Not PVE areas, but The Central transfer chamber challenge missions and alike. I'm not complaining I just never understood the logic of GW for having areas a group can't finish but 2 people can?
I have tried to understand the logic and I just get a headache. Were these areas added to appease people that can go with a friend and complete them. Was it just a need that was filled? Or did the programmers really under estimate the players resourcefulness? Seems to me if they can complete them with such small groups GW will just make it harder and harder until no one can finish them.
*tilts head to the side like a German Shepard* O.o
Please help me understand and lets not let this become a rant about nerfing builds, skills etc..
Please explain: Why group areas can be completed by two people?
SS Necro
Black Metal
Because there's a difference between PvE questing and solo/duo farming
pumpkin pie
freedom of choice?
MisterB
Challenge missions are PvE areas. If you don't believe me, try to take a PvP-only character there, and report back how it goes. A group is defined as two or more entities forming a unit, in this case a party. Where is the problem?
AKB48
Welcome to MMO.
All I can say.
All I can say.
Amnel Ithtirsol
I really do understand why the OP is confused. When I started out I also couldn't quite grasp the idea of a solo character or a smite team being able to complete areas that took me and my guild sometimes hours to do. And they do it in less than halve the time!
Certain skill sets are just unbalanced and overpowered. It beats the game. Simple as that. But, it also opens the door for people to make some money by running players (lazy and/or unskilled) through specific areas of the game (dungeons) and for others to farm, say, destroyer cores in Glints, as per your example.
It is really up to the individual to decide on how they want to play the game.
Personally I try have a balance between this and grouping.
Certain skill sets are just unbalanced and overpowered. It beats the game. Simple as that. But, it also opens the door for people to make some money by running players (lazy and/or unskilled) through specific areas of the game (dungeons) and for others to farm, say, destroyer cores in Glints, as per your example.
It is really up to the individual to decide on how they want to play the game.
Personally I try have a balance between this and grouping.
Icy The Mage
If your'e looking for a really hard area that takes a full party to beat, try DoA in hard mode. Sure you can 600/smite/famine it, but good luck having the sanity for spending 4+ hours there :P
Songbringer
It is because the duo and solo people are using skills to counter that of what they are facing. Teams aren't. They are running into(lets use central transfer for example) the destroyer blazing with searing flames and other dumb crap. They randomly go in with people they don't know and don't take time to form proper teams and tacticly decide what is good and bad to use there.
Skyy High
Many solo builds also get more powerful the more enemies that are directly attacking you, which make them more effective solo than in a group.
Vazze
duo teams are better than human pugs because:
1) heroes focus fire on your target, pugs pick targets randomly
2) team build, easier to set up a hero than your teammates who can't or don't want to run/use the required builds/skills.
3) you control heroes (agro/attack/retreat), you can't control your pug.
1) heroes focus fire on your target, pugs pick targets randomly
2) team build, easier to set up a hero than your teammates who can't or don't want to run/use the required builds/skills.
3) you control heroes (agro/attack/retreat), you can't control your pug.
TheodenKing
OK, I think you need to understand the evolution involved:
The areas are not designed for farmers. For example, you mention Central Transfer Chamber challenge (I think what you meant was "A Time for Heroes"). Well, ATfH was designed for a group of 8. It is doable for a team of 8. And for the first month or two that is what everyone did.
Then, someone figured out how to use [Illusion of Pain] to 600 the Great Destroyer. Thus, a run was developed that completed the mission easily and efficiently in NM and HM.
So, no, they didn't design that mission for the farmer. But there are some smart freakin people that play the game, and they figure out ways to do things without a full party supporting them. But trust me when I say... there is not a single area of the game where a party is allowed that can only be completed by a runner.
So, you can load up a party and do it the way they designed it. Or you can pay a monk 1-2k to run it for you much faster. Your choice.
The areas are not designed for farmers. For example, you mention Central Transfer Chamber challenge (I think what you meant was "A Time for Heroes"). Well, ATfH was designed for a group of 8. It is doable for a team of 8. And for the first month or two that is what everyone did.
