I've heard that shapeshifting into a dire bear (as I see them) will be possible in gw2. However, it was also stated that the other totems (raven, ox, wurm, wolf, and others) will also be available. It was not stated that one can "become the Wolf" or the like. I think that we will be able to shift into whichever animal we so happen to chose.
I posted here to have a lore based discussion on this, not a gameplay one. I'm wondering if the norn are able to shift into other things than the bear. The bear is their greatest spirit, but the others are useful in the hunt, why haven't they shifted into those aswell?
Norn Forms, just bear?
Obrien Xp
Free Runner
While its not shown in game i believe it was said somewere they could take on the forms of the other animals. It just so happens that the Norn in Eye of the North appear to only rely on the Bears strength. Why Anet decided to only show one of the forms is unknown - perhaps they had trouble with the models or skills....who knows. But we will no doubt see them in GW2.
caballo_oscuro
From the official wiki:
The Norn are a race of nine-foot-tall warriors who live in the northernmost Shiverpeaks. They revel in the harsh climes, leading dangerous lives among savage beasts. These mighty hunters are not organized into a single nation. Instead, those who display exceptional strength and prowess in battle establish homesteads, though they are certainly not considered "rulers". They often spend years at a time tracking a particularly strong or clever quarry; they never give up on a battle, a pursuit, or a friend.
The Norn revere the spirits of nature—from the wolf to the snow lynx—but the most powerful of these is the Bear Spirit, who, according to myth, blessed the Norn with the ability to change shape and "become the bear".
— The Guild Wars Eye of the North Manuscript
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Norn
From this you could discern that their shape-shifting ability is exclusive to changing into bear-form.
The official Guildwars2 wiki suggests they can shape-shift into bear form. Does not suggest any other form can be taken.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Norn
So officially there is not anything to suggest that Norn can take the shape of other animals, only that they can receive the blessings of the respective spirits.
Also, reading back on articles and suggestions regarding the Norn, I do not recall mention of being able to take on other forms being realised in the games, although the idea had been thrust about. For now, I guess we'll have to wait and see.
The Norn are a race of nine-foot-tall warriors who live in the northernmost Shiverpeaks. They revel in the harsh climes, leading dangerous lives among savage beasts. These mighty hunters are not organized into a single nation. Instead, those who display exceptional strength and prowess in battle establish homesteads, though they are certainly not considered "rulers". They often spend years at a time tracking a particularly strong or clever quarry; they never give up on a battle, a pursuit, or a friend.
The Norn revere the spirits of nature—from the wolf to the snow lynx—but the most powerful of these is the Bear Spirit, who, according to myth, blessed the Norn with the ability to change shape and "become the bear".
— The Guild Wars Eye of the North Manuscript
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Norn
From this you could discern that their shape-shifting ability is exclusive to changing into bear-form.
The official Guildwars2 wiki suggests they can shape-shift into bear form. Does not suggest any other form can be taken.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Norn
So officially there is not anything to suggest that Norn can take the shape of other animals, only that they can receive the blessings of the respective spirits.
Also, reading back on articles and suggestions regarding the Norn, I do not recall mention of being able to take on other forms being realised in the games, although the idea had been thrust about. For now, I guess we'll have to wait and see.
The Trouble With Me
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...&postcount=203
If you scroll down about 1/4 of the way, you'll see concept art depicting (presumably) norn in wolf, bear and boar forms. It's not necessarily evidence, but interesting nonetheless.
If you scroll down about 1/4 of the way, you'll see concept art depicting (presumably) norn in wolf, bear and boar forms. It's not necessarily evidence, but interesting nonetheless.
Konig Des Todes
Eye of the North was rushed, so they only put in the bear form. There is concept art for a bear form, wolf form, and hog-like form as The Trouble With Me pointed out. Thus, suggesting *semi-officially* that Norn can take more forms.
Support for the bear form even being rushed would be the icon above the Norns' heads when using the Bear Form skill. It shows the same icon as shown when using the Avatar of Melandru skill.
In short, it is unknown, though possible and, in my opinion, likely, on whether or not the Norn can take on other animal forms.
Although, if there are more forms than the Bear Form, than they will still be limited to the Animal Spirits - of those known to be canon, Bear, Wolf, Owl, Raven, Wurm, Ox - of those suspected, Snow Lynx and Boar.
Support for the bear form even being rushed would be the icon above the Norns' heads when using the Bear Form skill. It shows the same icon as shown when using the Avatar of Melandru skill.
In short, it is unknown, though possible and, in my opinion, likely, on whether or not the Norn can take on other animal forms.
