No More Freedom of Speech on Guru??

No More Freedom of Speech on Guru. its turned into a dictatorship time for me to find a better site out there


http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10366937

I shouldn't even allow this, but I had to because it's priceless. First off, Sun Fired Blank respectfully asked for people to contribute meaningful conversation and this... offends you somehow? Sorry to use so much sarcasm but nothing that this mod posted in any way violates any forum rule since he was trying to save a thread from deteriorating into meaningless one-liners and supposedly witty and clever "fail" remarks.

I also hate to break it to you, but "freedom of speech" never applied here in the first place. Welcome to the internet, where most forums are privately run and owned. Not even by an American as well.

Funny. We've been running the Bugs forum in much the same way since it was created, and I haven't seen a complaint about that being dictatorial. Besides, we've never claimed to have any sort of freedom of speech here, as Inde pointed out.

Perhaps you'd prefer Commuwikinism?

You never had freedom of speech here. Did you know your moderators and admins can edit your posts without you ever knowing about it?

But seriously, Guru is by no means a "dictatorship" and actually has fewer rules that most forums out there. A lot of things slide here that don't elsewhere, because content is only closed/removed when it severely breaks the guidelines of the forum. Just think if we never deleted a post or locked a thread. Imagine the pain of trying to find anything.

Quote: Don't repeat complaints. In particular, everyone has a very strong opinion on the cost of extra storage panes, but you're not being constructive if the only thing you can say is that you think the price sucks and they're only trying to get money out of you. I frankly don't care if you think the price sucks or not, or if you think they're only trying to get money out of you. I do care about why you think these things. Repetitive complaints aren't helpful. Stay on topic/no flaming

Quote: Generalize this example for anything you have to say on the rest of the update's content. On the same token, they delayed the April balance update. That's done and over, so don't bring it up. And generic "ArenaNet / NCSoft sucks" posts are deleted on sight. Contribute on-topic,don't flame

Quote: Don't post one-liners. I understand people are very hateful or excited for the update, but please don't use the thread to just increase your # of posts. 123456chars +1's are annnoying

Oh no! Imagine actually having to contribute to a thread! What will we do?!

Wait!? We have freedom of speech here?! WHY DIDNT ANYONE TELL ME THIS BEFORE!!!!

Oh right... Welcome to the internet.

If it comes as a surprise that we have rules and guidelines to keep things fair, polite and meaningful, I'm really surprised.
You signed a form agreeing to familiarize yourself and abide by with our rules and guidelines when you created your account,- that should have been a hint. Those rules have not changed significantly since you joined.

Rant on Freedom of speech - a much abused concept:

Freedom of speech was never intended to allow individuals to say what they wanted about whom they wanted without consequences. Neither is this how the laws on the subject work in any country in the world that I have heard of.
Quote: In practice, the right to freedom of speech is not absolute in any country and the right is commonly subject to limitations, such as on "hate speech".

The International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights recognizes the right to freedom of speech as "the right to hold opinions without interference. Everyone shall have the right to freedom of expression". So, basically this allows you to have opinions and express them,- which you also have in this forum. As long as they are expressed meaningfully and without targeting (quote: hate speech) a person or group of people based on their race, gender, age, ethnicity, nationality, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity, disability, language ability, ideology, social class, occupation, appearance (height, weight, hair color, etc.), mental capacity, and any other distinction that might be considered by some as a liability (end quote).

As you can clearly see,- there are exceptions to this law as well. So, even if it applied here, which it doesn't, there would still be limitations. In fact, those limitations are not too dissimilar from our rules,- imagine that!
One of the most basic concepts in any kind of social group are rules (written and/or unwritten) which governs our interactions.
Society, school, work, marriage, friendship, etc. - they all have rules you are expected to follow.
So, here is my question: why would you assume a forum such as this would be ungoverned by rules when the rest of the world is not?

Not to mention that the law protecting Freedom of Speech you're probably citing (the First Amendment) only states that that U.S. Congress cannot makes laws prohibiting freedom of speech. Even in America, this does not apply to private institutions like an internet forum, only to the U.S. Congress.

Basically, private groups, like GWGuru and even Guild Wars (if you'll look in the EULA you signed before playing the game, they have several entries abridging your freedom of speech) have nothing saying that you have the right to free speech.

Plus it's pretty obvious the moderator was just telling people to stay on topic. >_>

Almost everybody in the guildwars community knows that this forum is full of pretentious idiots who like to call themselves "Moderators". Its not going to change. There really isn't much point whining about it.

