PUGs 2.0: Zaishen questing. - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

28 Apr 2009 at 09:01 - 81

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlotte the Harlot

Pugging is a lot of fun but its only a matter of time before people realize zcoins really aren't that useful. 90 z coins (the usual mission reward) is about 600g for raisu its decent 12-15 mins for that + the gold but for THK its pretty terrible. Some of the bounties are just terrible 35 coins is a little over 200g worth for the maxine/harn its bad the most recent kourna one still wasn't good. Considering the only interesting reward that you couldn't get much more easily by doing something more profitable is the equip pack I think they should probably add some more interesting rewards or increase the number of coins.

Yes, 80 copper coins only gives you a superior ID kit, which costs 500g from the merchant so essentially, you get alittle over 560g for THK HM Bonus but you also get the 1k gold reward for a total of 1560g for THK HM Bonus.

I suspect it is only a matter of time before the interest in the z-quests run out of steam.

1. There is no need to buy so many elite armor for the HoM anymore since transference to GW2 is going to be account based. This means the demand for storage is lower than before.
2. Doing the z-quests is repeating grind on all your characters.
3. Since they happen everyday, people will start to pick and keep only the ones they like. The ones that are too troublesome and lower rewards will be abandoned.

distilledwill

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2006

Blighty

The Legion of the Blue Blade

R/Mo

28 Apr 2009 at 09:11 - 82

What I like about the zquests is that I'm getting half-decent teams for HM missions which I would have done in a while anyway, but now they seem to be at least half-reliable. I've pugged every mission/bounty so far and I only failed THK (cus one monk left, made it to the final mob - including bonus mobs!).

refer

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2009

US

28 Apr 2009 at 10:52 - 83

I've been doing PUGs ever since January when I started. PUGs still exist and not the kind overstuffed with heros. I think you just need to be on at the right time.

draxynnic

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2005

[CRFH]

28 Apr 2009 at 12:30 - 84

My experience so far has been just as bad as 2005 - all the groups want Monks first and Mesmers last. Guess what profession my primary is? (And until the coins can go into storage to be consolidated, that's the only character I'm doing'em with. The prospect of gaining extra storage doesn't enthuse me much if I'm forfeiting 20 slots in the meantime...)

I'd probably have more luck if I could play during peak times, but being in Australia, that's only possible on weekends if at all.

In the meantime... the AI doesn't care if you're a Mesmer.

vaxmor

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

Ascalon

R/

28 Apr 2009 at 12:45 - 85

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ewa Kirch

. . .almost felt like the orginal game again with PUGS forming in a mission outpost!

And thats the crux of it right there.

glacialphoenix

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2008

Singapore

Royal Order of Flying Lemmings [ROFL]

Mo/

28 Apr 2009 at 19:43 - 86

Quote:

My experience so far has been just as bad as 2005 - all the groups want Monks first and Mesmers last.

*sympathy

But I think in general those of us who play monks have an easier time finding groups... it's like, whenever I enter an outpost, there just aren't enough monks compared to the number of other professions going LFG. I haven't seen many mesmers around in general, though I did have one in a PUG who cheerily inted almost everything we came across. Pretty awesome.

Burst Cancel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2006

Domain of Broken Game Mechanics

29 Apr 2009 at 01:41 - 87

I suspect that some quests will fail to rouse interest because the rewards are not commensurate to the time investment. Since we are only allowed 3 quests of each type at a time, and given that some (many?) people may not be able to complete every quest each day, the quests with unbalanced effort:reward ratios will naturally be dropped in favor of those with higher ratios.

This is something Anet could easily address, of course, but the value they've placed on some of the quests so far does not fill me with confidence.

Improvavel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2007

29 Apr 2009 at 02:48 - 88

I guess having to h/h for a couple of years, relying on your own ability increased the overall skill of the community.

Human teams are simply faster then H/H.

cthulhu reborn

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

the Netherlands

W/Mo

29 Apr 2009 at 17:22 - 89

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

I guess having to h/h for a couple of years, relying on your own ability increased the overall skill of the community.

Human teams are simply faster then H/H.

That would be a generalisation. A more correct version would be:

A human team with decent to good players is faster than H/H.

Along with that:

A human team with one or more idiots (of which there are plenty) often means failure or a really long session. Do I need to mention overaggroing, overextending and total fail builds?

And before you go off on people having to be allowed to have their own builds, I will give you an example of what I call a fail build. This is an actual build of a warrior/necro I played with. He was level 20 and a Prophecies character going through Cantha:

[Sever Artery][Dolyak Signet][Animate Bone Horror][Healing Signet][Life Siphon][Vampiric Gaze][Blood Of The Master][Sprint]

He had 20 energy. Nuff said.

