Another way for Anet to make more money - Would you purchase extra hero slots?

This is not another 7 hero thread, this is a HYPOTHETICAL question based on the new microtransaction model asking if you would pay to be able to use more heroes in PVE ONLY (NOT IN HA or GVG). I feel it is appropriate to be able to discuss this now as if people turn out to be willing to pay for this, it might provide an idea for what Anet can sell in the future.

- 1 extra hero slot for your account, works on all characters in PVE for $9.99.

I would buy two right away and use 5 heroes + 2 hench, and buy the other two later on once 5 heroes got boring.

There are lots of people who wouldnt be interested in this, and will think it is a bad idea (Glad defence or defy pain warriors who think heroes suck will likely think so), but for the people who do want extra heroes in GW, would you pay $9.99 per extra hero slot like I would if this option ever became available?

Lets see how many people will fork over up to $40 to Anet, and how many will whine =D.

/whine

I would love the full hero party, as said many times before. But it gives quite an advantage over people who do not have it, so it would be unfair to charge real money for it. And people already paid for heroes with their purchase of GW Nightfall and GW:EN.

A fair amount of in-game gold would be nice tho, like 25k per slot.

ps. Double thread?

How is it an unfair advantage when heroes suck? (According to all the pugs that are now forming for Zaishen missions).

P.S. I believe this one is the updated edited thread, so ignore the other one.

I wouldn't pay for that, apart from the fact that I'd think it would be a bad thing to offer. I don't need more than 3 heroes.

I do not do MTs.
I do want all hero parties though.

But since this extends beyond vanity - I feel it should be made into a core element, meaning accessible to everyone out of the box.
If it would be available for purchase only - I'd probably re-evaluate if I want to continue playing GW. If I felt my enjoyment of the game is seriously reduced - I'd rather quit then actually buy them.

So let me get this straight...you are ok with spending $40 (basically the cost of the game itself) to remove the hero cap. Are you kidding me?

I want seven heroes, but not by paying for it. Don't go giving anet anymore ideas.

Exact same viewpoint as Upier.

I don't think I need to go into how wrong this feature would be, as desirable as it is.

Having additional content (or altering content) added to the game that affects gameplay is fine, but it should not cost money. Guild Wars is meant to be able to be played to the full extent of its gameplay right out of the box, with no additional purchases needed. Doing this goes against that, and would serve only to alienate large portions of the player base.

Although there appear to be parallels between an idea such as this and the release of the Stylist NPC, there are key differences. Although the Stylist provides a service that cannot be obtained through standard character creation, the changes are only cosmedic and do not affect gameplay in any capacity.

I want to give them more ideas =D.

The thing is, that when everyone wants an extra feature for free, regardless of whether or not they would admit to it, a lot of the people would be willing to pay for it if free is not an option. You will get complaints, but people will still buy the feature that they really really want if the option to do so is available.

Heroes suck in the sense that surely the ZQuests have been implemented to help reunite the community.

Playing with Heroes kinda defeats the object imo >.> meh

Obviously it would be an advantage to have more heroes - unless you feel they are only as good as Hench (??) - in which case, what's the point in buying a slot.

I think it's an interesting idea though - I can see lots of people going for it. Just not me.

I'd rather $5 each, since I'd be getting all four... but yes, even at $9.99 each I'd probably get a full set of them; been waiting for it far too long.

Or I can buy another trilogy, painfully plod through every mission again, and then run both accounts for 6 heroes.

Or if the option was available, I could just add that feature to my current account with my legendary cartogropher, and use more heroes wherever I want.

If people are willing to buy a second account to use 6 heroes, then what is the problem with paying the same amount to have it added to your existing account?

I would rather pay $40 to unlock 7 hero use on my GW account rather than buy a second one.

PvP Packs say hi.

Normally I am not against RMT in-game advantages so long as those same advantages are able to be had via in-game grind (time vs money). If not then I'd say no, and in this case where the advantage is only had via RMT and not attainable in-game, I'd definitely say no. Even though PvE players aren't directly competing, I guess there is still some competition in the marketplace and someone with a full hero party will have an advantage to gather goods for that marketplace than someone without.

I personally like to see everything based on skill, but when that's not feasible, gaining in-game advantages via the two methods - the normal western MMO method of time/grind and the eastern method of RMT are equal in my opinion. RMT benefits me because I work and have other responsibilities, whereas time/grind benefits the kiddos, college students, and those without other responsibilities that can poor more time into the game. It's like the old days of washing dishes/doing a chore to pay for a meal (time/grind for people with more time than money) or paying outright for your meal and leaving (RMT for people with more money than time).

