Weakest/Hardest classes to PvE with

Windf0rce

Windf0rce

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

Myself and my brother are going to try a self imposed challenge now that we are pretty much done with our main characters now (not GWAMM, but all of PvE is beat).

Everyone claims "PvE is easy" and can be rolled with any class, so we want something more difficult and wanted to pick the weakest class(es) to finish PvE (including hard mode) with.

We'll mostly play 2 of us together with 6 heroes. We might add further handicaps, such as not learn any Elite or PvE skills, not use Necro Heroes or any Heroes at all, just H/H. Getting Legendary Survivor is a given, we'll delete any characters that die in the way, and we are not allowed to farm XP.

I was thinking Ritualist would be a pretty difficult class, as they are squishy and their primary attribute is very weak, giving basically no advantage over other classes.

Suggestions on classes and handicaps please. Either 2 different professions (that hopefully won't synergize well at all), or same profession for me and my brother.

Gift3d

Gift3d

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2007

Las Vegas

Enraged Whiny Carebears [oR]

W/E

pve skills make any class strong, here's a rit example

assassin's promise
spirit rift
you move like a dwarf
ebon vanguard assassin
by ural's hammer
splinter weapon
ancestor's rage

etc etc. if you want a real handicap just don't use pve skills.

Megas XLR

Megas XLR

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2009

D/W

Dervishes - Sadly, don't do as much damage and has less defensive capabilities all around compared to Assassin and Warrior. Frankly, I did everything with my Dervish and it wasn't all that hard.

Elementalists - Damage isn't armor ignoring compared to Mesmer/Monk/Necro, very noticeable in HM.

The best classes to play for PvE are Paragon, Assassin/Warrior (preference), and Necromancer. Honestly, everything is good at PvE though, some classes just overshadow others.

faraaz

Banned

Join Date: Feb 2008

India

Hey Mallyx [icU]

A/

To be very honest, atm, I think the weaker class is Ranger or Ritualist..not so much in PvE NM, but HM. Rangers re like, jack of all trades, master of none. I'm not saying Rangers are bad. I'm just saying, compared to all the other professions, Rangers arent the strongest option.

anders_O

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2009

Norway

Eight reasons you [Lost]

W/E

Well in my opinion most classes don't get alot harder in HM, they just get less fun due to less dps. As people over me have said pve is easy no matter what class as long as you have pve skills. I imagine playing a mesmer or rit without pve only skills would be the hardest. Im sure you can find yourself useful, but it will be harder because both classes focus heavily on pve only skills (especially mesmer).
I have played derv quite a bit in both nm and hm, and to be honest it's not really hardet to play them in hm, its simply less fun due to the low damage. You usually end up letting your heroes do the main damage while you just run around doing exactly the same as in nm, but doing less dps.

Just my 2 copper zaishen coins..

majikmajikmajik

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2007

SATown~Tx

Guild Hopper!

R/

my opinion, if you want the ulti GW challenge, play from prophecies->factions->nightfall->eotn. cant use heroes til nightfall(this includes zenmai and olias) play prophecies till acsension(lvl20 basicly) and then start on hm... good luck playing with people is incouraged(they can use their heroes) but this is all honor rules and is only limited by your own urge for difficulty and imagination.

sonofthort

sonofthort

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2006

The Legends Of Melee [SSBM]

Mo/

It's kind of a tricky thing determining which class is the weakest in PvE, as they all have there ups and downs. For the most part, sins aren't too good in PvE unless they have shadow form or maybe flashing blades. I remember when factions first arrived there were so many assasins around and nobody wanted them in there groups cus they sucked, they had a tendency to just die, and really do nothing for the group. Ritualists I would think are a pretty weak class for PvE, but then again they can heal, which gives them some advantages over other classes. Rangers can be pretty strong even without elites like barrage. They have powerful single target attacks, you can make combos like mark of rodgort conjure flame kindle arrows dual shot with a vampiric bow, without using any elites, or channeling magic combos like splinter weapon or nightmare weapon, and also use good evasion and running skills. Warriors and paragons are both pretty good cus of there armor and defenses, as well as damage capabilities. Mesmers have typically been a rare breed in pve, but now adays they are useful with there armor ignoring damage and abilities to nuke better than ele's, but without some of the skills that allow them to nuke they are pretty weak in pve. I would have to say it is between assasin, mesmer, and ritualist.