The problem with PUGs is that you don't know what you're going to get. One idiot can ruin a mission by overaggroing or doing things that cause the mission or bonus to fail (eg. killing the flame bearers too soon).

All you need really is one friend who is a decent or better player and you can go out together with 6 hero's. Very few human teams will beat the 2+6 combo. It's a simple fact that henchies still rate higher than poorly used/equipped heroes and idiot players.

Specifically in NM there isn't a mission you can't H/H without much trouble. I remember last week me and my wife did the Sunjiang District Mission with 4 heroes and 2 henchies. The heroes weren't even fully decked out as they were new characters. We did masters in 11 minutes. You tell me why I would go for a full human party with the real possibility of getting someone who can singlehandedly mess everything up for the rest?

Esan

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2007

Wars

29 Apr 2009 at 17:52 - 90

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

[T]heAI doesn't care if you're a Mesmer.

Neither should anyone else. A mesmer can front a discordway group just as well as anyone. Better than most, perhaps, because they have nice AoE hexes.

Shadowmere

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

The Grim Squeakers [REAP]

N/

29 Apr 2009 at 19:09 - 91

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parson Brown

I was very happy to PUG the Z-missions just for fun and to remember the old days...

Until... Rragar's!

Failed at least 5 times last night, including 2 groups that broke up well into level 2 when someone would complain that the dungeon was taking too long and that it wasn't worth it for some Z coins! This is after an hour-plus each time (pugs are slow).

Typical conversation went like this:

Player 1: Are we almost done? I gotta go soon
Player 2: How soon?
Player 3: We're about halfway.
Player 1: That's BS just to kill a guy
Player 3: First time in a dungeon?
Player 1: No, 175th time, but I only do Slaver's
Player 1: Forget this, not worth it
<Player 1 has left the game>
Player 2: We can still do this
<Player 3 has left the game>
<Player 4 has left the game>
<Player 5 has left the game>
<Player 6 has left the game>
<Player 7 has left the game>
<Player 8 has left the game>

pretty much the same as the PuGs I've gotten so far...everything starts well everyone's pretty polite and the overall team looks decent to good but once we get going somone starts complaing, randomly quits, or gets d/c then suddenly it's like a cascade is set of others start saying "we've got no chance! resign!" ect. And before I know it it's me alone in a HM mission/area...

Schmerdro

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2006

Canada

N/

29 Apr 2009 at 19:23 - 92

The Zaishen quests are great for getting some PuG's do the the easy content in GW. But for the more challenging stuff, h/h or guildies are still the way to get things done.

I think the only way that this Zaishen thing has been successful is in bringing back some PvE veterans. Unfortunately, a lot of PvE noobs came as well, so the veterans might go back to h/h or guidies when their patience runs out.

Good try A-Net, now remove the hero cap >_>

Improvavel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2007

29 Apr 2009 at 22:29 - 93

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthulhu reborn

That would be a generalisation. A more correct version would be:

A human team with decent to good players is faster than H/H.

Along with that:

A human team with one or more idiots (of which there are plenty) often means failure or a really long session. Do I need to mention overaggroing, overextending and total fail builds?

Idiots and noob idiots (not players that are new and can take advise) aren't exactly part of a team - they are parasites, relying on others people work.

When you have a Team that means players that know what they are doing.

Those teams are simply faster.

Commander Kanen

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2008

[DVDF]

P/

29 Apr 2009 at 22:52 - 94

I have been doing all HM with by guild or with h/h. Obviously its faster with real people but quite easy going with hench (exept for the Veil quest thats nasty as it is)

As it is posslibe to do with heroes/hench why not just raise the hero cap to 7. then you dont have to pug unless you suck.

Sanzath

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Apr 2009

R/

30 Apr 2009 at 02:44 - 95

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shemsu Anpw

Should be great till they ask people to do Slavers Exile in HM PuG LOL. or DoA PuG for Zquest......

Your wish has come true! But I'm guessing most people are staying away from the stygian lord bounty. Those who will actually try it are either really inexperienced with DoA (as in have no idea how hard it can possibly be), or really experienced.

As for the update in general, I have mostly been H/Hing or doing them with guildies, but I guess I should try to PuG just to see what'll happen, and maybe get a laugh or two from the builds people are running.

draxynnic

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2005

[CRFH]

30 Apr 2009 at 11:58 - 96

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esan

Neither should anyone else. A mesmer can front a discordway group just as well as anyone. Better than most, perhaps, because they have nice AoE hexes.

