CONTINUING ON FROM TZU'S THREAD (Post here to not spam her commission thread :\)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueXIV Artists' Discovery Thread [Share ideas and techniques here]
BlueXIV
Quote:
For some reason, until quite recently, line art has always proved to be far more popular for fan art both by those seeking to get a commission done and competition judges. Certainly that has been the case on these forums at least.
TBH, I think doing line art and coloring them is a bit easier. It takes out some of the problems during the sketching phase where you don't know where to go, and makes the coloring phase go by a bit faster, because you can just select and insert color. There's no real problem with line art; it makes drawings look cleaner, with being stylized being the trade-off.
I don't use line art for two reasons:
1. Line art makes adding a background kind of hard, because it's really hard to blend characters into the BG and make them not look like paper cutouts. People have done it pretty well, but I don't really like the effect
2. I am too lazy to meticulously draw out lineart, scan it in, and painstakingly ink it :P. I like to do a sketch on my tablet in photoshop, and color it in NOW. Thus my "line art" is just a scratch sketch. If I just color that, it would look horrible.
So I just end up doing things like this: drawing a sketch in photoshop, adding a normal layer under it, color with a BRUSH, then erasing the stuff outside the lines, selecting the stuff left, and shading with a BRUSH. After I am done, I just color right over the lines with another color, depending on where the lines are. So in the end, I do use "line art", but I just color over it in the finished piece.
If you don't want to bother with that, you can always select (control click) your line art, and use a huge fuzzy brush to add some value to the lines. It helps a lot I think :P
Anyways, I should really stop spamming your thread... How about we make a new thread for "art discovery?" Mmm I like that. Going to make now
Morag D
nice idea to get a thread going! 
well, I agree- it's usually easier to draw outlines and then colour them in. Plus many people [as in (hobby) artists] seem to come from the manga side of things. I really admire people who can paint on a rough sketch and make it look amazing in the end - something I admit I haven't quite bothered to learn yet. Personally I've always been more for drawing/sketching than painting, perhaps because I (used to) do lots of technical drawing. I could say that colouring/painting takes ages, and to me it feels like that too
, but then I can easily spend 10h on a lineart, which rather qualifys that statement. So, yeah, suum cuique - each to their own. And happily so, because variety is awesome 
well, I agree- it's usually easier to draw outlines and then colour them in. Plus many people [as in (hobby) artists] seem to come from the manga side of things. I really admire people who can paint on a rough sketch and make it look amazing in the end - something I admit I haven't quite bothered to learn yet. Personally I've always been more for drawing/sketching than painting, perhaps because I (used to) do lots of technical drawing. I could say that colouring/painting takes ages, and to me it feels like that too
, but then I can easily spend 10h on a lineart, which rather qualifys that statement. So, yeah, suum cuique - each to their own. And happily so, because variety is awesome
BlueXIV
haha yeah. Oh, and if you guys want to, we can share techniques and tutorials in this thread. Might be fun no?
Massive Impulsa
Whenever i draw i just click the Bucket thing in the panel and click on the field i want painted! Works everytime ^^
Widowmaker
Hmm, I tend to simply block colour in to rough out an image and then paint straight over that from there. When I do sketches they tend to be very loose and a rough guideline at absolute best. More often I'll do a quick sketch when I'm out to jog my memory later but I'll rarely start from the sketch if and when I get round to doing it.
But I was more referring to the idea that the general preference of people wanting the art has been line art, rather than necessarily the artists themselves.
But I was more referring to the idea that the general preference of people wanting the art has been line art, rather than necessarily the artists themselves.
BlueXIV
Mmm... I guess so :\ I hate doing lineart, so I don't offer it in my thread, and I haven't been here long enough to see exactly what people want 
Starting on a new commission today. Going to try a different approach. I've always wanted to try doing an under painting and glazing over it like in oils... Hopefully this will turn out well. I'll share some in progresses if it works in digital >_>
Starting on a new commission today. Going to try a different approach. I've always wanted to try doing an under painting and glazing over it like in oils... Hopefully this will turn out well
. I'll share some in progresses if it works in digital >_>
Duranin
lol woo, a discussion thread.
