So since there weren't as many leechers as we all thought (for me at least), I've been having a win/loss ratio of ~50% on kurz side, after playing through many, many matches (working on my kurzick title). So the question is: with the leechers temporarily gone, how balanced did you guys think FA is now with everyone participating? For me, I saw a lot less stupidity and a lot more competition. So do you still think one side still has an advantage over another? *cough* Siege Turtle *cough*
Discuss...
So how's the balance at FA this weekend?
Giga_Gaia
zelgadissan
I played ~6 games each night and had either an AotL or NR/Tranq/etc. griefer at least once a night (Kurzicks FTW obviously). Not counting those games, it was roughly 60/40 for the Kurzicks in my games. Matches were certainly more contested than I was used to.
TheodenKing
I did about 20 JQ matches on the lux side and lost probably 3/4 of them, though I noticed many times where we had a leacher or leaver. I didn't make it to FA, though it sounds like maybe I should have.
ZenRgy
Balance has nothing to do with it when everybody runs trash. Seeing the Luxons unable to out damage 1 WoH/Heal Breeze monk sums it up.
poasiods
I mostly won JQ on Luxon side. There didn't seem to be as many Kurzicks jesus beaming as Luxons.
FA was 50:50 for me, but I usually got smashed when pitted up against a team with any decent number of monks.
FA was 50:50 for me, but I usually got smashed when pitted up against a team with any decent number of monks.
.HunTer
Let me see...Kurzicks have 0 monks.
Luxons have 7 RoJ monks and 1 WoH monk to keep the turtle alive,5 of them are from the same guild.
I did 20 FA today:
Luxon: 17
Kurzick: 3
I'm kurzick
Luxons have 7 RoJ monks and 1 WoH monk to keep the turtle alive,5 of them are from the same guild.
I did 20 FA today:
Luxon: 17
Kurzick: 3
I'm kurzick
Nessar
I did tons of FA..I'd say it was 70:30 (Kurz being 70). Not many leechers/leavers/griefers/bots in my matches. Lots of good monks/rits, good team players & everyone knew what to do. When we lost it was because we had no monk or the team was made up of nubs...
Giga_Gaia
I know that for me, it was like in the old days: if you had any less than 2 monks on kurzick, chances are you would probably lose. I suppose that's probably how it is on luxon side also? Oh how I missed the challenge of FA back in the days...
Edit: I noticed a lot of the random teams ended up with either no monks or 4 monks at a time. Other than that it was relatively balanced. So please, please, please, Anet, no more buffing the damn turtles!
Edit: I noticed a lot of the random teams ended up with either no monks or 4 monks at a time. Other than that it was relatively balanced. So please, please, please, Anet, no more buffing the damn turtles!
wilebill
Congrats to ANet on keeping the leechers out this weekend!
I think the Fort is balanced. If you have two experienced teams, it usually comes down to the wire behind the Green Gate.
Problem from the Luxon side is that average teams lose focus at some point and are willing to settle for just knocking down the two inner doors and then retreating to the outback for miscellaneous folderol until the timer runs out.
I think the Fort is balanced. If you have two experienced teams, it usually comes down to the wire behind the Green Gate.
Problem from the Luxon side is that average teams lose focus at some point and are willing to settle for just knocking down the two inner doors and then retreating to the outback for miscellaneous folderol until the timer runs out.
Gun Pierson
The lack of leechers is indeed great. I also witnessed some good matches, less noobness in general. I'm Kurzick and only played FA. The win rate was about 65%, maybe a bit higher. A lot of the matches were on the edge.
All in all a decent fun weekend imo.
All in all a decent fun weekend imo.
MoriaOrc
I played about 15-20 FA matches as Kurz and only lost once. A good Luxon team with a few players that know they only have to kill Gunther (and not every Kurzick that moves) can make for a very interesting match, and there were more then a few of those in those matches. Problem for them was that a decent Kurzick team can hold the green gate and inner area fairly well even after it breaks because most of the time the Luxon's just come one at a time as they respawn. Basically, I think it's pretty balanced when the circumstances are right, but the Luxon's are hurt far more by a lack of organization then the Kurzick's are.
