My post in a different thread raised a question I want to ask people publically..
BUT FIRST A DISCLAIMER: I am talking PvE only, and keep your imbagon/meta opinions in the closet. None of this "no because I have imbagon" stuff.
I remember one of Anet's reasons behind not buffing the motivation line -too- much is that backline, 80 armor characters shouldn't have that much power.
Would you take a nerf to paragon's armor (from say 80 to 70) if it meant better and more widely usable skills in command and Motivation?
If not (or even if), What nerfs do YOU think would be fair enough to make to balance paragons if they did change the overall functionality of paragon skills in PvE?
By overall functionality, I am referring MAINLY to a lot of the skills that are useless with AI and used tactically in PvP (most of the IMS skills), the recharge of a lot of the widely usable motivation chants, and skills that are too 'specific' in PvE to be worth it ([Lyric of Zeal for instance, because heroes/henches, and even players rarely use signets save mesmers/necros).
It's come to my understanding that what makes it difficult with Dervishes and Paragons is they don't have as many skills as the base and Factions professions, so the skills that they DO have should tend to be generally usable. Dervishes accomplish this very well, whereas paragons tend to lack.
Paragon balancing
Axel Zinfandel
JoeKnowMo
I'd welcome the nerf if it meant more variety in para builds instead of imbagon 24/7.
The problem with paras, imo, that makes balancing them tough, is that they affect the entire party with shouts/chants. An alternative would be to make most chants/shouts affect target ally and nearby allies.
Although this would probably reduce the dps of paras, it would allow for more intelligent play instead of spamming shouts/chants upon recharge. If chants/shouts affect only target and nearby allies, their power could be increased and their recharge could be reduced. Due to their limited effect, targeted chants/shouts could affect the next 1-3 skills/attacks/signets/etc. Targeted chants could also heal or buff for bigger numbers.
As far as the specialized shouts/chants go (lyrics, choruses) I would just buff their overall effect or duration or number of skills affected along with the above change.
For example:
Lyric of zeal - For 15s, target and nearby allies gain 1..5 energy for the next 1..3 signets that they use.
Never Surrender - (5e, 10s recharge) For 10s, target and nearby allies gain +1..5 health regeneration (regardless of health level).
Ballad of Restoration (10e, 10s recharge) For 10s, target and nearby allies gain 15..63 health the next 1..3 times they take damage.
Leadership would need to be tweaked so that you gain 1..5 energy for the first ally targeted by your shout/chant and +1e for every ally after that capped by your leadership attribute.
The problem with paras, imo, that makes balancing them tough, is that they affect the entire party with shouts/chants. An alternative would be to make most chants/shouts affect target ally and nearby allies.
Although this would probably reduce the dps of paras, it would allow for more intelligent play instead of spamming shouts/chants upon recharge. If chants/shouts affect only target and nearby allies, their power could be increased and their recharge could be reduced. Due to their limited effect, targeted chants/shouts could affect the next 1-3 skills/attacks/signets/etc. Targeted chants could also heal or buff for bigger numbers.
As far as the specialized shouts/chants go (lyrics, choruses) I would just buff their overall effect or duration or number of skills affected along with the above change.
For example:
Lyric of zeal - For 15s, target and nearby allies gain 1..5 energy for the next 1..3 signets that they use.
Never Surrender - (5e, 10s recharge) For 10s, target and nearby allies gain +1..5 health regeneration (regardless of health level).
Ballad of Restoration (10e, 10s recharge) For 10s, target and nearby allies gain 15..63 health the next 1..3 times they take damage.
Leadership would need to be tweaked so that you gain 1..5 energy for the first ally targeted by your shout/chant and +1e for every ally after that capped by your leadership attribute.
Luminarus
Its PvE they could revert all paragon nerfs since NF release and they wouldnt be any more OP then they are currently, so I dont get what the big whoop is?
They also did essentially get their armor nerfed to 60, through [Aggressive Refrain]. Even in pvp, its just the power of unremovable party wide buffs that causes the problem.
They also did essentially get their armor nerfed to 60, through [Aggressive Refrain]. Even in pvp, its just the power of unremovable party wide buffs that causes the problem.
Lishy
"The Power is Yours!" (PvE)
Increased duration to 1...5 seconds. Increased regeneration to 0..2..3
Increased duration to 1...5 seconds. Increased regeneration to 0..2..3
Axel Zinfandel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kain Fz
"The Power is Yours!" (PvE)
Increased duration to 1...5 seconds. Increased regeneration to 0..2..3 I had a perfect idea for this skill a while back
"The Power is Yours!" (PvE)
for 1..5..6 seconds, Allies within earshot gain 0...1...1 Energy regeneration. This skill stacks up to 3 times
Increased duration to 1...5 seconds. Increased regeneration to 0..2..3 I had a perfect idea for this skill a while back
"The Power is Yours!" (PvE)
for 1..5..6 seconds, Allies within earshot gain 0...1...1 Energy regeneration. This skill stacks up to 3 times
Reverend Dr
The biggest problem is chant stacking.
If running one paragon becomes viable(a standard build, not imbagon), then running more will end up being overpowered.
From that viewpoint it doesn't really matter if the paragons have 80 armor 60 armor or 20 armor.
What the paragon needs (all of the expansion classes) is what it won't get, a complete redesign.
If running one paragon becomes viable(a standard build, not imbagon), then running more will end up being overpowered.
From that viewpoint it doesn't really matter if the paragons have 80 armor 60 armor or 20 armor.
What the paragon needs (all of the expansion classes) is what it won't get, a complete redesign.
smilingscar
Quote:
"Leadership: For every 5 ranks of leadership your shouts and chants may stack with one additional shout or chant (to a maximum of three)." (would 6 be better than 5? not sure...)
I think energy gain should be addressed as well, it's been the source of too many nerfs. I suggest making Leadership like expertise, reducing the energy cost of shouts and chants, and then providing energy when a shout or chant ends prematurely. This would serve as a way of rewarding certain shouts or chants for doing their job and triggering effects.
Though I do like the idea to make shouts targeted AoE effects. That might be better for promoting active play.
AtomicMew
Paragons are actually quite weak in PvE besides the imbagon, ofc. If A.net wants to see variety in paragon builds, they first need to nerf SY! somehow.
Secondly, unstrippable doesnt mean crap in PvE since mobs don't know priority, anyway. You're still taking monk buffs and other enchantments and those get stripped just like everyone else. Also, the damage output of a paragon is pretty weak. I'd estimate it's ~1/3 of compared to MS/DB.
Secondly, unstrippable doesnt mean crap in PvE since mobs don't know priority, anyway. You're still taking monk buffs and other enchantments and those get stripped just like everyone else. Also, the damage output of a paragon is pretty weak. I'd estimate it's ~1/3 of compared to MS/DB.
Lishy
traversc, Ms/DB is one of the worst things to compare to, by the way. It has some of the biggest single target output in the game.
The damage per 10 seconds is insane. If Paragon has 1/3 of it, then quite frankly, that's a good thing!
The damage per 10 seconds is insane. If Paragon has 1/3 of it, then quite frankly, that's a good thing!
