Honestly I find it worthless nowadays, the only places worth farming anymore aren't affected by aoe scatter any real farmer knows how to get past it.
Meanwhile in game it's nothing but an annoying hassle for regular play, I play the game properly, and while doing a vanq today I'm at my last straw with this half assed farming fix, I pull my enemies (some cases damn near every group in the zone) flag my team and proceed to go to work on them, I don't use gimmick builds so fights last longer than 20 seconds in hard mode.
Having to pull so many groups so meticulously isn't fun anyway but I do it, but what do you know half way during the fight the AI groups healer will turn around and run like he stole something while my flagged team chases him right into another mob, or spawning mob and it's so damned annoying and frustrating to have a party wiped with nothing to blame but a half assed farm fix that doesn't even work.
Too many times I've watched it happen and today is the last time, not to mention I PvE with a warrior so that's just soooooo much fun anet, biting the ankles of fleeing AI monsters 8+ levels over me with godlike regen, it's not in the slightest way fun (half of the attacks/skills missing due to the speed buff in HM and other half assed ways of making things a "challenge").
I didn't think of it as a big deal at first but the more I see it the more I realize that I'm playing cat and mouse the entire time I PvE.
Am I the only one annoyed by this?
Does anybody else realize how stupid and worthless it is?Or how poorly AoE scatter has been implemented?
I know a lot of people will say "just be more careful" or "pull the mobs farther away" and yes you are right, but the thing is that is boring as shit, it's as simple as that it's boring and tedious to the point where you start to wonder why am I even doing this?
I don't care if ANET doesn't fix this in GW1 but I certainly hope they don't pull this half assed crap in GW2, to me it's just stupid, we all know how tightly packed together these high level mobs are so AoE scatter is a disaster sometimes.
AoE Scatter
Ghost Dog
I Is Special
/signed
Because it pisses me off too. It was originally implemented to gimp farming, but farmers work around it, so its just a hassle in normal gameplay.
Because it pisses me off too. It was originally implemented to gimp farming, but farmers work around it, so its just a hassle in normal gameplay.
isildorbiafra
I hear you. Did all my vanq as a warrior. Some tips|
1.pull more carefully.
2. bring dp removal.
3. bring good healers and protters.
4. when agroing-pulling, have the enemy follow you to the outerlimits. By this I mean the virtual point in which they will break agro and return to their original position. This is the l point where you want to engage then for they wont follow any further. Flag your heros on the edge of this point. You will be soaking up all the damage while your heros can bomb, nuke or do whatever else they are suposed to do without getting killed.
Smile.
1.pull more carefully.
2. bring dp removal.
3. bring good healers and protters.
4. when agroing-pulling, have the enemy follow you to the outerlimits. By this I mean the virtual point in which they will break agro and return to their original position. This is the l point where you want to engage then for they wont follow any further. Flag your heros on the edge of this point. You will be soaking up all the damage while your heros can bomb, nuke or do whatever else they are suposed to do without getting killed.
Smile.
Puebert
Its just annoying now, I totally agree.
They should move out of very damaging AoE like SH or something.
They should move out of very damaging AoE like SH or something.
Ghost Dog
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Puebert
Its just annoying now, I totally agree.
They should move out of very damaging AoE like SH or something. |
BTW @isildorbiafra, I understand what you're saying but wouldn't you agree that is too much extra work just because of broken AI?
jiggles
Lol elementalists.
Zodiac Meteor
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ghost Dog
Get rid of AoE scatter.
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ajc2123
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ghost Dog
I know a lot of people will say "just be more careful" or "pull the mobs farther away" and yes you are right, but the thing is that is boring as shit, it's as simple as that it's boring and tedious to the point where you start to wonder why am I even doing this?
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Aggro controllers make winners. Strategy ftw, Raw power FTL
/unsigned
zelgadissan
All I see is a giant QQ that you've experienced the beauty of kiting.
Name me one good reason why, as an enemy, when:
1) there's a giant dude with a hammer rushing at your face
2) meteors are falling from the sky, aimed at you
3) an army of undead marching on you
...that you wouldn't run like hell. If anything mobs should scatter more because only idiots would stand in a rain of fire.
Name me one good reason why, as an enemy, when:
1) there's a giant dude with a hammer rushing at your face
2) meteors are falling from the sky, aimed at you
3) an army of undead marching on you
...that you wouldn't run like hell. If anything mobs should scatter more because only idiots would stand in a rain of fire.
expugnare
Resoundingly /unsigned
Do you reaaaaaalllly want more SH + Firestorm + Breath of Fire + Tenai's Heat + Searing Heat Eles in your HM groups, insisting that it "TOTALLY OWNS MAN, EVERYTHING DIES IN NM, NOTHING RUNS DUDE!!!!1!11oneone!11eleven!"?