StormX
Good weekend, apart from the occasional griefer. Nice win ratio maybe 4:1. Many were close matches with green broken and only Gunther left. Many times I ran amber like mad and repaired the green gate at the last minute. The usual leechers *cough cough R.L.W.* were noticeably absent and the wait wasn't too bad either. This is what it should be like all the time.
mr monk rupsie
Team syncing with my alliance have helped a lot. Otherwise i wouldnt even join FA. Score : 20:2 (2 loses because we had a bad team-syncing)
I think it should be possible to team up a bit. You need very specific skills to kill of the kurzicks (monks, enchantment removal + nukeing + mesmer to annoy the other monks).
My thoughts about balance:
- Make the ressurect time longer so when beaten you wont be up in a few seconds especially the kurzicks have the advantage with this timer.
- In the FA outpost you can make small teams.
I think it should be possible to team up a bit. You need very specific skills to kill of the kurzicks (monks, enchantment removal + nukeing + mesmer to annoy the other monks).
My thoughts about balance:
- Make the ressurect time longer so when beaten you wont be up in a few seconds especially the kurzicks have the advantage with this timer.
- In the FA outpost you can make small teams.
upier
I still stand by my original view that it's insanely imbalanced.
And the only thing that is keeping it in check is this:
Although contrary to Zenny though, it's the Kurzick side that has the advantage.
The only reason why Luxons win is because the Kurzick suck.
Because when they stop sucking - it becomes impossible to win.
And the only thing that is keeping it in check is this:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ZenRgy
Balance has nothing to do with it when everybody runs trash.
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The only reason why Luxons win is because the Kurzick suck.
Because when they stop sucking - it becomes impossible to win.
360??
Quote:
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Originally Posted by upier
I still stand by my original view that it's insanely imbalanced.
And the only thing that is keeping it in check is this: Although contrary to Zenny though, it's the Kurzick side that has the advantage. The only reason why Luxons win is because the Kurzick suck. Because when they stop sucking - it becomes impossible to win. |
/rant: When Gunther dies, it takes about a second to register. Kill Gunther -> /cheer -> Timer reaches 100% -> Kurzicks win. GG T__T Happens rarely but is still annoying.
EPO Bot
Monks ftw. No game in wich they are not effective. Everyone wants em, everyone loves them. There is just nothing bad about monks. <3
(But RoJ needs to cause scatter, damit!)
(But RoJ needs to cause scatter, damit!)
Trinity Fire Angel
i find FA balanced. I made +450K lux faction on the weekend so i really be sure how many games i played,,,,but i played all saturday and all sunday and nothing must else from 7am until 1am each day.... i would say that in the end, it was about 50:50. some times were better than others.
i did play JQ a few times, but really..... that is soooo unbalanced towards the kurzicks that it is not worth running there at all.
i did play JQ a few times, but really..... that is soooo unbalanced towards the kurzicks that it is not worth running there at all.
makosi
I did Fort Aspenwood as a Luxon countless times and won around 70% of the games I played (EoE/Zealous Benedicton turtle-healing monk <3.)
I'm pleased that there were relatively few leechers because serial leechers were spread more thinly amongst multiple teams, which I didn't expect.
There's gonna be an issue with the Kurzick side as long as they have mutliple monks and ritualists spamming heals on NPCs. There were a lot of Air of Enchantment monks on a spamming frenzy keeping Kurzick Elementalists alive, although they do crack under the pressure eventually and are forced to retreat. They considerably delay the Luxons though. Then, once Luxons push in to Gunther, the monks continue their frenzied healing and protting with the aid of the Gatekeeper NPCs which means that some Luxon member has to bring Rend/Gaze and or Scourge Healing/Soul Bind to cope with it. But with all of those monks, hexes don't stick and enchantments are slapped back on in a moment. Edge of Extinction does an excellent job, too.
I never once had a game whereby an AotL MM or spirit spammer killed Gunther. :'(
I'm pleased that there were relatively few leechers because serial leechers were spread more thinly amongst multiple teams, which I didn't expect.