Jaigoda

Jaigoda

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2007

IGN Eat Scythes

Ranger or Rit is the worst class in the game.

Monk is potentially the hardest profession in the game.

And if you're going to go for Legendary Survivor without farming, I'd say you've given yourself a difficult enough goal.

Squishy ftw

Squishy ftw

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

Your backline

W/

proph only skills on you + heroes, go monk. Heal, no smite.

sonofthort

sonofthort

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2006

The Legends Of Melee [SSBM]

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squishy ftw View Post
proph only skills on you + heroes, go monk. Heal, no smite. Judging by his avatar I would say his first char was a monk

AtomicMew

AtomicMew

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

N/A

There's plenty of areas that are difficult for anyone wihtout deliberately gimping yourself, especially with only 2 man heroway. Try UW, FOW, DOA, Urgoz, etc.

When people say "PvE is easy" they just mean 99% of it is. I wouldn't say that everything is easy though.

poasiods

poasiods

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2008

R/

Rangers may seem 'bad' to tards who can't look beyond OP PvE gimmick skills, but they can be crucial to the party's survival by interrupting/dazing the mobs' main nukers or healers. Playing Ranger correctly in PvE wouldn't make things all that difficult for you at all. Some of the more ridiculous groups you'd usually end up trying to over-power and out-heal would go down more easily with dazed healers and nukers.

If you're remaking your characters everytime you die, I'd suggest Warriors. You'll mostly be depending on other party members for heals, making it pretty easy to get killed once in awhile. If your hench healer decides to cast Healing Breeze on you while you're getting your ass stomped, that'd be game over for you right there. Sounds like fun, eh?

Hanging Man

Hanging Man

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2006

Deep in the Shire

I'd say that ele would be the hardest profession.
because they work wonderfully in nm but you do notice you'll be playing more defensive than offensive.
their dps is extremely weak due to all the enemies extremely high armor.
I like this idea
GL & godspeed

Faure

Faure

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2006

Mystic Spiral [MYST]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by faraaz
View Post
To be very honest, atm, I think the weaker class is Ranger or Ritualist..not so much in PvE NM, but HM. Rangers re like, jack of all trades, master of none. I'm not saying Rangers are bad. I'm just saying, compared to all the other professions, Rangers arent the strongest option. disclaimer: i'm not takin pve only skills in account

I think BHA would disagree. Apart from PvE skills it's a very good (and only) option to daze monks, who especially in Hm are not an easy catch for interrupting with mesmer interrupts (or bow interupts for that matter).

I personally think mesmers are the hardest class to play. It's very difficult to make yourself useful. Interrupts i think rangers do better because they can interrupt more often. Ele's do the damage, together with necro's if they are specced to it. Warriors tank, and monks heal. A mesmer can slow doen (ele's water magic), interrupt (rangers bow) or shutdown (no counter from other classes) and degen/e-denial which i both don't value in pve, with L30 mobs and as it seems nonstop energy. Though, a good mesmer with a build suited to the situation can be very usefull if played by an experienced player. Ineptitude-based builds can be nice, though i might opt for a blinding surge ele/anti-melee necro.
I would say even rit and para are quite 'easy' to play, since you have a very clear task. As a rit or paragon you either healsupport or dmgsupport (imo same, since it's mostly the same attributerange). Not necessarily usefull but not hard to do. Again, I'm not taking pve skills into account here, so things like mobilespirits or imbagon don't apply here.

An easy class imo to start with is necro or ranger. They don't have the MOST important tasks in a group, but still are useful. Warrior seems easy but a team stands or falls with a good frontliner. Monks same. Necromancers Minions or curses are very usefull, but if you suck at it or need to get the hang of the class, your party won't die (unless you really are bad, but then any class is hard). Same with rangers, but instead of being useful when you are bad, you are more survivable and therefore can prevent a partywhipe (if you have a res).

Mikkelet

Mikkelet

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2008

Rt/

(for all who thinks rits are weak!)
I go for rits. Ofc assas got the permasin build and such, but I find ritualist rather funny to play. People just say they're weak because they've never tried a rit with a good build. Spirits+painful bond = good armor ignoring damage. Destructive was Glaive and any rit dmg spell = good dmg, too. All the healing spells heals for about 100 (spirit light, MBaS and Soothing memories). plus inremovable (sp?) weapon spells for o.k. protection (you can always combine with other proffs.). Spirit's Strenght for superior dmg!

their ways are countless, but difficult to find. And yes, they do a good job in HM, too.

