Touchers and Palmstrikers
Robbeh The Mad
It never fails, you're playing AB someone makes a "Toucher n00b" or "Palmstrike n00b" comment. I don't get it, what's so wrong with touchers and sins useing palmstrike? It’s part of their skills arsenal, what’s wrong with using them? It’s a kin to complaining about nukers or MMs in AB, I don’t see that happening. I play a wammo in AB most of the time by the way so I have nothing to do with touching or plamstriking. I’m just wondering what the big deal is.
Ariena Najea
Some players feel that those builds don't require skill to play, and that they are overpowered unless properly countered. You can say the same for a lot of builds in the current meta, but some are simply met with more hate than others. Touch Rangers have been around since the release of Factions (if earlier please correct me) so they have accumulated a good deal of hate.
Just ignore those players, games without monthly fees attract immature players such as them.
Just ignore those players, games without monthly fees attract immature players such as them.
Lux Aeterna
why are you playing a toucher
why are you playing a palm striker
WHY ARE YOU PLAYING A WAMMO
Do you want us to post some skilled builds or tips so you can see why you get made fun of for playing these builds.
why are you playing a palm striker
WHY ARE YOU PLAYING A WAMMO
Do you want us to post some skilled builds or tips so you can see why you get made fun of for playing these builds.
Gift3d
Just cause it's the meta, especially touchers since they've been a part of the cooperative PvE we know as AB for a long time. Given meta builds are usually click boom easy AND effective, that just makes people rage all over the place. Especially the ones that just got massacred by one of them.
I guess i can understand when someone's sitting there trying hard as hell to kill this toucher and he's just there 12121212'ing you to death then they just kill you... but it doesn't bother me any.
I guess i can understand when someone's sitting there trying hard as hell to kill this toucher and he's just there 12121212'ing you to death then they just kill you... but it doesn't bother me any.
Dervish Kid
Easy way to fix the palm strike abusers is [skill]diversion[/skill] or [skill]Ineptitude[/skill] or[skill]Sum of All Fears[/skill] or [skill]Wandering Eye[/skill]. Just wait before the sin attacks because their chain will 90% of the time start with [skill]palm strike[/skill].
Or just use [skill]blackout[/skill]. Touchers kinda died out. I agree with Ariena. I made a sin and pvx'd the palm strike build, you knock everything out in ab with palmstrike. it kinda got boring after a while which led me to deleting it. All i do is spam 1,2,3,4,dash,death charge,1,2,3,4, ect. I think dervishes deserve a pvp meta. [skill]vow of strength[/skill] needs to be changed to For 20 seconds, your attacks deal 5...41...50% more damage against foes.
Or just use [skill]blackout[/skill]. Touchers kinda died out. I agree with Ariena. I made a sin and pvx'd the palm strike build, you knock everything out in ab with palmstrike. it kinda got boring after a while which led me to deleting it. All i do is spam 1,2,3,4,dash,death charge,1,2,3,4, ect. I think dervishes deserve a pvp meta. [skill]vow of strength[/skill] needs to be changed to For 20 seconds, your attacks deal 5...41...50% more damage against foes.
Coolpb
True this. Not ashamed to say I've run a Touchie before. Believe me they can die just as easily as everything else if you know how to counter it. Most people don't so they flame you. It's a shame because it's just using skills to their fullest.
Verene
Basically, what it comes down to, is this. People complain about everything. Doubly so if it's something that defeats them. If it's a build you like playing, then ignore them and have fun making things go boom.
Nighthawk2dr
Hahaha personally I think running a toucher in AB is fun! Why? probably the same reason everyone hates them! Because they are easy. it's fun to not have to worry and just chill with your guildmates while running a touch build and still do alright. It's not like you're invincible or anything. Maybe the biggest reason people hate touchers is because people have always hated touchers. 
AKB48
palmsin and touchers aren't difficult to kill, they are just annoying as hell if you don't got the correct skills.(You can outrun them, too, if you can't kill them). Also, due to the simplicity of their skill chain, it is really easy to know what's coming next, so a counter can be easily made, even with random dshot, and/or interrupts can usually net the user the interruption of the entire chain.
If you like palmstrike/toucher, use it, even I use it once in a while. People who call others noobs almost always are weaklings who can't fend for themselves, so they resort to "insults" to hurt you. Don't let it get to you.
If you like palmstrike/toucher, use it, even I use it once in a while. People who call others noobs almost always are weaklings who can't fend for themselves, so they resort to "insults" to hurt you. Don't let it get to you.
