which makes the whole thing absolete in my case!
But i`ve got interested by your split build Discord/Ray so i`m gonna try that with some guildies!
As far it goes for Discordway i`m in love with that build it simply KICKS ASS and saves lot of nerves and time to people that don`t have much of either (ME
) !!!
This Rayway u mentioned i didn`t try from very obvious reason i`m Necro so i can`t tank which makes the whole thing absolete in my case!
But i`ve got interested by your split build Discord/Ray so i`m gonna try that with some guildies!
As far it goes for Discordway i`m in love with that build it simply KICKS ASS and saves lot of nerves and time to people that don`t have much of either (ME
) !!!
riktw
another downside for rayway is the name
some people call it RoJway, some rayway and some smiteball.
i still run RoJway becouse i need to get master of whispers
some people call it RoJway, some rayway and some smiteball.
i still run RoJway becouse i need to get master of whispers
dejong12
Where can I find the build Rayway?
Spiritz
Rojway is ok but can have drawbacks - heros targetting to early/late on foes and sometimes its havin to wait for recharge.
Some stage there will be a gr8 rojway build that is finetuned , sabway and discordway will be no1 favs till that time comes.
Tho obviously rojway will own against undead anyday vs discord/sabway.
Its also gd to have roj/sabway in a few areas when 2 human team - meatshields help keep foes in 1 place lol
Some stage there will be a gr8 rojway build that is finetuned , sabway and discordway will be no1 favs till that time comes.
Tho obviously rojway will own against undead anyday vs discord/sabway.
Its also gd to have roj/sabway in a few areas when 2 human team - meatshields help keep foes in 1 place lol
Captain Bulldozer
One BIG point that the OP missed in his post as well... The discord heroes bein necros means they have an extremely good, non-removable energy management source, i.e. soul reaping. The better Ray-way alternatives will use mesmer skills for energy gain, but most of these are much less efficient than soul reaping + minions.
Still, I think Ray-way could easily be very good for vanquishing tyria. Tyria seems to have a lot of undead foes, especially around Kryta, so Rayway would be doubly effective there. It should also work reasonably well in the desolation, though it might lack healing for places like Joko's Domain, etc. I do kind of like the idea of 3-discord, 3-wayray heroes for general usage though, but I haven't fully explored it as an option, so maybe I'm missing something.
Still, I think Ray-way could easily be very good for vanquishing tyria. Tyria seems to have a lot of undead foes, especially around Kryta, so Rayway would be doubly effective there. It should also work reasonably well in the desolation, though it might lack healing for places like Joko's Domain, etc. I do kind of like the idea of 3-discord, 3-wayray heroes for general usage though, but I haven't fully explored it as an option, so maybe I'm missing something.
Eragon Zarroc
discord way for destroying pesky single targets and rayway for exciting explosions of groups and fun visuals =D. mixture of the two is sure to do very well and u get the best of both worlds =D
Shadow Own
i see this alot different
imo rayway is only strong if the enemies pressure you, so RoD and the smite condi/hex are very good, discordway is more relying on your own team and less on the enemies. in terms of damage, it doesnt make much difference
imo rayway is only strong if the enemies pressure you, so RoD and the smite condi/hex are very good, discordway is more relying on your own team and less on the enemies. in terms of damage, it doesnt make much difference
Skyy High
Rayway for areas with lots of enemies that don't drop bodies, lots of undead, where I need some strong targetted prot, or areas where AoE is really good to have. Discordway most everywhere else.
