Defining Warrior-ship (GW2)

Right now, Warriors are basically unwanted in most groups because melee really doesn't deal that much damage versus things like... cryers or ele nukers or SS necros, or whatever. So, they can soak up damage well... they're not even the games best tanks. No matter where you are, people don't want a warrior to tank for them, they want a perma.

In the beginning of the Guild Wars legacy, warriors were required (remember things like the obsy flesh tanks) in order to successfully complete the big elite areas of the game. This is something that I really think is missing. There's a whole class of the game that is not really needed anymore.

Dervish - Melee DPS, Infuse Heals
Assassin - Melee DPS, Perma Tanking (without a doubt the best tanking in the game)
Warriors - Melee DPS (worse than sins), tanking (worse than sins)

And remember that melee dps usually isn't even what is wanted usually.

So I suppose I would really like to see more of a distinction between the classes again, something that will really allow each class to have a place in each group.

As a side note, if you're looking at the farming aspect of the game, warriors don't have near the farming spots as say, monks do. Permas can run places better than Warriors can.

Basically, everything about warriors is underpowered compared to some other class (most notably perma-sins). Just a few thoughts from me!

By that reasoning, everything is underpowered compared to permasins.

The warrior class is not the problem here.

What is then?

Nothing related to the original post.

(Hint: I don't want to say it because it will drive this thread so off topic it'll make me want to delete the whole forum.)

*laughs* Okay, I can respect that.

The groups are the problem. See your Obsidian Flesh tank for a shining example of PuG brilliance. Also, comparing damage output of a single skill like [[Cry of Pain] to an entire class and the tanking ability of a single skill, [[Shadow Form (PvE)], leads me to a different conclusion than you proposed.

My guild still uses 3 warrior tanks in urgoz, provides great walls + great healing with seed of life + alot of damage with a Mark of Pain necro.

Therein lies the difference between "Lets take a bunch of cookie cutter builds, one tank and mash a bunch of buttons until everything explodes!" and "Lets put our heads together, do the intelligent thing, and go in there to have some fun!". I prefer option 2, when playing with a multitude of people. Option 1 is for one or two people farming something.

Maybe the reason for me perceiving it this way is that the only real time that I can spend any time with a multitude of people is when I PUG... and we all know how that works out.

Even in the face of Ursan or Cryway or Discordway warriors still deal a lot of damage. Killdozer (copyright The Goon Squad 2005) has been around since prophecies and is usually one of the fastest ways to clear any zone. The original killdozer was 6 warriors 1 duals orders necro and a boon prot, it could clear FoW in just over an hour. Recently a small effort was made to revamp it, ended up with 4 warriors 2 paragon and a dervish that was able to clear about half of UW on hard mode. We lost interest after it seemed feesible, by and large we have little interest in PvE.

But how does this really relate to the OP? It is the mentality of the groups that were forming. In our alliance we had someone that refused to believe that killdozer worked and thought it was a joke(lets call him John Stewart, since that was his avatar). We brought John along for a run (how hard is it to c-space 1,2,3,4,5?[timeframe was factions]). John deliberately tried to sabotage the run, by leeroying everything. Failed to sabotage the run. Even after personally watching a 7 man killdozer clear FoW, John still denied that it worked.

Needless to say John was a terrible player. Unfortunately his attitude is generally the attitude shared by many. There is a fine line between wanting something tried and efficient and avoiding anything that is a little different, of course John and his ilk are so far to one side the size of the line is not an issue. That is the problem.

I'm still more than welcome in most pugs, especially since warriors can keep Sy! on 100% of the time(So can paragons, but these guys are scarce) while dealing great damage and providing knock down spam.

Perma's are invulnerable, so it's only logical people will want that. But last time I checked, warrior's still out-dps every other class in the game. Just don't compare a plain warrior vs. cryers+rojers it's like comparing a wrench to an orange. Warrior's don't nuke. DPS = Damage Per Second, damage over time. 7xRoJ can kill anything on the spot but that's not what the warrior does. Unless you're going through the entire game doing that, warrior's will deal more damage than anything else.

Part of me wants to /facepalm here. Warrior's *shouldn't* tank. Get a balanced group, and you won't need to be delegated to a tanking position instead of doing their job. The trinity of tank+nuker+healer works but meh to that.

I've said it plenty of times here. [[we]+scythe > dervishes. And I played extensively with both so trust me.

You're doing it wrong.

Sadly, I agree.

True, but farming/running isn't something classes are about, just something you can do and that some classes are better at than others.

The thing about perma-sins is that, people almost worship them for beeing so good that in the process they forget the only thing allowing them to do that is an ridiculously overpowered skill. You take away Shadow Form, nerf it so it's no longer up 100% of the time or most of the time at leasat, and you get a crappy profession relying on attack chains. One skill that shouldn't even exist doesn't make a class any good.

Like one guy that showed up on Riverside, he did hundreds of dungeon runs, but only Slaver's. Oh how I'd like to see how those people abusing the hell out of broken stuff would do without them... Come GW2, come.

Anyway, warrior's aren't underpowered. SY is a beautiful thing to abuse as well, and I consider them great all-arounders. Possibly the best damage output over time, nice versatility (a lot more than sins or dervs if you ask me) and at it's core, higher survivability. Who care's about little ninjas, wait until next thursday for the skill balance, and it SF get's another hit from the nerf bat like it was promised, we'll see how people fair if they can't rape most of PvE with the one stupid skill (oh god, and if the rumors about WoH beeing nerfed are true, that will be one interesting week). After that, you can put sins next to warrior's and you'll see how warrior's will still mash the faces of all the 12-yo narutards.

