New Type of Scam: Nicholas Gifts - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

angela faye

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2007

R/

17 May 2009 at 18:29 - 1

Today, a monk was trying to scam ppl with Nicholas gifts from pre in Great Temple Am d1. He put his ad as "WTS Nicholas gifts 5k/each". Since this is in post, so 99% ppl would think that gift means gifts of the traveler. So did I, I was getting my z-quest reward atm and saw his ad, thought 5k/each is a good deal cuz most ppl buy and sell them for 7-8k/each. Then..............

This screen shoot will tell you what happened next:

Good thing is I have played in pre for almost a year and knew those gifts the first day they were introduced into pre, so obviously I wont fall into his trap...

But for those ppl who don't, please be aware of these new kind of gifts scam!

Interesting thing is that monk still insist that that's not scam cuz he can sell his stuff for whatever price he want...

Nochtflamir

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2007

[Lone]

W/

17 May 2009 at 18:32 - 2

lol...white vs green, easy catch, unless you aren't paying attention, then you deserve to get ripped off...people been trying this since Nicholas appeared in post though.

MisterB

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2005

Planet Earth, Sol system, Milky Way galaxy

[ban]

W/

17 May 2009 at 18:34 - 3

This is not new. Scammers have done this ever since Nicholas went post. Technically, they can claim it's not a scam. They do in fact offer gifts from Nicholas. People just need to read.

exploiter

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2008

ign Punk Isnt Dead

R/

17 May 2009 at 18:38 - 4

Quote:

Originally Posted by angela faye

Since this is in post, so 99% ppl would think that gift means gifts of the traveler.

lawl people would think...nothing reportable, hes not saying they are traveler

thedarkmarine

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

17 May 2009 at 18:51 - 5

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nochtflamir

lol...white vs green, easy catch, unless you aren't paying attention, then you deserve to get ripped off...people been trying this since Nicholas appeared in post though.

Casuals deserve to be scammed?

take_me

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Mar 2006

Europe

Country Roads [HOME]

17 May 2009 at 18:57 - 6

Been going on for weeks.
Many sellers even advertise with WTS Gifts of the HUNTSMAN 5k/each, but seems like people don't read careful enough and just see the "WTS Gifts for 5k/each"-part.

HawkofStorms

Hall Hero

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/

17 May 2009 at 19:12 - 7

Heck, its not even Casuals who are being scammed. Its anybody who hasn't been in pre in the last year. If you made your Prophecies characters 3 years ago, you don't know anything about the presearing gifts since its a relatively new thing.

Mr.Kotte

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Me/

17 May 2009 at 19:23 - 8

Way to fail at crossing out names. Good find though.

Earth

Always Outnumbered

Join Date: Jul 2006

17 May 2009 at 19:28 - 9

How is this a scam?

If he would say "selling gifts of the traveler", then sure, it would be a scam. But he's not saying that. He is in fact not specifying what gifts he is selling, so saying this is a scam is wrong.

Abedeus

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jan 2007

Niflheim

R/

17 May 2009 at 19:35 - 10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earth

How is this a scam?

If he would say "selling gifts of the traveler", then sure, it would be a scam. But he's not saying that. He is in fact not specifying what gifts he is selling, so saying this is a scam is wrong.

It's worse than Frozen Ectoplasm scam. Because both Gifts start with "Gift of the", both look the same, only colors are a bit different.

Earth

Always Outnumbered

Join Date: Jul 2006

17 May 2009 at 19:44 - 11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

It's worse than Frozen Ectoplasm scam. Because both Gifts start with "Gift of the", both look the same, only colors are a bit different.

I can't tell if that's sarcasm or not.

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

17 May 2009 at 19:45 - 12

Gifts really could use a bit different item icon.

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

17 May 2009 at 19:45 - 13

He said he's selling Nicholas gifts, and he's selling Nicholas gifts. Where's the scam here?

tadevil

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2006

Presearing Ascalon. ;D

Uhh

Mo/

17 May 2009 at 19:47 - 14

Sorry for off topic but I lol'd when I saw the screenshot, trying to cover up your name and the traders name and missing places, both names are still perfectly visible.

Back on topic anyway, the gifts are a different colour this scam is poor and a failcopter that's already crashed and burned.

Fril Estelin

So Serious...

Join Date: Jan 2007

London

Nerfs Are [WHAK]

E/

17 May 2009 at 19:50 - 15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earth

How is this a scam?

If he would say "selling gifts of the traveler", then sure, it would be a scam. But he's not saying that. He is in fact not specifying what gifts he is selling, so saying this is a scam is wrong.