I'm basically opposite of you Blue. What I can say though is that lineless/painted art does have its niche in the GW art community, albeit at what I personally believe to be a price range out of my reach. I really wish I could do digital art without lineart, but quite honestly all my attempts are just terrible. I can't get the spontaneous look, probably no thanks to years of sticking to a extremely precise style. -.-''
I use a tablet, so I don't go through the trouble of scanning in a sketch (although I do have a scanner.) Depending on whether I draw on paper or straight into an art program I do end up with different proportional problems with my people, lol.
Sometimes after I finish a commission or any other piece done in my normal style I'll hide all the lineart layers to look at just the colouring. Aside from sloppiness on the edges (lines hide that very well... eheheh) it usually looks pretty decent even sans lines. It's just kind of sad that I can't start a picture with the intent to do it without lines and be able to carry it through correctly.
<-- most recent attempt at lineless. Like this one I end up getting way too "smooth" and entirely losing the painty aspect of it.
I'm basically opposite of you Blue. What I can say though is that lineless/painted art does have its niche in the GW art community, albeit at what I personally believe to be a price range out of my reach. I really wish I could do digital art without lineart, but quite honestly all my attempts are just terrible. I can't get the spontaneous look, probably no thanks to years of sticking to a extremely precise style. -.-''
I use a tablet, so I don't go through the trouble of scanning in a sketch (although I do have a scanner.) Depending on whether I draw on paper or straight into an art program I do end up with different proportional problems with my people, lol.
Sometimes after I finish a commission or any other piece done in my normal style I'll hide all the lineart layers to look at just the colouring. Aside from sloppiness on the edges (lines hide that very well... eheheh) it usually looks pretty decent even sans lines. It's just kind of sad that I can't start a picture with the intent to do it without lines and be able to carry it through correctly.
<-- most recent attempt at lineless. Like this one I end up getting way too "smooth" and entirely losing the painty aspect of it.
Widowmaker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Araiia of the Songs
<-- most recent attempt at lineless. Like this one I end up getting way too "smooth" and entirely losing the painty aspect of it.
Funnily enough, though I'd want a larger version to stare at, I think that looks rather good indeed. Different tastes I suppose.
I like most styles, some line art is a little too heavy for my tastes, but I do like the rather clear, clean style of line art, even if I don't do it myself.
I like most styles, some line art is a little too heavy for my tastes, but I do like the rather clear, clean style of line art, even if I don't do it myself.
BlueXIV
I kinda like it araiia 
I think lines aren't bad at all, but you can show a lot more depth if you color the lines as well. You can try just selecting the line art (control click line art layer, ctrl+h to hide selection), and dropping some colors in with a huge fuzzy brush. Something like dark brown for the lines in the shadow next to skin, or light blue for the lines on the hair facing the light source. Try it, you might like it
I think lines aren't bad at all, but you can show a lot more depth if you color the lines as well. You can try just selecting the line art (control click line art layer, ctrl+h to hide selection), and dropping some colors in with a huge fuzzy brush. Something like dark brown for the lines in the shadow next to skin, or light blue for the lines on the hair facing the light source. Try it, you might like it
Duranin
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueXIV
[x] <-- My favourite picture to date, in which I did use the coloured lines.
[x] [x] [x] [x] <-- other older pictures with coloured lines
Verene
If I'm drawing something that's kind of cartoony in style, I have to have line art.
If it's more realistic, I generally start out with a sketch, but it ultimately ends up lineless.
I don't know why XP That's just how my drawings turn out. Probably because the more realistic stuff I do, digitally at least, is painted which is a bit different.
[x] - lineart example (it's a silly piece I did for a friend, Matrix RP fanart)
vs
[x] - more realistic portrait (my character from said RP that the silly drawing above is from)
I tend to find simpler drawings with lineart quicker and easier to do, though. Which is probably also why it's so preferred here - quicker, easier drawings are cheaper for commissions :P
If it's more realistic, I generally start out with a sketch, but it ultimately ends up lineless.
I don't know why XP That's just how my drawings turn out. Probably because the more realistic stuff I do, digitally at least, is painted which is a bit different.