Although, if there are more forms than the Bear Form, than they will still be limited to the Animal Spirits - of those known to be canon, Bear, Wolf, Owl, Raven, Wurm, Ox - of those suspected, Snow Lynx and Boar.
Sirius-NZ
I do wonder whether Owl/Raven form would give you flight capabilities. The main issue is that that would have at least a couple major impacts on the game; firstly, you couldn't use terrain boundaries to block movement any more, and secondly, the click-to-move control system would no longer work (at least in its current form) due to the ambiguity in 2d->3d mapping...
Still. There are many, many ways they could make this cool. It'd probably be too much to expect the wolf form to recreate the kind of hack-and-slash glory I loved so well from Diablo 2, but one can hope...
Still. There are many, many ways they could make this cool. It'd probably be too much to expect the wolf form to recreate the kind of hack-and-slash glory I loved so well from Diablo 2, but one can hope...
Konig Des Todes
Sirius, for GW2, there will be jumping which would remove many of the terrain boundaries. And iirc, it was said in the very minimal info we got that the click to move system will be removed in GW2 - though that may have been changed.
If not flight, higher jumping ability I'm sure. Or, the same excuse will be used for the Norn as for the Tengu - too heavy/don't know how to properly fly. x)
If not flight, higher jumping ability I'm sure. Or, the same excuse will be used for the Norn as for the Tengu - too heavy/don't know how to properly fly. x)
draxynnic
I'd say that if the Tengu could fly physically, at least some of them would learn how to do it. It'd too much of a potential advantage to just ignore - and the dream of flight would probably be even stronger in a bird-like race than in humans. 
I suspect the main reason we only see bear forms is as has already been said - ANet only had time to implement one and they implemented the most prominent, whether because Bear is the most important spirit to the Norn, or for the more practical reason that bear form might actually be the best for the types of combat that Norn typically get into in EOTN.
I suspect the main reason we only see bear forms is as has already been said - ANet only had time to implement one and they implemented the most prominent, whether because Bear is the most important spirit to the Norn, or for the more practical reason that bear form might actually be the best for the types of combat that Norn typically get into in EOTN.
Konig Des Todes
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by draxynnic
I'd say that if the Tengu could fly physically, at least some of them would learn how to do it. It'd too much of a potential advantage to just ignore - and the dream of flight would probably be even stronger in a bird-like race than in humans.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Factions Manuscripts
Tengu are a unique species of avian humanoids found in both Tyria and Cantha. Females are generally larger than males of the species, though their plumage is plainer, even drab. Tengu lost the ability of flight some time in the distant past, but can use their almost human hands to wield all manner of weapons—when they want to. Their talons make most weapons superfluous. Tengu hate cooked food, and most live on a diet of fresh, raw meat.
|
Obrien Xp
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes
As said in the Factions Manuscripts:
So it's that they cannot fly, not that they don't remember. |
i want to see black tengu corrupted from the echowald. (though that's unlikely)
Konig Des Todes
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Obrien Xp
Darwin 4tw!
i want to see black tengu corrupted from the echowald. (though that's unlikely) |
:evil :
You're wish, was so close to occur in Nightfall.
Before you ask where I got that...
Concept Art book from the Nightfall Collector's Edition.
Neo Atomisk
Does anyone else here think that IF we are able to change into whatever animal we want, they will be the different attributes? ie, bear attribute, wolf attribute, etc.
and whats this about tengu in the echovald? o_O where can I read up on this?
and whats this about tengu in the echovald? o_O where can I read up on this?
Konig Des Todes
There are no Tengu in the Echovald. That is what Obrien Xp would want. The picture I posted is Concept Art for Tengu in Nightfall, which was removed (I think it was done for the Centaurs).
Obrien Xp
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes
:evil :You're wish, was so close to occur in Nightfall. Before you ask where I got that... Concept Art book from the Nightfall Collector's Edition. |
Those babies and GW: Utopia are the 2 things I wanted more than anything else.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes
There are no Tengu in the Echovald. That is what Obrien Xp would want. The picture I posted is Concept Art for Tengu in Nightfall, which was removed (I think it was done for the Centaurs).
|
Tengu, Charr, and Heket. My 3 fav humanoid beasts, ones playable and one may come with expansion.
Looking back at the black tengu. Norn raven form anyone
I wonder if the norn turn into minotaur for oxen form or kveldulf for wolf form
BenjZee
I remember they impress spirits of the bear, raven, wolf and i believe another one. These will be our rep titles perhaps?
Konig Des Todes
There are 7 animal spirits:
Bear, Wolf, Raven, Owl, Ox, Wurm, Snow Lynx. Owl was originally meant to be with Bear, Wolf, and Raven, but was reduced to a lesser deity. The Owl was probably the fourth you were thinking of.