There's gonna be an issue with the Kurzick side as long as they have mutliple monks and ritualists spamming heals on NPCs. There were a lot of Air of Enchantment monks on a spamming frenzy keeping Kurzick Elementalists alive, although they do crack under the pressure eventually and are forced to retreat. They considerably delay the Luxons though. Then, once Luxons push in to Gunther, the monks continue their frenzied healing and protting with the aid of the Gatekeeper NPCs which means that some Luxon member has to bring Rend/Gaze and or Scourge Healing/Soul Bind to cope with it. But with all of those monks, hexes don't stick and enchantments are slapped back on in a moment. Edge of Extinction does an excellent job, too.
I never once had a game whereby an AotL MM or spirit spammer killed Gunther. :'(
Khazad Guard
I would say from the ~25 games I've played, it's been maybe 60% Kurzick wins (me playing Kurzick). I must say when the Luxons dont have 2-7 leechers like regular days it's actually quite a fun match. Only a few ragequitters (one Luxon was complaining about having a leecher on the team so left...guess he doesnt play FA much ><)
There's been a lot of close matches where the hard fighting is done within Gunther's chamber, and I have seen a lot more "tactical" game play rather than mere rushing. Havnt seen many "rubbish" builds as usual days though which is rather good.
I would say though that the Kurzick have the advantage still. A Kurzick side can just do nothing and win, whilst the Luxons actually need to be on the offensive. If the Kurzick have healers then life for the Luxons isn't fun (Run an AoE monk sometime). Had one match where the front of the green gate was a absolute massacre, had Luxon minions and Spirits everywhere but the Kurzick managed to hold on (given that we spawn so close to where all the fighting occurs).
There's been a lot of close matches where the hard fighting is done within Gunther's chamber, and I have seen a lot more "tactical" game play rather than mere rushing. Havnt seen many "rubbish" builds as usual days though which is rather good.
I would say though that the Kurzick have the advantage still. A Kurzick side can just do nothing and win, whilst the Luxons actually need to be on the offensive. If the Kurzick have healers then life for the Luxons isn't fun (Run an AoE monk sometime). Had one match where the front of the green gate was a absolute massacre, had Luxon minions and Spirits everywhere but the Kurzick managed to hold on (given that we spawn so close to where all the fighting occurs).
Gli
I made added 400k Kurzick to my title without ever running into a single leecher on my side. Worst thing that happened was a couple of leavers. Overall, I had a good time, better than I expected, which is why I ended up spending so much time there.
Balance is an afterthought as far as I'm concerned. It's all too random to me to give a damn. Maybe the Kurzicks have an inherent advantage, it still takes a few decent players to capitalize on it. Some decent players on the other side easily trump a lesser Kurzick team. It's all in the luck of the draw. And when decent players on different sides meet, games can turn out pretty exciting.
Balance is an afterthought as far as I'm concerned. It's all too random to me to give a damn. Maybe the Kurzicks have an inherent advantage, it still takes a few decent players to capitalize on it. Some decent players on the other side easily trump a lesser Kurzick team. It's all in the luck of the draw. And when decent players on different sides meet, games can turn out pretty exciting.
stretchs
I played several dozen matches, had at most 1/2 a dozen leechers, but all in all, was happy to see it alot less leecher friendly. As for balance, each team could win all depending in the "random" team they end up with
awry
50:50 in my experience. When kurzicks have 3 monks, gg, we luxons lose. One case i'll like to point out was when we had 7 ELEMENTALISTS on our team. We did not have any lack of dmg, in fact, we killed EVERY OTHER npc, before half the time ran out, and we had our turtles in their base, 3 MONKS AND 7 OF US ELES ALL IN THERE NUKING THE SHIT OUT OF GUNTHER AND HE WOULD NOT DIE. no use trying to go for the monks, because they would respawn back up and screw us over. They chased us out of their base and then held their position over us through attrition.
Painbringer
It was not too bad with the leeching or atleast it seemed at a minimum. Maybe because the leeches knew if they played they would earn more points then just being a leech. And by the way if you make a character to leech and hide in the turtle spawn zone then yes luxon shortbow is a good name to hide with. sneaky but reportable
Saborath Gilgalad
First off I was amazed at the lack of lechers over the three days. For me there were less than 5 for the entire weekend, so I was pleasantly surprised. I was playing on the Luxon side, (mainly monking) and our win ratio was 70-30 in favor of the Luxons so the faction hall was very nice. When we lost it was mainly due to the Kurzicks having 3 healers holding up Gunther, but 3000 faction was still nice. Only got the 2400 three times. All in all it was a nice double weekend.
byteme!
