It occurred to me today that I've not seen any horses in GW. There are centaurs of course, and Iron Horse mine (although it is the name used for trains in the wild west) implies that horses do actually exist on tyria (at least the name does).
However, why haven't we seen any? Is Iron Horse just a made up name, something created by the Stone Summit, and horses don't exist at all? Possibly horses are extinct, or possibly they do exist but we just don't see them in game, an oversight on the part of the developers. I don't think they're even mentioned in any quest text.
On a side note, does anyone know what the Iron Horse actually was? Some sort of tank, or a train as its name suggests?
Thanks
Mazey
No horses in Tyria
mazey vorstagg
Rak Orgon of Beowulf
maybe they don't it is a made-up world after-all.
TheodenKing
The dragons ate all the horses, then went off to sleep for a long time. I hear they are waking up again soon. Someone should tell Zhed he's in trouble.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Lord Of Blame
Centaurs aren't really horses, only half. There were horses at one time, then the stone summit resorted to beasteality and then came centaurs as a result. The centaurs got jealous of all the attention that the horses were getting and killed them all. That is why there are no horses in GW.
Stockholm
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Originally Posted by Lord Of Blame
Centaurs aren't really horses, only half. There were horses at one time, then the stone summit resorted to beasteality and then came centaurs as a result. The centaurs got jealous of all the attention that the horses were getting and killed them all. That is why there are no horses in GW.
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, so who knows.
gremlin
Whatever the truth about lack of horses, there should be creatures you can ride.
Wagons pack animals and Riding should I hope be in GW2.
Yes I know you can teleport from town to town but that's not always as useful as being able to move rapidly around the countryside.
Wagons pack animals and Riding should I hope be in GW2.
Yes I know you can teleport from town to town but that's not always as useful as being able to move rapidly around the countryside.
Karuro
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Originally Posted by Stockholm
Come to think about it there is no Stone Summit women
, so who knows. |
For all other traveling purposes: Dolyak and Moa (a la Chocobo)
Konig Des Todes
Ignoring the trolls and those who take observation as the only lore...
From the Nightfall Manuscripts regarding Centaurs:
It says the Centaurs are like gazelles. Horses arn't even in the same "order" in the categories of animals. Toutatis would know more on this subject than I, but I would have to say that GW Centaurs are slightly modified from the typical centaur
That is, that GW Centaurs are more based off of just four legged beasts that are similar in looks to Horses. But not horses themselves. The closest GW version of the animal Centaurs would be "half of" would be Ntouka I would have to say.
As for the mission name, I'd say it's just a reference and does not mean there are horses in GW.
However, this might be proven wrong for GW2. And it is equally possible horses are just extinct.
From the Nightfall Manuscripts regarding Centaurs:
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Elonian Centaurs not only have equine features, but also resemble the swift gazelles that run across plains and savannahs. These creatures are also more leonine than their distant Tyrian cousins, displaying some of the social behaviors of big cats—a group of Elonian Centaurs is called a “pride.” Their extended families normally prowl and hunt around a pride’s breeding grounds, fighting to defend their territory. In brighter times, Elonian prides gathered around massive “ancestor trees,” where they believed the spirits of their forebears watched over them. According to arcane scholars, the fruit of these trees was seen as divine, possibly as a way to pass down spiritual wisdom from one generation to the next. The Kournans have decimated the Centaurs by driving their prides westward, away from their territory, ancestry, and spirituality. Since then, General Bayel’s pacification campaigns have allowed the province of Kourna to recruit many of them as slave laborers. Exiled and refugee Centaurs now raid human villages to survive, and most have developed a fierce hatred for humanity. |
That is, that GW Centaurs are more based off of just four legged beasts that are similar in looks to Horses. But not horses themselves. The closest GW version of the animal Centaurs would be "half of" would be Ntouka I would have to say.
As for the mission name, I'd say it's just a reference and does not mean there are horses in GW.
However, this might be proven wrong for GW2. And it is equally possible horses are just extinct.
