Fix the ai
MMSDome
Why are heros not kiting from aoe? Did anet install a stupid chip in them so they stand in it and goof off while they die and refuse to heal?
Scary
You sounds like a AI 
arcanemacabre
If you're talking about them not running from Ray of Judgment, that is a known bug currently. Any other AoE, I dunno...
MMSDome
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Originally Posted by arcanemacabre
If you're talking about them not running from Ray of Judgment, that is a known bug currently. Any other AoE, I dunno...
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I want them to actually move out of the aoe and not run around inside acting as if they are trying.
Daesu
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Originally Posted by MMSDome
No I am talking about all aoe in general. They run around as if they are going to kite the aoe nad don't heal so they just die. These are heros.
I want them to actually move out of the aoe and not run around inside acting as if they are trying. |
Yes hero AI is inferior to even a novice player when it comes to AoE, if that bothers you, you need to find some good human players to join your team.
Bulk Chest
Atm im always using flags to get heros out of AoE. Its true they sometimes dont run out of it, or whant to finish casting long spells etc. If you can use flags, you can get them out of it faster than they normaly would anyway(if they would at all).
MMSDome
No I am talking about heros in general. Hero Battles in general. My monk will stand around in aoe and not cast, no melee. Monk hero.
Any other heros are the same shit AI as well. I flag jin to go one place and runs in the opposite direction with no skill checked and no skill waiting to be used, just decides to run off on its own.
Any other heros are the same shit AI as well. I flag jin to go one place and runs in the opposite direction with no skill checked and no skill waiting to be used, just decides to run off on its own.
superraptors
there called heros for a reason cause they can handle that aoe anyday
there so damn brave
________
Teen European
there so damn brave
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Teen European
Gun Pierson
The best option would be to have a 'Kite' button so you have the choice to activate it or not. In certain situations I don't want them to move away too far as they could agro other groups.
At this moment there are two ways to solve the problem: You flag them or you move yourself so they follow you and step out of the aoe damage.
At this moment there are two ways to solve the problem: You flag them or you move yourself so they follow you and step out of the aoe damage.
MirkoTeran
Bad AI is the source of so many problems in this game (and many others) its not even funny anymore. Its seen in both heroes (Oh yeah, lets run around in AoE) and enemies (lets all attack this 'tank', even if we can't hurt him, while bunch of soft targets stand just outside our aggro).
Sure, hero AI can be 'fixed' using skill micromanagment and flagging, but what about enemy AI?
I doubt ANet can do much about it now, aside from some quick hacks. But it would be nice if this was somehow resolved in GW2. One system I would *really* like to see is 'user designed AI'. They could expose a public API for AI scripting in on of the scripting languages, that would run on client-side. This way some users could create their own AI profiles and share them (PvX for AI?) for others to use. ANet could even grab the ones that perform the best and use them for enemy AI. Yeah... I can dream.
Sure, hero AI can be 'fixed' using skill micromanagment and flagging, but what about enemy AI?
I doubt ANet can do much about it now, aside from some quick hacks. But it would be nice if this was somehow resolved in GW2. One system I would *really* like to see is 'user designed AI'. They could expose a public API for AI scripting in on of the scripting languages, that would run on client-side. This way some users could create their own AI profiles and share them (PvX for AI?) for others to use. ANet could even grab the ones that perform the best and use them for enemy AI. Yeah... I can dream.
AmbientMelody
Mobs shouldn't be brainless but henchies and heroes should. Finally people will resort to some sort of actual teamwork then.
Gli
I just flag them when it happens. But annoyingly, flagging is awkward as well. I mapped the 4 flags to keys for fast access, but it can take a bit of time for the mouse pointer to go into flagging mode after pressing a key. Sometimes I press one of my flag keys and left-click too fast which results in hero(es) not moving and my next left-click to put the flag where I don't want it.
Trinity Fire Angel
I have found that you just need to move. Ie. you move somewhere and they will move out of the AoE.
and HM AI seems to kite AoE better than NM AoE (talking about monsters here). ie. Mr. Firestorm Ele in HM = dead team = monk raging at ele for not kiting and for bringing Firestorm.
--- edit --- and ROJ shouldn;t cause AoE scatter cause Monks delivering holy judgement upon evil monsters is the gods way of saying "die evil NPC monsters"
and HM AI seems to kite AoE better than NM AoE (talking about monsters here). ie. Mr. Firestorm Ele in HM = dead team = monk raging at ele for not kiting and for bringing Firestorm.
--- edit --- and ROJ shouldn;t cause AoE scatter cause Monks delivering holy judgement upon evil monsters is the gods way of saying "die evil NPC monsters"
pumpkin pie
Since this is never gonna be fixed, i've since discover that, when ai are in range of aoe, it is good to 1) not move at all, 2) mouse click somewhere outside of the aoe.