I thought not.
For the sake of my pride as an Ele (and my empathy with people who actually understand game mechanics and strategy) this is getting a no.
Do you reaaaaaalllly want more SH + Firestorm + Breath of Fire + Tenai's Heat + Searing Heat Eles in your HM groups, insisting that it "TOTALLY OWNS MAN, EVERYTHING DIES IN NM, NOTHING RUNS DUDE!!!!1!11oneone!11eleven!"?
I thought not.
For the sake of my pride as an Ele (and my empathy with people who actually understand game mechanics and strategy) this is getting a no.
Zodiac Meteor
Quote:
| Do you reaaaaaalllly want more SH + Firestorm + Breath of Fire + Tenai's Heat + Searing Heat Eles in your HM groups, insisting that it "TOTALLY OWNS MAN, EVERYTHING DIES IN NM, NOTHING RUNS DUDE!!!!1!11oneone!11eleven!"? |
Anyways, /unsigned, forgot to
Lord Of Blame
The AoE scatter does not bother me that much, yes it is annoying at times, but just like all other AI you can work around it.
I would love to see Anet fix the H/H AI so they don't stand in AoE. That's the part that is annoying to me.
I would love to see Anet fix the H/H AI so they don't stand in AoE. That's the part that is annoying to me.
UnChosen
/signed
Especially since Fire AoE barely tickles the HM mobs with like 200 armor vs fire. All the scatter did was make everyone go to gimmicks like sabway and abuse minions and one shot AoE, or cryway.
Anet didn't realized that when they implemented the scatter they made 90% of dotaoe into worthless high cost, high recharge, long cast time spells that hit the enemies for 10 dmg maybe 3 times before it just do nothing.
Either remove the ridiculous armor and HP, or split all the DotAoE into pve version with like 5 nrg, 10 sec recharge, 0.25 sec cast time. Or just remove the scatter altogether.
Especially since Fire AoE barely tickles the HM mobs with like 200 armor vs fire. All the scatter did was make everyone go to gimmicks like sabway and abuse minions and one shot AoE, or cryway.
Anet didn't realized that when they implemented the scatter they made 90% of dotaoe into worthless high cost, high recharge, long cast time spells that hit the enemies for 10 dmg maybe 3 times before it just do nothing.
Either remove the ridiculous armor and HP, or split all the DotAoE into pve version with like 5 nrg, 10 sec recharge, 0.25 sec cast time. Or just remove the scatter altogether.
Shayne Hawke
Nuking is dumb and so is your suggestion to make PvE easier than it already is.
Expherious
Bring back cyclone axe troll farming woot!
Ghost Dog
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke
Nuking is dumb and so is your suggestion to make PvE easier than it already is.
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EDIT: I see what the naysayers are trying to say and I agree to a point, I don't care if they move I don't want it to be super easy mode nukers playground, I just prefer if they didn't scatter so far is what I mostly mean by this, they can run from it all they want as long as they don't run well out of their original mobs placement, into 2-3 other mobs inviting them to the party.
I could care less if the game was made easier if I wanted easy I would run a gimmick like RoJway or equivalent, I just don't think the average player should be punished like this for doing decent damage.
samerkablamer
PvE is easy. Theres a reaaaaallly cool thing in the game that all nukers get to use and its called a SNARE. Here's how it works:
1. cast snare on mob (such as deep freeze)
2. cast nukes
3. enemies cannot run from the nukes because they have slow movement speed
4. ???????
5. PROFIT!
Anyways, ele nuking isnt too good in HM cause the enemies have high armor. PvE is already incredibly easy no matter what profession you are playing.
1. cast snare on mob (such as deep freeze)
2. cast nukes
3. enemies cannot run from the nukes because they have slow movement speed
4. ???????
5. PROFIT!
Anyways, ele nuking isnt too good in HM cause the enemies have high armor. PvE is already incredibly easy no matter what profession you are playing.
Dawn Angelheart
Quote:
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Originally Posted by samerkablamer
PvE is easy. Theres a reaaaaallly cool thing in the game that all nukers get to use and its called a SNARE. Here's how it works:
1. cast snare on mob (such as deep freeze) 2. cast nukes 3. enemies cannot run from the nukes because they have slow movement speed 4. ??????? 5. PROFIT! Anyways, ele nuking isnt too good in HM cause the enemies have high armor. PvE is already incredibly easy no matter what profession you are playing. |
Or maybe you should tak grasping earth.
