Change/Remove Xunlai rewards

The main problem with the Xunlai Tourney rewards is that it becomes possible for a single person to generate very large amounts of in game items(Zaishen Keys) for very little effort(albeit real world expense), as individuals may purchase Multiple accounts.
The obvious consequence of this is that Keys are going to get devalued over time at a much faster rate, not to mention the fact that it now becomes possible for one to spend real world money for in game cash equivalents.
Now as far as I know, the whole purpose of keys, was to create increased participation in PvP, as was the xunlai tournament house... one way or another.

However, if the keys get devalued, this would make the balth rewards from PvP less valuable, and obviously, the implementation of the Xunlai tournament house would be very counter productive.

Being a fan of Pvp, I really don't want to see this happen, despite the fact that i get fairly decent rewards every month.
So my suggestion is either a change to the system that results in reduced depreciation of PvP rewards, or the full removal of the Xunlai rewards.

edit: summary-
-XTH is causing a large injection of Keys into the economy resulting in inflation.
-Can be abused by people spending Money (bad in it's self, since it becomes a means by which one may purchase in game cash equivalents)
-Causes devaluation of Z-Keys
-devaluation of Z-keys reduces rewards gained through PvP
-HENCE, this will lead to little/no progress to the original goals of creating interest in PvP

now i agree but the hole reason the xunlai tournament house was created was because of the pvp "armor and weapon skin upgrades" which are super over priced the best things they could do is make it so reward points dont give you zkeys and change the prices on the armors and skins so that there comparable to there pve counterparts and make it so thous are counted as unlocks.

yes, but you have to pay for that effort. $$.$$ per acct.

While I would agree that the current system could use some adjusting I would rather see a few alterations made than simply eliminating it altogether. I've been considering posting a thread on this topic for a while but wimped out... but here's a condensed version of the changes I would have proposed:

1) Eliminate the option of exchanging rewards points for zkeys, and instead limit them only to PvP unlocks for weapons and armor skins. This would force zkeys to be obtained by actually participating in PvP (zaishen farming aside), which I believe was the original intent anyway. It should also quell concerns about zkeys losing value as they would obviously be harder to obtain, but progressing in the track would still be possible.

Then, to keep rewards points relevant for the PvE crowd:

2) Tie the rewards points to an existing title track, possibly Lucky (since predictions are technically a game of chance at some level), though I would perhaps prefer Gamer as it lacks a consistent source for points at the moment (and you could maybe argue XTH is similar to a mini-game). There would probably have to be some scaling adjustment for converting rewards points to title points, but that shouldn't be too difficult to work out. All current progress in the Zaishen track would remain intact.

3) Create a consumable similar to the existing Star of Transference that would allow people to package and sell some denomination of rewards points. This would allow people who are not interested in PvP unlocks to have some potential monetary gain still, and would simultaneously help offset the cost of the unlocks by allowing points to be bought and sold.

Sorry but as I do AT's frequently I still want me reward point reward which can turn in to zkeys tyvm.

Alright, a fair argument. What if it would then be possible to somehow separate points earned from actually participating and those earned by simply predicting, allowing them to be used for different purposes?

But before conceding fully I'd ask a couple questions:

As a frequent PvP-er I would assume that you have a fairly steady stream (substantially more than someone who doesn't PvP in any form with regularity) of Balth faction coming in, correct? And if you've been at it for any substantial length of time it would be reasonable to assume you're running out of things to unlock with said Balth faction, no? You'd still be able to get more keys than most by virtue of that, would you not?

Here's a radical idea: Instead of getting reward points, you get 1k Balthazar faction for every reward point you would have earned under the previous system. That would make a heavy cut in the amount of keys that could be generated, because many people's Balthazar faction caps won't often be high enough to accommodate all of their winnings.

That would also increase the value of reward points, as not everyone would have easy access to them anymore. Along with all of that, I would say that reward skins should be made cheaper, like slashed in cost by 25%-50%.