1) If you do not move, the chances of healer ai making a successful heal is greater then if you make them move away, because ai don't use skill when they are executing command from the player.
2) mouse click/flag for them to move outside of the aoe range, do this only when you are playing a healer and are sure you can heal them while they are receiving command from player and cannot execute any skills.
Last and most effective resort, make a detail record of what is happening and report to mr Joe Kimmes, he is a darling in dealing with ai problems, be specific he will look into it for sure.
1) If you do not move, the chances of healer ai making a successful heal is greater then if you make them move away, because ai don't use skill when they are executing command from the player.
2) mouse click/flag for them to move outside of the aoe range, do this only when you are playing a healer and are sure you can heal them while they are receiving command from player and cannot execute any skills.
Last and most effective resort, make a detail record of what is happening and report to mr Joe Kimmes, he is a darling in dealing with ai problems, be specific he will look into it for sure.
Dre
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Originally Posted by Bulk Chest
Atm im always using flags to get heros out of AoE. Its true they sometimes dont run out of it, or whant to finish casting long spells etc. If you can use flags, you can get them out of it faster than they normaly would anyway(if they would at all).
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just flag your heroes outside the AoE
/solved
obsidian ectoplasm
its a badddd bug
The Arching Healer
Hero's AI is fine for pve, so why would Anet even bother? Dome I know ur a high ranked HB'er (or was, haven't followed the ladder for a while). I Hb a lot aswell (10+ matches a day) and I just flag them out of the AoE.
MithranArkanere
There should be two types of AI: instintive and intelligent.
A behemoth, a creeping carp or an ntouka should not be aware of a character is being a healer. They should just attack the nearst thing that is damaging them, or the thing that damages them more.
But humanoids and intelligent creatures should be more aware and select targets.
But it seems that all NPCs behave the same way, even regardless of their profession, just changing their behavior depending on the weapon they equip, the skills they have and their health and energy.
That's a bit weird.
A behemoth, a creeping carp or an ntouka should not be aware of a character is being a healer. They should just attack the nearst thing that is damaging them, or the thing that damages them more.
But humanoids and intelligent creatures should be more aware and select targets.
But it seems that all NPCs behave the same way, even regardless of their profession, just changing their behavior depending on the weapon they equip, the skills they have and their health and energy.
That's a bit weird.
shoyon456
Earlier today after I died and respawned, the henchies and heroes Leeroy'd into a mob to heal an already powered down Golem. I flagged them back in the middle of their death march, but it didnt even make them slow down.
And yeah, I know about the AI thing, which is why I usually try to take all the aggro and keep henchies/heros flagged back.
And yeah, I know about the AI thing, which is why I usually try to take all the aggro and keep henchies/heros flagged back.
Nerel
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Originally Posted by pumpkin pie
(snip)....because ai don't use skill when they are executing command from the player.
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Eragon Zarroc
idk, how retarded is human intelligence to not use the flags and flag heros out of aoe? prolly just as bad as hero AI eh?
Gift3d
There's no reason heroes shouldn't kite out of aoe, because monsters in hm kite away at 60mph as soon as you even think of looking at an aoe skill to use it.
Seraphim Angel
Yes hero AI is broken and needs to be addressed BUT be careful what you wish for. If you want the heros to kite then next thing you know thats all they will do is run around and over aggro more than they already do. Your monk will run straight to 4 warriors and get pwned hard in seconds just to get out of AoE. I wish heros AI was as good as thier interrupt ability *sigh*
aoeclald
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| and enemies (lets all attack this 'tank', even if we can't hurt him, while bunch of soft targets stand just outside our aggro). |
Anyway, everyone always complains about how heroes are not as smart as humans. If that's the case, find a human player, learn to micro your heroes (c'mon, you're human, you're smart enough to play 4 bars at once, as well as move them all!) or find ways to counter hero AI deficiency by bringing skills that will help your cause. For example, bring Mantra of Flame to reduce the damage taken and gain energy, therefore standing in AoE could be somewhat beneficial. On that not, STOP COMPLAINING! You are the one at fault, not heroes.
MMSDome
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Originally Posted by Trinity Fire Angel
I have found that you just need to move. Ie. you move somewhere and they will move out of the AoE.
and HM AI seems to kite AoE better than NM AoE (talking about monsters here). ie. Mr. Firestorm Ele in HM = dead team = monk raging at ele for not kiting and for bringing Firestorm. --- edit --- and ROJ shouldn;t cause AoE scatter cause Monks delivering holy judgement upon evil monsters is the gods way of saying "die evil NPC monsters" |
Seriously try it see how you do every time someone tries to lay a spike on a character with shit tons of aoe. If you flag them out you can't macro the healing skills because they wait to get to the flagged position to cast so either way you will die.