A pre gift sold at 5k in GtoB is a scam, because these gifts are definitely not worth 5k (see rewards). The guy is obviously trying to exploit the fact that the name sounds similar and even the appearance is similar if you look too quickly. And these gifts are quite "fashionable".

Scamming is more an intent than an illegal action (some email scams are perfectly legit, but it's a subtle play on words). I have little doubt that the guy is in GtoB from per with these gifts at a price exactly below the price of the post gifts just by mistake.

exploiter

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2008

ign Punk Isnt Dead

R/

17 May 2009 at 20:01 - 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

A pre gift sold at 5k in GtoB is a scam, because these gifts are definitely not worth 5k

overpricing =/= scamming
would you consider running CoF for 3k when the usual price is 2k scamming?

enter_the_zone

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2007

R/

17 May 2009 at 20:05 - 17

Bah, that's scamming, but at least it's stupid scamming. Guy yesterday tried the old : cancel, cancel, "oop's full", storage, offer 10k instead of 100k scam. So I just cancelled. Bear in mind, I was partaking of what I call Drunken Guildwars, which involves being utterly, motherlessly smash drunk while playing. Seriously, if you fall for that shite it's more or less your own fault, not that I don't sympathise or would ever try something like it. Hell, "powertrading" is little better than scamming to me, though many disagree, as is their right.

I got "scammed" for a whole 3k the other day by some douchebag "running" the charged blackness quest. 1) I made him use the essence before I paid, and 2) that was char 1 of 9 I wanted to get run. Way I see it, nice way to screw yourself.

On the flip side, got an awesome run of SoO today, though the runner was getting annoyed with his lag resulting in dying a total of about 7 times, 5 at Fendi. As I say, you should see me run CoF...there's a reason I don't take passengers

BadgerznPie

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2008

Mo/

17 May 2009 at 20:11 - 18

Meh. It's pretty obvious to me even though I haven't been to pre in a while. But if it gets bad, they could change the text of the post gifts to green. Although I actually wonder if that would be enough...

Ariena Najea

Silence and Motion

Join Date: Jul 2006

Buffalo NY

New Horizon [NH]

17 May 2009 at 20:23 - 19

I have personally come across sellers who are claiming to be selling Gifts of the Traveler, but will put up Gifts of the Huntsman in trade. This is a scam, while someone offering the pre Gifts with a WTS Gifts 5k is not.

This type of scam has been around for... long before I started playing

BenjZee

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2006

The Overacheivers [Club]

Mo/

17 May 2009 at 21:00 - 20

The point is, it avoids being a scam by saying NICHOLAS GIFT..which could mean either of them. Otherwise they could just say they were sellin travellet gifts for 5k each

manager

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2006

Portugal

Cold Black Eyes

W/

17 May 2009 at 21:43 - 21

It's obvious that the intent is to trick people(aware or not) into thinking he's selling the non-Pre gifts. If that's not the definition of scam, i don't know what it is.

CyberNigma

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2006

San Antonio, TX

W/R

17 May 2009 at 21:57 - 22

heh, this woman's boss never said it was a car.. btw, they did settle and she did get a car..

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3260/...0cf3926f_o.jpg

If the world worked the way some people think, those of us that are either stronger or smarter than others would pretty much do whatever we want (in some respects we do). Luckily there are people like the op that feel the need to at least help those not so fortunate know to watch out for something like this.

It definitely can give a false impression or mislead another play. I'd say the motive at those prices for that product is probably to give a false impression, which can be done without lying - or saying anything for that matter. If I fell for it, I'd be pretty pissed and probably feel pretty stupid, but that doesn't mean I'd condone doing that to someone just because they're stupid. Being stupid or weak is no excuse to be taken advantage of. If you think it is, you probably just don't know how far down the totem pole in either case you actually are :-)

EDIT: btw, I was just going off of the wiki and the definitions or deceive/mislead to throw in input. I doubt it's against the rules, but then again ANet can easily decide what is against the spirit of the game - they have in the past.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Scam

of course taking advantage of anything is relative to each person as to whether it is done within acceptable limits (difference between good marketing skills on one end and a ponzi scheme on the other).

own age myname

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2007

Minnesota

[TAS]

R/

17 May 2009 at 22:10 - 23

This isn't a scam. If someone said "Hey, you wanna buy this starter sword for 10k?" and you buy it, it's not a scam, just overpricing.

By now, I know what the difference is, been trading both of them around a lot lately, the green name factor for the Traveler's Gift's also helps.

