Hi,
I really think Anet is missing a trick here in keeping people interested in this game until GW2 becomes a reality.
Before I start i would point out I play PvP and PvE and obviously gettting the game close to balance is important, especially in PvP.
Having said that, how would you, the players, feel about a really big skill shake up. I mean, lets take all the skills that no one uses and buff them in some way. Obviously this means that some are going to become very powerful and used in ways the developers never realised, so we give it a couple of weeks then re-evaluate the situation.
To me this would shake up this game dramatically, and inject new life into a game where the same skills are on every bar.
The effects on PvP would be dramatic as new team builds come into play.
High Level PvP appears on the surface to be dying a slow death. Lets Put some new skills out there, not do too much testing in house and let the players beta test them. I think our input is sometimes undervalued by Anet in terms of skill balancing.
I suppose what I am trying to say is it better to have a different type of imbalance or stay the way we are now?
Big skill shake up
Cab Tastic
acerbity
you're not from 'round these parts, are you?
Shayne Hawke
I do not want GW to have an infinite arsenal of powerful skills.
Updating the skills so that we can go from one imbalance to another? Yeah, there's a whole lot of progress being made there.
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Originally Posted by Cab Tastic
I suppose what I am trying to say is it better to have a different type of imbalance or stay the way we are now?
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RotteN
Seeing as skill balances are slow and usually miss the biggest issues more than they actually fix them, i'd say making more imbalance is a pretty stupid move.
Joak
If GW had an infinite arsenal of powerful skills, it would be balanced. If every skill is good, none is bad, and in turn there can't be no good since there is no bad. And with more powerful skills the meta can't become centralized around one build, since many other skills are as good or better/worse in certain circumstances. I'd say make all skills OP in some way!
/signed
/signed
Fay Vert
GW desperately needs a big skill shake up.
One really simple solution is to let the players balance them by selection. If ANet simply look at how often a skill is put on a build, then nerf (slightly) the ones that are used a lot and buff the ones that are used the least.
Repeat every month and the game will be kept dynamic and ALL skills kept in close balance as decided on by the entire population of players.
One really simple solution is to let the players balance them by selection. If ANet simply look at how often a skill is put on a build, then nerf (slightly) the ones that are used a lot and buff the ones that are used the least.
Repeat every month and the game will be kept dynamic and ALL skills kept in close balance as decided on by the entire population of players.
Icy The Mage
The problem with buffing/nerfing/changing a whole bunch of skills at once is that it will be hard to comprehend how all the new skills interact with eachother. If something goes totally out of imbalance and that's the only thing people use in that specific area, then A-Net will have no idea what caused it, and have no clue on how to fix it.
Antares Ascending
The focus is on completing GW2. There are very few folks still hammering out upgrades for GW because of this....
That said, if all the skills were equal there would be people complaining that
there is nothing special..boooo...all skills are meh...it doesn't matter what you take.
That said, it is interesting watching a new Meta emerge with some skill buff/changes.
It kinda keeps the game fresh.
That said, if all the skills were equal there would be people complaining that
there is nothing special..boooo...all skills are meh...it doesn't matter what you take.
That said, it is interesting watching a new Meta emerge with some skill buff/changes.
It kinda keeps the game fresh.
Axeman002
i reckon for abit of fun have 1 month skill nerf of every elite pvp/pve and make them all half as powerful..and lock all pve only skills, so they cannot be used (just for 30 days) and see how people at first will hate it...but then use there brain and think of proper builds. woiuld make one interesting month of gameplay lol
Vl Vl D
Why do they need to keep the children happy till Guild Wars 2, Guild Wars is causal game which dosent have to be played to death. Just get a hobby or go Emo.
Massive Impulsa
I do agree that GW needs a big shakeup, but id rather have constant nerfs like now, so that the less used skills will be a choice when the current OP skills are tooned down
Summary; Keep nerfing^^
Summary; Keep nerfing^^
Improvavel
Sincerely the last skill update did create space for different builds in PvP.
We went from the WoH+PnH backline to RCs, WoHs, HB and PnH and we see Mo/W, Mo/E, Mo/A and Mo/Me.
