Add a NPC to trade up equipment bags

There should be a NPC at Great Temple of Balthazar that allows you to trade up equipment bags. It would go:

Equipment pack:
Light = Small Equipment Pack + 5 Silver Coins + 200 gold
Large = Light Equipment Pack + 4 Gold Coins + 350 gold
Heavy = Large Equipment Pack + 10 Gold Coins + 600 gold

This way, if you got a lesser bag, you can still get a larger one for equal amount of coins needed to get the larger ones without having to get all the needed Zaishen Coins again.

I prefer it how it is. This way you have to make decisions about whether you should save your coins or buy a bag. Under the current system there is some resource management and planning, which adds to the game. With your suggestion it's a no-brainer: always buy a bag right away.

I suggest that if you are looking to upgrade your bags you should try to sell your smaller bag (and/or other zaishen rewards) for gold and then try to buy a bigger bag from another player. (Note, if your suggested reward system was implemented then the value of heavy and large bags would drop significantly.)

EDIT: Damn beaten to it xD.

Ok ive noticed this threads been open a while and still no one has commented.

And i think thats because its a "meh" subject.

In other words "Is it really worth the effort" /notsigned
But on the otherhand "In a month i may want to upgrade to a heavy" /signed

So let me be the first to say.

/undecided

I like it.

/signed because my main has yet to get an equipment pack because I don't wanna waste money on more than one.

/signed or whatever, I think all the eq packs are way too expensive and the amount of stuff you carry in this game has exploded from the early years.

Well, they should have been upgradable from the start.

Instead adding another NPC to change them, I'll just replace the mediumn, large and big bags in the collector with runes that upgrade each size to the next, and reduce their prices, so each one adds up.

An item like that should not be something to speculate with.

/notsigned

Current system works perfectly fine and there's no need to change. You're just looking for a way to get CHEAPER bigger packs.
Yes, cheaper.
This change would be ~almost~ like making the ZCoins tradeable - people would no longer need to get all 15 gold coins on 1 account to spawn a new Heavy pack, they could get just 10 which is a major difference.

if i was to sign it woould be for this they can keep the bags too just add the runes

Agree. Should have been like this in the first place. But whatever. Got all the bags I can be bothered getting. Is pretty lol though, pvp is the best way to get them, except my pve chars seem to be the ones to swipe them as soon as I get them.

And take out a potential money sink? Currently people will be selling their old bags if they want to upgrade to a larger one. This means someone else will be buying it. In a sense, it is a money sink. I also like that it makes you plan.

/unsigned

No. It doesn't make you plan. It adds regrets.
Plan is like when you choose a side in Factions, a hero in Nightfall or a storyline in Eye of the north. You'll get things different while you play, but with no regrets, since you'll be able to coma back later and do other things you could not before. You plan when you play, but there are no regrets.
Same with upgrades. You either get the big first, or upgrade slowly. You plan, but without regrets.

And it is NOT a gold sink if another player gets the gold.
When another player gets the gold, you can call it a gold funnel. The gold doesn't disappear, it gets concentrated in one player. And that's BAD.
If you want to turn them into gold sinks, make them available for 100k in traders.

Mithran is right. A gold sink removes gold from the game (like crafting armour, money is taken from the game forever), trading cash to another player just moves the gold around. The gold still exists within the game, just with a different owner.

I like the idea of upgrading the bags. As long as the upgrade price corresponds or even a bit more I'll /sign.

Second hand market is not money sink.

id also agree with this

I agree with Mithran.

Plus, consider why the bags were introduced in the first place - because players asked for more storage. Non-upgradable bags mean that, in practise, most players are just going to save up for the biggest ones. The smaller ones almost might as well not be in the game, and while a player is saving for the first equipment pack, they aren't getting the benefit of the update.

Making them upgradeable would allow players to get some of that inventory pressure relief now, while still having something to work for without having to start over from scratch.

Besides, what's going to happen to the market in sub-heavy packs in a year or so when most people who want heavy packs have already got them?

Cheap people are cheap.

There are NO regrets in this system. Bags don't get customized, they can be sold or just passed down to a less played character or mule. No value is lost.

I can ensure you that even the 10-slot bags will still have solid market value in 12 months from now (provided no major update affects them), even if it's as low as say 5k.

No change please, the system works well here.

Well,, not value is lost because ZKeys can't be sold, so they are invaluable.
One single gold coin spet in a smaller bag makes harder to get the big one.

There is no speed clear for all ZCoins, there may be some fast ones.

The change won't affect the players if you put the right prices, only those that get the bags only to sell them. There's nothing wrong with that, more like the opposite.

I'm all for upgrading equipment bags. After all it's a system that is already implemented in the game. Have we all not used a Rune of Holding?

Bag upgrades would be fine only if they costed as much as the full bags, so they won't devalue the bigger ones.

The seemingly 'fair' pricing suggested in the OP does make obtaining the Large and Heavy bags much EASIER. The effect would be just like making ZCoins themselves trade'able, but to a smaller extent. This would allow new ways of obtaining the heavy packs, for example a player could buy a Large and get 10 gold coins himself and boom - a new Heavy pack is created - bypassing the need for a single account to get to 15 coins.

This would mean MORE Heavy packs in the market, which would lead to them being cheaper which would lead to the ZCoins themselves having less value for the players in the long term.

Zcoins value is dropping by itself, making updates which drop them further would be a bad mistake!
Wrong Way!
Maintaining high value of the ZCoins is important for the whole system to be worthwhile and all the Zquests remain well rewarding.