Hopefully, there won't be rep titles in GW2.
Edit: IMO, they should do a new kind of favor system between certain races and the characters. Not the kind of favor we get, or faction, instead have a bar based on what the character does which can lower or raise with what we do.
If a human character helps some Charr out, the Charr's favor will raise, but if they fight against the Charr *unless it's a request from Charr to kill a rogue Charr like someone from the Gold Legion trying to gain power* then the Charr's favor will lower.
The higher the favor, the more allies and services, the lower the favor, the more enemies and fewer services from said race.
Bear, Wolf, Raven, Owl, Ox, Wurm, Snow Lynx. Owl was originally meant to be with Bear, Wolf, and Raven, but was reduced to a lesser deity. The Owl was probably the fourth you were thinking of.
Hopefully, there won't be rep titles in GW2.
Edit: IMO, they should do a new kind of favor system between certain races and the characters. Not the kind of favor we get, or faction, instead have a bar based on what the character does which can lower or raise with what we do.
If a human character helps some Charr out, the Charr's favor will raise, but if they fight against the Charr *unless it's a request from Charr to kill a rogue Charr like someone from the Gold Legion trying to gain power* then the Charr's favor will lower.
The higher the favor, the more allies and services, the lower the favor, the more enemies and fewer services from said race.
draxynnic
Makes sense. And they also shouldn't tie skills to titles. At all.
Because, really, why should how much Group X likes me affect how good I am at using their skills? It might affect whether they're willing to teach those skills, but not their effectiveness once learned.
(Although for a human to win the trust of the Charr - or vice versa - should be a delicate affair, starting on the fringes of common interest and working in...)
Because, really, why should how much Group X likes me affect how good I am at using their skills? It might affect whether they're willing to teach those skills, but not their effectiveness once learned.
(Although for a human to win the trust of the Charr - or vice versa - should be a delicate affair, starting on the fringes of common interest and working in...)
Hyper Cutter
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes
Owl was originally meant to be with Bear, Wolf, and Raven, but was reduced to a lesser deity.
|
Obrien Xp
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by draxynnic
Makes sense. And they also shouldn't tie skills to titles. At all.
Because, really, why should how much Group X likes me affect how good I am at using their skills? It might affect whether they're willing to teach those skills, but not their effectiveness once learned. (Although for a human to win the trust of the Charr - or vice versa - should be a delicate affair, starting on the fringes of common interest and working in...) |
The charr (well, the rebels) and humans got along (more or less) in eotn. Perhaps a similar situation will be reached of mutual respect from which comradery may be formed.
draxynnic
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Obrien Xp
I agree with the issues regarding title/rep skill effictiveness thing. I don't like it because, If I don't have max title I get booted from group.
The charr (well, the rebels) and humans got along (more or less) in eotn. Perhaps a similar situation will be reached of mutual respect from which comradery may be formed. |
I suspect that the interchange possibly has allowed a limited opportunity for the Vanguard and the Fierce Warband to see the other side as people rather than just faceless enemies, but it seems that seed is going to take a long time before it germinates. Certainly, we know that at least at the start of GW2, the Charr and the descendants of Ascalon remain antagonistic.
Konig Des Todes
To resurrect this thread with new info.
A new concept art of GW2 (yes, confirmed by Regina to be GW2 for those who didn't know) won in a content and given to us at the beginning of this month. Titled "Snow Battle" and can be found here.
Now to the point. It's clearly Shiverpeaks. And the two in the back look like Norn to me. Norn in an "Ox" form. There is an Ox/Bison spirit, this is a known fact, and we now have GW2 concept art supporting Norn in another form. Though it's not certain it is a Norn, I think it looks like one (with a want none the less).
Opinions? Thoughts?
My opinion, this with the 3 Norn form concept from EN - Norn will indeed have more than one form, most likely one per animal spirit. This concept only makes my opinion in this stronger. Until proven otherwise, I think that is the case.
A new concept art of GW2 (yes, confirmed by Regina to be GW2 for those who didn't know) won in a content and given to us at the beginning of this month. Titled "Snow Battle" and can be found here.
Now to the point. It's clearly Shiverpeaks. And the two in the back look like Norn to me. Norn in an "Ox" form. There is an Ox/Bison spirit, this is a known fact, and we now have GW2 concept art supporting Norn in another form. Though it's not certain it is a Norn, I think it looks like one (with a want none the less).
Opinions? Thoughts?