Then, someone figured out how to use [Illusion of Pain] to 600 the Great Destroyer. Thus, a run was developed that completed the mission easily and efficiently in NM and HM.
So, no, they didn't design that mission for the farmer. But there are some smart freakin people that play the game, and they figure out ways to do things without a full party supporting them. But trust me when I say... there is not a single area of the game where a party is allowed that can only be completed by a runner.
So, you can load up a party and do it the way they designed it. Or you can pay a monk 1-2k to run it for you much faster. Your choice.
SS Necro
Thanks for all the replies, I guess they saw a market/demand for it.
As for aTfH, that mission is a snap, have a warrior tank and use poisons, disease, - health degen and it's no big deal. Most hard hitting bosses cower at the use of "wail of doom" it makes them hit like big sissy's. I use my heroes as skill carriers. Spam skills and you're done.
As for aTfH, that mission is a snap, have a warrior tank and use poisons, disease, - health degen and it's no big deal. Most hard hitting bosses cower at the use of "wail of doom" it makes them hit like big sissy's. I use my heroes as skill carriers. Spam skills and you're done.
BenjZee
2 is a group
also who said we have to have maximum party?
also who said we have to have maximum party?
Red Sonya
GW has been like this since the 55 monk which they have never nerfed enough to end its reign among others like the solo sin or bushhog rangers. They should make these elite areas so tough there's no way anyone could do them or complete them without a full party of live players. And that should be on normal mode and hard mode should only be for the ultimate elite with brains.
byteme!
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Originally Posted by SmithyBen
2 is a group
also who said we have to have maximum party? |
@OP It's called human ingenuity. Case in point. Some of the EoTN dungeons were initially designed in a way which forced most people into forming full teams (pugs/heroes/hench whatever). See "storm cloud incubus". However over time (a few months after release) the community figured how to get around this. If you want to blame anyone then blame the community, the farmers, wiki, skill templates etc... but it's not Anets fault WE broke their game. I have recently come up with a fail safe way to tackle the incubus aside from the method covered by Sacratus Ignis in the dungeon farming thread. I will remain hush about it for the time being however because I'm a firm believer in people earning the right to farm as opposed to just being handed everything on a silver platter. Damn pvxwiki to hell!!!
PS. This same rule applies to CTC as well in case someone tries to point that out to me.
byteme!
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Originally Posted by Nerfed Necro
Well I was doing Ferndale in HM, all other enemies dead, Tarlok was the last , he would wipe us over and over. Ok, it happens. But we had him to 1% or less health he wipes us, we go to 60% dp, and are kicked back to the outpost.
This is the single biggest kick in the ..... I have ever experienced in the game. Makes no sense, and makes for rage quitting. I'm beyond rational discourse right now and can only see red. There is no reason for it, none, period. |
Ate of DK
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nerfed Necro
Not PVE areas, but The Central transfer chamber challenge missions and alike. I'm not complaining I just never understood the logic of GW for having areas a group can't finish but 2 people can?
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Hero > Average Joe.
SS Necro
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Originally Posted by byteme!
Then you or whoever you were with aren't good enough for HM. Makes perfect sense to me. Just because 1 person has troubles with an area doesn't mean it's a cause for concern. Lots of people find it too easy on the contrary. The AI of monsters make them predictable and often dumb as a rock. Only difference between HM and NM is a bunch of numbers. Higher lvl, higher armor and higher dmg and occasionally a few extra skills, toss those out and you have the same stupid predictable monsters.
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I was ticked and have already removed my post. But to answer yours.. (your name here)
byteme!
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Originally Posted by Nerfed Necro
I was ticked and have already removed my post. But to answer yours.. (your name here)
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Glad you recognized it.
Rhamia Darigaz
abusing dumb AI > having more people
SS Necro
Went back with Double dragon and the +2 glyph, cast D/D twice then opened up on him.. With a base of +16 Fire magic, well you do the math 
And the point you glossed over was not his difficulty but why do we get booted at -60% DP. It's just plain silly.