Ghost Dog
Nevermind this thread might as well be deleted, nobody even reads the posts unless a troll posted it or it's 3 lines long due to lack of thought.
I can easily snare the mobs, I can easily pull and flag there is nothing new to teach me here, I'm well aware of PvE tactics and I do fine, I am just sick of playing against broken mechanics and so called "challenges" or "elite areas" that are far from it, I don't want to see any of this crap in GW2 this game has never been hard.
They need to find a way to make the game challenging, not throw in some overnight gimmicks to make it stupid.
I can easily snare the mobs, I can easily pull and flag there is nothing new to teach me here, I'm well aware of PvE tactics and I do fine, I am just sick of playing against broken mechanics and so called "challenges" or "elite areas" that are far from it, I don't want to see any of this crap in GW2 this game has never been hard.
They need to find a way to make the game challenging, not throw in some overnight gimmicks to make it stupid.
Skyy High
Quote:
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Originally Posted by UnChosen
Anet didn't realized that when they implemented the scatter they made 90% of dotaoe into worthless high cost, high recharge, long cast time spells that hit the enemies for 10 dmg maybe 3 times before it just do nothing....
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Running from AoE isn't a "gimmick", it's intelligent. It's exactly what you do when you face a newbie ele in RA with his 1337 nuking build. "Oh, lol, Firestorm, *sidestep*." How is that "gimmicky"? It's basic common sense, and it's one of the few AI mechanics that makes PvE truly more challenging than it would be otherwise. Similarly, if you're a monk in PvP and a warrior runs at you, do you a) stand there, or b) run in circles? If you answered b, you know why high level caster mobs kite. If you're really that bad that you don't know how to handle it, take YMLAD!, you'll never have an issue with fleeing monks again.
Single-target DPS doesn't make entire mobs run, it makes the target (generally the monk) run. If you're a melee character and you let yourself autorun into another mob because you're chasing a fleeing monk, that's your fault.
Axel Zinfandel
/Signed under certain fixes.
Scatter killed an Ele's primary goal in most of PvE, but it can be avoided for the most part by snaring. Two out of the Four elemental attributes are designated to deal damage, with another (earth) having decent damage potential, though with insanly high armor in HM Elementalists are reduced to support and Healing via Ether Renewal in most of HM PvE.
THE ONLY scatter I've encountered that is actually useful is working with a ER ele with Zealot's Fire, because it makes anything targeting you scatter.
I propose a buff:
Intensity 10en 1ct 45rc
"For 36...60 seconds, your elemental spells have a 50% Armor Penetration, but costs 50% more energy"
Scatter killed an Ele's primary goal in most of PvE, but it can be avoided for the most part by snaring. Two out of the Four elemental attributes are designated to deal damage, with another (earth) having decent damage potential, though with insanly high armor in HM Elementalists are reduced to support and Healing via Ether Renewal in most of HM PvE.
THE ONLY scatter I've encountered that is actually useful is working with a ER ele with Zealot's Fire, because it makes anything targeting you scatter.
I propose a buff:
Intensity 10en 1ct 45rc
"For 36...60 seconds, your elemental spells have a 50% Armor Penetration, but costs 50% more energy"
ajc2123
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel
Intensity 10en 1ct 45rc "For 36...60 seconds, your elemental spells have a 50% Armor Penetration, but costs 50% more energy" |
[Elemental Lord] however, I give you full permission to change that.
sonofthort
/unsigned
I think every good point has been made.
1. Without scatter it would be mind numbingly easy.
2. Do nm if u can't handle hm.
3. Work with the scattering: grasping earth, bonder, imbagon, earthbind+meteor shower....
4. Lessen the size of your aggro.
5. Take out groups in sets of 3-4 at a time, because hm scatter ai does not affect groups smaller than 4.
6. Instead of going with the classic and in my opinion boring method of having one tanker/puller, have one puller, and several tanks.
7. Use the environment to block the enemies from scattering.
Hm scatter was not a lazy attempt to make the game more challenging, it made the mosters more realistic, and actually forces us to do more than sit and wait for the perma sin to aggro, then nuke, then repeat.
I think every good point has been made.