So, offer them both ways or neither way at all. If they did offer them both ways, I'd of course buy them as I'm a professional with other responsibilities and have not the time to grind out stuff like that, but would really like to use a full party of heroes when I don't want to party up with other players. It would also give the kids/students a chance to grind out new heroes seeing as they may not have the funds to buy them.

EDIT: I'd like to clarify that the most preferred method to me would be to remove the cap or have some small quest to do so. However, they have made it clear that will not happen.

If money is an incentive to change their minds, then yea - so be it. However, again, if money changes their minds then it should be attainable in both manners since it does give an advantage - via in-game grind (those with plenty of time but no money) or via RMT (those with money but no time for grinding, just playing for short periods). Grinding something is no more 'earning' than RMT in my opinion since they're both about time spent attaining something - RMT being time spent actually working to get the money to buy that item as opposed to time spent grinding in-game to buy that item.

As far as the value of buying extra hero slots, that's up to each individual. I can't justify spending large amounts of time in-game if that's the way to grind out heroes, but I can justify plumping down some cash so that I can play missions with more heroes when I don't party up. I enjoy the time playing missions and stuff (otherwise I wouldn't have tried to justified the money spent buying the game and time spent playing it), but my time is too valuable to grind out something that I think may make other parts of the game more enjoyable for me.

This would have been the best way to handle the storage situation as well. If they needed infusions of money in order to justify the development time (which I'm sure they probably did and will need to do so in the future) then also offering grind-versions of storage tabs would have sufficed. Converting time to money, they could have made it take X length of time to grind out the storage tabs OR just buy them outright. Then nobody is left out eventually. Ultimately I imagine that upper management will say no more development if it's not justified in returns, then nobody gets anything. Developers have to account for their hours/time and management has to account for that time within context of the budget. Whether they allow for that within the maintenance/customer support budget there I have no idea.

This one in particular though probably has more to do with some core value they have about not having a full party of heroes than anything else.

No. Heroes suck in the sense that the majority of puggers dont know how to use them. All those teams that get to 6/8 and wait around for 30-60 minutes to fine two human monks that end up sucking even more then taking two hench monks would have.

To me, heroes dont suck, otherwise I wouldnt want them. But if you actually try doing the Z quests and asking all the half full teams if they want heroes to fill up the gaps, usuall reply will be 'no, heroes suck', and then you run of to do the mission once your party is full after waiting for almost an hour, and realise that they suck more than your H/H would have.

If you know how to use H/H that is. Everytime I try to pug, I genuinely hate the experience, and find H/H far more enjoyable, even better is 2 players / 6 heroes, but this is even harder to find and setup than a pug is for me.

I am also far too inactive now to be in a guild, usually I only play whenever updates are released for a few days, and then stop untill the next updates. Its not that I dont want a guild, but that after I have been gone for 3 or 4 weeks, I log back in to find that I am no longer in the guild that I joined several weeks ago.

So I am a 100% solo player and want to be able to enjoy my games to the fullest while playing solo, this is why this issue of full hero partie is worth paying for to me.

best not give them such ideas
not that im against it but the QQ would be epic

No.
Not just No. HELL no. GO RED ENGINE GO NO!

I've dealt with a lot of dipshit moves by Anet to date, and just moved on and played the game. THAT would be a /ragequit moment.

This directly affects the game. You are allowing people the option to purchase something that will give them a distinct edge over those who don't. That is not a good product for ANet to be putting onto the market. Having a full hero party is something that would have to come to everyone, or nobody at all.

And? That's not an edge over players by any means. All players in the game can unlock any set of skills they want through PvP or PvE play. Using the unlock pack simply speeds up this process. If it were to, say, give you access to a unique few skills that you couldn't obtain unless you bought the PvP Pack, then yes, it would be a product supporting unfair play in GW.

Sure.. why not. That would save some running around for things like sabway and other hero setups.. I'd buy it !

If you didnt quit GW over any of the previous 'dipshit' moves, then I doubt you would over this one. You would be raging for a while and quit temporarilly, but later on you will coming crawling back on your knees for more guild crack.

Believe that I have already tried to quit GW over all the dipshit moves made in the past, but as long as it is free to log in and play, all the rage queens like myself will still come crawling back, begging for more and more GW.

I agree with you. In fact, I should have brought up the unlock packs in my previous post on page 1. That's a good example of where TIME and RMT can co-exist. I bought the unlock packs to I could play what I saw as fun without unlocking everything for all my heroes and characters (well, PvP characters). I said the same would have to exist for the hero cap. Make it either both way s (people have to grind out a higher hero cap or they can buy it) or none at all. That puts me (a person with plenty of money but not much time) on the same playing field as a student or part-time worker (a person with plenty of time but not much money) without penalizing either.

NO! This would give an advantage to people with more real world disposable income.

Bad, bad idea.

you hit the nail on the head as well.