Preaching to the converted. I personally think they're probably the best at abusing overpowered PvE skills, too.

Anyway, second try: Ring of Fire hardmode, mission and bonus.

Six of us were really good.

The reason I know this was that we managed to complete this despite effectively having no healing. Tahlkora... did her best, but was set for prot (ie not helping much at the seals) and was on 60% DP by the time we got to the gate. The "human" monk... was either a poorly set up bot, or a moron. I think the prize screwup was it repeatedly trying to use Healing Breeze on characters trying to take down Ether Seals...

lg5000

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2005

Australia

30 Apr 2009 at 12:37 - 97

Can we have henchies in the elite areas yet? I'm currently getting frustrated with the lack of people who actually want to play together. You'd think that by the time you hit DoA, you don't need to advertise yourself as 'experienced' and that communciation is a bit better than people randomly quitting.

Other than that, I'm enjoying the quests

Though, usually, due to all sorts of time restraints/playing the wrong class, h/h is prefered.

Red Sonya

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2005

30 Apr 2009 at 12:37 - 98

I take my trusted hero builds as no group of human PUG players are as good and fast and focused as my heroes and henchies. I've run all the zmissions so far with heroes/henchies and will continue as that for me is the fastest and least frustrating way to play. Having all casters prevents overpulls as well that some stupid human wammo would do if I Pugged.

Ate of DK

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

Netherlands

None but Fools [nuts]

30 Apr 2009 at 12:45 - 99

99% of the PuG's is EPIC FAIL.

Especially when they all need baby-mode skills and consumables to get something done in the first place.

Nightfall destroyed the MMO part of GuildWars by adding heroes.
And by adding heroes they killed the need for some people to improve at playing this game. Because with PvX-wiki builds on your heroes you don't even have to push a skill yourself. Everything will be done for you.

Longasc

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

30 Apr 2009 at 14:09 - 100

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ate of DK

And by adding heroes they killed the need for some people to improve at playing this game. Because with PvX-wiki builds on your heroes you don't even have to push a skill yourself. Everything will be done for you.

Yep, Heroes are both a curse and a blessing. I did some missions by just walking through, not targetting for the heroes or attacking myself. So much about that, you are absolutely right.

But on the other hand forced grouping was one of the things people loathed in MMOs for a long time. And one of the most successful MMOs, WoW, is actually a single player game except the dungeon and raid parts.

Heroes allow us to go out all alone or with a friend. Or to avoid having to play with PUGs. This is not bad.

On the other hand, it destroyed some aspects of playing a MMO, playing together. It even encourages going with Heroes, as they are often better than a PUG of strangers.

It seems ANet is going to reduce the impact of Heroes in GW2, so I doubt we are going to see 7 Heroes in GW1. I could rather imagine none or only 1 in GW2.

But well, we will see. They are not talking at all about GW2 right now, except the usual hype and drivel. It is great, but nobody can say what exactly is great about GW2.

Jheryn

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jan 2009

Descendants of MARA

E/Me

30 Apr 2009 at 14:36 - 101

I actually am enjoying playing with PUGs on these Z-missions, however, my gold drops are non-existant. Everyone in almost all of my groups are getting at least one gold drop and some of them are getting two, three and more. I am getting frustrated. I've been doing as many of the zaishen quests as I can with several of my players and I have gotten only two gold drops in dozens of tries. Can anyone tell me what the heck is going on or what I am doing wrong?

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

30 Apr 2009 at 15:21 - 102

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ate of DK

And by adding heroes they killed the need for some people to improve at playing this game. Because with PvX-wiki builds on your heroes you don't even have to push a skill yourself. Everything will be done for you.

You know I hear people say that all the time but that is not really true in the most difficult areas of the game.

Have you tried bringing heroes with someone in HM DoA? How well did they survive? You reach a certain level of difficulty where a cryer/SF team would perform much better than a team of heroes because of PvE skills.

The problem with PUGs is the limited mechanism this game has for finding parties. I should be able to declare that I am interested to do a certain quest/mission, then instead of just waiting in town (boring), I am doing something else in another explorable. If my team is ready, I should get a yes/no dialog box for me to join them. Since it is difficult to find PUG especially at odd hours, heroes are a bandaid to fix this problem.

Also when someone leave the team in the middle of a mission, the party is screwed. The game should replace him with the next available person in the queue instead, who is interested in the same mission.

Once I advertised to do Ring of Fire NM (I did emphasise NM) for my protector title, but after I have formed a team and started the mission, one guy realized it is normal mode quarter way through and quit. Face it, PUG players are not necessarily helpful people, they are just there to serve their own interest.