[x] - lineart example (it's a silly piece I did for a friend, Matrix RP fanart)
vs
[x] - more realistic portrait (my character from said RP that the silly drawing above is from)
I tend to find simpler drawings with lineart quicker and easier to do, though. Which is probably also why it's so preferred here - quicker, easier drawings are cheaper for commissions :P
Smilin' Assassin
here's a WiP of a piece I'm commishing from a hidden gem of an artist, working in Corel Painter .. part two will be even more awsum:}
obsidian ectoplasm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smilin' Assassin
Invertation
A question to all artists of any level:
How long have you been practicing the arts? How intensively? What is your motivator?
I always have found it curious while looking upon a piece that dazzles and amazes, just what went on behind it? We aren't simply blessed with the sudden ability to masterfully create, it takes time and devotion to learning and practice. I aspire (albeit lack motivation) to the greatness that I see in so many artist's talent, yet I can only wonder to what lengths they went to achieve such stature.
For lack of more words, I open this question to everyone.
How long have you been practicing the arts? How intensively? What is your motivator?
I always have found it curious while looking upon a piece that dazzles and amazes, just what went on behind it? We aren't simply blessed with the sudden ability to masterfully create, it takes time and devotion to learning and practice. I aspire (albeit lack motivation) to the greatness that I see in so many artist's talent, yet I can only wonder to what lengths they went to achieve such stature.
For lack of more words, I open this question to everyone.
BlueXIV
Ehehe...
I guess I've been drawing for a while now. I think I started doodling back in middle school, and took some art classes in high school. I hung out with a lot of art kids in high school, and I think that rubbed off on them. The thing that really started me on art was probably actually guild wars concept art. I loved the look and feel of it, and i just wanted to try and do something like that. I'm freshman in college right now, getting a BSE in computer science, but I still draw a lot (instead of studying for exams x_x).
I was pretty much self taught on digital painting, with the help of some friends, and some good internet resources. I had a decent foundation in traditional drawing and painting though, and I think that helps a LOT. I am no where near where I want to be in art though, so I draw a lot to achieve that.
If I can give any advice to starting artist, it would be the following:
1. Draw. A LOT. No matter what it is, draw a looooot. My notebooks for school is 80% doodles, 20% notes :P.
2. Get some resources/feedback that can help you. DeviantArt is... not a good place for this. I'm sure it's a great place to share art, but a bunch of people telling you "SUGOI KAWAII DESU" doesn't help you get any better.
3. Start off by getting a good foundation. I hate drawing still lives. I. really. really. do. I, however can't deny how they helped me see light and darkness, color and saturation. There is a lot of things that are pretty basic, like color theory, but it will make all the difference between a dull painting and a awesome one (I... still haven't learned color theory very well. I BS it :P)
I guess I've been drawing for a while now. I think I started doodling back in middle school, and took some art classes in high school. I hung out with a lot of art kids in high school, and I think that rubbed off on them. The thing that really started me on art was probably actually guild wars concept art. I loved the look and feel of it, and i just wanted to try and do something like that. I'm freshman in college right now, getting a BSE in computer science, but I still draw a lot (instead of studying for exams x_x).
I was pretty much self taught on digital painting, with the help of some friends, and some good internet resources. I had a decent foundation in traditional drawing and painting though, and I think that helps a LOT. I am no where near where I want to be in art though, so I draw a lot to achieve that.
If I can give any advice to starting artist, it would be the following:
1. Draw. A LOT. No matter what it is, draw a looooot. My notebooks for school is 80% doodles, 20% notes :P.
2. Get some resources/feedback that can help you. DeviantArt is... not a good place for this. I'm sure it's a great place to share art, but a bunch of people telling you "SUGOI KAWAII DESU" doesn't help you get any better.
3. Start off by getting a good foundation. I hate drawing still lives. I. really. really. do. I, however can't deny how they helped me see light and darkness, color and saturation. There is a lot of things that are pretty basic, like color theory, but it will make all the difference between a dull painting and a awesome one (I... still haven't learned color theory very well. I BS it :P)
Widowmaker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Invertation
What is your motivator?
Angry otters with whips. It helps that they refuse to let me eat until I've done something.