Daft Shifty
Not that A-Net actually focusses on lore... but in the quest "A Sound of Ancient Horns" General Poruk says "This old war horse still knows a thing or two.". Although this quote is referring to himself as a horse it still shows that there is some form of knowledge of a horse... Also some references to horses during the canthan new year by the Court Astrologer..
tl;dr devs fail at lore and enjoy randomly splashing info
tl;dr devs fail at lore and enjoy randomly splashing info
The 8th
There are several small references to "riders", "riding" and cavalry throughout the game, though none specifically mention horses as the mounts. The word horse is used in the game, so it's likely that horses exist or have existed in Tyria. This could mean that horses are extinct, or maybe they're simply not a native species of any of the lands we've visited so far. Perhaps the use of horses as the primary beast of burden in other lands is well known. It could even be they're a rare animal, making it impractical to use them instead of a more common, easily found animal, like a dolyak. It's also possible that the animal Tyrians refer to as "a horse" is an entirely different animal than the horses we know. Until we actually see a horse in game, we really have no way of knowing.
If nothing else, 2014 is the year of the horse, we'll find out if there's a celestial horse then.
If nothing else, 2014 is the year of the horse, we'll find out if there's a celestial horse then.
Gmr Leon
All this talk of horses and no one even once thought of the above? If horses were native to any region of the world, it would seem to have been Orr, and I suppose they held a tight grip on them, keeping them within their lands. Meaning that, possibly, they are "extinct" in the sense that they are dead, albeit undead. However, what the Necrid Horseman rides, I believe, is a corrupted version of the horses that may have once existed there.
Honestly now, it's a bit disappointing that no one else pointed this out or brought it up.
Konig Des Todes
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Originally Posted by GmrLeon
-snip pic-
All this talk of horses and no one even once thought of the above? If horses were native to any region of the world, it would seem to have been Orr, and I suppose they held a tight grip on them, keeping them within their lands. Meaning that, possibly, they are "extinct" in the sense that they are dead, albeit undead. However, what the Necrid Horseman rides, I believe, is a corrupted version of the horses that may have once existed there. Honestly now, it's a bit disappointing that no one else pointed this out or brought it up. |
And, now that I think of it, isn't there an untargetable horse-like NPC in Elona or something? Or is my mind playing tricks on me...
Well, all animal models seem to be in the Zaishen Menagerie, so if models aside from the Necrid Horseman exist, than it'll be there most likely.
Operative 14
Ah HA! found it!
:edit: dang that's a big piece of concept art!
http://www.wiki.guildwars.com/images...h_mountslr.jpg
And yes, I know that concept art (especially from Utopia) isn't going to be definitive proof of anything, but it's still interesting and pretty! :P . It also shows that the developers had the intention of the existence of horses.
My supposition would be that there are horses in Tyria but not any part we've had access to; maybe in the lands of Utopia as shown in the above concept piece. Kind of like horses in North America, there weren't any until they were brought over by the Europeans. That being the case they might know about horses and their usefulness, hence the comments. But they would be so valuable and expensive, especially in such a war torn area, that we wouldn't see any.
:edit: dang that's a big piece of concept art!
http://www.wiki.guildwars.com/images...h_mountslr.jpg
And yes, I know that concept art (especially from Utopia) isn't going to be definitive proof of anything, but it's still interesting and pretty! :P . It also shows that the developers had the intention of the existence of horses.
My supposition would be that there are horses in Tyria but not any part we've had access to; maybe in the lands of Utopia as shown in the above concept piece. Kind of like horses in North America, there weren't any until they were brought over by the Europeans. That being the case they might know about horses and their usefulness, hence the comments. But they would be so valuable and expensive, especially in such a war torn area, that we wouldn't see any.
mazey vorstagg
Aha, this guy: http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Zumo_the_Beggar
If he's a beggar and has a horse, then they can't be extinct like the lack of horses and undead horses suggests.
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gremlin
I used to play a game called Two Worlds and one of the fun things in that game were the Horses normal and Undead varieties.
