Guild Wars Guru

GW-Guru - for the users - or the moderators - bumping

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eskerod
Lion's Arch Merchant
• #1
I saw yesterday a guy beeing banned for 2 min early bumping - and its ok - cause its the rules in Guru (moderator smiley) (user smiley)

BUT - are that rule a benefit for the users - or just a rule that keep the mods occupied ??

1 - We all agree that bumping are nessesary to keep the active users get benefit for their activity. And we also agree that bumping too often are not a good idea.

2 - Bumping with exactly 24 hour limit get too many users "banned" - and are very annoying - for both the users - and also the mods (at least i hope they dont like banning people).

3. Argument - just DONT bump before the 24 hours...

4. Having a life - people (like me) want to bump our threads once a day (without having to watch our clock om the second) - and if we have a life - we will not be able to bump on exactly 24 hours - which means that we sometimes have to stay up to be able to bump. Some days its not possible to bump before next morning (or in the evening - depends on when we think its the best time for bumping).
And sometimes the clock does not match - so people try their best to maintain the 24 hours - but fail because of the clock.

5. Solution - make bumping possible with eg. 22 hours limit.

6. Will it change anything ? - Yes - less people will be banned - but there will not be more bumps (slightly more maybe) - because people will bump their treas at the same time as always (when they think its the best time to bump) - and its now possible to go to sleap - instead of waiting 1 hour to be able to bump the thread.

7. It will make everyone happy - people dont get banned as often as now - and moderators will be able to do other importent things - which will be more fun and gives more benefit to Guru - than banning people do.


regards
/eskerod
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Inde
Site Contributor
• #2
eskerod,

We get this question a lot so I thought I would respond personally why we have this rule. First off, it is extremely unfair to those users who do abide by the rules for someone to come in and bump an hour early, 2 minutes early, or any amount of time early. If the majority of users can wait... then they can wait.

We have these rules in place to ensure that this forum is fair to all the users. Your items that you sell only stay on the front page of that forum for an hour or 2 at most. To have even one person violating the rule pushes a user who is following the rules off the front page.

As for why not 22 hours? Because the same argument you listed could be made for 22 hours. Why not 21 hours? Why not 20 hours? 24 hours is a pretty standard treatment and fairly easy for a user to look and know when it is up. Making it any more complicated would only mean more people violating those rules.

I know it's harsh but we have tried other methods in the past, they are always... always abused. Having a zero tolerance policy is the best way for us to have equal treatment for all those trying to buy and sell items.
Earth
Earth
Always Outnumbered
• #3
2 minutes seems a bit... over the top, but whatever. I'm not a ventari's mod.
Wolf2581
Wolf2581
Frost Gate Guardian
• #4
I think people would screw it up even more if the restriction were something other than 24 hours. If after a few bumps it might become an inconvenience to make more (sleeping, working, etc.), then I would recommend either simply waiting to bump or making sure the original post is made early enough to allow for bumping according to one's schedule. There is nothing stating that bumps must be made as close to the 24-hour mark as possible.

As for the bans, whether it is two minutes early or two hours early, it is still a breach of the rules. If making sure one's timezone is set correctly in the User CP is too much trouble, then perhaps using a message board in the first place is a bad idea.

On the other hand, with sufficient expertise in PHP, an administrator could modify the forum code to disallow thread authors' replies before 24 hours have passed. That would sharply reduce the number of bans and lighten the load on the moderators.
Yang Whirlwind
Yang Whirlwind
~ Retired ~
• #5
Quote: Originally Posted by eskerod View Post I saw yesterday a guy beeing banned for 2 min early bumping - and its ok - cause its the rules in Guru (moderator smiley) (user smiley) Show me proof please! I am responsible of the Ventari's section along with Messy and Ryker and we usually never ban for that small deviations.

Quote: Originally Posted by eskerod View Post BUT - are that rule a benefit for the users - or just a rule that keep the mods occupied ?? To benefit the majority of users of course!

Quote:
Originally Posted by eskerod View Post
Having a life - people (like me) want to bump our threads once a day (without having to watch our clock om the second) - and if we have a life - we will not be able to bump on exactly 24 hours - which means that we sometimes have to stay up to be able to bump. Some days its not possible to bump before next morning (or in the evening - depends on when we think its the best time for bumping).
And sometimes the clock does not match - so people try their best to maintain the 24 hours - but fail because of the clock. I have run countless threads in Buy, Sell and High-end both before and after becoming a moderator, so I know hitting the 24 hour mark can be difficult. No one is going to ban you for a few minutes, but if you are prevented from bumping at the 24 hour mark it will keep until the morning, afternoon or even evening as your schedule allows, it is not the end of the world.

