NERFING Vs BALANCED PvE side - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

higaru

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2007

D/

05 Apr 2009 at 11:14 - 1

Well it's not going to be a long thread, all i hope for is a nerf for the runners in eotn, u can't find a descent team for HM because every1 taking runners, is this how ANet wanted the game to be?

And if you don't have a monk or a sin, u can't run a damn dungeon on ur own, i thought this game was balanced! if i have a warrior or a ranger or an ele does it mean i have to pay a runner 20k to for some of the dungeons? (not to mention that the idea of a nice game would defenitly be repeating and repeating and repeating all dungeons to max titles .... pffff i'm sure u could have come up with something better!)

Nevertheless, and regardless the fact that i find it ridiculous that all dungeons are made to be soloed by the same proffession .... I still have hope....

Anet, please balance it.... so that when a monk or a sin charge me 20k for 1 dungeon to run it, i can charge him in return 20k for the second so i run it for him.... or NERF so we go back old school and find a team to enjoy those dungeon... and your good at nerfing that fo sure

bitchbar player

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2006

still lost

Guy In Real Life [GIRL]

Mo/

05 Apr 2009 at 11:17 - 2

bring heroes and henchies and just do it yourself.

Malice Black

Site Legend

Join Date: Oct 2005

05 Apr 2009 at 11:18 - 3

Dungeons weren't built around 2 classes, these classes just happen to have skills which make them better at soloing.

Pay for a dungeon run?! You can't be that bad surely? Hell I can clear any dungeon with H/H and I haven't played in god knows how long.

Think you need to rethink this one.

higaru

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2007

D/

05 Apr 2009 at 11:19 - 4

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom Bocca

bring heroes and henchies and just do it yourself.

WooooW perfect attitude for an MMO game! do it alone ...

MrTickle

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2006

delete this account

N/

05 Apr 2009 at 11:20 - 5

Quote:

Originally Posted by higaru

...

And if you don't have a monk or a sin, u can't run a damn dungeon on ur own,...

Anet, please balance it.... so that when a monk or a sin charge me 20k for 1 dungeon to run it, i can charge him in return 20k for the second so i run it for him.... or NERF so we go back old school and find a team to enjoy those dungeon... and your good at nerfing that fo sure

1, YES you can. I manage to fill all my characters book with just Heroes & Henchies and in HM too

2, No need to nerf anything play the game

Quote:

Originally Posted by higaru

WooooW perfect attitude for an MMO game! do it alone ...

3, GUILD wars ... join a guild that do dungeons or whatever

Malice Black

Site Legend

Join Date: Oct 2005

05 Apr 2009 at 11:22 - 6

Quote:

Originally Posted by higaru

WooooW perfect attitude for an MMO game! do it alone ...

LOL where have you been for the last 2 years?!

H/H is THE game.

Enon

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Taking a dip at Nundu Bay

05 Apr 2009 at 11:33 - 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by higaru

if i have a warrior or a ranger or an ele does it mean i have to pay a runner 20k to for some of the dungeons?

No, you don't have to get a run. It's all optional really.

Every dungeon out there can be easily done by the most random parties on NM. On HM it's a bit more difficult, but I think most (if not all) dungeons are doable on HM with a somewhat balanced party. Can't find anyone in the outpost? Ask friends, guild mates or people from the alliance. Still can't find anyone? Use those damn heroes and henchmen. Be creative and stop moaning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by higaru

(not to mention that the idea of a nice game would defenitly be repeating and repeating and repeating all dungeons to max titles .... pffff i'm sure u could have come up with something better!)

Welcome to the world of MMOs?

Bug John

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

05 Apr 2009 at 11:43 - 8

Quote:

Originally Posted by higaru

Well it's not going to be a long thread, all i hope for is a nerf for the runners in eotn, u can't find a descent team for HM because every1 taking runners, is this how ANet wanted the game to be?

And if you don't have a monk or a sin, u can't run a damn dungeon on ur own, i thought this game was balanced! if i have a warrior or a ranger or an ele does it mean i have to pay a runner 20k to for some of the dungeons? (not to mention that the idea of a nice game would defenitly be repeating and repeating and repeating all dungeons to max titles .... pffff i'm sure u could have come up with something better!)