My opinion, this with the 3 Norn form concept from EN - Norn will indeed have more than one form, most likely one per animal spirit. This concept only makes my opinion in this stronger. Until proven otherwise, I think that is the case.
Neo Atomisk
So im guessing the forms will be a sort of attribute split, or a kind of "support" attribute, like tactics/strength.
Obrien Xp
I was inclined to believe Ox aswell. However, do you not think it looks reminiscent of a more human-like minotaur?
Mordakai
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes
And the two in the back look like Norn to me. Norn in an "Ox" form. There is an Ox/Bison spirit, this is a known fact, and we now have GW2 concept art supporting Norn in another form. Though it's not certain it is a Norn, I think it looks like one (with a wand none the less).
|
they could be monsters (like Minotaurs, as Obrien says, which also have a place in GW Lore).
Hate to bring mechanics into a Lore forum, but why would Norn need another "big" form?
Still, interesting idea, and I won't discount it out of hand. File this away until more "evidence" emerges!
Neo Atomisk
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Mordakai
I'm not sure....
they could be monsters (like Minotaurs, as Obrien says, which also have a place in GW Lore). I suppose that's plausible, but it would simply be a minotaur, not a Norn using Minotaur form. Hate to bring mechanics into a Lore forum, but why would Norn need another "big" form? The norn have multiple animal deities, it is known that they can invoke the powers of them (we are shown bear, raven, and wolf in GW1), but it is believed that they can also utilize the powers of the other animals. Shapeshifting wouldn't be too far of a stretch. Also, Mechanics wise, as I've said before, the forms could be similar to an attribute split. Ursan = Power, Volfen = Speed, Raven = Support, etc. Still, interesting idea, and I won't discount it out of hand. File this away until more "evidence" emerges! |
Mordakai
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Neo Atomisk
I suppose that's plausible, but it would simply be a minotaur, not a Norn using Minotaur form.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Neo Atomisk
The norn have multiple animal deities, it is known that they can invoke the powers of them (we are shown bear, raven, and wolf in GW1), but it is believed that they can also utilize the powers of the other animals. Shapeshifting wouldn't be too far of a stretch. Also, Mechanics wise, as I've said before, the forms could be similar to an attribute split. Ursan = Power, Volfen = Speed, Raven = Support, etc.
|
Konig Des Todes
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Obrien Xp
I was inclined to believe Ox aswell. However, do you not think it looks reminiscent of a more human-like minotaur?
|
Minotaurs are half-human, half-bull creatures. The original one just had the head, feet, and strength of a bull, and the rest was humanoid - also covered in hair. That is how I would see the Norn's Ox Form, except maybe the feet.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Mordakai
Exactly. What would a "Bull" attribute be? Ursan is already the tank. Volfen is speed. And Raven is support...
|
However, I think that the Bear, Wolf, and Raven forms will be different than in GW1. Bear may be just pure strength, Ox could then be armor, Wolf could be speed, Raven could be blocking, Owl would be energy, wurm would be health
Past that, I can't think of any (that's the 6 confirmed deities, there are 2 other unconfirmed deities - Snow Lynx and Eagle). I would have to say that Eagle could be Critcal Hits (better eyesight?) and Snow Lynx be.... well, don't know.
Neo Atomisk
Being a warrior, all this talk of Norn is arousing.
I'd love to see Norn be able to be that diverse. Maybe Ox could be a kind of Dervish? (Im thinking of Berzerking Bison)
I'd love to see Norn be able to be that diverse. Maybe Ox could be a kind of Dervish? (Im thinking of Berzerking Bison)
Sirius-NZ
Actually, it does replace Dervish forms pretty nicely. Which is, sadly, the only part of the class that was distinct enough to be worth the effort to keep.
I didn't actually think those characters were Norn when I first saw them - I had the impression the armoured character at the lower end of the picture might be a Norn out hunting minotaurs or something. While that could still be the case, there are a few things that make me think you're right; firstly the wand/mace/whatever, secondly the fact that they seem to dwarf the armoured character (which is pretty impressive considering how tall Norn are), and finally I think they might be wearing something. Not sure though.
I didn't actually think those characters were Norn when I first saw them - I had the impression the armoured character at the lower end of the picture might be a Norn out hunting minotaurs or something. While that could still be the case, there are a few things that make me think you're right; firstly the wand/mace/whatever, secondly the fact that they seem to dwarf the armoured character (which is pretty impressive considering how tall Norn are), and finally I think they might be wearing something. Not sure though.
Konig Des Todes
The horned-beings are wearing a cape or something, but at least upper body on the first, nothing else but fur. Also, another thing to go against the lower being Norn. The Norn are known to not wear much armor, or clothing, even in the immense cold of the shiverpeaks. Unless Norn culture changed, that figure cannot be a Norn at all - too much armor, for Norn it would probably "ruin the sport" too much.