Necros see more and more play.
Mesmers are still there, playing water, PBlock and VoR.
Warriors now went from WE to Eviscerate, Whirling Axe, Devastating hammer, Crippling slashers are back, etc.
I've seen some paras too, from motigons to pure Cruel spear.
Rangers are still mostly Mel Shots, but some Magebane and Crippling shots are around too.
Eles still function as flag runners with their E/Rt EP or as NPC killers with Mblast + distortion.
Rits are still absent and Assassins and Dervs aren't that much better (paragons aren't around that much either but).
I think last update opened more options in terms of builds variety. Now its a question of making Rits, Assassins (only saw a Wastrel's Collapse in obs) and dervs in to the game. Para could see some work too.
We went from the WoH+PnH backline to RCs, WoHs, HB and PnH and we see Mo/W, Mo/E, Mo/A and Mo/Me.
Necros see more and more play.
Mesmers are still there, playing water, PBlock and VoR.
Warriors now went from WE to Eviscerate, Whirling Axe, Devastating hammer, Crippling slashers are back, etc.
I've seen some paras too, from motigons to pure Cruel spear.
Rangers are still mostly Mel Shots, but some Magebane and Crippling shots are around too.
Eles still function as flag runners with their E/Rt EP or as NPC killers with Mblast + distortion.
Rits are still absent and Assassins and Dervs aren't that much better (paragons aren't around that much either but).
I think last update opened more options in terms of builds variety. Now its a question of making Rits, Assassins (only saw a Wastrel's Collapse in obs) and dervs in to the game. Para could see some work too.
aapo
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Originally Posted by Joak
If GW had an infinite arsenal of powerful skills, it would be balanced. If every skill is good, none is bad, and in turn there can't be no good since there is no bad. And with more powerful skills the meta can't become centralized around one build, since many other skills are as good or better/worse in certain circumstances. I'd say make all skills OP in some way!
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Hailey Anne
I personally would like them to just leave the skills alone unless they are completely broken or unused.
Just because people on guru say a skill is bad or needs to be nerfed doesnt make it true.
Ask most of the people(outside your own elitist guilds) and they will say to leave certain skills alone that only a few people here want nerfed.
So just leave them alone.(Im talking about PvE here btw, nerf the crap out of PvP for all I care).
Just because people on guru say a skill is bad or needs to be nerfed doesnt make it true.
Ask most of the people(outside your own elitist guilds) and they will say to leave certain skills alone that only a few people here want nerfed.
So just leave them alone.(Im talking about PvE here btw, nerf the crap out of PvP for all I care).
Second-Strike
I agree, the game needs a new shake up. The last updates there has been no incentive to come back to try something new. When they updated a whole list of underused elite skills that held my attention for a couple months. With these updates there is nothing new to hold my attention, maybe log on once a week. To bring back the old players they need to shake things up, but the people who still continue to play have long attention spans it seems. A forum like this you are only going to get one side as most old players won't check it. We've seen it and done it all already and these updates don't change that. They need to change the way the game is played and skill updates are the best way to do that.
Copenhagen Master
Guildwars needs to do something. I loved playing this game but that Z-quest update, and the recent update in my opinion is crap. I have actually been trying WoW lately, because it has gotten boring same thing over and over again 
Hailey Anne
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Originally Posted by Copenhagen Master
Guildwars needs to do something. I loved playing this game but that Z-quest update, and the recent update in my opinion is crap. I have actually been trying WoW lately, because it has gotten boring same thing over and over again
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But I dont think changing the skills is the shake up we need.
We just need new content period.
Throw some stuff in like FoW/UW in the unused parts.
icedwhitemocha
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Originally Posted by Cab Tastic
Lets Put some new skills out there, not do too much testing in house and let the players beta test them.
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Quote:
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Archress Shayleigh
XP... yeah...
Lishy
As big of work as it may be, I'd really like if anet stopped balancing only 6 skills per update, and instead did at least 25-30.
Heck. Even if it takes them two months. We need skill updates more..
Heck. Even if it takes them two months. We need skill updates more..