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by manager

It's obvious that the intent is to trick people(aware or not) into thinking he's selling the non-Pre gifts. If that's not the definition of scam, i don't know what it is.

But you just never know. It's not 100% that he is trying to trick people. But yes, it's most likely he is trying to trick someone.

thedarkmarine

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

17 May 2009 at 22:19 - 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by manager

It's obvious that the intent is to trick people(aware or not) into thinking he's selling the non-Pre gifts. If that's not the definition of scam, i don't know what it is.

That's exactly it. The rest of you are just letting him off because of a technicality. I'm not giving the benefit of the doubt in this case.

Esprit

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

Dvd Forums [DVDF]

E/

17 May 2009 at 22:29 - 25

It may not be a scam technically, but it would seem the player is selling the gifts under false pretenses. The player assumes buyers are thinking they are Post Nicholas gifts and thus will buy them because of it.

True, it's the buyer's fault. But that's like saying the greasy car's salesman who primed a junked car to run long enough until it's off the lot has a halo above his head and is completely innocent.

It's underhanded and worth making players aware of it.

Bug John

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

17 May 2009 at 22:30 - 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by own age myname

This isn't a scam. If someone said "Hey, you wanna buy this starter sword for 10k?" and you buy it, it's not a scam, just overpricing.

By now, I know what the difference is, been trading both of them around a lot lately, the green name factor for the Traveler's Gift's also helps.

But you just never know. It's not 100% that he is trying to trick people. But yes, it's most likely he is trying to trick someone.

of course they are trying to trick people

they even call them "nicholas gifts", which is voluntarly confusing, in order to be able to say "it's just over pricing, not a scam"

those ***** seriously deserve a ban, not for taking others money, just for being pathetic

"oh, I scammed 100k out of those idiots, look how smart I am", yes, you spend your time trying to abuse people on an online game, how glorious, hope you get a perma ban so you can come QQ here

[DE]

Hugs and Kisses

Join Date: Oct 2005

Scars Meadows

17 May 2009 at 22:30 - 27

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberNigma

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3260/...0cf3926f_o.jpg

That is awesome.

Axeman002

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2008

A/Mo

18 May 2009 at 00:49 - 28

if we went on technicalities...no one would be a scammer due to smallprint of 'it was your fault'...to scam is to obtain something via disception or cheating and i never seen any huntsmen presents for sale until the traveller arrived...so he is infact trying to trick u, so this to me falls under being classed as a scam (someone tried it with me today).

The Air Revenger

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2008

Looking For TA Guild!

W/

18 May 2009 at 01:55 - 29

i dont see anything wrong with this, they are making money and i for one give them a pat on the back, you guys are made because you have fallen for a scam or are made you diddnt think of it first, i for one feel so great when i scam someone its the one of the only reason i play the game anymore

EDIT: just seared 10 gifts sold them for 5k really fast, looks like i need to spend my pre money on some gifts.

CyberNigma

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2006

San Antonio, TX

W/R

18 May 2009 at 02:36 - 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Air Revenger

i dont see anything wrong with this, they are making money and i for one give them a pat on the back, you guys are made because you have fallen for a scam or are made you diddnt think of it first, i for one feel so great when i scam someone its the one of the only reason i play the game anymore

EDIT: just seared 10 gifts sold them for 5k really fast, looks like i need to spend my pre money on some gifts.

I don't know which is worse: the fact that you try to scam people (your words, not mine) or that apparently your life sucks so bad that scamming people in online games is one of the things that you do to feel 'so great'. I don't harbor any ill will towards you but rather I feel bad for you and pity you. If you need friends I'm sure some of the people here on this board may live near you and would be willing to help you out.

It's amazing how bad things can be for people in today's world. Even someone that doesn't see anything wrong with scamming people should at least be able to have a full enough life that something like this wouldn't be the highlight of it.

anyhow, good luck in your guild search. That may be a good start for you.

Lhim

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2007

Rt/

18 May 2009 at 03:06 - 31

"It's not a scam."
"It's a scam."
"No, it isn't."
"Yes, it is."
....

Thanks to OP for making some of us, who might have not been in pre for a long time, aware of this type of thing (scam, subtle wordplay, whatever you want to call it)...

Kook~NBK~

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2005

A little chalet outside Drok's

Natural Born Killaz

18 May 2009 at 03:22 - 32

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Air Revenger

i dont see anything wrong with this, they are making money and i for one give them a pat on the back, you guys are made because you have fallen for a scam or are made you diddnt think of it first, i for one feel so great when i scam someone its the one of the only reason i play the game anymore

EDIT: just seared 10 gifts sold them for 5k really fast, looks like i need to spend my pre money on some gifts.