Neo Atomisk
It wouldn't be very Norn of him.
But I'd love to have an avatar of Frostmaw
Wurm form would be nice for the big battles I think i've heard about.
But I'd love to have an avatar of Frostmaw
Wurm form would be nice for the big battles I think i've heard about.
Obrien Xp
Has anyone else looked at that mace thing and thought it looks like a skull atop another bone?
Mordakai
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Obrien Xp
Has anyone else looked at that mace thing and thought it looks like a skull atop another bone?
|
I didn't even think they could be Norn, much less a Norn carrying a focus!
Not to rule that possibility out, there are plenty of skull/bone items in Guild Wars, so it is certainly possible, just not what I first thought of when looking at the picture. Which is what makes forums so fun to read!
Konig Des Todes
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Obrien Xp
Has anyone else looked at that mace thing and thought it looks like a skull atop another bone?
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Mordakai
I didn't even think they could be Norn, much less a Norn carrying a focus!
|
draxynnic
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Sirius-NZ
Actually, it does replace Dervish forms pretty nicely. Which is, sadly, the only part of the class that was distinct enough to be worth the effort to keep.
|
Which could mean that the distinction between Bear and Ox is that while they're both warrior-oriented, Bear is more about damage and health while Ox may be more tactical - possibly GW2's version of Bull's Charge?
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes
The horned-beings are wearing a cape or something, but at least upper body on the first, nothing else but fur. Also, another thing to go against the lower being Norn. The Norn are known to not wear much armor, or clothing, even in the immense cold of the shiverpeaks. Unless Norn culture changed, that figure cannot be a Norn at all - too much armor, for Norn it would probably "ruin the sport" too much.
|
It is possible, however, that after being driven from their lands that the Norn have started to armour up a bit more - after, you know, being driven from their homes, one might expect that they might decide that they need a few more advantages themselves to bring it back to being sport rather than being on the receiving end of massacre. :P
Konig Des Todes
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by draxynnic
Actually, those Norn spellcasters you keep reminding people do exist tend to cover up reasonably well - it's just the martial professions that wear as little as possible. (And not all of them - Egil is fairly well-dressed from memory.)
It is possible, however, that after being driven from their lands that the Norn have started to armour up a bit more - after, you know, being driven from their homes, one might expect that they might decide that they need a few more advantages themselves to bring it back to being sport rather than being on the receiving end of massacre. :P |
- Making fights a better "sport"
- And because the Forms would break the armor.
Also, the casters are mostly dressed in fur coats - the only thing showing on these creatures are fur (and fur capes!). Perhaps both Ox Form+Fur Clothing *that is, at least a fur cape*? The non-casters are more of metal and leather, while the casters are more of fur.
Mordakai
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes
It reminds me of the Boar Scepters, personally.
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH PLEASE don't make me have to point out how there are already Norn casters! It could be a focus or a wand! >_< |
I just assumed they were monsters. Which may have to do with the fact they are dark, and menacing (which I know there are other Norn picts like that, as well).
Sirius-NZ
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes
The horned-beings are wearing a cape or something, but at least upper body on the first, nothing else but fur. Also, another thing to go against the lower being Norn. The Norn are known to not wear much armor, or clothing, even in the immense cold of the shiverpeaks. Unless Norn culture changed, that figure cannot be a Norn at all - too much armor, for Norn it would probably "ruin the sport" too much.
|
Obrien Xp
As far as I've noted, their merchants and bussinessnorn seem to wear the standard amount of clothing, warriors and spell casters on the other hand, follow the gw rule: "less armor=stronger ie. Silk Nighties>Kevlar"
draxynnic
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes
Hmmm, that is true. Although on the armor part, I think that would depend. That is, if the Forms change the armor as well. I always saw the lack of armor as two things:
Also, the casters are mostly dressed in fur coats - the only thing showing on these creatures are fur (and fur capes!). Perhaps both Ox Form+Fur Clothing *that is, at least a fur cape*? The non-casters are more of metal and leather, while the casters are more of fur. |
(It's possible that Norn warriors train to be intrinsically tough enough that any armour they could transform in wouldn't benefit them, while casters and tradesNorn are a little more vulnerable.)
Heavier armours could then show up in a similar manner as the druid armour workaround in D&D 3.X - they wear hides and carapaces of creatures that provide similar degrees of protection. Note that I say this without looking at the image in question to see whether it is metal or whether it could be made of something's carapace formed into plates...