Pretentious? Moi?

Quote: Originally Posted by Yarly Almost everybody in the guildwars community knows that this forum is full of pretentious idiots who like to call themselves "Moderators". Its not going to change. There really isn't much point whining about it. Not to mention users who take every opportunity to bash moderators like it was some god given right to bad mouth people.

When I joined this forum it was my idea that I would find useful information from others and be able to share the same. The Anet GM's encourage the use of these forums to "help make the game a fun and safe place to play" as well as keeping the dev team aware of players concerns and ideas. It's understandable a certain amount of moderation is needed, but I have found this moderation excessive and pointless in many cases. I expect this post will most likely fall under moderation, but I'll say it anyway...as long as members are posting legitimate concerns or questions, and are doing it with respect and within reason, we should be allowed this privilege to express ourselves.

You are Legendary Green. You always have been. What you are speaking of is the "rumors" and "friend of a friend" stories that get passed around about posts being deleted for arguing with moderators, or threads being deleted for no reason at all, people banned for doing nothing, or people who can't seem to understand how long 24 hours are, or the random people who believe that any one-liner or LOLCat picture is indeed a contribution to the thread because they posted it. If you do indeed see questionable moderation then I always encourage members to please PM me with a link to the thread so that I can review and so that we can work together on resolving any concerns they have. I have worked with many people, things have been undeleted, bans lifted and more. Few people who complain every take me up on this offer though. As I said, it's nearly always rumors and friend of a friend stories with absolutely no information to back it up as it's exaggerated.

By the way, the famous lines about the-mods-will-delete-this-but-i'll-post-it-anyway-as-proof-of-how-bad-they-are... it's not real original. Because they usually never get deleted. I am always open and willing to talk with any forum member about their concerns, questions and complaints about moderation and moderators. Many can attest that I do indeed address these and work with forum members to resolve, explain or change the rules if necessary to see that things are fair and handled fairly. If anyone sees a concern please PM me. I can also produce a dozen people off the top of my head who claim we don't moderate enough Legendary Green. You just can't win!

And Yarly, you're just too funny and harmless.

Quote: Originally Posted by Inde

And Yarly, you're just too funny and harmless. I do my best Inde.

Quote: Originally Posted by Legendary Green When I joined this forum it was my idea that I would find useful information from others and be able to share the same. The Anet GM's encourage the use of these forums to "help make the game a fun and safe place to play" as well as keeping the dev team aware of players concerns and ideas. This is exactly the purpose of this forum,- that have not changed and never will!

Please remember that our moderators are regular players like you who enjoy the game and like to discuss it.
They have volunteered to help moderate the boards in their spare time to help keep the standard of these discussions high.
They are not here to boost their personal egos or abuse their responsibility.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendary Green It's understandable a certain amount of moderation is needed, but I have found this moderation excessive and pointless in many cases. I expect this post will most likely fall under moderation, but I'll say it anyway...as long as members are posting legitimate concerns or questions, and are doing it with respect and within reason, we should be allowed this privilege to express ourselves. Got any examples? This is very easy to say, but we cannot explain our actions if all you post are vague accusations. I suspect you have been listening to other users bad mouthing our moderators because of deleted posts or threads. These remarks are their point of view and as always you should beware forming opinions or passing judgment before you have heard both sides of a story.

Seriously? Someone thinks that GWG is over-moderated?

With the exception of the strict rules in the sell forums (which are entirely understandable), this is one of the most hands-off forums I've been a member of, in terms of how it's modded.

Quote: Originally Posted by Yang Whirlwind

They have volunteered to help moderate the boards in their spare time to help keep the standard of these discussions high.
They are not here to boost their personal egos or abuse their responsibility. That is a joke right?

Yes - there's no way on earth we can really keep high standards of discussion.

Quote: Originally Posted by Yarly

That is a joke right? Well okay, I am clearly here for ego. Because that admin title next to my name entitles me to the impressive benefits of threatening PM's, emails, verbal assaults, references to my superior brain size, my vast knowledge of all things Guild Wars, my wonderful ability to be right all the time, and my trigger happy fingers that clearly only serve the purpose of increasing said ego by throwing around my MOST AWESOME POWER TO BAN.

It's what I live for. To put down the lil' people. How else can I possibly increase my itsy bitsy self esteem and find the will to live without being able to step on the forum users and push around my volunteers? I promise mods, I will let you out to play for approximately 12 minutes May 25th at exactly 9:00 AM.