And the point you glossed over was not his difficulty but why do we get booted at -60% DP. It's just plain silly.
Puebert
Sup runes are a nono.
Just 600/55/whatever those runners do.
Its possible because there are so many damn skills in the game that it is impossible for them to account for all the possible methods of taking advantage of the monster skill sets and spawns.
There's probably a solo farm for everything.
Just 600/55/whatever those runners do.
Its possible because there are so many damn skills in the game that it is impossible for them to account for all the possible methods of taking advantage of the monster skill sets and spawns.
There's probably a solo farm for everything.
SS Necro
A simple fix (although coding it would not be fun) would be to have certain skills that are ummm "abused" reduce in stats with smaller groups. In other words, best stats for said skill would be in a full group. Call it a "Fellowship" bonus.
But really my hope for gW2 is all loot is bind on acquire (you loot it, you own it, cannot be traded or sold to another player). Lotro does this and it cut power farming down tremendously. Or have faction items drop and you trade them into an npc for a weapon or armor etc.. LOTRO players will recall the Rift, etc.. they all take barter items now to gain each piece of armor.
But really my hope for gW2 is all loot is bind on acquire (you loot it, you own it, cannot be traded or sold to another player). Lotro does this and it cut power farming down tremendously. Or have faction items drop and you trade them into an npc for a weapon or armor etc.. LOTRO players will recall the Rift, etc.. they all take barter items now to gain each piece of armor.
Tarkin
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nerfed Necro
I'm not complaining I just never understood the logic of GW for having areas a group can't finish but 2 people can?
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If you dont understant... any place someone can solo or a duo can solo, a good team can destroy this area...
You is a very bad player, or have very bad partners...
Sorry my weak english...
SS Necro
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tarkin
Let me try to explain... In the first days of FOW... 8 enter in fow and sometimes we cant pass for the first groups... but sometimes... we let the noobs dead... sometimes the noobs leave, and sometimes only 4 good players, rest in party, if lucky a monk, dont mather if bonder or healer, just a good monk, a tank, nothing in special in the tank, just a dont a master agrooing tank, with tank skills... and a nuker or two, or a ss + a nuker... and we can finish the first parts of FOW...
If you dont understant... any place someone can solo or a duo can solo, a good team can destroy this area... You is a very bad player, or have very bad partners... Sorry my weak english... |
immortius
Eh, I'ld say:
1. 100,000+ players will out-think 100 devs any day. The huge number of skills in the game don't help. It is a lot to think about when designing an area.
2. Nerfing the skills and/or strats used by the 2 player parties, or making those areas harder would hurt people playing "normally".
3. Guild Wars missions and areas are often themed, with only a few types of enemies - for plot reasons. This reduces the number of concerns a party has to deal with.
1. 100,000+ players will out-think 100 devs any day. The huge number of skills in the game don't help. It is a lot to think about when designing an area.
2. Nerfing the skills and/or strats used by the 2 player parties, or making those areas harder would hurt people playing "normally".
3. Guild Wars missions and areas are often themed, with only a few types of enemies - for plot reasons. This reduces the number of concerns a party has to deal with.
byteme!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nerfed Necro
And the point you glossed over was not his difficulty but why do we get booted at -60% DP. It's just plain silly.
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The beauty of this format is in HM you no longer have your crutch, unlimited ressing at the nearest shrine. It's HM for a reason. In normal mode you can do this all you want with little to no consequence. I think it's great the way it is. It forces players to learn to play and get better or fail trying.
In all honesty if you want help I can lend a hand in-game. I can help you VQ Ferndale or whatever you are doing. I can assure you I won't accumulate -60dp.
SS Necro
I have seen players get -60 in a blink of an eye. The game has some serious flaws, never judge my soup until you have tried it.