Not the greatest of ideas, but it's all I can come up with to heavily reduce the mass amounts of Z-Keys being generated.

Remove XTH entirely imho, better than changing how reward points work. Sadly, it's one of Anet's ways of indirectly selling ingame wealth for $$$, so however broken it is they won't change it. And oh boy it is bah-roh-ken.
I know people who make millions of gold on it and they don't even play GW for long long months. I also know a very casual player, whom I've told about the XTH thing several months ago, and he made his first million gold on selling the free zkeys and he's still struggling to get level 18 on his first char :O

Zaishen title is unfortunately broken beyond any repair, lets better forget about it.

And the only change the RPs reward items need is making them customized to account (pvp chars only obv).

I love the XTH, but I also hate it, when 5 keys were 5k easy sell it was perfect.


but now not many people are buying, and they are they wont pay much more than 4k each

but this is a dying game,and I have no idea I can think of to change the XTH, besides totally getting rid of it.

and knowing the typical GW community if the XTH would be changed, people would QQ and want it changed back, like everything else.

I don't really care for nerfs/updates in GW, but I tell you anet, GW2 better be a fkn good game!

I would agree IF you didnt have to purchase more GW accounts with REAL money. As things stand, if you are prepared to lay down the green for the extra accounts, I dont see why anyone would have a problem, except those with only one account, unwilling to get more, and who dont want others to have more money themselves >.>

The economy and the game died a long long time ago. What's the difference?

I, for one, enjoy my free 150k a month for doing absolutely nothing. The truth is, zkeys were put into the game to give the more experienced/active pvpers something to use faction on once they had UAX. They're fulfilling that purpose. Anyone who pvped strictly for zkeys was probably bad at pve (you can make loads more money actually doing pve).

I preferred when there was no zaishen title, back when zkeys were worthless. Actually gave me some incentive to open the chest. Now, pssht, just sell em to pve title farmers and buy more pvp goodies.

Also, The bigger problem is the consistent tournament players. The idea of the implementation was to reward players who obs matches throughout the month, follow rosters, etc. Pretty much like betting with your friends on who will win the superbowl, based on the pre-season's games. Considering that rawr wins consistently, and the other 4 guilds that always show up on top 8; you can easily make 20zkeys+, even if you dont follow the pvp world. Granted, i'm not whining about rawr or any of the guilds. They do deserve their wins.

Let's not forget that every aspect of PvP has a title directly linked to it. Zkeys are not the only incentive to PvP. If we lose a few RA zkey farmers, I don't think i'll lose sleep over it.

Lets not forget that the ORIGINAL intention of Z-keys and the title track was ENTIRELY as a GOLD SINK. A-net wants people to be able to purchase the keys. I was finally able to buy my first FoW armour set last month after nearly 4 years of playing, so for me this is so /NOTSIGNED

And this thread is just smacks of a a typical PvP'r trying to get PvE'rs away from "their" 'l33t' title, as if it's exclusively for the PvP crowd and only the PvP crowd, and everyone else should go away.

Please get it into your heads, PvP'rs are no better, or worse than PvE'rs.

You need to remember, one of the reasons Guildwars was popular was because it was purely a game that did not require excessive additional purchases of in-game-items in order for one to play the game to full potential.
I think encouraging the purchase of additional accounts for the gold bonus goes against the founding principles of the game, the ones that made it popular in the first place.
I agree more income for Anet is a good thing, but i just don't think this is the best way of doing it, since it disrupts in game economy.

Zkeys are not a gold sink, since gold isn't taken out of circulation....Also my main concern is that the Xhouse isn't fulfilling it's purpose.

/unsigned

and the XTH doesn't even work for me!