Enix

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2005

I am in a transitional period.

GRE

30 Apr 2009 at 16:23 - 103

I have been doing H/GFway - It is as reliable as H/H, but much cuter than H/H and smells nicer. Sometimes we will take a guildy or two. :P

doudou_steve

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2007

Canada

Guildless QQ

W/

30 Apr 2009 at 21:24 - 104

Quote:

Originally Posted by lg5000

Can we have henchies in the elite areas yet? I'm currently getting frustrated with the lack of people who actually want to play together. You'd think that by the time you hit DoA, you don't need to advertise yourself as 'experienced' and that communciation is a bit better than people randomly quitting.

Other than that, I'm enjoying the quests

Though, usually, due to all sorts of time restraints/playing the wrong class, h/h is prefered.

Why would you ever want to use henchmen in DoA??

glacialphoenix

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2008

Singapore

Royal Order of Flying Lemmings [ROFL]

Mo/

30 Apr 2009 at 21:58 - 105

Quote:

You'd think that by the time you hit DoA, you don't need to advertise yourself as 'experienced' and that communciation is a bit better than people randomly quitting.

This is because 'non-experienced' probably ranges all the way from 'first-time in DoA, good player' to 'absolutely asinine and suicidal leeroy' or 'monk who rebirths midfight in a huge HM battle.' People tend to assume the worst once something goes wrong.

Banane-O-Man

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

A/

30 Apr 2009 at 22:46 - 106

Anet wins! Now there is a lot of pug working together, anet did their job well

Shadowfox1125

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2005

PST

W/

30 Apr 2009 at 23:19 - 107

PUGs may be working together, but that doesn't mean they're efficient nor intelligent, experienced players. I mean, I tried to do HM Divinity Coast + bonuses while most of my guildies were offline, and I was invited to a group with one Monk, 2 Rangers, 1 Nec, and 1 Warr. I would have been the second warrior.

MirkoTeran

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2005

Slovenia

Scars Meadows [SMS]

Mo/

01 May 2009 at 01:21 - 108

While its nice to see a lot of PUGs forming their quality in questionable at best. Yes, it might be my bad luck but out of 5 pugs I joined all 5 failed. I'm not the kind of person to tell people what to run, but some builds just made me wonder what people think...
Just for example, we had a dervish running this in DoA:
[What the hell is this?;OgOC48zUBBelWU9QIB+wu4AA]

own age myname

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2007

Minnesota

[TAS]

R/

01 May 2009 at 12:24 - 109

I've had some PuGs the other day for Kephet's Bounty.

We actually used team coordination to kill her. Did it with both my of chars that have got the desert.

Anet has done good...

LONGA

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

Thailand

Agot

N/

01 May 2009 at 13:46 - 110

Divinity Coast hardmode was a pain because of random spawn.People freak out seeing buffed tengus smacking a lone lv 10 villager.And most of the times people panic and ran into aggro of hidden or patrolling mobs then end up dead.

In the end that was 5 tries on that misson.The one that success is the group that stay when got wiped.

Can't really imgine what gonna happen in Factions misson with 16 players.

Valcion

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2007

A/

01 May 2009 at 16:07 - 111

Quote:

Originally Posted by LONGA

Divinity Coast hardmode was a pain because of random spawn.People freak out seeing buffed tengus smacking a lone lv 10 villager.And most of the times people panic and ran into aggro of hidden or patrolling mobs then end up dead.

In the end that was 5 tries on that misson.The one that success is the group that stay when got wiped.

Can't really imgine what gonna happen in Factions misson with 16 players.

You'd see AWESOME. Or alternatively, 4 people running sab/discordway with lots of minions and things dying very fast, with that lone human MM getting killed constantly from using blood of the master.

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

01 May 2009 at 18:01 - 112

Quote:

Originally Posted by LONGA

Divinity Coast hardmode was a pain because of random spawn.People freak out seeing buffed tengus smacking a lone lv 10 villager.And most of the times people panic and ran into aggro of hidden or patrolling mobs then end up dead.

In the end that was 5 tries on that misson.The one that success is the group that stay when got wiped.

Can't really imgine what gonna happen in Factions misson with 16 players.

This is one mission where I am glad there is a zquest for because you need human healers to prioritize healing for the villagers and it is usually hard enough to find a good PUG doing HM Divinity Coast.