And theres absolutely no NEED for this kind of update. Bags are sellable and can be just passed down to other characters. Going for the biggest one right away without getting any smaller is a horrible WASTE of resources - get a bunch of smaller first, then gather the coins for bigger ones.

And if you really really NEED a 20-slot for your main char, and you can't afford buying it from other players right away, getting smaller ones first for your ZCoins is still NOT any kind of waste! No value is lost! You can just spend your ZCoins on the smaller ones, and by the time you would get the 15 Goldcoins, you will have about the SAME value in smaller bags --> just sell them and buy the heavy then! Market prices are changing but so far the price of the Heavy is always equal to price of 3 Large ones, and it will stay like that for a long long time.

You seem to assume there's a big market for sub-20 bags. Is there such a market? Cause I haven't seen it. And if there is no market, then your whole argument about there not being any waste falls apart right there.

You do realize that zoins will have essentially zero value once people get bags they aim for, right?

Issue is that there are no meaningful rewards past the bag. That is real neck-breaker. Attempts to make bag acquisition more of a pain do not solve that. They can not.

personally i like the system as it is. you dont NEED the big bag, i have the 10 slot bags on my people. enough for that extra head pieces + random other armor chunks, and serves me well. you have to think what you want and build up to it.

only way i could see it changing is making it cost a total of 20 gold coins or more through the upgrades. like a loan, with high interest. you could get it slowly, but it would cost you more.

Jaximus but then people wouldn't want to upgrade slowly because it be faster to get 15 coins instead of 20 coins.

Total cost over should be more by upgrading than by getting the bags, but less than the sum of the prices of the bags.
Getting just the big costs 7500.

Small to light -> 250 (5 silver)
Light to large -> 2000 (4 gold)
Large to Heavy -> 5000 (10 gold)

The extra price? Paid in gold. Since you'll pay gold 4 times instead of 1.

people want to be able to use the bags instead of waiting and stockpiling the coins and trading it in for the heavy. i still believe they should NOT be ugradable though. the z quests keep people interested because YOU have to work for something if you want it. thats the whole reason behind not being able to trade coins. if you could upgrade packs, it would take much less time to get a heavy one. being able to upgrade them would make them much easier to get.

heres an example. you and a couple friends want heavy packs, so friend 1 gets it and trades to friend 2, he upgrades and trades it to friends 3, who upgrades it again. this makes it much easier to get the max pack and you can avoid the issue of not trading coins. this is far to easy to get a max pack without having to save/budget. by making the coins untradable and the packs unupgradable, it gives people things to do for a while. it keeps peoples interest. the whole reason behind z quests. if you were able to get the stuff more quickly, people would lose interest and slowly stop playing.

again, i am all for leaving it as is. i dont want to see packs upgradable. if for some reason they do make them this way, make it the same as a rent to own. if you can use the pack while you gather coins, you surely should have to pay more for the use. also, the packs should customize (account maybe) on upgrade to avoid the ability to trade->upgrade->trade.

QFT. Those bags are not consumables or weapons that collectors will buy "just to have it" or for having more "prestidge" . Once almost all ppl have some 20slot bags , Zcoins are going to be worth "nothing" . Making them expensive just makes this process last longer .... but wait .... isnt that what Anet was looking for since the beggining of these ZQ ? to make ppl last longer ingame ? .... just my 2 cents

Not that it would take the same time, or even more, and it won't be easier. The only difference is that you will be able to use some slots as you upgrade before getting the max, instead having to spend all the time without the bag.

What's hard to understand here??

Making bags upgradable = making them easier to get = devaluing them

(except for when upgrading costs are nearly as high as getting new ones of course)

And the high prices are there to ensure people will ALWAYS want more bigger bags. Even if individuals will get all they want, the general masses will want more and bigger bags forever. It will take long long months till I'll get 20-slots for main playable characters, 15-slots for main trader-mules and 10-slots for all lesser mules on all accounts.

And the bags will be the ONLY things worth getting for the zcoins for EVER if no major change happens. But if bad updates nerf the value of the bags and zcoins with them as they're tied and they drop so low that it will actually be fine to purchase any of the current non-bag items with them, it will be the ultimate FAIL of the whole system.
ZCoins MUST retain a high value, that's why I say *NO* to any suggested nerfs that would hit them.

Well, as I said here's your exception:

Small to light -> 250 (5 silver)
Light to large -> 2000 (4 gold)
Large to Heavy -> 5000 (10 gold)

Total cost of a Heavy Bag:
- 7500 zCooper + ...
- 50gold by upgrading 250 cooper to 5 zSilver
- 400gold for upgrading 2000 cooper to 40 zSilver
- 200gold for upgrading 40 silver to 4 zGold.
- 1000gold for upgrading 5000 cooper to 100 zSilver.
- 500 gold for upgrading 100 silver to 10 zGold.

If you look at the prices of items that can be acquired in other places like traders or merchants (and discard the extra gold), each zCooper counts as 10 gold, so then:
Total cost for getting a 20 slot bag by upgrading: 7250 cooper + 4950gold = 77450 gold.
Total cost for getting a 20 slot bag directly: 7500 + 2350 gold = 77350 gold.
See? Actually more expensive.
The difference is that you get to use a bag while you gather ZCoins, instead of expending hours and hours hoarding an item until GW2 is released and you leave change to it with a bunch of unused ZCoins in the Xunlai Storage.