Idea for new pve team build

Probably throw in a ritualist spamming greater dwarf weapon and splinter weapons and have them spec into necro curses for a mark of pain to throw in. Would be a great deal of damage.

4 Hundred Blades Warriors backed by 4 Smite Monks with Jesus Beam.

Each monk Maintains Strenght of Honor on a Warrior and they kill stuff.

Monk Bars will each carry a Heal party as well as smite hex and smite condy and a couple of other randome heals. I'd say Judges Insight too, but I think that would become way too energy intensive for the monks, though they could go Mo/E with GoLE. Of course Vig Spirit would work well on the monk bar aswell.

Whirlwind would be a must on the Warrior bars unless of course they are heros. Use Sever, Gash and Sun and Moon.

Although, this bar, backed by a smiter rolls out emense amounts of damage and adds a tad of support:

R/W
12 Axe
15 ish Expertise

[Dwarven Stability][Lightning Reflexes][Triple Chop][Cyclone Axe][Whirlwind Attack][Save Yourselves][Distracting Strike][Distracting Chop]

Of Course you could have "Save Yourselves" on all the Warriro bars aswell, that would be rather Imba and make up for the slightly weakend Monk heal bars.

Great Dwarf Weapon Is a fine idea, perhaps all the Monks roll that too, toss that on their respective Warriors and all go Mo/N and BR each other all day.

shadowform also has the 33% dmg reduction. remember that.

Seems kinda like having 4 dedicated smiters running 1 enchant each would be pretty pointless. You could have 1 bond them all then cast say essence bond on a war for energy for themself, plus blessed signet to get energy up to be able to cast an RoJ. Then you could free up other slots to be support such as n/rt with orders and splinter weapon or mark of pain or something.

Just don't think your gonna need 4 dedicated smiters devoting a skill slot for something that can be put on 1 character. Heck get an e/mo with smite bond instead of protection and be an infuse healer while your at it.

My only feeling is that casters/ ranged enemies will be a pain. Wars can take out melee clumps by getting together, but the ranged ones won't. So it'd be interesting to see the damage when it comes to higher end pve with monks and ranged characters.

All the casters could bring ice imps as potential meat shields/ damage/ snares against monsters to try and prevent them from getting past the warriors/ melee damage characters.

That could potentially help the case of the caster in this group, but i think the most reliable way to include some of these skills which necros and rits possess would be to have one or two of the permas in the group use them, still causing damage with there scythes due to mark of pain, splinter weapon, strenght of honor, and order of the vampire, and tremendoulsy helping the damage of all the permas.

I don't know, don't really like the idea of shadowform sins to deal the damage. Scythe sins with asuran scan/ whatever or warrior's endurance scythes or some form of damage dealing with someone to cast watch yourself. Could bring say 1 earth shaker warrior, 1 ms/db sin with save yourselves, then whatever else a scythe sin or scythe war. Defense should be fine with knockdowns and save yourselves. While still having good damage.

Shadow form just seems too limited a/me or a/e= no good scythe attack skills which takes away a lot more power. It would work, but it doesn't seem necessary to make them all shadowform scythes when you can still deal with a bit of healing and dish out a ton more damage.

Well i think you should check out samerkablamer post at the top of this thread, fourth post down or so... Anyways, there is already a build which is like the one you described. If your arguement is that mine is inferior to that one, I would really like to find some ppl willing to test this out with me, 6 A/D and 2 monks, I've actually posted the team on PvXWiki: http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_Perma_Scythe_Way

Like i said earlier, the pros of this build is shadow form sins can always keep on going, this team never really needs to stop. It seems that some ppl feel the con would be that there is not enough damage, but as I explained earlier, theoretically with 6 sins this could do quite alot of damage, like I said it would be nice to test it.

Well with 5 RoJ you could do the same thing. 5-6 damage dealers of any kind can do a lot of damage. Your main thing is using shadowform's ability to stop hexes/ spells/ conditions from affecting them. However, you could get by with one save yourselves spammer and still being able to take care of hexes/ conditions (avatar of dwayna dervishes anyone?). Seems interesting, but doesn't seem like it would out do other damage type builds.

Actually with 5-6 rojs you cant do the same thing... first your team has to wait for the sin to aggro, then the groups breaks up... This build is clearly designed as to not use the tank aggro team nukes formula.