Archery and Spell casting from horseback was fun,as was riding through groups too large or powerful to fight.
There were polearms and the skill to unseat a rider so you had to avoid those or and up unseated.
Knightly combat with lance, recreating the parthian horse archers or even chariot warfare.
All that and more could be used by and against the parties it would make a real difference to outside adventuring as opposed to dungeon delving.
Riding and Swimming are two things I hope for in GW2
Archery and Spell casting from horseback was fun,as was riding through groups too large or powerful to fight.
There were polearms and the skill to unseat a rider so you had to avoid those or and up unseated.
Knightly combat with lance, recreating the parthian horse archers or even chariot warfare.
All that and more could be used by and against the parties it would make a real difference to outside adventuring as opposed to dungeon delving.
Riding and Swimming are two things I hope for in GW2
cataphract
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Originally Posted by gremlin
Riding and Swimming are two things I hope for in GW2
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Oh, and a distinction between spears and javelins please.
Shasgaliel
Maybe someone can try to make a compedium of the domicilated animals in Tyria? Except dolyaks there are also yaks and animals looking like ox (or are they are yaks as well?) which can be seen used by ascalonian refugees in the sinematics of the borlis pass mission. Rouge Bull from pre searing quest and buffalos from NF suggest that there were come kinds of cattle like animals. Seems like the horses are just not used anymore.
Konig Des Todes
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Originally Posted by cataphract
Oh, and a distinction between spears and javelins please.
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Originally Posted by Shasgaliel
Maybe someone can try to make a compedium of the domicilated animals in Tyria? Except dolyaks there are also yaks and animals looking like ox (or are they are yaks as well?) which can be seen used by ascalonian refugees in the sinematics of the borlis pass mission. Rouge Bull from pre searing quest and buffalos from NF suggest that there were come kinds of cattle like animals. Seems like the horses are just not used anymore.
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Also, Yak=short hand way of saying Dolyak.
draxynnic
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Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes
Javelins are shorter, smaller, versions of Spears, which are pole arms like scythes (i.e., long and usually two-handed). The "spears" a Paragon uses are actually Javelins. Spears are, although toss-able, usually used for melee combat. While Javelins are pretty much always used for ranged combat.
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Much like your typical straight slashing sword was simply called a 'sword' until reasonably modern historians started to call it an 'arming sword'* to distinguish from more specific examples like rapiers and scimitars.
*Or in the case of D&D and derived sources, a 'longsword'. The historical longsword actually tended to be a two-hander.
Konig Des Todes
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Originally Posted by draxynnic
I'd actually be inclined to say that javelins are a type of spear rather than calling them two seperate groups of weapons.
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Shasgaliel
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Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes
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Also, Yak=short hand way of saying Dolyak. |
Indeed but the dolyaks look more like: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muskox
than yaks. That is why I think they are a different species
Konig Des Todes
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Originally Posted by Shasgaliel
Indeed but the dolyaks look more like: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muskox
than yaks. That is why I think they are a different species |
Makes no sense. Yaks may be based off of Muskox, but they are still (Dol)Yaks.
Hildor
It appears more in games when they are designed without "mounts" to be used, that horses are left out of it, but not consistenly enough. If you don't want characters to use mounts, you can't put horses in your game, because then people would ask "Why can't I ride that horse?" or "That npc is riding a horse, why can't I?". But that doesn't mean those animals never pop up in sayings and references, even though they weren't meant to be in the game. I think there are no horses in Tyria because the game doesn't use mounts. Except for some of those "cool" things that had horses in them somewhere and were eventually put into the game, regardless of the no-mount thing.
It can be a very normal situation that one game designer comes up with a dialogue for his quest, wherein an npc says "I'm an old workinghorse". That quest designer finds his dialogue pretty good and it is put in the game, without anyone saying "Hey we don't use horses, get rid of that small detail." Or another designer makes the Necrid Horseman model and the whole group likes it so much that they just put it into the game, without minding the fact that there are no mounts. Just like the Stone Summit Dolyak Riders.