1. Without scatter it would be mind numbingly easy.
2. Do nm if u can't handle hm.
3. Work with the scattering: grasping earth, bonder, imbagon, earthbind+meteor shower....
4. Lessen the size of your aggro.
5. Take out groups in sets of 3-4 at a time, because hm scatter ai does not affect groups smaller than 4.
6. Instead of going with the classic and in my opinion boring method of having one tanker/puller, have one puller, and several tanks.
7. Use the environment to block the enemies from scattering.
Hm scatter was not a lazy attempt to make the game more challenging, it made the mosters more realistic, and actually forces us to do more than sit and wait for the perma sin to aggro, then nuke, then repeat.
Skyy High
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel
/Signed under certain fixes.
Scatter killed an Ele's primary goal in most of PvE, but it can be avoided for the most part by snaring. Two out of the Four elemental attributes are designated to deal damage, with another (earth) having decent damage potential, though with insanly high armor in HM Elementalists are reduced to support and Healing via Ether Renewal in most of HM PvE. THE ONLY scatter I've encountered that is actually useful is working with a ER ele with Zealot's Fire, because it makes anything targeting you scatter. |
UnChosen
The point is that if you have to:
1) Bring a reliable snare that takes up slot
2) Ball the enemies up in the first place, which means a GOOD tank, and every other person needs to know to stay back to avoid aggro.
3) Coordinate snare and AoE spells so they land in the same time, and hope that they don't have hex removal.
4) If they do have hex removal, bring multiple snares.
Obviously this is impossible for pugs, but even with a flist/guild group, all this only achieve results that don't compare to a few necros heroes rushing in with a few minions and a few hexes. By the time the ele even finish casting deep freeze the necroway will have destroyed 80% the group already.
I personally don't find the fact that a few skeletons hitting something with a hex doing more damage than a dozen meteors "realistic" either.
Its funny a class having an entire line of "powerful" aoe spells having to use a mesmer spell (cry of pain) or a monk elite (ROJ) .
1) Bring a reliable snare that takes up slot
2) Ball the enemies up in the first place, which means a GOOD tank, and every other person needs to know to stay back to avoid aggro.
3) Coordinate snare and AoE spells so they land in the same time, and hope that they don't have hex removal.
4) If they do have hex removal, bring multiple snares.
Obviously this is impossible for pugs, but even with a flist/guild group, all this only achieve results that don't compare to a few necros heroes rushing in with a few minions and a few hexes. By the time the ele even finish casting deep freeze the necroway will have destroyed 80% the group already.
I personally don't find the fact that a few skeletons hitting something with a hex doing more damage than a dozen meteors "realistic" either.
Its funny a class having an entire line of "powerful" aoe spells having to use a mesmer spell (cry of pain) or a monk elite (ROJ) .
Axel Zinfandel
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Skyy High
I disagree with that. Fire is really the only attribute that is centered around dealing lots of damage and nothing much else. Earth, Air, and Water all have tons of support skills that are great to have; I bring the Earth henchman for the wards, not Sandstorm.
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Air magic is geared toward single target damage with a few support skills.
Earth magic is geared toward support skills with a few AoE damage skills.
If you don't agree with that, read the very in-game descriptions OF the attributes.
Zodiac Meteor
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel
/Signed under certain fixes.
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Rojway nerf is coming... in 4 days... I can smell it!
Cuilan
Why would an enemy just stand there and let themselves be killed? Scatter doesn't bother me.
Capulatio
/Unsigned
It makes it more realistic because an enemy isn't just going to stand where you are spamming AoE Damage? If it did it would't be very smart now would it? It is common instinct to move when you get hurt, it is a reaction.
I think it is a great part of the game and gives it a challenge.
It makes it more realistic because an enemy isn't just going to stand where you are spamming AoE Damage? If it did it would't be very smart now would it? It is common instinct to move when you get hurt, it is a reaction.
I think it is a great part of the game and gives it a challenge.
MirkoTeran
AI needs some major updates, but this is far from it.
/notsigned.
/notsigned.
Shasgaliel
The only thing which annoys me with AOE is that my heroes bump together (unless I flag them half of screen from each other but then they stop healing each other) and opponents scatter in a few seconds. Why the hell my heroes cannot be half as smart as dredge or spiders?
UnChosen
The monsters with AoE is far more effective because they break every weakness that make the AoE useless for a normal ele.
Slow cast? No problem, HM monsters have faster cast than normal.
Long recharge? No problem, HM monsters have faster recharge than normal.
High energy? No problem, monsters have super high energy.
Low damage? Wait a sec....players/heroes don't have super armor, AND heroes don't scatter.