The clock argument I simply do not understand:
Quick Links -> Edit Options -> Date & Time Options
Now your time zone is always adjusted to your local time zone when you log in to bump your thread. Claiming issues with the clock made you bump early is no excuse!

In theory, we could change the bumping rule,- it would not really matter as long the rule applied to everyone and was enforced by the moderators.

But, all the problems would remain unchanged:
"I only bumped my thread 1 hour early and you banned me". This complaint is not in any way reliant on the bump mark being 10, 12, 22 or 24 hours.
Some people learn to respect the rules (even if they do not agree with them), some people will try to bent the rules to suit their purposes and some people will break the rules no matter what they are.

24 hours is by far the easiest rule for everyone to remember as it should correspond to our other daily schedules.
Arkantos
Arkantos
The Greatest
• #6
Quote: 5. Solution - make bumping possible with eg. 22 hours limit.

6. Will it change anything ? - Yes - less people will be banned - but there will not be more bumps (slightly more maybe) - because people will bump their treas at the same time as always (when they think its the best time to bump) - and its now possible to go to sleap - instead of waiting 1 hour to be able to bump the thread.

7. It will make everyone happy - people dont get banned as often as now - and moderators will be able to do other importent things - which will be more fun and gives more benefit to Guru - than banning people do. And then 22 hours will be too unfair and people will want a 20 hour limit. And then 18.

If people can't follow the current 24 hour rule (which is unbelievably easy to follow and always possible to follow), they won't be able to follow a 22 hour rule. If you have a life and you want sleep/do whatever else, then bumping a thread on a gaming forum is going to be the last thing on your mind.

There's nothing wrong with the current rule, the problem lies within the impatient users who cannot wait 24 hours to bump.

Ventari moderators are supposed to moderate ventari. Closing threads and banning users for an early bump is just as important for closing a thread and banning a user for any other reason.
Darcy
Darcy
Never Too Old
• #7
Quote: Originally Posted by eskerod View Post
And sometimes the clock does not match - so people try their best to maintain the 24 hours - but fail because of the clock.
All you need to do is look at the time of your last bump, right there on post. Then look at the time at the bottom of your page. If that one is earlier, don't bump again.

Not difficult at all. The problem usually is not that people can't follow the rules due to time constraints, but that they either don't care about the rules, or didn't bother to read them.
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eskerod
Lion's Arch Merchant
• #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Yang Whirlwind View Post
Show me proof please! I am responsible of the Ventari's section along with Messy and Ryker and we usually never ban for that small deviations. Proof - sort of - http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10363043
But the guy did make an "deleted bump" the day befor the banning - so it might be because of that, he got banned for the 2 min early bump - but it dont change that the 2 min got him banned..

And all i hear as answer - we make the rules - obey them - or get banned - or dont use our site.

But unfortuanlly we dont have other sites to go to - and thats why i thought that it could be a nice thing - to be more userfriendly here on guru.

And why not give it a chance, and try change the 24 hours to eg. 22 hours - and see what will happen ??
Most people are playing at the same time every day - and will bump when they are online. They will not demand 18, 16 hours bumping - because they will not get up in the middle of the night, or go home from work or school - just to be able to bump their thread.


And the clock - ye - it might be because i have looked on my computer clock sometiomes - and it did not match the time in the thread... My mistake...

But actually the far most easy rule are to make it possible to allow one bump every day (dato based)
- then it will be much more userfriendly
- because everyone can remember if they have bumped their thread today - or yesterday
- it will make the same amounts of bumps
- and less banning i guess...
Unlucky Slayer
Unlucky Slayer
RAGE INCARNATE
• #9
As long as you are over 24 hours you wont be touched. You dont have to be exactly on the dot.
Savio
Savio
Teenager with attitude
• #10
Quote: Originally Posted by eskerod View Post Proof - sort of - http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10363043
But the guy did make an "deleted bump" the day befor the banning - so it might be because of that, he got banned for the 2 min early bump - but it dont change that the 2 min got him banned.. He was banned for the deleted bump. Some people think they can get around the 24-hour rule by bumping often and then deleting their bumps so it looks like they've only bumped once. The problem is... we mods can see deleted posts.

If you're wondering why he wasn't banned right away, sell mods go through thousands of posts a day. A few slip through.

Quote:
And why not give it a chance, and try change the 24 hours to eg. 22 hours - and see what will happen ?? At one point we had more relaxed rules. Because of that, sell forums were a mess.
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eskerod
Lion's Arch Merchant
• #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Savio View Post
At one point we had more relaxed rules. Because of that, sell forums were a mess. Ok - i did not know that - but of course - if people could bump as they wanted - it would be a mess.