I can say from experience that Warriors feel less welcome since launch. The first character I ever made was a warrior, i've got him through every campaign and each campaign I went through it got harder and harder to find teams that were willing to take me over a newer class.

...I see what you did there and although we are keeping this on topic I completely agree.

What I see in most PuG Assassins are kids trying to tank with 70 armor and bad survivability. The purpose of an Assassin is to Shadowstep into battle, take out a single opponent causing the party trouble, spike the hell out've it, and then return to regenerate, rinse and repeat. Shadowform was intentionally made to get into battle without getting hurt, (also giving a time limit, wich was thus reduced because of the terrible abuse), meaning they could get in untouched, kill easily, and most likely be out before they die. But, because some genius/idiot discovered the chain, it made the skill completely not what it was made for. They made the damage reduce because if it was being kept up, you could still kill the opponent, they just wanted it to take longer. The health reduce was to be sure if you didn't keep it up, you lost almost all HP and were then swallowed by the mob, wich is why shadowstepping was important. They were made the opposite of a tank. Like I said before, they kill quietly and come out unscathed. (Take President Lincoln for example, he was killed without anyone noticing he was dead until the assassin had fled, and they never found out who it was until much later). So, what I'm saying is, they are being used in the wrong way. Warriors are supposed to help takeout a heavy opponent and still soak up much damage, while casters are healing/assisting the warrior. I still use a Warrior and Warrior hero almost all the time because he is setup with great heals and still alot of damage. I won't use an Assassin hero because they cannot get in and out of battle without micro-managing. Thus, their purpose is quite blank.

shadowform qq now press delete

ITT: People who don't play physicalway. If you think that warriors are underpowered and that you can't get a group with them, you need to stray from something other than cryway (although most pugs still don't how to run a proper warrior either).

fixed, I love warriors, my infusion explosion works great with warriors. I'd say they don't need a buff at all.

ANet Flash back ... 3 years ago...
"Developer 1": Ive now logged over 4 million hours, and i think im starting to get bored with all the character classes. What we need is some new skills for these chars.

Developer 2: Yeah man ... ive logged almost as many hours as you ... your right, we need some killer new characters. (Puff Puff Pass) ... Know what we should do? (hehehe) ... we should come up with a bunch of new skill sets with the new game release too! That will blow EVERYONE's mind dude!

Developer 1: OH MAN! You got it! What an awesome idea! Do you think we can sell the idea to the higher ups though? I mean, we might throw the whole game outta balance with that. (Puff Puff Pass)

Developer 2: Dude ... all we gotta do is show em how many Wammo's are runnin around, and how overpowered they are. We add new chars AND a whole boatload of killer skills, BECAUSE it's out of balance! Get it? That's the pitch! (*snick* *snick* *light* Pass)

Developer 1: Man, your a freggin genius ... how come you dont own this company yet? (puff Pass)

Developer 2: Dude ... i dunno ... (Puff) but i should right? I mean, i got all these awesome ideas for new skills and stuff. Who better to own this than me and you? (Puff) You know we'd be partners right bro?

Developer 1: Im there for you bro ... all the way. We can pwn this place!
Hey hey hey ... quit bogartin that man ...

Ladies and Gentlemen, the birth of the PermaSin ...

Permanent Shadow Form says hello...


*from a distant that you cannot hear from*

Hello!......!.....!....!...!..!.!!
Hello!.....!....!...!..!.!!
Hello!....!...!..!.!!
Hello!...!..!.!!
Hello!..!.!!
Hello!.!!
Hello!!
Hello!
Hello.
hello


And I just realized, I made a sideways ramp!

Permas are gimmicks, they only useful where conditions are ideal. If you take a perma into Stygian Veil with the [choking gas] rangers and touch necros your team isn't going to last long. If you relied on a perma to do Vloxen Excavations you'll probably lose when you get to Zoldark because his minions have [expunge enchantments]. Though in the right area they are the best. And even in ideal conditions if one thing goes wrong the whole build falls apart.

Warriors are the most reliable tanks they can boost their hp the highest so armor ignoring skills aren't as dangerous and they can get the highest armor and do it with unremovable and/or uninterruptible skills. With good support a warrior with the right build can never go down and great warriors will barely need support at all. And still they can do good damage not usually as god as dervs or sins but they are meant to deal damage tanking is secondary for them. Warriors are meant to tank dealing damage being secondary. Classes can pull of secondary roles very well and in some cases better than classes that have whatever as their main role but they need the right conditions to do it and it's usually easy to counter. Warrior damage is great but there are a lot of ways to greatly reduce it. Their tanking not so much.

Warriors are fine [shadow form] and people who can't beat anything difficult without spell immunity or an imbagon are the problem.

Warriors are and will always be the biggest dps pumping class. Making them even stronger would severely hurt game balance, and this is coming from someone who plays Warrior...

I believe [IcU] have created a Build for DoA relying on 2 Perma sins.
I have done Vloxen with a perma sin as the only tank.


this game was ment to be ran through. thats the worst argument to get them to change anything.
if it was ment to be ran through, Factions, nightfall and Eotn would be more like prophecies, where you can basically get a run to Thunderhead keep and do 4 missions to finnish the game.

The issue with that is, of course, that SF was a crap skill when it was first released. It took ages before people realized that it was possible to maintain it (mostly it was used on select green farms, hoping to kill the boss with sliver armor before SF dropped and the sin died), and even when people could with Arcane Echo and such, it drained so much energy that it was still a rather poor farming build.