If they don't want to remove scatter they have to either lower the armor for all the HM monsters, or tweak every AoE spells to have faster cast, lower recharge, and less cost. Or wider range, even with a snare monsters still escapes in less than 3 sec because adjacent range is ridiculously small.
Fire storm (PvE): 5 energy, 1s cast, 15 recharge. Create a Fire Storm at target foe's location. For 10 seconds, foes near that location are struck for 5...29 fire damage each second.
That's more like it.
Slow cast? No problem, HM monsters have faster cast than normal.
Long recharge? No problem, HM monsters have faster recharge than normal.
High energy? No problem, monsters have super high energy.
Low damage? Wait a sec....players/heroes don't have super armor, AND heroes don't scatter.
If they don't want to remove scatter they have to either lower the armor for all the HM monsters, or tweak every AoE spells to have faster cast, lower recharge, and less cost. Or wider range, even with a snare monsters still escapes in less than 3 sec because adjacent range is ridiculously small.
Fire storm (PvE): 5 energy, 1s cast, 15 recharge. Create a Fire Storm at target foe's location. For 10 seconds, foes near that location are struck for 5...29 fire damage each second.
That's more like it.
MisterB
When foes scatter in hard mode, that just means I get free critical hits on whatever is trying to escape. Or I just call the target, and switch to the next priority target. Try bringing knock down skills; warriors excel at it. I used to find the kiting in hard mode annoying, but now I just take a knock down or snare.
Guild Wars needs more AoE scatter AI. [[Ray of Judgment], I'm looking at you. Also, henchmen and heroes need to learn that standing in AoE is bad. AoE scatter wasn't added purely to limit farming.
Guild Wars needs more AoE scatter AI. [[Ray of Judgment], I'm looking at you. Also, henchmen and heroes need to learn that standing in AoE is bad. AoE scatter wasn't added purely to limit farming.
UnChosen
As a monk I always see the following situation:
1)Group aggros
2)Monster goes directly to the most squishy char near the front, which is usually the ele.
3)See female ele standing there with her arm raised up waving doing spells with long cast while I scream at the monitor, "Move! MOVE! MOOOVVVEE!"
4)Desperately try to save the ele by casting every prot possible on her while she finish casting the AoE.
5)AoE casted. Monster flee after 2 hits after barely being scratched.
6)All the monsters scatter into ME after I wasted 15 energy protecting the god damn ele for her weak AoE.
Of course people will counter with "you need to manage your aggro better", but this is pugs. And even if I managed to have a perfect aggro on the tank, why would the group want to spend the time casting snare and knockdown, followed by AoE, knowing that HM monsters will NOT be scratched by them, and will eventually break free from snare and flee all at once into the poor squishies?
This is why we are stuck with cookie cutter cry of pain and necro gimmicks. abusing soul reaping.
1)Group aggros
2)Monster goes directly to the most squishy char near the front, which is usually the ele.
3)See female ele standing there with her arm raised up waving doing spells with long cast while I scream at the monitor, "Move! MOVE! MOOOVVVEE!"
4)Desperately try to save the ele by casting every prot possible on her while she finish casting the AoE.
5)AoE casted. Monster flee after 2 hits after barely being scratched.
6)All the monsters scatter into ME after I wasted 15 energy protecting the god damn ele for her weak AoE.
Of course people will counter with "you need to manage your aggro better", but this is pugs. And even if I managed to have a perfect aggro on the tank, why would the group want to spend the time casting snare and knockdown, followed by AoE, knowing that HM monsters will NOT be scratched by them, and will eventually break free from snare and flee all at once into the poor squishies?
This is why we are stuck with cookie cutter cry of pain and necro gimmicks. abusing soul reaping.
ajc2123
Hey, if you don't like necros, then use Searing flames eles.
Those were a fun change in my vanquishes.
Those were a fun change in my vanquishes.
Abedeus
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MisterB
When foes scatter in hard mode, that just means I get free critical hits on whatever is trying to escape. Or I just call the target, and switch to the next priority target. Try bringing knock down skills; warriors excel at it. I used to find the kiting in hard mode annoying, but now I just take a knock down or snare.
Guild Wars needs more AoE scatter AI. [[Ray of Judgment], I'm looking at you. Also, henchmen and heroes need to learn that standing in AoE is bad. AoE scatter wasn't added purely to limit farming. |
I think monsters should run 3 aggro circles the second someone wands them or casts a spell near them. Or even buffs himself.
Kattar
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ghost Dog
Nevermind this thread might as well be deleted, nobody even reads the posts unless a troll posted it or it's 3 lines long due to lack of thought.
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