BlueXIV
Espadon
Annnnnd... nowadays you don't even need art foundation, just spam custom brush abuse and get perfect results gogogo
*stamp stamp stamp stamp* 100k
*stamp stamp stamp stamp* 100k
BlueXIV
Hey, I love custom brushes :P. I use them all the time when I don't feel like drawing every freaking leaf on a tree or w/e. They are great for adding texture and creating an illusion of detail without spending 40+ hours on a painting.
I think it's very much not true that you don't require art fundamentals to use them. You can add as much details as you want, but when it comes down to it, the composition and color choice is what makes a picture work, not the details. I could show you some really sh*tty stuff I did a year or two back with brush abuse, but I'd be a bit too embarrassed :P
The vast majority of industry artists spam custom brushes because it's fast. Example would be Guild Wars concept art. SO MUCH custom brushes. Still can't deny they have talent tho.
Besides, you can't really use much custom brush spam on characters ._.
I think it's very much not true that you don't require art fundamentals to use them. You can add as much details as you want, but when it comes down to it, the composition and color choice is what makes a picture work, not the details. I could show you some really sh*tty stuff I did a year or two back with brush abuse, but I'd be a bit too embarrassed :P
The vast majority of industry artists spam custom brushes because it's fast. Example would be Guild Wars concept art. SO MUCH custom brushes. Still can't deny they have talent tho.
Besides, you can't really use much custom brush spam on characters ._.
Verene
Oh for...
Photoshop does not automatically make one a good artist. There is no "make perfect art" button. It's a bloody tool for creating art.
Photoshop does not automatically make one a good artist. There is no "make perfect art" button. It's a bloody tool for creating art.
Invertation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verene
Oh for...
Photoshop does not automatically make one a good artist. There is no "make perfect art" button. It's a bloody tool for creating art. Truth, truth. If that were so, I would be one of the many artists here taking commissions rather than eying them enviously.
Photoshop plays more to a level of convenience for any user though. Someone like me who prefers not to delve into the greater complexities of art can fool around with a few filters for fun and get simple pleasing results. Alternately, there are the greater artists who can assemble a masterpiece that would rival the best canvas works; time and complication saved and detail added through use of various techniques only Photoshop could do..
Perhaps that's just how I see it.
Photoshop does not automatically make one a good artist. There is no "make perfect art" button. It's a bloody tool for creating art. Truth, truth. If that were so, I would be one of the many artists here taking commissions rather than eying them enviously.
Photoshop plays more to a level of convenience for any user though. Someone like me who prefers not to delve into the greater complexities of art can fool around with a few filters for fun and get simple pleasing results. Alternately, there are the greater artists who can assemble a masterpiece that would rival the best canvas works; time and complication saved and detail added through use of various techniques only Photoshop could do..
Perhaps that's just how I see it.
Nian
Here's some random tips and tricks I've learnt to paint with to make artworks look more spiffy. Posting from work so it'll be really random... but mainly about character art. Don't know if this is of any use to anyone but here goes.
Hair tips:
-If you are going to color your work there is no need to make the lineart all super detailed and paint every single strand of hair. I find it looks better if you leave some empty white space for the color to fill. Restraining yourself is key.
-It doesn't matter if the colors overflow. I like to paint freely so I let the colors bleed through lineart.
-Lineart doesn't have to be super neat. Sketchy half-shaded lineart can look really nice. Lineart doesn't have to be BLACK either. It can be any color. I like to use dark red, blue and brown. It will give the whole artwork an interesting look. Here I'll use blue & red.
Basic color:
Color variation:
-I like to add some color variation to the base color to make it more interesting. I usually go crazy with this everywhere when I'm laying out the basic colors. Here it's just a blue tint on the red base color.
Darker shade:
-Here you can make use of the "empty space" and use the darker shade to paint the strands.
Light spot:
-If you're lazy like me just grab a big soft brush and make a big light spot. Add some color dodge for effect. You may need to flatten your image. (yes I used the c-word):P
Paint single strands:
-paint some stray single strands of hair on top of your lineart and color to make the hair look more lively using the light colors.
The end.
Hair tips:
-If you are going to color your work there is no need to make the lineart all super detailed and paint every single strand of hair. I find it looks better if you leave some empty white space for the color to fill. Restraining yourself is key.