Quit whining

i loled they said when they added this title and emote that the hole reason they did it was to please the pvers who wanted a title with emote and add a new title for pvpers where were uax also no one is saying remove zkeys completely could would still be able to buy them from pvpers. also you clearly have no idea what a gold sink is because this isnt one of them. all zkeys do is Transfer money around they dont make new money. (with the exception of what ever you can sell to a merchant from the zchest) i have been playing for what 3 years now and i still haven't bought a fow set for one i think 98% of those armor skins are fugly and secondly there are other things i would rather spend money on.. not to say i don't have enough or didn't have enough money to get fow armor, i more then do, if i wanted i could get my full set of obi armor with chaos gloves all dyed black but i haven't because i dont want to my toons to look like everyone one else in this game. i also think its safe to say that most people who play this game do both play pve and pvp.

customize z-keys so that the person that earns them is the only person that can use them. stops trading and forces the titles to be representative of what a player has earned and not bought. also prevents people from predicting on 10 accounts and pooling all the keys onto their main.

XTH is a way for some people to get keys and use them on the chest to possibly get items they couldnt before. I regularly submit predicitons to to this and get my keys and I've used quite a few (rank 3) and I also sell them on when people want them - to people wanting to advance their title.

What is wrong with that?

Let the keys cost less it would then match most of the crap you get from the chest. Also the damn gold sellers would not be able to sell 1000 zkeys for $270 online.

Not totally sure but isnt their a big problem with guilds basically resigning to each other to get points and things.

Q.Q. I get my points each month and i get my keys. I have fun opening the chest sometimes and sometimes sell them. Yes you get junk out of them and yes they are going down in price but so what? I know what. I didn't goto a PvP match and earn them. is that the issue here?

Despite what you may or may not think about Z-keys being a gold sink, it IS the stated intention of A-net that that's what the z-keys would be.

I NEVER said what I thought about z-keys being a gold sink or not, I merely reported what A-net said at the time about them being a gold sink. However I will do so now.. To all intents and purposes they are both a gold sink and not a gold sink at the same time.

They are because people are willing to purchase them, (and don't forget new keys appear every month, and to the person who gets those keys they are 'new money'), and then blow them on the Z-chest leaving only minor golds and firewater/Creme's. End result some players no longer have as much gold as they did before and don't have much to show for it, other than progress on a virtual title track. The gold they obtain by selling the keys is often used to purchase other items, like Ecto's

On the other hand the gold that is used to buy the keys mainly comes from playing the game / farming / "power" selling. With the only 'new' gold being the monthly influx of new keys. So there is a bit of truth to 'it only moves money around'

So it's more like 50% sink/50% move (or some other random combination of numbers that add up to 100)

[snipped rest as it's off-topic to this thread]

They also are a gold sink....When you spend like 500K on ZKeys and then go open the chest, you get back crap for worth...50K max? Only when you're very lucky you sometimes get something that's worth tons, very rarely...So it is a big gold sink imo. And yes something should be changed with the XTH, nothing is wrong with it, but the only thing that's wrong with it is that alot of people buy several accounts (up to 50) just for the monthly ZKeys to sell them, and earn tons of money. But otherwise it's a very good system imo.

Please get this right,, they are not and never will be a gold sink in the current form.

Gold Sinks take gold out of the game ( ie, down the sink drain).

Z Keys cannot be bought from merchants for gold, therefore NO money is taken out of the game.

all that happens is gold is transfered from one player to another, the gold is still in circulation and is not removed from the game.

In fact, because the Z Keys are produced by no gold cost (from preds and or balt), then they are actually introducing gold into the system (by golds weapons to be merchanted etc), so if anything, they act opposite to a gold sink.

The amount of gold they introduce into the game is really minimal, though. Sure, the z-chest drops golds and stuff, but unless you get very lucky, you're not going to get much from selling/merching the drops from it. Last month the only reason I made any money from the z-chest was because it dropped me an elite Rit tome. The vast majority of what you're going to get from there is scrap.

Me, I'm using z-keys to fund buying new armor...