MMSDome
people get mad that your meta beats their shit build
Skyy High
A touch ranger is probably the simplest build that you could possibly run, and for all its simplicity it's still pretty darn effective, which is why people hate it. It completely screws the "victory through skill" mentality that PvP (should) have, and people who run it aren't learning anything.
Palm strike sins are hated for the same reason people hate all sin spikes: it's a 12345dead instagib that either works, or it doesn't, and most of the time there's not much you can do about it. Skill also doesn't really come into play here. This is more a problem with sins being horrible for PvP than that particular build.
Palm strike sins are hated for the same reason people hate all sin spikes: it's a 12345dead instagib that either works, or it doesn't, and most of the time there's not much you can do about it. Skill also doesn't really come into play here. This is more a problem with sins being horrible for PvP than that particular build.
Vulkanyaz
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dervish Kid
[skill]vow of strength[/skill] needs to be changed to For 20 seconds, your attacks deal 5...41...50% more damage against foes.
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glacialphoenix
You could run just about anything in the world, and it would garner you some hate. Of course, as people have said, some builds earn you more hate than others.
Heck, running earns you hate, too. Seriously.
"OMG STUPID NOOB RUNNER."
I generally just go 'ah, who cares'. I mean, if you lost, you lost, suck it up and deal with it - preferably with some sportsmanship, thank you.
Heck, running earns you hate, too. Seriously.
"OMG STUPID NOOB RUNNER."
I generally just go 'ah, who cares'. I mean, if you lost, you lost, suck it up and deal with it - preferably with some sportsmanship, thank you.
![]HM[ Sabre Wolf](/static/static/../Img/avatar102835_2.gif){kind=avatar}
]HM[ Sabre Wolf
Meta is one thing, were a set of skills works together in a complex manner...
"Toucher" and "Pancake Sin"... take little effort to run and are not complex...
I have run both several times... just for the heck of it to see what it does and say i did it...
but in all honesty... with the exception of PvE where I use the Toucher for various functions (like HoS)... I dont care to run these builds due to their ease of operation.... like someone said... 1-2-1-2-1-2-3-1-2-1-2-4-1-2-1-2... ya... so hard...
These are not Meta builds... they are Gimmick builds... which is why people dont care to play against them... its an easy way out to play this game, where this game (in the high end terms) its about your skills as a player on how to run an 8 skill bar (verse other games that have like 40 skills).... you can't change your small bar in mid battle like other games... you have what you bring to the table for that battle and need to adjust to the play... "Touchers" and "Pancakers"... do not follow that idology of play, which in-turn creates resentment to that player for using that kinda of build...
Others would argue IWAY is a gimmick... it does require some skill however and timming due to the pets on/off radar and the use of more then 2-3 skills... but I feel its not Gimmicky, but Meta... because then you have the builds like Kappa Spike and Blood Spike... which I would say are gimmicky or just plain overpowered...
So I guess what I am saying is that the resentment is shown when a player exhibits a build that either takes no thought process to run, or is so overpowered, that it creates greef for other players, making it less fun. But I guess the later is up to ANET to police. Yes players discover it... but ANET is the only one that can nerf/balence it...
"Toucher" and "Pancake Sin"... take little effort to run and are not complex...
I have run both several times... just for the heck of it to see what it does and say i did it...
but in all honesty... with the exception of PvE where I use the Toucher for various functions (like HoS)... I dont care to run these builds due to their ease of operation.... like someone said... 1-2-1-2-1-2-3-1-2-1-2-4-1-2-1-2... ya... so hard...
These are not Meta builds... they are Gimmick builds... which is why people dont care to play against them... its an easy way out to play this game, where this game (in the high end terms) its about your skills as a player on how to run an 8 skill bar (verse other games that have like 40 skills).... you can't change your small bar in mid battle like other games... you have what you bring to the table for that battle and need to adjust to the play... "Touchers" and "Pancakers"... do not follow that idology of play, which in-turn creates resentment to that player for using that kinda of build...
Others would argue IWAY is a gimmick... it does require some skill however and timming due to the pets on/off radar and the use of more then 2-3 skills... but I feel its not Gimmicky, but Meta... because then you have the builds like Kappa Spike and Blood Spike... which I would say are gimmicky or just plain overpowered...