-It doesn't matter if the colors overflow. I like to paint freely so I let the colors bleed through lineart.
-Lineart doesn't have to be super neat. Sketchy half-shaded lineart can look really nice. Lineart doesn't have to be BLACK either. It can be any color. I like to use dark red, blue and brown. It will give the whole artwork an interesting look. Here I'll use blue & red.
Basic color:
Color variation:
-I like to add some color variation to the base color to make it more interesting. I usually go crazy with this everywhere when I'm laying out the basic colors. Here it's just a blue tint on the red base color.
Darker shade:
-Here you can make use of the "empty space" and use the darker shade to paint the strands.
Light spot:
-If you're lazy like me just grab a big soft brush and make a big light spot. Add some color dodge for effect. You may need to flatten your image. (yes I used the c-word):P
Paint single strands:
-paint some stray single strands of hair on top of your lineart and color to make the hair look more lively using the light colors.
The end.
Verene
I gotta say, I've always liked that style of coloring - but I tend to like stylized styles a lot. It's very cute
Widowmaker
Anybody here use Painter?
Since line art is pretty popular, and people have discussed line weights in the past, try playing around with the Details Oils Brush 10, obviously found in the oils section, it's a great little brush for both sketching and for line work as it has a nice variable width depending on pressure and speed. It gives a nice "randomness" to the thickness of your lines while still giving a nice neat edge with enough of the oil effect to smooth things out.
And for sketching a rough it lets you slap down some nice quick lines without looking too scratchy.
Since line art is pretty popular, and people have discussed line weights in the past, try playing around with the Details Oils Brush 10, obviously found in the oils section, it's a great little brush for both sketching and for line work as it has a nice variable width depending on pressure and speed. It gives a nice "randomness" to the thickness of your lines while still giving a nice neat edge with enough of the oil effect to smooth things out.
And for sketching a rough it lets you slap down some nice quick lines without looking too scratchy.
BlueXIV
I love painter, I just don't love USING painter :P
I like all the natural brushes and stuff, but I hate how poorly it's coded. It lags and crashes pretty often, and I'm pretty bad at saving... :\ Also you can't use more than like 5-6 layers, or there is massive slowdown. Bahhh. I'd totally use their software if they could find some more competent programmers :\
I do love their digital watercolor set tho. I used to use it a lot, back when I was more patient. It reminds me of Nian's coloring style
I like all the natural brushes and stuff, but I hate how poorly it's coded. It lags and crashes pretty often, and I'm pretty bad at saving... :\ Also you can't use more than like 5-6 layers, or there is massive slowdown. Bahhh. I'd totally use their software if they could find some more competent programmers :\
I do love their digital watercolor set tho. I used to use it a lot, back when I was more patient
. It reminds me of Nian's coloring style
Widowmaker
BlueXIV
Uhmm around 5x8"at 300 dpi? I usually like to work at 50% then zoom in for anything I want to add
Widowmaker
Curious then, I usually work larger than that and at 300dpi and I can't say as I've had any issues with any of the problems you've mentioned. I know I have at times had 20-30 layers without a problem.
Reason I ask is I wondered if you worked on massive 50" canvasses or something and that was causing a problem.
Reason I ask is I wondered if you worked on massive 50" canvasses or something and that was causing a problem.
BlueXIV
Hmm... dunno. My computer isn't that crappy either... Bah w/e. I like using photoshop anyways for my STAMPSTAMP custom brushes anyways :P. Also, I don't get the transform tool in painter... :\
Anyways, I should get back to MATLAB... D:
Booooring
Anyways, I should get back to MATLAB... D:
Booooring
Verene
I've never really used Painter much...I've used it in the past, but I just prefer Photoshop. I'm much more used to it, having been using it for 8 years =P
Widowmaker
I'll keep my advice to myself then.
BlueXIV
Don't get me wrong, painter is awesome... I do use it from time to time. I just enjoy using Photoshop more because it's fast, and I paint slow enough as is :\
Konig Des Todes
Decided to sticky this thread as I found it as a good thread for it to die out (if I used computer programs like photoshop to do art, I would find it helpful).
BlueXIV
Woo stickied!