Flagging out does not work.
MirkoTeran
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Originally Posted by aoeclald
Errr, Guild Wars is very bad about this compared to other MMO's, in fact I am thinking you have a jewel of a tank. A lot of the times, mobs will run BY the tank into casters. Also, the purpose of having a tank to begin with is to take damage so the squishies don't die. If you have ever played any other MMO's, then you'll come to find that tanks come with threat-generating skills in order to hold aggro for this very purpose of having everyone else staying alive. What's the purpose of playing a squishy if you're just going to get one-shotted by every boss because you have nothing to take the damage?
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upier
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Originally Posted by Gift3d
There's no reason heroes shouldn't kite out of aoe, because monsters in hm kite away at 60mph as soon as you even think of looking at an aoe skill to use it.
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One of those precious moments that makes me cherish GW.
aoeclald
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Originally Posted by MirkoTeran
Other games being worse in this area doesn't make GW AI good. It just makes it a bit better then theirs. But in any case AI in most MMOs is non-existant (at least compared to some SP games). Its like winning special Olympics.
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Gli
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Originally Posted by aoeclald
You read it backwards. I am saying that Guild Wars AI is worse than other games. Sorry for being unclear.
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You meant GW's mobs, right? And that's worse than most games?
Bluefeather
OMG!!! I finished all the campaigns and GWEN in 5 characters and I didnt notice that my Heroes are not avoiding AoE.
LOL I think i am dumber than Heroes coz i really dont run away from AoE.
Really, i never noticed that Heroes are that bad. I just finished the game with my latest character -- NECRO. My main hero setup is not even Sabway or Discord way, I have 2 mm and Dunk and i usually end up fine. Completed Protector of Tyria and Cantha and thinking to do Protector of Elonia too (but im now more interested in Ele which I have already started yesterday.)
I have finished the game with my Warrior, Ranger, Monk and Paragon using only H/H and didnt have so much problem with AoE.
LOL I think i am dumber than Heroes coz i really dont run away from AoE.
Really, i never noticed that Heroes are that bad. I just finished the game with my latest character -- NECRO. My main hero setup is not even Sabway or Discord way, I have 2 mm and Dunk and i usually end up fine. Completed Protector of Tyria and Cantha and thinking to do Protector of Elonia too (but im now more interested in Ele which I have already started yesterday.)
I have finished the game with my Warrior, Ranger, Monk and Paragon using only H/H and didnt have so much problem with AoE.
Trinity Fire Angel
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
There should be two types of AI: instintive and intelligent.
A behemoth, a creeping carp or an ntouka should not be aware of a character is being a healer. They should just attack the nearst thing that is damaging them, or the thing that damages them more. But humanoids and intelligent creatures should be more aware and select targets. |
MirkoTeran
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Originally Posted by aoeclald
You read it backwards. I am saying that Guild Wars AI is worse than other games. Sorry for being unclear.
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Aera
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Originally Posted by Gift3d
There's no reason heroes shouldn't kite out of aoe, because monsters in hm kite away at 60mph as soon as you even think of looking at an aoe skill to use it.
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Shadowmere
on another random note about hero AI, i've noticed lately that when I have the whole group of h/h flagged and unflag them while standing a distance away from them, half or more of the group will run in the opposite direction of me for a ways before realizing it or something and turning around...it's yet to get me killed but I can see it causing some very nasty unexpected over-aggroing. Especially so when you consider that most of the set up for this situation is common longbow pulling procedure (flag heroes, go ahead and take a cheap shot at the baddies, run back/unflag)
tasha
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Originally Posted by Gli
I don't get it... You say that "A lot of the times, mobs will run BY the tank into casters."
You meant GW's mobs, right? And that's worse than most games? |
I personally don't have a problem with this system and kinda like it, but I can see where it frustrates people. Especially when they're used to an aggro system.
Gli
Yeah, I got that... but I would call that better AI than the AI in games that don't do this. Not worse.
Burst Cancel
If you're playing in hero battles, you need to be flagging your heroes. The entire point of that format is hero micro; if you aren't going to do it, don't play. It's like playing Starcraft with ctrl-click only and then wondering why you keep losing.
The concepts of tanking and aggro need to exit gaming entirely. I'm not sure where the farce of "oh, monsters will just ignore the soft and chewy targets nuking the shit out of them, and focus entirely on the heavily armored and heavily enchanted guy in front that does no damage" originated (perhaps from the warrior + mage combos in fantasy novels?), but it needs to die.
The concepts of tanking and aggro need to exit gaming entirely. I'm not sure where the farce of "oh, monsters will just ignore the soft and chewy targets nuking the shit out of them, and focus entirely on the heavily armored and heavily enchanted guy in front that does no damage" originated (perhaps from the warrior + mage combos in fantasy novels?), but it needs to die.