So I guess what I am saying is that the resentment is shown when a player exhibits a build that either takes no thought process to run, or is so overpowered, that it creates greef for other players, making it less fun. But I guess the later is up to ANET to police. Yes players discover it... but ANET is the only one that can nerf/balence it...
EPO Bot
There are ways to defend against those wiki builds: Just kill them. They don't do THAT much damage.
RoJ and Suicide Necros are much harder to stop. They are one hit wins with the power of a ballistic missile. It should take more then one character to do that much damage.
RoJ and Suicide Necros are much harder to stop. They are one hit wins with the power of a ballistic missile. It should take more then one character to do that much damage.
Robbeh The Mad
Personally I have more of a problem with MMs that can create a small army and eles that can blast you with overly powered aoe spells while hideing behind obsidian flesh. Those builds don't take very much skill or thought process either, but yet I don't see people complaining about them. What's the difference?
Archress Shayleigh
They're both very very easy to counter, and noobish people that don't take in mind that there WILL be people using specific builds and don't take counters to those builds - get mad when they are beaten. Don't pay any attention to them.
turbo234
If you beat someone with one of those builds, they call you a noob. If you lose to someone while using one of those builds you get called a noob.
Just expect it mindless button mashing will get you called noob no matter how OP it is.
Personally I hate those builds and won't use them. It's how I feel about most builds that are overused.
Just expect it mindless button mashing will get you called noob no matter how OP it is.
Personally I hate those builds and won't use them. It's how I feel about most builds that are overused.
Lourens
[distracting shot]>[Palm strike] 
and ofcourse [crippling shot]>Touch Ranger
and ofcourse [crippling shot]>Touch Ranger
Red Sonya
What's really fun was building a touch ele that defeated a touch ranger. lol Stomped him in the dirt and then he pm-ed me for an hour for my whole build. But, I tell yah what really annoys me these days is seeing the same ole things in pvp battles. All these GD spear chunkers from every class just about. Course I made a counter build that they all whine about and call me blind spammer. But, hell you can't do anything once they get a condition on you or daze they just interupt every GD thing. Talk about a no skill build. The other annoying thing is all these different classes making SIN builds. Like dervishers. Stupidiest looking combat animation I ever saw, but, damn effective and of course 123 no skill build.
But, I tell yah what really annoys me these days is seeing the same ole things in pvp battles. All these GD spear chunkers from every class just about. Course I made a counter build that they all whine about and call me blind spammer. But, hell you can't do anything once they get a condition on you or daze they just interupt every GD thing. Talk about a no skill build. The other annoying thing is all these different classes making SIN builds. Like dervishers. Stupidiest looking combat animation I ever saw, but, damn effective and of course 123 no skill build.
BlueNovember
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lux Aeterna
why are you playing a toucher
why are you playing a palm striker WHY ARE YOU PLAYING A WAMMO Do you want us to post some skilled builds or tips so you can see why you get made fun of for playing these builds. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Verene
Basically, what it comes down to, is this. People complain about everything. Doubly so if it's something that defeats them. If it's a build you like playing, then ignore them and have fun making things go boom.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by MMSDome
people get mad that your meta beats their shit build
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The builds are simple to play and annoyingly effective. This is somewhat irritating when someone is playing what they believe is a more complex build and still lose to you, so they clutch at straws to maintain their imaginary moral high ground.
OT slightly: Sins can deal with diversion by using an attack skill outside of the chain order. It will eat diversion but not be diverted.
I'd also argue that PS takes at least some skill. You can qknock with it, use chains in different orders, chose between full chain and sub chains etc.
tl;dr - If you beat them, who cares what you ran.
fliakyte
IMO, these more simplistic builds are a little better if you're new to PvP'ing. After you've gotten used to how PvP works though, you should really move onto a more challenging build.
EPO Bot
Quote:
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Originally Posted by BlueNovember
Fail
Win Win The builds are simple to play and annoyingly effective. This is somewhat irritating when someone is playing what they believe is a more complex build and still lose to you, so they clutch at straws to maintain their imaginary moral high ground. OT slightly: Sins can deal with diversion by using an attack skill outside of the chain order. It will eat diversion but not be diverted. I'd also argue that PS takes at least some skill. You can qknock with it, use chains in different orders, chose between full chain and sub chains etc. tl;dr - If you beat them, who cares what you ran. |
Eragon Zarroc
people are retarded and feel the need to call others nubs to make themselves feel superior ;-)
drunknzelda
Well it definitely is not easy to kill a Touch Ranger, unless you can stay out of touch-range (which should be hard due to him having Zojuns Haste and Dodge) or have diversion. If you run diversion in AB you need a slap in the face and stuff like crippling shot is only good when you are on a map which gives you an advantage imo, or if your team has some serious firepower. And PS sins in AB are even more funny, I don't see them solo a shrine just yet, maybe Elemental Defense or Stream Attack but they'd have to give up on a lot of damage to be able to survive. Dshotting PS isn't an easy task if you are at full range and use a Recurve bow so that's also out of the question. Of course, there are ppl that are dumb enough to actually PS a ranger..