This gives me motivation to finish uploading the second half of the crappy video I made
This gives me motivation to finish uploading the second half of the crappy video I made
Duranin
I pretty much only use Paint Tool SAI nowadays. I have Photoshop 7 (it's outdated but it's legit!) for post editing and adding text/borders.
I don't get how people like drawing on very large canvasses, it drives me nuts. I like zooming in as I draw, to 300%+ so I can see each pixel. A single line would cover my whole screen if I did that with a big canvas =w='' My habit originated back when I had a much worse computer and large canvasses would make Photoshop crash.. it's stuck ever since then.
I don't get how people like drawing on very large canvasses, it drives me nuts. I like zooming in as I draw, to 300%+ so I can see each pixel. A single line would cover my whole screen if I did that with a big canvas =w='' My habit originated back when I had a much worse computer and large canvasses would make Photoshop crash.. it's stuck ever since then.
Verene
Well, when you use a larger canvas you don't have to zoom in so far
I suck terribly at drawing on the computer (I don't know why - I have a tablet, but I just can't sketch stuff digitally), so most of my stuff I draw by hand, scan, and then ink/color/etc in PS. So I usually work at a pretty large resolution, and then just resize it down later. Like, right now I'm working on coloring a drawing I did of my sister's ele and I think I'm working at something like 1600x2400 pixels? And that's not even the largest canvas I've used. When I'm doing a digital painting I usually go even larger still.
However, it's also a habit I learned from working on the stuff I post on my dA page - I mostly do stuff like photomanipulations and fractals, and a lot of my stuff I submit as prints, so I need it to be as large as possible.
I suck terribly at drawing on the computer (I don't know why - I have a tablet, but I just can't sketch stuff digitally), so most of my stuff I draw by hand, scan, and then ink/color/etc in PS. So I usually work at a pretty large resolution, and then just resize it down later. Like, right now I'm working on coloring a drawing I did of my sister's ele and I think I'm working at something like 1600x2400 pixels? And that's not even the largest canvas I've used. When I'm doing a digital painting I usually go even larger still.
However, it's also a habit I learned from working on the stuff I post on my dA page - I mostly do stuff like photomanipulations and fractals, and a lot of my stuff I submit as prints, so I need it to be as large as possible.
Duranin
But I like seeing each pixelllllll >o>
Also, it might just be my unsteady hand but I can't do large curves at higher sizes. I just can't. It turns out wobbly ... and I know a lot of people lineart using the pen tool (which I don't think exists on SAI) but I like drawing normally with (tablet) pen and (canvas) paper, at actual size instead of shrinking down later (which makes things blurry!).
lul, nobody would ever buy a print from me >.>
Also, it might just be my unsteady hand but I can't do large curves at higher sizes. I just can't. It turns out wobbly ... and I know a lot of people lineart using the pen tool (which I don't think exists on SAI) but I like drawing normally with (tablet) pen and (canvas) paper, at actual size instead of shrinking down later (which makes things blurry!).
lul, nobody would ever buy a print from me >.>
BlueXIV
I have a terribly unsteady hand. What I do is work on a huge canvas at around 50% zoom, then zoom in at 100% to add detail, then when I'm done with the painting, I just resize it down so 50%-70% is what it's viewed at. This way I don't have to see a pixelated picture :P
And I like my photoshop brushes too much to use SAI
And I like my photoshop brushes too much to use SAI
eeks
I've started do draw stuff without lines recently, and found it pretty fun.
... Well, not quite recently, as the laptop I used my tablet on is beyond repair. But still!
My initial lineart (how I was going to go about it), but then I decided to try without lines.
Wound up liking it, though I have obvious problems with shading. Can't finish it now though, as I think it's gone down with my laptop. ACK.
Was also proud of foregoing the blending tool for once, as I was constantly using it.
Love the hair tips, Nian.
... Well, not quite recently, as the laptop I used my tablet on is beyond repair. But still!
My initial lineart (how I was going to go about it), but then I decided to try without lines.
Wound up liking it, though I have obvious problems with shading.
Can't finish it now though, as I think it's gone down with my laptop. ACK.Was also proud of foregoing the blending tool for once, as I was constantly using it.
Love the hair tips, Nian.