Nevertheless, and regardless the fact that i find it ridiculous that all dungeons are made to be soloed by the same proffession .... I still have hope....

Anet, please balance it.... so that when a monk or a sin charge me 20k for 1 dungeon to run it, i can charge him in return 20k for the second so i run it for him.... or NERF so we go back old school and find a team to enjoy those dungeon... and your good at nerfing that fo sure

It's not because you kill dungeon running that you'll find more people willing to form groups.

I hero/henched my HM Dungeon Master Book, and I'd never pug a dungeon, because most people willing to pug fail at the game.

If you're not lazy, find a pve guild (or alliance) and group with guildmates. If you are, get decent builds, and hero/hench the dungeons.

Fril Estelin

So Serious...

Join Date: Jan 2007

London

Nerfs Are [WHAK]

E/

05 Apr 2009 at 11:48 - 9

Quote:

Originally Posted by higaru

WooooW perfect attitude for an MMO game! do it alone ...

Well solo-ing or running is "doing it alone", isn't it?

glacialphoenix

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2008

Singapore

Royal Order of Flying Lemmings [ROFL]

Mo/

05 Apr 2009 at 11:55 - 10

Quote:

if i have a warrior or a ranger or an ele does it mean i have to pay a runner 20k to for some of the dungeons?

Not at all. If you're unhappy with the runners... don't get run. Find a few people to do it with you, maybe in the PUG Grouping section here, or people you've played with before.

Quote:

It's not because you kill dungeon running that you'll find more people willing to form groups.

Exactly. I finished it with a friend. I can understand not liking to H/H, but just one or two more people would make a difference if that's what you're unhappy about! Nerfing wouldn't change a thing.

Clone

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

05 Apr 2009 at 12:36 - 11

If you can't find a group now, you won't find one after you beg for your nerf.

Forcing a certian play style for an area doesn't increase the population in the area. It does far more to reduce the entire game's population.

This is very similar to the Ursan situation. A vocal miniorty cried that they couldn't find groups. How they couldn't find eachother if there truly were that many of them, I'll never know. The end result wasn't an increase in pick up groups using other skills. It just was a reduction of the amount and quality of the groups.

stanzhao

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2008

05 Apr 2009 at 12:55 - 12

man, is anyone else getting tired of these QQ threads...

does anyone remember what game is called? Guild Wars... emphasis on the Guild part. find a good guild, have fun, get shit done... end of

lewis91

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2008

Wales

Order of the Azurelight[OA]

E/

05 Apr 2009 at 13:25 - 13

Hm, i too are on the fence about this topic. I'd like everyone not to be lazy and do it as a team, but when it comes to filling in a hardmode book over and over, id pay for every dungeon providing theyre at least twice as fast as i could do it with H/H. But my guild are quite cool, they go on dungeon runs quite often so i can just hitch a ride with them

TheodenKing

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2008

DoA

Dark Order of Retarded Knights (doRk)

N/Me

05 Apr 2009 at 15:27 - 14

Join us... we do a HM dungeon or FoW clear or DoA or UW at least once per evening. We all use Teamspeak, and it's always a good time. We're Luxon, but we don't give a flying leap about faction, (though we blue-dot-hunt in AB when the grinding gets boring). And unlike many guilds, we keep the guild/alliance drama to a minimum.

Look me up in game: Godzilla Matsui

If you don't join us, then join a different guild and put your frustration to rest. When you're in a fairly active pve guild, PUGs aren't necessary, and H/H is always there when you want, but rarely needed.

Eragon Zarroc

Atra estern?? ono thelduin

Join Date: Jan 2008

Madness Incarnate

[Duo]

W/P

05 Apr 2009 at 15:30 - 15

u don't have to take the runs. u can just as easily do the dungeons urself with heros. dungeon runners pray on those who are unable to do the dungeons for themselves. but i do agree that is quite rediculous though that over half the dungeons or so can be done by single players. dungeons were meant to be the harder part of EOTN in comparison to missions and now they are just something that u can pay to have done without any effort, lol.