I think it would also be faster. look at this:http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:A/D_Perma_Shadow_Scythe

look at the varients section. 6 perma scythe sins bringing some of those pve only skills would be insane damage. One could bring Ebon Battle standard, they could also use I am the Strongest, light of deldimor... Just check it out. All that damage plus strength of honor with +25 damage and order of the vampire with +13 life stealing.... I think thats plenty damage, and this group woudl run alot more quickly and smoothly than traditional tank/nuke groups

Your comparing an entire build with scythe skills/ support skills to 1 RoJ. RoJ monks can bring cry of pain, and other skills to increase damage. They could bring arcane echo to improve damage just as well. Also, your relying on using wards and stuff that would require "balling up" just like a tank and spank. Unless you plan on using light of deldrimor on 1 lone enemy.

The thing is if you stack up any physical damage dealer you can get decent damage. The problem is, will it be worth it to stack up on shadowform sins when you could get higher damage output and just require a healing monk?

My only argument is that for most places, shadow form wouldn't be needed and could result in a better elite/ build to deal more damage.

I am also going to say, if builds could be faster than tank and spank you wouldn't see good guilds and alliances running RoJ/ cryways and completing high end places in insane times.

One thing you have to remember is that tank and spank is the method prefered by most pugs. My problem with it: takes tank a while to ball things up for the nuker, and in the mean time everybody is just standing around. Also, when the sin is finally ready for the nukers, half way through the nuke the enemies decide to break aggro, and go after caters, the whole thing turns into a cluster you know what. Now i'm sure good guilds and alliances have good tanks that dont waste time when it come to aggroing, and good methods for dealing with enemie scatter. Also, remeber samerkablamer post, alot of non pug groups use a build that isn't tank and spank with alot of success. I still feel that my idea would do great damage as it is, doesn't need additional damage which in my opinion would be over kill, and I do not think it would be a hastle for the permas to ball up, for instance, one perma could be the pack leader, and every perma follows him and attacks who he is attacking, would go rather fast i believe, and most enemies group up naturally. The beauty of taking on a smaller group of enemies, 3 or 4, is that they can be killed very fast, and in hm they will not scatter if the group is less than four. I don't think that the sins would have trouble getting enemies they are attacking within there ebon battle standard, and depending on how good the players are, they could coordinate the use of ebon battle standard so they will always have one when they need it in a new location. Also, ebon battle standard is just one of the optional variants for the build, and is not completely needed, as there are other pve skills that will help damage.

As far as discussing our points any further, I don't really think its needed. I would really like to actually test this build, to once and for all determine how successful or non successful it really is. If you would like to test it with me send me a message. I am also going to post a notice in the PUG board looking for people to try it.

There is more to Guild Wars than Perma Sins ya know.

If u want to have perma sins with scythes than imo dont use[order of the vampire] since [aura of holy might] on the perma sins would do far greater dmg imo.

You could completly forget the Shadowform... imba + physicals will work fine =D

Majority of the mobs DONT have enchant removals... and if you get a team of like Crit scythes, it works fine. My guild has completed FoW without using Cry, Roj or Shadowform in under an hour, with our own version of Physical way.

Something you guys have to remember (batno mercy) is shadow form, and any other enchantment stacked on the sin while shadow form is up, cannot be removed by normal spells, therefore shadow form removal is EXTREMELY RARE. If your gonna do physical way, and you want your damage and healing/protection to be enchantment based, then shadow form is the best way to go. Also, I would like to point out that Imbagons are successful in pve, but +100 armor does nothing against armor ignoring damage. And if you think that physical way with dervs using vow of strength would work, first vow of strength is gonna get removed like crazy, they arent really gonna have that much more damage then the build I proposed, and healing is gonna be a huge issue. I would like to see a team of vow of strength dervishes fight through an area where monsters spam Spiteful Spirit, like FoW. Perma Sythe sins rely on only 2 skills on their bar for protection, the rest is pure damage.... Also, somebody talked about shadow form gimping your energy... If you understand the build, which does require an essence, these sins have wonderful energy management, as they have high chances for critical strikes, and gain energy with each crit, and scythe can hit up to 3 foes in one attack, plus 33% increase attack speed just means more critical strikes, I also believe they use a scythe attack which gives them more energy, so that statement is clearly unwarrented.

I like the idea, but i think the second bonder is useless, it would be better a battery necro (or D/N) and the bonder with Soh. I dont like life barrier, normaly they will get killed anyway if they loss SF, and losing SF means that you cant farm the area (or sins are bad)