Conclusion: Run either build if you're having a blast with it, I've played with a toucher-team just for fun sometimes and we're just chuckling all match long. If people whine, it's AB, what do you expect, there are ppl that enter there and only kill other players, like some PS sins or Balthazar Dervs. Just laugh at them and take the victory by capping ^^
If people die to your so-called lame builds, they should just steer clear of them, as you can stay away from them most of the match, let them kill others, why care.
Conclusion: Run either build if you're having a blast with it, I've played with a toucher-team just for fun sometimes and we're just chuckling all match long. If people whine, it's AB, what do you expect, there are ppl that enter there and only kill other players, like some PS sins or Balthazar Dervs. Just laugh at them and take the victory by capping ^^
If people die to your so-called lame builds, they should just steer clear of them, as you can stay away from them most of the match, let them kill others, why care.
TheodenKing
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Originally Posted by EPO Bot
There are ways to defend against those wiki builds: Just kill them. They don't do THAT much damage.
RoJ and Suicide Necros are much harder to stop. They are one hit wins with the power of a ballistic missile. It should take more then one character to do that much damage. |
My first experience with the suicide necro was the last double-points weekend. Very easy to kill, though there's no debating how effective they were in capping shrines. But I found all it really took was proper positioning of a ranger with a snare. Most of the time the bomber couldn't get close enough to shadowstep.
Puddin Cheeks
I love this discussion like ive never heard it before.
The plain and simple of it. Those builds are hated by most because they are copy paste wiki. I pride myself in the fact that i have never run a build from wiki and I do just fine in certain areas of pvp. Palm strike sins are hated for playing, they are hated because Anet=fail on buffing it like they did. Touch rangers should have been nerfed a long time ago and they haven't so once again Anet=fail. It isn't the fact that you(the exact player is getting griefed), it is that your over abused faceroll keyboard build has annoyed everyone at one point in time or another. Palm strike sins are cake to counter, touch rangers 1v1 you have to have a build that specifically counters it to win and no one says guess what im running my toucher counter build this time.
Blind> [Palm Strike]
[can't touch this]>Touch Ranger and who in the hell would bring that skill to any type of match.
The plain and simple of it. Those builds are hated by most because they are copy paste wiki. I pride myself in the fact that i have never run a build from wiki and I do just fine in certain areas of pvp. Palm strike sins are hated for playing, they are hated because Anet=fail on buffing it like they did. Touch rangers should have been nerfed a long time ago and they haven't so once again Anet=fail. It isn't the fact that you(the exact player is getting griefed), it is that your over abused faceroll keyboard build has annoyed everyone at one point in time or another. Palm strike sins are cake to counter, touch rangers 1v1 you have to have a build that specifically counters it to win and no one says guess what im running my toucher counter build this time.
Blind> [Palm Strike]
[can't touch this]>Touch Ranger and who in the hell would bring that skill to any type of match.
Proff
Like Bruce Lee said "Use only that which works, and take it from any place you can find it.".
Shuuda
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Originally Posted by MMSDome
people get mad that your meta beats their shit build
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StarryNites
Having played AB against these builds found most of the players are just simple griefers that like to hurl abuse while they touch the noob players thats why they like the build,
own em or get beat by them and watch the insults come thru on whisper....just an idiot build really
counters
anything that slows them while pilin on degen i find fun, or just plain avoid them
as for diversion being lame ? have completely shut one down as a fast caster, the player just sat down n gave up while I finshed with nightmare (fun being a mes)
own em or get beat by them and watch the insults come thru on whisper....just an idiot build really
counters
anything that slows them while pilin on degen i find fun, or just plain avoid them
as for diversion being lame ? have completely shut one down as a fast caster, the player just sat down n gave up while I finshed with nightmare (fun being a mes)
Puddin Cheeks
[glyph of immolation] + [steam] = gg [palm strike]Failbot, it is especially funny to see them keep on spamming there chain and not knowing they are blind.