FengShuiDove
Two things:
1. The new skill updates in the past year or so have indeed changed the meta game, something which was desired and is now being despised once again because a lack of change. Once again, no matter what skills are changed and how they are changed, there will be a new "best" or "easiest" build to play with great success. Perfect balance, ie, allowing an 8 player team to run whatever they want and be competitive, will never happen. It's just too difficult to get this many skills that balanced. Instead, phase in new skills that are competitive with whatever current meta game exists in any given time period. Allow for diverse play without killing the old style.
2. New styles of gameplay, particularly in PvP. In a 6 man arena, team dynamics and strategy change. Sure, some of the builds will be just as effective in 4, 6, 8, 12 man teams, but others, for example, Dervish [[Wounding Strike] pressure and Assassin chains, become more effective with lower levels where a team cannot concentrate on defensive turtling and still be a legitimate offensive threat. There needs to be some shakeup not only of skills but of what types of competition exists in PvP arenas.
1. The new skill updates in the past year or so have indeed changed the meta game, something which was desired and is now being despised once again because a lack of change. Once again, no matter what skills are changed and how they are changed, there will be a new "best" or "easiest" build to play with great success. Perfect balance, ie, allowing an 8 player team to run whatever they want and be competitive, will never happen. It's just too difficult to get this many skills that balanced. Instead, phase in new skills that are competitive with whatever current meta game exists in any given time period. Allow for diverse play without killing the old style.
2. New styles of gameplay, particularly in PvP. In a 6 man arena, team dynamics and strategy change. Sure, some of the builds will be just as effective in 4, 6, 8, 12 man teams, but others, for example, Dervish [[Wounding Strike] pressure and Assassin chains, become more effective with lower levels where a team cannot concentrate on defensive turtling and still be a legitimate offensive threat. There needs to be some shakeup not only of skills but of what types of competition exists in PvP arenas.
haggus71
They have a Live Team of 4 people working on it. Remember how it was when Izzy was in charge? This is worse.
lord of all tyria
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Originally Posted by icedwhitemocha
oh my god, are you people serious?
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Commander Kanen
I agree, Skill update is needed and has been for a long time. Anet simply made some skills redundant. Anet are lazy with skill updates also. rather than re-work a skill they just nerf it right down to nothing "Smiter's Boon".
snaek
we need more skill updates. however they need to be planned and thought out carefully... randomway can do just as much bad as it can do good.
imo anets balances have already been fairly random... they need to move away from this, not towards this.
imo anets balances have already been fairly random... they need to move away from this, not towards this.
Gun Pierson
Skill updates? GW became too soft since we have Linsey (even though she seems to be hard working and full of passion for the job). Zquests, Nicholas the traveller and the cutest wallpaper evar, tonics and all the other dressing up of this game. What's next, feeding your mini so it will make cute sounds? It's time we see some more balls again. 
Wasn't this game about skills and killing things with them?
Wasn't this game about skills and killing things with them?
Calvar Draveir
I think some people are missing the point of Z-quests: to provide better incentive for doing missions and exploring areas again. It's also to make tomes more accesible, and add storage slots. (Equipment packs) And seriously, there's been a whole bunch of fun stuff with the update. Account-wide HoM= win.
Gun Pierson
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Originally Posted by Calvar Draveir
I think some people are missing the point of Z-quests: to provide better incentive for doing missions and exploring areas again. It's also to make tomes more accesible, and add storage slots. (Equipment packs) And seriously, there's been a whole bunch of fun stuff with the update. Account-wide HoM= win.
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From a developer's view it's brilliant as they don't have the manpower to come with actual content. The good news is they're looking for two extra members to strengthen the live team. It's on her wiki page. Not that we have to expect miracles, but still.
I agree the update had good stuff in it and account wide HoM was one of them, but pretty late, like with a lot of stuff. The question is do we really need more of the cute type of fun stuff or would it be better to polish some of the core gamemechanics in this game, the skills?
A11Eur0
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Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke
I do not want GW to have an infinite arsenal of powerful skills.