DarkGanni

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

Malta

[CuTe]

E/

05 Apr 2009 at 15:46 - 16

With the current state of the game pugs are almost a lost cause, H/H are your best hope, and a good guild (or friends) can be your best chance to do dungeons with a normal balanced group.

It's your call imo, deal with it or keep crying.

faraaz

Banned

Join Date: Feb 2008

India

Hey Mallyx [icU]

A/

05 Apr 2009 at 15:59 - 17

If you want to do it without running it, get a half decent Guild which doesnt mind wasting 3 hours doing something that would otherwise take 30 mins, seeing as how you have that much time to waste.

bel unbreakable

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2006

scotland

shadow hunters of light

W/Mo

05 Apr 2009 at 17:18 - 18

bye old school i take it you mean before heros when you could get 20+ monks in an out post doing shit all till you payed them

snaek

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

N/

05 Apr 2009 at 17:29 - 19

sowrie to tell you this...but multiplayer is dead.
ai vs ai is where its at.

gremlin

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2006

GWAR

Me/Mo

05 Apr 2009 at 17:33 - 20

The PVE game rewards solo play so there are many players doing it solo and it's already been said solo play is easier with some classes so again those classes are used more than others.

I am generalising I know but it does seem that way.

To the OP
I do take your point ie Is this the way Anet intended the game to be.

Probably not but its drifted in that direction, because no matter the size of the party the enemies levels and size never changes.
So for ease of play you do everything with a full party, but then you have to share the drops between the group.

So solo and small team play was born to enable players to have a greater chance of valuable reward items.

They also probably didn't envision players replaying the game ad infinitum to gain riches, which brings us to today's game.

I doubt it can be reversed, but if in GW2 they make the mission dificulty balanced according to the number in the team then solo or party will make little difference.
Of course they would also have to increase the rewards too for party play or again solo play will become the preferred style.

It certainly needs thinking about anyway, to see what can be done to encourage team play or at least not discourage it.

Malice Black

Site Legend

Join Date: Oct 2005

05 Apr 2009 at 17:33 - 21

Quote:

Originally Posted by bel unbreakable

bye old school i take it you mean before heros when you could get 20+ monks in an out post doing shit all till you payed them

Monk strike was pretty funny tbh

Marhans Grotto was full of people throwing abuse at the afk dancing monks.

Remember those?

Green Chiken

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2009

From California to Arizona

05 Apr 2009 at 17:35 - 22

I think you need to get some friends to do it with, runs are optional if you havent noticed. Plus doing a dungeon in NM or HM is easy with the right builds. ALSO!!!!-if you forget, its called a game...so dont get all mad and take it so serious

Fates

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Kanuckistan

Mirror of Reason [SNOW]

R/

05 Apr 2009 at 18:47 - 23

See, the problem is you, and players like you.

Anet has to cater to all players, both good and bad. If they want their game to succeed, they have to make it fun to play. To be fun, even the bad players have to be successful. Therefore the game has to be dumbed down to allow bad players to succeed. By doing this, it makes it easier for good players to reduce the number of players they need in a group and still be successful.

Even with it dumbed down, bad players still have problems with the dungeons, thus creating a market that the good players can and have exploited.

Get better at the game and this wont be an issue for you.

Rak Orgon of Beowulf

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2007

just chillin

Omg Gwen Is Legal [EotN]

05 Apr 2009 at 19:07 - 24

join a guild, ask someone to join you.
don't pay for runs you don't want. make a build for the dungeon and go.
quit QQing.

the end.

snaek

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

N/

05 Apr 2009 at 20:24 - 25

Quote:

Originally Posted by fates monk

See, the problem is you, and players like you.

Anet has to cater to all players, both good and bad. If they want their game to succeed, they have to make it fun to play. To be fun, even the bad players have to be successful. Therefore the game has to be dumbed down to allow bad players to succeed. By doing this, it makes it easier for good players to reduce the number of players they need in a group and still be successful.

Even with it dumbed down, bad players still have problems with the dungeons, thus creating a market that the good players can and have exploited.

Get better at the game and this wont be an issue for you.

i really don't think thats what the op was trying to say...

while i agree that anet has dumbed down the game, and it may even be true that the op isn't very skilled at the game, he was not asking for the game to be easier.

what the op was saying is how anet has catered to the solo farmers, and has turned gw into a single-player farmfest game. it has nothing to do with skill level at all.