Alleji
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Originally Posted by Robbeh The Mad
It never fails, you're playing AB someone makes a "Toucher n00b" or "Palmstrike n00b" comment. I don't get it, what's so wrong with touchers and sins useing palmstrike? It’s part of their skills arsenal, what’s wrong with using them? It’s a kin to complaining about nukers or MMs in AB, I don’t see that happening. I play a wammo in AB most of the time by the way so I have nothing to do with touching or plamstriking. I’m just wondering what the big deal is.
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People in AB will rage at you for anything, though. I get "noob runner" all the time on BA ranger. Oh, and "wiki noob" too.
Red Sonya
What really amazes me though in AB and/or RA the amount of players that don't bring any kind of self healing like they are going to get a monk or healer every battle. Most don't bring any form of speed burst either to run away from danger. I revised my touch ranger build a little by adding life siphon for those that think they can cripple me or slow me and I can't do anything to them. haha I even on one build added a pet that chases them when they cripple me and still does some pretty good damage. Sure I had to take a hit to blood and expertise, but, the added benefit of the pet with the speed burst helped me kill them just the same.
Ate of DK
For JQ or AB I always run something that isn't heal or spike only. I prefer to play a character that can hold out a bit on it's own. That keeps me from getting killed by touchers and palm-strikers most of the time.
Painbringer
["Can't Touch This!"] hammer time
All builds are counterable some are just more annoying then others.
All builds are counterable some are just more annoying then others.
glacialphoenix
Quote:
| I get "noob runner" all the time on BA ranger |
Quote:
| What really amazes me though in AB and/or RA the amount of players that don't bring any kind of self healing like they are going to get a monk or healer every battle. |
Alleji
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Red Sonya
What really amazes me though in AB and/or RA the amount of players that don't bring any kind of self healing like they are going to get a monk or healer every battle. Most don't bring any form of speed burst either to run away from danger. I revised my touch ranger build a little by adding life siphon for those that think they can cripple me or slow me and I can't do anything to them. haha I even on one build added a pet that chases them when they cripple me and still does some pretty good damage. Sure I had to take a hit to blood and expertise, but, the added benefit of the pet with the speed burst helped me kill them just the same.
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Oh, and just leave the water ele alone.
t00115577
I herd AB is srs bsns?
On Topic: They take no skill to play and are OP, therefore people hate them.
On Topic: They take no skill to play and are OP, therefore people hate them.
The 8th
People will call you names when you beat them. It's just the nature of the beast, especially in any situation even related to PvP.
You see the average PvPer's ego is a ravenous beast that demands indulgence at all times. When something comes along that diminishes it's grandeur, it demands answers. Frantic to find these answers and appease the beast, the PvPer grasps at the only idea it's frenzied mind can produce "Surely it is not from a lack of skill or planning on my part that I have suffered this ignoble defeat! No! Surely this scoundrel must have done something horridly wrong to cause this nightmare!" So he summons the whole of his wit and fury and expels what he knows to be the most damning of accusations "NOOB!" Thus the beast within is appeased, confident that his harsh and crippling ridicule and the social rejection that must surely follow has reduced the offender's fragile sense of self worth to near nothingness.
...or you know....something like that >.>
You see the average PvPer's ego is a ravenous beast that demands indulgence at all times. When something comes along that diminishes it's grandeur, it demands answers. Frantic to find these answers and appease the beast, the PvPer grasps at the only idea it's frenzied mind can produce "Surely it is not from a lack of skill or planning on my part that I have suffered this ignoble defeat! No! Surely this scoundrel must have done something horridly wrong to cause this nightmare!" So he summons the whole of his wit and fury and expels what he knows to be the most damning of accusations "NOOB!" Thus the beast within is appeased, confident that his harsh and crippling ridicule and the social rejection that must surely follow has reduced the offender's fragile sense of self worth to near nothingness.
...or you know....something like that >.>
Hanging Man
People dont like touchers or palm strike sins because it is a generally simple build to play, and it generally kills alot of people.
I never run sins, period. But I have run touchers, and it is a blast
Although touchers are fun, and an easy effective build, they are not invincible.
people just don't like to see other people kill them using stupid or easy-to-play builds.
I never run sins, period. But I have run touchers, and it is a blast
Although touchers are fun, and an easy effective build, they are not invincible.
people just don't like to see other people kill them using stupid or easy-to-play builds.