Either make it available via grind at the same time as RMT or none at all. Right now most MMOs in the West give advantage to kids and students because they have more time, whereas most MMOs in the East give advantage to professionals because they have more money. This is a good way to balance it out (if they would do it) by allowing people to gain 7 hero slots by grinding/capping them somehow while allowing others without the time (but want to play the missions with 7 heroes) the chance to spend their hard earned cash.

EDIT: of course nobody should confuse grinding/RMT options with being able to buy I Win buttons, as that really defeats the idea of buying a game.

I still like the old school BBS games that limited you by how many turns or how much time per day you could play. This put everyone on an equal footing :-)

The advantage is not to the extend of the 7 heroes idea, but it still gives the buyer a (huge) head start. So it IS an advantage.

some people should realize that would make GW be like a free 2 play (pay to win) model...
and the fact pvp unlocking packs are giving you pve advantages through heroes skills and unlocked skills (by real cash) buyable at any instructors is already an error that shouldn't have made.

People are arguing by comparing time spent IRL to IG but that is another wrong arguments, people wouldn't spend less or more time IG, it would be just that people would pay real cash to evoluate faster IG.

Imagine grayed hero slots ^^ GW would looks even more shareware-like !

I wouldn't mind having more heroes but i wouldn't want to pay $40 for 4 heroes.

To those talking about how it would ruin the zchallenge idea, well that maybe so, but this is pretty much how i do the zchallenges:

Attempt PuG once only, if i fail, team up with any guildies, if theres none around, H/H Pass.

Hell i was in a PuG that failed to kill Molotov Rocktail in hardmode, so then i went out with H/H and killed him in less than 30 seconds.

So for the time being and when zchallenges start to get old and repetative, ima stick to H/H.

And im fine with the cap at 3, and reg or one of the other devs said theyre not even going to discuss removing the cap

You can unlock skills normally, you cannot unlock hero slots normally.

No, convience and cosmetic pay for benefits are fine, ones that give a particular advantage are not ok.

This type of addition would be unlike anything they had ever done before (with an arguable exception to unlock packs): In permitting the only access of additional hero slots to be through purchasing them through the in-game store, ANet would have completely drived the stake through Guild Wars' heart - and then again, and again, and again, until the body of GW is nothing but a throbbing, bloody pulp. Power should not be bought with cash.

If it's something that drastically changes the way the game is played, and not the way the game looks, then it needs to be made into a core and free addition to the game.

For spits and giggles (not much that proves my point) I asked a similar proposition on the TF2 forums. Check out response #12 :P

Did you read my latest post in this thread? Rhetorical question, you obviously didn't. PvP unlock packs are not "just" cosmetic upgrades, they give you an immense advantage from the get go. I already had all the skills, items and every isle (TA and HA) unlocked so it didn't upset me that much, but saying that Anet only made cosmetic upgrades available for purchase is false.

Doubt all you want. If it wasn't for the eternal mellow of my guildleader I would probably have RQ'd over the stylist (Wanted one for years, never offered to RMT for it).

They make us pay for a game-altering bugfix (because that IS what I consider more hero slots, since Henchmen are too limited in class and their skill bars are idiotic), and I'm all taillights.

I'd pay $40 to get 7 heroes in my party, however this is probably because of my view of most PuGs (and even guild members).
I see most people as not being able to coherently work with my play style. I also prefer heros because they'll follow any order I give them, without thinking twice.
And having 7 heroes means I can play whenever I want, or take a break for a bit if I get bored in the middle of a map. It's just my play style, I beat all 3 campaigns, mapped everything, and vq'd elona with real people a handful of times.

I see no reason why they would charge us for something that was already worked out before the release of nightfall. They said they tested it.

A second thing to notice is that it will give an advantage to people who buy them.

If there really is no other option, I would buy them yes. I argumented too long in the seven heroes thread to look the other way now. They will increase my gaming experience a lot.

You don't need to quit GW in the traditional sense. You quit the brand and additional products brought out by A.Net/NCSoft.

In GW, you don't see the amount of damage a decision made until a new product comes out. I didn't buy GWEN, yet I still play GW. The game pisses me off to the extent that I don't buy additional products - but that doesn't mean I don't milk what I have for all it's worth.

One of the most imbalanced suggestions ever. ANet would be going against everything they've stood for in the past if they did this. Granted, as time has gone on they've gotten farther and farther away from their original plan and model. This would be equivalent to them turning around and running the other direction.

Unless I'm missing something, those don't give any advantage at all compared to doing a little work for unlocking. Sure it saves you time, but I fail to see how the end result is having an "immense advantage."