Ate of DK

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

Netherlands

None but Fools [nuts]

05 Apr 2009 at 20:58 - 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

Monk strike was pretty funny tbh

Marhans Grotto was full of people throwing abuse at the afk dancing monks.

Remember those?

I always loved going AFK in the Thunderhead Keep or Hell's Precipe outposts with a monk.

Nanood

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Supermans Crystal Palace

Legion Of The Dark Sun

05 Apr 2009 at 21:06 - 27

QQ. Poor me I can't do the dungeons cause everyone gets runs... Pfft.

I completed the last of the dungeons yesterday in HM all by myself. It can be done.

The fact that people have develpoed ways in the game to make money like running services is not a bad thing for the game and doesn't stop you doing anything.

Grj

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2007

05 Apr 2009 at 22:43 - 28

Oh comments in this thread is hillarious remember a quote like this:

Quote:

Poor me i can't do anything in game because everyone runs Ursan

How's this any different, now people are telling the op to stop QQ'ing, suck it up etc... getting run through a dungeon take less skill then ursan ever did.

Where are all the people who constantly bitch/scream/cry about balance on these fourms?

Ate of DK

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

Netherlands

None but Fools [nuts]

05 Apr 2009 at 23:17 - 29

The QQ never stops. Nerfing something means nothing more than overpowering the next option.

RotteN

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

W/

05 Apr 2009 at 23:26 - 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrTickle

3, GUILD wars ... join a guild that do dungeons or whatever

Guild WARS ... just play PvP already

(sorry, couldn't help it)

Anyway, I've already repeated my view on "PvE balance" a few times, but for the sake of filling this thread with something besides QQing about it and QQing about other people QQing, i'll type it out again.

The sad, sad thruth about PvE in Guild Wars is that it shouldn't be balanced.
This might sound odd at first, but i'm fairly certain we can all agree that the majority of PvE players just want to get "things done".

They are not looking for a challenge (some are, i know, but i'm talking majority here). They are looking for "achievements", ranging from shiny objects to titles to whatever PvE-ers do these days.

When Arenanet decided to introduce "elite areas" and "hard mode" with better spoils, that majority of PvE-ers didn't want the challenge of "harder PvE". They wanted the spoils that came with it (titles, stuff like tormented weapons, Voltaic spears, frog scepters, ...). And when a few smart people came up with an easy way to get it done, everyone hopped on it like bees on honey.

Arenanet made a key error when designing "hard" areas to be about "bigger, harder, stronger" monsters. The "correct" way would be to put in better AI, and more balanced groups, reducing the amounts of gimmicks one could use.

I'm sorry, but the moment they seperated PvE from PvP, that was pretty much thé obvious sign balance in PvE does not, and will never, matter.

So you can either whine about it, or find a group of like-minded people and enjoy Guild Wars the way you want. I wish you the best of luck if you chose the latter, since it's obviously the harder, but more enjoyable option.

MrTickle

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2006

delete this account

N/

05 Apr 2009 at 23:44 - 31

Quote:

Originally Posted by RotteN

Guild WARS ... just play PvP already

(sorry, couldn't help it)....

Hey it was 50/50

Hailey Anne

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2007

A/E

06 Apr 2009 at 02:14 - 32

Agree with all the people saying find a decent guild.
So this stop whining. and fyi not only Monk and Sin can run dungeons. ANY char can run one IF you know what youre doing.

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

06 Apr 2009 at 02:38 - 33

Quote:

Originally Posted by higaru

Well it's not going to be a long thread, all i hope for is a nerf for the runners in eotn, u can't find a descent team for HM because every1 taking runners, is this how ANet wanted the game to be?

And if you don't have a monk or a sin, u can't run a damn dungeon on ur own, i thought this game was balanced! if i have a warrior or a ranger or an ele does it mean i have to pay a runner 20k to for some of the dungeons? (not to mention that the idea of a nice game would defenitly be repeating and repeating and repeating all dungeons to max titles .... pffff i'm sure u could have come up with something better!)