In RPG's the world and its lore are very important, but sometimes designers don't put that much effort in it to make everything perfect. They are designing a new world, but they are also designing a game, which is in fact the most important. They are not writing a book or shooting a film and thus some details are overlooked.
It can be a very normal situation that one game designer comes up with a dialogue for his quest, wherein an npc says "I'm an old workinghorse". That quest designer finds his dialogue pretty good and it is put in the game, without anyone saying "Hey we don't use horses, get rid of that small detail." Or another designer makes the Necrid Horseman model and the whole group likes it so much that they just put it into the game, without minding the fact that there are no mounts. Just like the Stone Summit Dolyak Riders.
In RPG's the world and its lore are very important, but sometimes designers don't put that much effort in it to make everything perfect. They are designing a new world, but they are also designing a game, which is in fact the most important. They are not writing a book or shooting a film and thus some details are overlooked.
Operative 14
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Originally Posted by mazey vorstagg
If he's a beggar and has a horse, then they can't be extinct like the lack of horses and undead horses suggests.
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Larqh
I was reading this and thought about the Kirin, but can't find much about them. They seem like scaled horses.
draxynnic
If you do a more general search on Kirin, you should be able to find a lot. In Asian mythology, they are one of the benevolent spirit animals that brings good fortune and serves as a guardian against evil forces. (There are three others, not coincidentally being referenced through the three other celestials that star in the Nahpui Quarter mission.)
They are often called the Asian unicorn, although apart from being generally horse-like (although kirin are traditionally described as being closer to deer in body shape) and having a single horn (in most cases...), they don't really have much in common. But one other thing they do have in common is a tendency not to be used as mounts.
Now, in Guild Wars, there is a twist, in that most of the spirit animals have been driven insane by the Jade Wind (Zunraa, Albax, and Kuunavang - the latter having been corrupted by Shiro directly until freed - being exceptions). However, that probably makes them even less inclined to be ridden, not more.
Even without that... kirin are magical, intelligent creatures in their own right, not simply animals. While it's possible that an uncorrupted kirin may allow itself to be ridden, the rider had better be someone worthy of the honour... and even then they'd probably be more of a passenger than the one in charge.
They are often called the Asian unicorn, although apart from being generally horse-like (although kirin are traditionally described as being closer to deer in body shape) and having a single horn (in most cases...), they don't really have much in common. But one other thing they do have in common is a tendency not to be used as mounts.
Now, in Guild Wars, there is a twist, in that most of the spirit animals have been driven insane by the Jade Wind (Zunraa, Albax, and Kuunavang - the latter having been corrupted by Shiro directly until freed - being exceptions). However, that probably makes them even less inclined to be ridden, not more.
Even without that... kirin are magical, intelligent creatures in their own right, not simply animals. While it's possible that an uncorrupted kirin may allow itself to be ridden, the rider had better be someone worthy of the honour... and even then they'd probably be more of a passenger than the one in charge.
Larqh
No, I certainly wouldn't believe that a kirin would be allowed to be ridden, but they do seem to have the body build of a horse. Though, one doesn't necessarily have to be ridden to qualify as being a horse.
I did see that it was based on the Asian unicorn. The term was also used for giraffes. I was trying to see it from the GW perspective, but basing it on it's Asian origins to say it's like an Asian unicorn, then it's definitely leaning away from the horse family.
Anyways, seems my thought was way off there.
I did see that it was based on the Asian unicorn. The term was also used for giraffes. I was trying to see it from the GW perspective, but basing it on it's Asian origins to say it's like an Asian unicorn, then it's definitely leaning away from the horse family.
Anyways, seems my thought was way off there.
Konig Des Todes
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Originally Posted by Larqh
I did see that it was based on the Asian unicorn. The term was also used for giraffes. I was trying to see it from the GW perspective, but basing it on it's Asian origins to say it's like an Asian unicorn, then it's definitely leaning away from the horse family.