They're not a gold sink, o.m.g., they would be if there was an NPC selling them for gold, not for faction or RPs.
Otherwise a player can spend 500k on ZKeys bought from another player, burn them getting maybe 10k back from merching crap, 40k more from players from selling other drops. But then the player who just sold the ZKeys to the first one and earned 500k can realize there's nothing worth spending money on in this game, so he decides to go for the Z-Chest himself. So he buys ZKeys for that same 500k and burns them to get crap drops and some title points.
The same 500k just got 'sinked' twice, right?
No, the money stays in circulation, not even 1 gold piece is lost in the process of hundreds of Z-Chest openings, it's rather opposite - Z-Chest produces some new gold as gold item drops or Lockpicks have inherent gold value and can be merched to generate new gold.

Yes, this is exactly the issue - huge tons of RPs being given away for FREE to masses of players who never PvP greatly reduce the rewards originally meant for players who do PvP.

Too late for that, the title is already broken, it's just a PvE buyable title and no nerf can save it.
Customizing Zkeys would suck alot for PvP players who want to sell them instead of opening themselves, Zkeys are a way for PvP players to earn pure gold not based on risk.

And I got a much better idea on the way the title should have originally worked:
Zaishen Title points should ONLY be earned when YOU SPEND your Faction or Reward Points on ZKeys and PvP Reward weapons/armors and even all the Priest of Balthazar unlocks.
And Xunlai House in it's current form shouldn't exist at all.

Get over yourselves already, it was NEVER meant to be an exclusively PvP title in any way shape or form. A-net DELIBERATELY introduced it as a title that could be brought.

QQ some moar pls.

Meh, pvp players can farm like regular people. If you want easy money for pvp players, then don't complain about the entire system.

bah, predictions are my only supply of money and thats how it should stay - i dont have to farm which is most boring thing in GW, and i dont have to stay in Kamadan all day
so not signed...

add a ziashen trader npc that buys/sells zkeys like ectos, that will also help determine value and make it more of a gold sink.

So whats the point of the thread? Make zkeys worth more gold stop deflation for easy money? Make zkeys customized to make it actually a title that is harder to earn. Stop the predictions to make it earned by only playing the game?

I had a thread awhile back, why buy gold from online sellers when you can buy multiple accounts and get more storage, more character slots, keep getting monthly amounts of zkeys without purchasing anything more. You can buy a brand new guild wars game for 9.99 as it is. Plus Anet making more money if people buy multiple accounts. Why would they want it to stop?

As explained, z-keys are not gold sinks. Gold sinks are things that take stuff out of the economy, like purchasing armor, skills, or id/salvage kits. Your gold is "destroyed" and therefore causes a small amount of inflation by there being less gold in the system as a whole, to counter the amount of deflation caused by monster drops.

Anyway, I'd like for the guy claiming that "a.net said the z-chest was a gold sink" to point out WHERE they said that, because that a) isn't true b) I have never heard of any such statement.


Anyway, I do think it would be a good idea to remove the xunlai rewards. I mean, who are these people buying dozens of keys at 5k a pop? I fear that a large percentage of the actual gold being circulated in the great temple of bathazar is from gold sellers. It just encourages too many bad things. Heck, most of the people who make predictions still don't even understand WHAT they are predicting or how the tournament works or why they should care.

It has not caused any increased interest in PvP. If anything, its caused a decrease in activity by people running smurfs. No one cares about their ladder ranking anymore because the only thing that matters is doing well in the monthly AT.

ok when i spend 1500 euro get 100 accounts hmm i get everything right in XTH thats about 100x250/5zkeys=1000zkeys
1 zkey = 5k
1000 zkeys = 5 milion
5 milion = ~200 euro (For bad people who break the rules of conduct)
In 8 months you get your money back that you invested

I got this Idea : Combine the XTH to your IP Adress so you can have only 1 XTH account and still that many guildwars account

it solves all problems in my opinion