Updating the skills so that we can go from one imbalance to another? Yeah, there's a whole lot of progress being made there. |
kedde
Another utterly terrible thread sees the light.
Nerf this thread to dead please.
Nerf this thread to dead please.
Lonesamurai
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gun Pierson
Skill updates? GW became too soft since we have Linsey (even though she seems to be hard working and full of passion for the job). Zquests, Nicholas the traveller and the cutest wallpaper evar, tonics and all the other dressing up of this game. What's next, feeding your mini so it will make cute sounds? It's time we see some more balls again.
Wasn't this game about skills and killing things with them? |
Gun Pierson
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Originally Posted by Lonesamurai
Linsey has been around doing the job for quite sometime...
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Fay Vert
OP didn't suggest making lots of powerful skills/builds, he just acknowledged that was a risk and that re-evaluation was needed.
This thread needs to remain open as long as people retain closed minds.
This thread needs to remain open as long as people retain closed minds.
Vanquisher
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Originally Posted by Joak
If GW had an infinite arsenal of powerful skills, it would be balanced. If every skill is good, none is bad, and in turn there can't be no good since there is no bad. And with more powerful skills the meta can't become centralized around one build, since many other skills are as good or better/worse in certain circumstances. I'd say make all skills OP in some way!
/signed |
Aeon221
The unbalanced nature of the skills in the game and the team builds that maximize this broken-ness -- in game theory terms, the presence of a few dominant strategies and many dominated ones -- reduces the strategy matrix by several orders of magnitude and therefore makes it possible for players to maintain beliefs about what other players bring to the table. In effect, it makes possible a Bayesian game, where players hold certain beliefs about their potential opponents. Those beliefs make strategy and counters possible in build terms.
In other words, if the game were perfectly balanced it would become strategically uninteresting, as the dominant strategy would be, essentially, a team build composed of bars selected on a whim*.
An example of a perfectly balanced game is Tic-Tac-Toe, wherein the end result is always a draw (unless you're playing an opponent who makes a mistake). An example of an imperfectly balanced game, in strategic terms, is chess -- white has a first mover advantage that results in an ~8% higher margin of victory, and both sides have access to many dominant and dominated strategies.
*The correct phrasing would be "at random", but the stronger assumption would require a defense that relies too heavily on specialized jargon from game theory and higher level mathematics to be acceptable in a common use situation.
In other words, if the game were perfectly balanced it would become strategically uninteresting, as the dominant strategy would be, essentially, a team build composed of bars selected on a whim*.
An example of a perfectly balanced game is Tic-Tac-Toe, wherein the end result is always a draw (unless you're playing an opponent who makes a mistake). An example of an imperfectly balanced game, in strategic terms, is chess -- white has a first mover advantage that results in an ~8% higher margin of victory, and both sides have access to many dominant and dominated strategies.
*The correct phrasing would be "at random", but the stronger assumption would require a defense that relies too heavily on specialized jargon from game theory and higher level mathematics to be acceptable in a common use situation.
Buster
It would take them forever for a big skill shake up and honestly it isn't worth the time or the effort since priority is Guild Wars 2, well atleast we think it is.
Wish Swiftdeath
You can't just make everything overpowered because then the game will just become a crapshoot. Games will simply depend on what skills you bring, not how you use the actual skills.
Vazze
Big shake up is not needed, larger and more frequent skill balances are. Static skill system = dead GW.
Cab Tastic
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Originally Posted by Buster
It would take them forever for a big skill shake up and honestly it isn't worth the time or the effort since priority is Guild Wars 2, well atleast we think it is.
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I think you could go through every skill in this game and make changes to make it useful, within a week.
Probably the majority of time is spent by anet testing the effect of this skill in house (just a guess!). I say reduce this time and send it out to us to play test.
I cannot see how this would effect the PvE side of the game to any great degree apart from giving you more options.
PvP would be thrown into some chaos briefly but given that high level PvP is dying a slow death, it could be good for it long term.
Esan
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Originally Posted by haggus71
They have a Live Team of 4 people working on it.
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To call this a skeleton crew would be giving it too much credit.