Zen1331

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2008

Canada

Trinity of the Ascended [ToA]

N/

01 May 2009 at 18:30 - 113

Quote:

Originally Posted by MirkoTeran

While its nice to see a lot of PUGs forming their quality in questionable at best. Yes, it might be my bad luck but out of 5 pugs I joined all 5 failed. I'm not the kind of person to tell people what to run, but some builds just made me wonder what people think...
Just for example, we had a dervish running this in DoA:
[What the hell is this?;OgOC48zUBBelWU9QIB+wu4AA]

The best part is the skill cap...bringing that in an elite area

On a side note the Divinity Coast mission PUG I was in was pretty good. Had 2 monks, Ranger, Mesmer (tank > yes you read that right) and me necro. Got bonus because we knew the path and I threw [enfeebling blood] on the Tengu and Ettin's

Zeff Nut

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2007

Canada

Guild Of The Blue Goblin

W/N

01 May 2009 at 21:46 - 114

I am loving the pugs for the z-quests. For the last while I have been playing towards my LG title, I just have to finish proph and it's done, I have done all so far H/H. Along the way I have sporadically tried to pug a few of the different missions, always ended in epic failure so just went back and continued on H/H. Since the z-quests have started, I have pugged every single one of them on my war and most on my monk and ele. The only 1 I haven't succesfully completed yet is Kill 4 Stygian Lords, but hey since the loss of the bear masses it's been tough anyway. I'll just keep that one in the quest log and get it done eventually. The main thing for me is that I've been playing with real ppl and it's been fun, which is why I play GW anyway, to have fun.

HawkofStorms

Hall Hero

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/

01 May 2009 at 22:00 - 115

I always get confused trying to keep track of the guys for the divinity coast mission bonus. Unless you've done it several times AND have good luck with the spawns, its just not possible.

JONO51

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

P/

01 May 2009 at 22:52 - 116

Easiest way for div coast bonus imo is with heroes. Dont go into radar range of chosen, instead flag H/H to where they are, and let them walk there. Then, enter radar range and the tengu or ettins spawn right on top of your heroes :P

glacialphoenix

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2008

Singapore

Royal Order of Flying Lemmings [ROFL]

Mo/

01 May 2009 at 22:59 - 117

Quote:

I always get confused trying to keep track of the guys for the divinity coast mission bonus. Unless you've done it several times AND have good luck with the spawns, its just not possible.

Perfectly possible, actually - the caromi tengu don't attack the last guy until they've killed the merchants, which IMO is the hardest bit - the rest are usually pretty accessible. I generally solve it on a healer by sprinting all the way down to prot/heal the villager. Never had an issue. NF made it easier, really - Fall Back does the trick pretty well. Of course, I didn't PUG that one, did it with my friends. We had quite a fun time bringing non-mains into HM for the first time - never played N/Rt healer in HM before, and it had to be a stressful mission... :P

MisterB

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2005

Planet Earth, Sol system, Milky Way galaxy

[ban]

W/

01 May 2009 at 23:10 - 118

H/H let me complete Divinity Coast with ease. Flag them ahead to the villagers, and then stroll in to watch the enemies fall dead. H/H don't trigger mob spawn, so that strategy is not possible in a PuG. Yes, I'm a dirty exploiter. I'll do the same trick to cap the shrines when Gate of Madness comes up.

edit: Sorry, didn't see post # 116. Already posted.

draxynnic

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2005

[CRFH]

02 May 2009 at 11:17 - 119

Pugged Divinity Coast twice myself. No exploits - I deal with the tengu attacking the last villager by coming in from the side (which you really have to do to rescue the Chosen that's under threat from ettins - if you go to the merchants first, she'll usually get jumped by the ettins) by running straight in and attacking teh tengu group in question until they divert onto me. Means I'm facing two groups of tengu, but, eh... It's an equal number of a warrior-only enemy that's only got five levels on my party. I've faced worse odds.

(I remember the one to the left of the bridge being problematic, but it's been a while since I've seen her being attacked by the Tengu. Not sure if this is luck or that ANet have modified the spawn locations to make her safer.)

H/Hed Nahpui Quarter without any problems - although the leader insisted on waiting for human monks, it didn't take too long for them to be available. Biggest problem, really, was that I personally failed to take into account how much hex-hate there would be - I probably should have taken a Glyph of Renewal-based build instead of an AP-based one.

Fril Estelin

So Serious...

Join Date: Jan 2007

London

Nerfs Are [WHAK]

E/

02 May 2009 at 11:40 - 120

Nahpui Quarter HM with full party today (2nd one, the first one had 2 afk-ers and didn't last long), it went like a breeze in 20mins and I even got myself 2 nice Celestial bows, I wanted these.

Chung HM was less smooth, but we managed to do it fairly quickly.

PUGing full party has been a enjoyable experience since Zquests.