Even a (insert appropriate adjective here) scammer admits it a scam. And no, most people who are upset about it aren't mad because they fell for this garbage or because they didn't think of it first. What makes people mad is that there are douchebags in the game pulling this crap.

pamelf

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Australia

Lost Templars [LoTe]

Me/Mo

18 May 2009 at 08:31 - 33

It's not a scam, but it's definitely taking advantage. Thanks to the OP to making us aware though.

Tom Swift

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2007

18 May 2009 at 13:25 - 34

Quote:

Originally Posted by pamelf

It's not a scam, but it's definitely taking advantage. Thanks to the OP to making us aware though.

agree

I would hope A-Net will shortly get around to making the icons appear very different from each other.

exploiter

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2008

ign Punk Isnt Dead

R/

18 May 2009 at 13:43 - 35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bug John

those ***** seriously deserve a ban, not for taking others money, just for being pathetic

if that was bannable, GW would be empty

Nodakim

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2008

Hrvatska

N/Me

18 May 2009 at 14:02 - 36

It is worse then scamming.

Nukey

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2006

18 May 2009 at 14:07 - 37

You guys would make good lawyers; finding technicalities. These people are obviously trying to take advantage of players who think they're getting the Gifts of the Traveler. Did you see anyone in Kamadan trying to sell these before Nicholas the Traveler came to Post-Searing? Likely not, and definitely not for that price.

As for people who say that everyone should know, not everyone starts the game in Prophecies.

Oh, and The Air Revenger ... Karama's a bitch.

angela faye

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2007

R/

18 May 2009 at 14:58 - 38

For those ppl who still think this is NOT a scam, pleas look at this:

Player A: WTS ectos 6k/each.
Player B: I'll buy 10.
Player A: ok

After trade was done...

Player B: wtf, Frozen Ectoplasm?!!!

Player A went offline.

This is a very similar way ppl used in the old days to scam ppl as this monk using the vague words "Nicholas gifts". One of my friend almost fell into this ecto trap, and he reported the person, the scammer got banned!

But according to some of you, player A didn't do anything wrong, rihgt? He was selling an "ecto"...

nkuvu

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2005

18 May 2009 at 15:02 - 39

Disagree with the thread title. Finding two things that look similar in game, and trying to sell one off while pretending it's something else... that's not a new thing (call it scam, unethical, whatever. The exact terminology isn't very important). Selling Ice as a Sapphire, or Lilac Eyes as Rubies -- those are even listed on the wiki page about scamming.

This is just a new item to do the same thing over again.

For the record, I wouldn't personally call this a scam, but I do think it's highly unethical.

Edit for clarity:
Personal opinion:
Selling Lilac Eyes as Rubies? Scam, misrepresenting the item sold.
Buying black dye in pre-searing for hundreds of gold? Unethical, no misrepresentation, but it does depend on the player not knowing the value of the dye.
Selling a quest item as another quest item ("Letter to Mom", for example, sold as the letter for the "Captured Son" quest)? Scam, misrepresentation.
Selling a pre-searing Gift as a post-searing Gift? Unethical, no actual misrepresentation (given the wording of the OP).

But again, I don't think the exact terminology is too important.

angela faye

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2007

R/

18 May 2009 at 15:08 - 40

Quote:

Originally Posted by nkuvu

Disagree with the thread title. Finding two things that look similar in game, and trying to sell one off while pretending it's something else... that's not a new thing (call it scam, unethical, whatever. The exact terminology isn't very important). Selling Ice as a Sapphire, or Lilac Eyes as Rubies -- those are even listed on the wiki page about scamming.

This is just a new item to do the same thing over again.

For the record, I wouldn't personally call this a scam, but I do think it's highly unethical.

From the official Guild Wars Wiki.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gift_of_the_Traveler

Under Notes. Quote: "Beware of scams, some players may try to trade you a Gift of the Huntsman instead of Gift of the Traveler."

Quote:

Originally Posted by nkuvu

Selling Lilac Eyes as Rubies? Scam, misrepresenting the item sold.
Selling a quest item as another quest item ("Letter to Mom", for example, sold as the letter for the "Captured Son" quest)? Scam, misrepresentation.
Selling a pre-searing Gift as a post-searing Gift? Unethical, no actual misrepresentation (given the wording of the OP).

But again, I don't think the exact terminology is too important.

I didn't see anything different among those, they were all trying to sell one off while pretending it's something else, but you called the first two as scam but the last one unethical?