A rich man once visited a temple and wanted to learn wisdom. Every time the teacher spoke the man interrupted and expressed how he knew what he meant, and how he had experienced the same etc.. Finally the teacher sat silent and started pouring tea for the rich man. He poured until the rich mans cup overflowed. The man said "stop, what's wrong with you?" The Teacher replied "How can you taste my tea, when your cup is full? You must first empty it before you can add anymore to it".
Paraphrased from A Book by Jun Fan
Ask any programmer, you can only patch code for so long until it blows up, or is totally rewritten. As for my skills, this was the last boss, creature, npc, and enemy in all of Ferndale. Obviously I got that far somehow. Fighting and winning at full health etc, is safe, and no where near realistic. Dragging yourself back up and hitting it again and again is. This is a concept GW has yet to grasp. I've played games where I was down and almost out and we rallied and won. That is a victory. Having a failsafe build, is boring, like getting a new game and the cheats and saying "Oh yeah I beat it all easy.." In SWG we used to take off all armor, and just get our weapons and clean out bases. No magic shields, just the willingness and cunning needed to survive.
As for this thread, it's lost at this point. Goodbye, Farewell, Amen..
A rich man once visited a temple and wanted to learn wisdom. Every time the teacher spoke the man interrupted and expressed how he knew what he meant, and how he had experienced the same etc.. Finally the teacher sat silent and started pouring tea for the rich man. He poured until the rich mans cup overflowed. The man said "stop, what's wrong with you?" The Teacher replied "How can you taste my tea, when your cup is full? You must first empty it before you can add anymore to it".
Paraphrased from A Book by Jun Fan
Ask any programmer, you can only patch code for so long until it blows up, or is totally rewritten. As for my skills, this was the last boss, creature, npc, and enemy in all of Ferndale. Obviously I got that far somehow. Fighting and winning at full health etc, is safe, and no where near realistic. Dragging yourself back up and hitting it again and again is. This is a concept GW has yet to grasp. I've played games where I was down and almost out and we rallied and won. That is a victory. Having a failsafe build, is boring, like getting a new game and the cheats and saying "Oh yeah I beat it all easy.." In SWG we used to take off all armor, and just get our weapons and clean out bases. No magic shields, just the willingness and cunning needed to survive.
As for this thread, it's lost at this point. Goodbye, Farewell, Amen..
Striken7
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Originally Posted by Nerfed Necro
Fighting and winning at full health etc, is safe, and no where near realistic. Dragging yourself back up and hitting it again and again is. This is a concept GW has yet to grasp. I've played games where I was down and almost out and we rallied and won. That is a victory. Having a failsafe build, is boring, like getting a new game and the cheats and saying "Oh yeah I beat it all easy.."
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You need to be less jealous IMO. Get better and stop whining about other people being good.
Zinger314
Bad game design is bad.
byteme!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nerfed Necro
I've played games where...
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nerfed Necro
Having a failsafe build, is boring, like getting a new game and the cheats and saying "Oh yeah I beat it all easy.."
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Regardless of all of this, the current format isn't going to change. It's been like this since inception. You're not the first person to bring up arguments about why/how HM is hard or whatever else you're trying to conjure up. The challenge is there and it needs to stay for the better of the game. In other words, this thread will get buried in a few days and that will be the end of it. This subject is futile and you won't get anywhere with it no matter how hard you try.
/kthxbye
SS Necro
I asked why they created group areas 2 people can finish. Pretty straight forward. I had hoped GW would chime in, but that was rather naive of me.
MirkoTeran
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nerfed Necro
I asked why they created group areas 2 people can finish.
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But the problems you are having have nothing to do with this.
SS Necro
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Originally Posted by MirkoTeran
Because they couldn't code AI good enough to prevent it. Feel free to come up with code to better one.
But the problems you are having have nothing to do with this. |
Coding it is possible, just not probable. It might be beyond the current scope or platform.
That said I owe my friend 5.00. He bet me this thread would go no where and I'd be as lost as I was for a clear answer as to why before I posted.
Neo Nugget
Closed at OP's request.