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One of the other "benevolent spirit animals that brings good fortune and serves as a guardian against evil forces" is the serpentine dragon, such as Albax and Kuunavang. And through that, we see the influence of why Albax is a dragon of good luck.
However, not everything is based off of real life references, so one must know where the similarities stop, and the differences begin.
draxynnic
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Originally Posted by Larqh
I did see that it was based on the Asian unicorn. The term was also used for giraffes. I was trying to see it from the GW perspective, but basing it on it's Asian origins to say it's like an Asian unicorn, then it's definitely leaning away from the horse family.
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While it appears the name stuck, they don't think giraffes are real ch'i-ling just like Westerners don't think dragon lizards (even the big ones on Komodo) are the same as mythical dragons.
As for their appearance - the classical description of a ch'i-ling does include "the body of a deer" (and the hooves of a horse, the scales of a dragon, and so on - the Chinese liked describing their mythical beasts as composites of a large number of references). Looking at the in-game model, I have to admit that it does look more horselike - but I don't know deer well enough to know if I'd be able to tell one from a horse if the tail, head, and hooves were replaced with another animal's and all the fur was replaced with scales.
And appearing like a horse certainly doesn't have to indicate a willingness to be ridden. In fact, it's a common trope for horselike intelligent animals to resent the stereotype and consider it an insult.
Raudic
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Originally Posted by TheodenKing
The dragons ate all the horses, then went off to sleep for a long time. I hear they are waking up again soon. Someone should tell Zhed he's in trouble.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it. |
but yeah ive never seen a horse either.... weird
UltraCheese
I'm sure there are horses in Tyria, but rather more mutated, less pleasant versions. Why are they called 'Necrid Horsemen'? 'Cause they ride undead horses.
http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Necrid_Horseman
http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Necrid_Horseman
Konig Des Todes
Necrid Horsemen were brought up already, and they look different because they are undead. It's unknown if the living horses look that "mutated."
draxynnic
Indeed. After all, how many of the creatures we animate in-game look even remotely like a Bone Fiend? Or a Shambling Horror? Or a Flesh Golem?
Even taking into account that the lack of resemblance between summoned minions and what they were created from is likely due to not having the resources to make 'minion' forms for each creature, the horses are undead - adding a few horns pre- or post-animation to make the end result more fearsome probably wouldn't bother them much. Given that the Lich Lord developed horns and wings, though, it seems reasonable that the animation process can in fact lead to significant changes in appearance (apart from the whole 'dead and rotting' thing.)
Even taking into account that the lack of resemblance between summoned minions and what they were created from is likely due to not having the resources to make 'minion' forms for each creature, the horses are undead - adding a few horns pre- or post-animation to make the end result more fearsome probably wouldn't bother them much. Given that the Lich Lord developed horns and wings, though, it seems reasonable that the animation process can in fact lead to significant changes in appearance (apart from the whole 'dead and rotting' thing.
)
Free Runner
Undead Excutioners are an example of mutation while Undead. They were clearly human yet have horns. The same with the Necrid Horsemen who seem to have horns. It is rather strange.
Obrien Xp
All horses lived in orr. That may solve things.
I have no other solution for the Necrid Horseman. The ones above I find likely.
I have no other solution for the Necrid Horseman. The ones above I find likely.
draxynnic
It would explain a lot.
One might not even have to be that drastic - the standing armies of all three Tyrian nations got shattered around the time of the Searing. Its possible that horses still exist in Tyria, but that the remaining stock is too rare and valuable to send into combat.
One might not even have to be that drastic - the standing armies of all three Tyrian nations got shattered around the time of the Searing. Its possible that horses still exist in Tyria, but that the remaining stock is too rare and valuable to send into combat.
Konig Des Todes
Now that I think about it, there was Utopia (or EN) concept art with horses. Maybe Anet was intending to add horses in Utopia? Meaning the Orrian horses could have been imported.
Obrien Xp
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Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes
Meaning the Orrian horses could have been imported.
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