WAIT A MINUTE!
2-3 months ago we had a huge topic about how the reduction in time (-5 minutes) it takes for Kurzicks to win made FA "imbalanced". This entire thread contradicts all of that. The win/loss ratio is divided in general. That means for every person who is losing/failing there is an equal/opposite person experiencing the exact opposite. So WTF were we all QQ'ing about before????
Once again we have been shown over time that much of the theorycraft, whining, crying, and number crunching amounted to nothing. Again!
As the old saying goes, "Time will tell".
2-3 months ago we had a huge topic about how the reduction in time (-5 minutes) it takes for Kurzicks to win made FA "imbalanced". This entire thread contradicts all of that. The win/loss ratio is divided in general. That means for every person who is losing/failing there is an equal/opposite person experiencing the exact opposite. So WTF were we all QQ'ing about before????
Once again we have been shown over time that much of the theorycraft, whining, crying, and number crunching amounted to nothing. Again!
As the old saying goes, "Time will tell".
FoxBat
The ratio will probably restore itself in a week or two.
Still, I've found I do better now playing shutdown mesmer, either spamming [diversion] or [arcane languor]. [Visions of Regret] doesn't work, one time I spent 5 minutes in a battle with 3 monks dumb enough to ball up and all get VoRd at once, they just keep spamming heals on gunther till they are dead and got up in 5 seconds and did it again. You need actual shutdown on monks not just damage, better if it is shutdown that lasts through respawns.
Still, I've found I do better now playing shutdown mesmer, either spamming [diversion] or [arcane languor]. [Visions of Regret] doesn't work, one time I spent 5 minutes in a battle with 3 monks dumb enough to ball up and all get VoRd at once, they just keep spamming heals on gunther till they are dead and got up in 5 seconds and did it again. You need actual shutdown on monks not just damage, better if it is shutdown that lasts through respawns.
Giga_Gaia
Quote:
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Originally Posted by byteme!
WAIT A MINUTE!
2-3 months ago we had a huge topic about how the reduction in time (-5 minutes) it takes for Kurzicks to win made FA "imbalanced". This entire thread contradicts all of that. The win/loss ratio is divided in general. That means for every person who is losing/failing there is an equal/opposite person experiencing the exact opposite. So WTF were we all QQ'ing about before???? Once again we have been shown over time that much of the theorycraft, whining, crying, and number crunching amounted to nothing. Again! As the old saying goes, "Time will tell". |
upier
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Giga_Gaia
Exactly. That was the whole point of this thread. We don't need anymore buffs to the luxons, or anymore nerfs to the kurzicks. We just needed to see how the whole map would play out once you actually had some competition instead of having 5 leechers every game.
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Like I previously said - the only reason why it appears balanced is because you have shitty players on the Kurzick side.
Esprit
Jade Quarry was not bad at all on the Luxon side. I play a couple dozen matches and would get a leecher or two every 5 or 6 rounds. Won most of my matches too.
ZenRgy
Quote:
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Originally Posted by FoxBat
The ratio will probably restore itself in a week or two.
Still, I've found I do better now playing shutdown mesmer, either spamming [diversion] or [arcane languor]. [Visions of Regret] doesn't work, one time I spent 5 minutes in a battle with 3 monks dumb enough to ball up and all get VoRd at once, they just keep spamming heals on gunther till they are dead and got up in 5 seconds and did it again. You need actual shutdown on monks not just damage, better if it is shutdown that lasts through respawns. |
FoxBat
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ZenRgy
If you roll a dom mesmer bar without diversion you probably shouldn't be rolling a dom mesmer.
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Painbringer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by FoxBat
The ratio will probably restore itself in a week or two.
Still, I've found I do better now playing shutdown mesmer, either spamming [diversion] or [arcane languor]. [Visions of Regret] doesn't work, one time I spent 5 minutes in a battle with 3 monks dumb enough to ball up and all get VoRd at once, they just keep spamming heals on gunther till they are dead and got up in 5 seconds and did it again. You need actual shutdown on monks not just damage, better if it is shutdown that lasts through respawns. |
Exhaustion is the only thing that does not go away on rez
byteme!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by upier
That's just silly.