Nevertheless, and regardless the fact that i find it ridiculous that all dungeons are made to be soloed by the same proffession .... I still have hope....

Anet, please balance it.... so that when a monk or a sin charge me 20k for 1 dungeon to run it, i can charge him in return 20k for the second so i run it for him.... or NERF so we go back old school and find a team to enjoy those dungeon... and your good at nerfing that fo sure

Every online game is going to have places that certain characters can solo, and certain characters can't. There's really no way to reasonably nerf every single dungeon run in EotN without causing a major bitchfest. ANet would either have to nerf perma sin/solo monk builds, (which at this point in the game is only going to cause people to get pissed off and quit), or make it unable to solo every single dungeon (which would be stupid and take a fair amount of time).

If you don't have a monk or an assassin, then actually do a dungeon the way they were meant to be done - play through them. Find a guild, make some friends, play with h/h.

And for the record, PvE hasn't been balanced for a very long time.

Quote:

fyi not only Monk and Sin can run dungeons. ANY char can run one IF you know what youre doing.

That's bs and you know it. Of course if you really believe that is true, go run frostmaw or slavers HM with a paragon. I can guarantee you and everyone else who tries will fail. No matter how knowledgeable and skillful you are, some stuff is impossible to solo/run.

Redvex

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2006

R/

06 Apr 2009 at 07:57 - 34

I'm agree with you. Now everyone use permasin 600hp/smite tu run everything.
I hope in a mega nerf so stop runinng.
Easy days for you come to an end.

Fay Vert

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

R/

06 Apr 2009 at 09:06 - 35

The biggest qq in here is all those qq about the OP!

I believe the OP wants to play with people, not a bad thing to aspire to in an MMO. Unfortunately, nobody else does.

It's also correct about the two professions that have an ANet given right to solo everything simpley because of a couple of broken skills. Why the hell perma hasn't been fixed!

RotteN

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

W/

06 Apr 2009 at 13:30 - 36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Why the hell perma hasn't been fixed!

Because Anet is a company, and a company has every intention to please the majority of its customers.

A lot of people enjoy the spoils of perma-sins. Hence they won't nerf it. All they'll do is keep it in check (as in, nerfing certain runs that gain too much of a profit), but they'll never destroy it.

Raven Wing

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

The Imperial Guards of Istan [TIGI]

N/

06 Apr 2009 at 13:44 - 37

Who says the monsters shall remain permanent? The humans, the players have achieved almost infinite new skills and builds since GW started, but monsters remain largely unchanged. Why? some of them are intelligent beings like dwarves, kournans, shiroken and demons. They could achieve new skills aswell, and maybe they are tired of patroling in the same patterns they have been walking for 4 years. Personally I would enjoy coming to a place and see the monsters have been changed, new challenges.
I guess it would be possible to add some refreshment and rebalancing with very small changes. Give more ranger foes choking gas would make it harder for the perma, and other small changes could make it harder for monks. Not asking for major changes, I know most dev ressources go towards GW2.
And yes I know that thing about pleasing majority of the customers who want to only farm using 1 or 2 builds. But that gets boring too. I feel that if there were more ways to do things , and still new builds to be thought up it would be fore fun for many.

pumpkin pie

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

behind you

bumble bee

E/

06 Apr 2009 at 14:24 - 38

balance pve?

so everyone should have the same drop rate? everytime player A gets an ecto drop i should get one too?

Redvex

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2006

R/

06 Apr 2009 at 14:38 - 39

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

balance pve?

so everyone should have the same drop rate? everytime player A gets an ecto drop i should get one too?

You haven't read anything right?
We discuss about the overpowered perma sin and monk smite for dungeons, fow and uw.
In this way no one play other classes and other build

Bug John

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

06 Apr 2009 at 16:38 - 40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

That's bs and you know it. Of course if you really believe that is true, go run frostmaw or slavers HM with a paragon. I can guarantee you and everyone else who tries will fail. No matter how knowledgeable and skillful you are, some stuff is impossible to solo/run.

Maybe he was referring to any class with heroes and henchmen.

You can't make money out of the dungeons if you don't use precise builds, but nothing prevents you from completing them alone (with heroes and henchmen), except failing at the game.