Zodiak
DiscordProsDamagePotentially up to 30 minions (Usually at least 12+)
Mass Sing Target AoE through Minions as they spread out to dmg
Minon bombs go Boom! (Large AoE damage)
Minion bombs Poison everything (Degen)
More Bombs from Putrid Bile (AoE & Degen)
Discord (Huge dmg to Called target in short time, very hard to heal through)
ReductionHexes from the Discord bars Disable Ennemies (slower Attack Speed and Lower Attributes)
Spirits That reduce the duration of Conditions (especially nasty ones like Desease)
HealingModerate to Medium Healing x3
Condition Removal through healing
ProtectionLarge dmg reduction as minions take the hits
Aegis (Massive party damage reduction)
Prot Spirit (Awesome protection for Front liners)
EnergySoul Reaping!!! (Triggers on Ennemy Death, Triggers on Minion Death, Triggers on Party member Deaths to a lesser extent)
ConsThings can go bad if the MM dies
Killing can get a problem in heavy hex removal areas
Energy can get a problem in long battles
Defenses rely on Minions
No hex removal
RaywayProsDamageRay of Judgement (Celestial Ox's Space Ion Cannon) Smite Condition (Nice condition removal with +AoE dmg) Smite Hex (Nice Hex removal with +AoE dmg) Remersal of Damage (Meh) ReductionNone HealingAoE Healing ProtectionAegis (AwesomeSauce, multiple heroes carrying it depending on the Rayway team) Prot Spirit (More AwesomeSauce) EnergyCastigation signet ConsEnergy can be a problem if ennemies not attacking (No energy from Castigation Signet) Party is more vulnerable to damage Slow recharging Rays Perma Blind (if Front liner)
RaywayProsDamageRay of Judgement (Celestial Ox's Space Ion Cannon) Smite Condition (Nice condition removal with +AoE dmg) Smite Hex (Nice Hex removal with +AoE dmg) Remersal of Damage (Meh) ReductionNone HealingAoE Healing ProtectionAegis (AwesomeSauce, multiple heroes carrying it depending on the Rayway team) Prot Spirit (More AwesomeSauce) EnergyCastigation signet ConsEnergy can be a problem if ennemies not attacking (No energy from Castigation Signet) Party is more vulnerable to damage Slow recharging Rays Perma Blind (if Front liner)
Shadow K N I F E
i dont run either, ive been running an sh nuker, jagged mm(a real mm, with more than just bone minions :P) and a SoD prot monk for the last year and a half. served me well through 30 max on my ranger and another 28 on my sin. on my sin who as of late is my main char just cuz i play her more i run either meobius/blossom or temple/blossom depending on the kind of enemies in an area, both builds with crit agility and save yourselves. the IAS combined with dual attacks allows me to keep up sy just as much as an imbagon, that combined with the SoD hero, a healer hench and body blocking from minions is more than enough to keep party alive. I can spike any regular target (non-boss) down with 1-2 combos(taking ~3 seconds) and i can keep the combos going from target to target. ive never ran discord or RoJ for vanqing, or even sab for that matter, but ive ran with other people who use them and i never had a liking for the builds. but imo my spiking dmg is about =to discord from the 3 heros combined. the nuker hero combined with ele henches is just like having RoJ heros minus the armor ignoring. and the party wide prot from my sy and the SoD heros build along with w/e the monk hench uses is just like having an imbagon on your team or using consumables(which i dont use btw). it wasnt AS easy on my ranger due to less dmg and lack of sy but it can be used with any main prof to vanq any area or do any mission(with some minor adjustments depending on which) in the game. pros: all of the above. cons:*starts to think if there are any* idk if i was only supposed to post if i used either of the 2 builds said in the topic but this is what i use
Ariena Najea
I have had great success with both, and have come up with a simple way of determining which I use.
For nearly all 4 man areas, I find that RoJ spam works better than Discord spam.
For nearly all 6 man areas, I find that they work equally well.
For nearly all 8 man areas, I find that Discord spam works better than RoJ spam.
There have been some good points in this thread, and one that most players who use RoJ seem to miss is that you need a good tank (or MM) to maximize effectiveness. Also note, in areas that have large mobs of enemies (especially melee) that RoJ seems to do better due to its AoE nature. In areas that have a higher percent of spellcasters, Discord out-performs. In either case, I typically bring a single hero as a [[Jagged Bones] MM to help hold aggro and provide support.
For nearly all 4 man areas, I find that RoJ spam works better than Discord spam.
For nearly all 6 man areas, I find that they work equally well.
For nearly all 8 man areas, I find that Discord spam works better than RoJ spam.
There have been some good points in this thread, and one that most players who use RoJ seem to miss is that you need a good tank (or MM) to maximize effectiveness. Also note, in areas that have large mobs of enemies (especially melee) that RoJ seems to do better due to its AoE nature. In areas that have a higher percent of spellcasters, Discord out-performs. In either case, I typically bring a single hero as a [[Jagged Bones] MM to help hold aggro and provide support.
Saraneth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missmelady
Quote: Originally Posted by Missmelady Single target spike/pressure damage in large groups of enemies could result in numerous party wipes till the group is dead. Discord setups have their own armor-ignoring aoe dmg. As mentioned, they're also equip with conditions suited to crowd control.
Quote: Originally Posted by Zodiak Things can go bad if the MM dies As you pointed out, discord teams usually spread their minion summon skills across bars; thus, the "MM" is actually a joint operation among the nec heroes. For the "MM" to die, a party wipe would have to be in order. A party wipe is not a con, as it often stems from player error.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zodiak
Defenses rely on Minions
Don't discount conditions and prots, as indicated by your "Pros" section. I'm not sure why you moved to contradict yourself with the "Cons." I dont see what's so difficult to use about rayway and you wont need a tank if you have a snare. I frequently afk through it and let my heroes do the killing.Quote:
Your assessment is wrong, mate. Please show me discordway completing Slaver's HM. Rayway can.
It's true, discordway is easier to use and can be used by more professions. It's also true that rayway needs a tank to be used to its full potential and is harder to use. However, that does not change the fact that rayway can do everything discordway can and more. Quote: Quote: |