No matter what new skills come out, you can only run 1 bar at a time. Lets say you make your entire skillbar from new skills. That costs 7*1k + 1*3k Balthazar Faction to unlock for a total of 10k. Even PvE players can easily accumulate this much from just a few matches of Jade Quarry or Fort Aspenwood, and is within the starting Faction Cap. Any experienced PvPer likely has a higher cap, faction lying around for any required unlocks, and means of getting faction more quickly than JQ or FA such as GvG or HA. Back to the PvE player, assuming 10 minute matches in JQ and earning 2k Balthazar Faction per match (about what I get), it would take only 50 minutes to earn the 10k faction required to unlock the desired 8 skills. Do this a week before the release and ta-da, you are all set to run your first full skillbar. Realistically, anyone who is hardcore enough to be purchasing the skill pack anyways will likely have at least a 20k Faction Cap, and so would be able to unlock 2 Elite Skills, and 14 Regular Skills. Furthermore, it's highly unlikely you'd create a bar solely of new skills. I hope this makes my position clearer.

I agree with part of your argument, that having more options for purchasable goods is positive for players who don't have a lot of time on their hands, and aren't interested in the raw grind.

The problem with providing gameplay affecting benefits for real money is as I said before, that it goes against the game's principles of a no-fees game, where everything works out of the box. The problem with providing such benefits for money and/or in-game currency is that the two cannot be equated. For some, the enhancement would be so cheap that they would immediately be able to purchase it, while for others it would be all but unobtainable.

As far as examples go, most players don't have 10k lying around and have a hard enough time buying max armor, while others are mildly annoyed that storage can only hold up to 1 million gold. Either way, the community becomes upset and alienated, and ArenaNet loses future sales. This is why the only way such features can realistically be added to the game, is if they are so cheap that every player can afford them within a small time of owning the game. A good example is the Xunlai Materials Storage upgrade. Even as a new player to the game, earning 50 gold takes no more than 5 minutes. Characters in Prophecies will likely earn that through Pre-Searing. Canthan characters earn a Monastery Credit (= scroll = 100g at Merchant) for completing Ludo's no-work quest. Elonian characters easily make that much between the Tutorial (players who are not new that would skip the tutorial ought to have 50g anyways) and completing Chabek Village.

They are already slowing walking backwards to the dark fee side like when homer found Apu cheating her wife, while saying: "Hey, don't look at look at us, we are adding fees disguised as other stuff, but don't worry, we won't add fees! Haha!".
Let's hope they don't bring all the game with them to that side where some can't follow them.

Anyways, now that we have Zaishen quests, finding partners for those quests should be easier, the problem would be the rest, then.
Being an online game, I see making easy to party a better choice than easing solo play, so the best choice I can see here is a system to form parties worldwide, regardless of outpost, region, district or language, that lets you set what you want to do, and then go make other stuff while you wait to the party to form. If all I know about SQL is true, a single and simple list in which you add a single entry per character stating what that player can make from a list of all existing missions, quests, dungeons, etc is quite easy to make, and queries to that list even easier.

I'd rather go with something like that.

Buying more heroes to use in pve sure why not doesn't hurt anyone else put it in.
Its also a gold sink, what do you think of allowing 7 heroes but you must equip them yourself and armour and weapons are customised to the hero not the player.
I am all for giving the customers what they want so long as it doesn't mess up the game for everyone else.

If its reasonable in price then I might go for it just so I can experiment with full party builds on my own.
Its no where as much fun as playing with people but time considerations don't always make that possible.

I doubt it will happen as I think they are more into letting players alter the look of characters not things that make them better than others.

7 heroes would mess up some pvp for sure.

Sign up for one of their other free games and see what they are doing there, I can see some of what is presently in "Dungeon Runners" coming into GW and GW2.

@Ariena Najea, yes it does make your point of view clearer. I will try to make my point a bit clearer as well.

A player doesn't just unlock his own 8 skills but also his heroes'. Further more, having one bar is really limiting and boring. I, for one, am used to change skills, full builds and even professions all the time. Before I had all skills unlocked I had to stop playing every time I had an idea for a new bar, or needed some key skills for my heroes to counter effectively the current situation.

Moreover, you also get all the weapon and armor upgrades unlocked. Don't forget that now days, balth faction can be translated into money via Zkeys. 10k balth points are equal to 8k in gold (assuming 1 zkey is worth 4k). For a PvE player that is a lot of money to spend on skills his PvE characters don't even get when he unlocked them for PvP.

Beyond the time saver aspect of purchasing PvP unlock packs, it's like buying in game gold through the online store. I hope that you're not one of those Anet's blind fanboys as it will be the same for me to be talking to the wall.

If you ever tried sabway or just took a minion master and some searing flames heroes you would have noticed that heroes do not suck at all. If set up with balanced skill builds and team builds, heroes can greatly outperform henchmen and even some human groups.