But the two suggestions i have, will not give more mess in the sell/buy section - because it will not be possible to make more bumps (the 22 hours rule - will - if people are using exact 22 hours - but they wont).

And the one suggestion with the daily bumt (dato based) - thats a really simpel rule - and are not to be misunderstod by anyone i guess.

- if they think dayli = 24 hours - then its ok
- and if people think its once a day = thats ok too.

It will make everyone more relaxed - we dont have to look at the clock - nor do we have to skip the dayli bump

The only thing we have to keep in mind -> did i bump my thread earlier today ?

If there are argument against that - ill be happy to see them
Yang Whirlwind
Yang Whirlwind
~ Retired ~
• #12
Quote: Originally Posted by eskerod View Post Proof - sort of - http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10363043
But the guy did make an "deleted bump" the day befor the banning - so it might be because of that, he got banned for the 2 min early bump The deleted bump was what got him banned,- not the 2 min!
Quote: Originally Posted by eskerod View Post - but it dont change that the 2 min got him banned.. Yes it does! A violation does not "expire" with the next bump.

Quote: Originally Posted by eskerod View Post And all i hear as answer - we make the rules - obey them - or get banned - or dont use our site.

But unfortuanlly we dont have other sites to go to - and thats why i thought that it could be a nice thing - to be more userfriendly here on guru.

And why not give it a chance, and try change the 24 hours to eg. 22 hours - and see what will happen ??
Most people are playing at the same time every day - and will bump when they are online. They will not demand 18, 16 hours bumping - because they will not get up in the middle of the night, or go home from work or school - just to be able to bump their thread. As we have explained on multiple occasions: we tried less strict rules and chaos ensued. We are not going back to that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eskerod View Post
But actually the far most easy rule are to make it possible to allow one bump every day (dato based)
- then it will be much more userfriendly
- because everyone can remember if they have bumped their thread today - or yesterday
- it will make the same amounts of bumps
- and less banning i guess... The moderators clocks are also adjusted to the local time zone in our respective countries. We would have to do countless calculations when moderating to determine if the daily bumps were placed correctly in relation to each users time zone. This is simply not doable and in no way "easy".
It would also allow people to submit their thread just before midnight and then bump it one hour later,- and trust me they would!
I have closed a lot of threads where the user thought the rules allowed a daily bump and had bumped within two hours of submitting it.

Stop The Storm
Stop The Storm
Keeping DoA Alive
• #13
does say in the rules that upto 10 minutes beforehand is fine, doubt someone would get banned for 2 minutes bump tbh

24 hours is fine too.

only thing that annoys me is the 12 character minimum post thing. it NEEDS to get removed from the entire ventari section, its not hard to do surely. i can understand it being needed elsewhere, but not in ventaris.
Arkantos
Arkantos
The Greatest
• #14
There is nothing wrong with 24 hours. It's perfectly reasonable and it's easy for both moderators and users to follow. There really is no reason to change it to anything else.
Yang Whirlwind
Yang Whirlwind
~ Retired ~
• #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Stop The Storm View Post
only thing that annoys me is the 12 character minimum post thing. it NEEDS to get removed from the entire ventari section, its not hard to do surely. i can understand it being needed elsewhere, but not in ventaris. To be honest it's usually not that much of a problem, simply add some ---- to fill it up.
I will however look into the possibility of having the restriction removed in Ventari's.
Stop The Storm
Stop The Storm
Keeping DoA Alive
• #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Arkantos View Post There is nothing wrong with 24 hours. It's perfectly reasonable and it's easy for both moderators and users to follow. There really is no reason to change it to anything else. i take it you never go into the ventari section then lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yang Whirlwind View Post
To be honest it's usually not that much of a problem, simply add some ---- to fill it up.
I will however look into the possibility of having the restriction removed in Ventari's. ok cool , would make it alot tidier if it was removed in there
Arkantos
Arkantos
The Greatest
• #17
Quote: i take it you never go into the ventari section then lol I do. The rule is reasonable and easy to follow. People just choose to not follow it. Every person who is capable of reading the date is fully capable of following the rule.
Yang Whirlwind
Yang Whirlwind
~ Retired ~
• #19
Stop The Storm:
We have spend a great deal of time in the above posts explaining why the 24 hour rule is the best interval possible.
That it should be the easiest to remember and the most logical to understand.
Exactly what are you arguing here?
Stop The Storm
Stop The Storm
Keeping DoA Alive
• #20
hes going on about how the rule is simple to follow and that its not hard to follow the rules etc etc... ive not disputed that anywhere in this thread.

all that ive said is that its not needed in ventaris, which it isnt.

then he went off about stuff that had no rellevance to what id said.