Like I previously said - the only reason why it appears balanced is because you have shitty players on the Kurzick side. |
The win/loss ratio is divided in general. That means for every person who is losing/failing there is an equal/opposite person experiencing the exact opposite.
So what ever you, your guild, and your friends experienced someone somewhere experiences the complete opposite. Even you can't be that naive to think this doesn't happen. Case in point - this thread.
/end
upier
Quote:
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Originally Posted by byteme!
"And like I previously said".....
The win/loss ratio is divided in general. That means for every person who is losing/failing there is an equal/opposite person experiencing the exact opposite. So what ever you, your guild, and your friends experienced someone somewhere experiences the complete opposite. Even you can't be that naive to think this doesn't happen. Case in point - this thread. /end |
As long as the only objective for the Kurzicks is to wait it out - if you have equally good teams, the Kurzick will ALWAYS win.
If the map was balanced - you'd have a draw in this situation.
Gli
Quote:
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Originally Posted by FoxBat
Then again alot of people don't even notice the hex and spam through it, so it's unusually effective in FA.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by upier
Have 8 monks/resto rits on the Kurzick side.
As long as the only objective for the Kurzicks is to wait it out - if you have equally good teams, the Kurzick will ALWAYS win. If the map was balanced - you'd have a draw in this situation. |
upier
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gli
If you assume a 'perfect' team on the Kurzick side, you need to do the same for the Luxon side. I can think of a team that would trounce your Kurzick team any day of the week.
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Oh and keep in mind that we are dealing with a random format.
Gli
Quote:
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Originally Posted by upier
Do tell!
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by upier
Oh and keep in mind that we are dealing with a random format.
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byteme!
@GLI - He's just theorycrafting a scenario that fits his argument. However the argument isn't fitting at the very least.
own age myname
I mostly JQ'ed this weekend for the Luxons (Mo/P RoJ runner really helps, I basically pulled the team through wins most of the time :/). I played about ~20 FA games with my Assasin Promise Nuker and won about 65:45. It was actually fun and enjoyable without leechers. I thought it'd be the exact opposite...
upier
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gli
A team of 8 characters who are all able to deal ungodly amounts of rapidly applied damage, at least one of whom brings [WotP].
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Sounds like a spike in a random arena.
Yeah ...
(Because you are aware you will have 8 people behind a closed door that will spam WoH like heals on recharge on a SINGLE target, right?)
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gli
Why do I have to keep that in mind while you can handpick your winning Kurzick team? Or are you suggesting your team has a likelyhood of actually showing up at random once in a while? I don't think my team is much of a stretch in that regard either.
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Each person that jumps into Aspy rolls a monk. Or a resto rit. Which means all characters on the Kurzick side would be monks/resto rits. Each of those guys brings some hex removal, heals and prots.
Press enter.
The game randomly selects 8 players. It selects 8 players out of a pool where EVERYONE is either a monk or a rit.
The whole team consists of the BEST options for the job. And you pretty much have a perfect team.
(Considering that profane is going to be one of the best counters - these guys could actually waste a slot on Putrid. Just blow up the corpses. Which poses a problem in regards with the fact that a Rt going N for Putrid loses hex removal. Which could lead to the scenario where monks would really be the only possible option.)
Now lets look at the Luxon team.
You mentioned Profane. Which means to be certain that Profane will be presents - each person need to put it on his bar. Otherwise you rely on luck to get a party where Profane will be present. (Also keep in mind that Profane won't be always available - if even. Which means everyone needs additional ench removals.)
And now you need to be able to do do ungodly amounts of damage. And each person needs to be able to do that - otherwise you are once again relying on luck to get the party you want.
And other roles?
That's the problem. As a Kurzick - you are able to roll the best option and you don't need to rely on luck to get a party that will complement your build.
As a Luxon - there are a bit more roles to fill. Which means you need to get lucky and get the party you want.
Or you need to be able to fill all those roles onto one bar.
So what would that (or those, if the bars in question are completely exchangeable) bar be? And I am seriously asking this, because if the Kurzicks start playing to win, without knowing the bar in question - I don't see how the Luxons can ever win again.