I also got a ranger actually. With the Quick Shot Needling strategy (found on gamependium), HM is piece of cake, too. +plus splinter barrage is awsome!

I do not think you can define weak and strong proffs.
Rit vs. assa = permasin vs. rit who AoE dmg.
Ranger vs. warrior = tanker vs. blocker (and perhabs trapper, I'unno)

and so on...

faraaz

Banned

Join Date: Feb 2008

India

Hey Mallyx [icU]

A/

To poasiods, Faure, Rivenheart...clearly you did not read my post:

Allow me to requote, for your reading pleasure, in bold.

Quote:
I'm not saying Rangers are bad. I'm just saying, compared to all the other professions, Rangers arent the strongest option.
If you speak any other native language I can translate.

Btw, for everyone saying rangers are pro interrupters etc...imo knockdown is a better interrupt. =]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaigoda
View Post
And if you're going to go for Legendary Survivor without farming, I'd say you've given yourself a difficult enough goal. Did it on my warrior...not too hard if you take a bonder with you everywhere you go.

Expherious

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2007

Wolfenstein Fuel Dump

Melandru's Elite Hunters [Hunt]

D/

Dervs are weak and are outplayed by the other melees
rangers are extremely boring
I loved playing mezzies b4 CoP.

Betrayer of Wind

Betrayer of Wind

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2008

Brazil

Agents of Indecision[meh]

Me/

I'd sugest playing mesmer without pve skills,since its alot of fun and tactical,and u'll have alot of trainning trying to interrupt on HM ^^

Rangers are also very fun to play with due to their versatility,so alot of options for team builds since they can run basically any weapon and tank fairly effective.

Henchies arent fun,so i'd defently use heroes to make alot of mixed builds and stuff.

Ritualist,they are very good suportive characters,can give good party wide heals,a spirit spam build can do a huge DPS on HM,and splinter weapon is just too good to not bring if using any physical characters on the party.

Is true that they dont have alot of versatility using other profession skills besides spirit strenght builds.even tho its not highly effective either,so yeah its kinda of a boring profession after u play a couple builds and not many options left.


Challenges are meant to be enjoyable,so dont limit yourself too much imo,but be creative about the team builds u gonna use,like lets say 8x HaO rangers?IWAY warriors?FC nukers?idk ill leave it up to you lol

poasiods

poasiods

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2008

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by faraaz
View Post
To poasiods, Faure, Rivenheart...clearly you did not read my post:

Allow me to requote, for your reading pleasure, in bold.



If you speak any other native language I can translate.

Btw, for everyone saying rangers are pro interrupters etc...imo knockdown is a better interrupt. =] In future, I would recommend that you pay more attention to see if you're actually making a valid claim with support. All I see are one post containing vague claims and another post with more vagueness and attempts at trying to be offensive while wanting to look clever.

Now, if you would kindly hold it in and tell everyone why it is that you think rangers are "jack of all trades and master of none" but "not the strongest option compared to other classes," that'd be much nicer, don't you think? To make it easier for you, good examples of would be something like, "unless there are serious investments into certain attributes, rangers typically fall in middle of all classes when it comes to damage or survivability. However, some of their abilities such as applying conditions and interrupting are not universal to all classes. These attributes give me the impression that although rangers may not be over the top at certain things, their wide variety of applications make them the jack of all trades and master of none."

Now, isn't that so much better than blurting something out and just re-quoting it in another post?

Of course, quoting that silly thing you said against what others said about the importance of dazing in HM shows that you didn't really intake what you read. There are three posts explaining why BHA ranger is one of the most important elements to include in HM, and you waltz in here to quote yourself saying they aren't really a strong option compared to other classes. Excuse me, I'm gonna /facepalm and go pass out.

Chthon

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Apr 2007

Rit is the weakest class, followed by Derv. Both are strictly inferior to other options for their roles.

Monk is now strictly inferior to Ele at being a monk, but most people haven't noticed yet.

Ele and Ranger are both one-trick ponies, Ele at being a monk and Ranger at dazed.

The remaining classes are all capable of strong builds.

FaiLeD

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2009

We Have Cookies

Rt/

What about paragon when did they become better than dervish and ranger unless we all just forgot about them. And don't even say that they have impagon cuz that boring as crap. So yea I think paragon would be a tough class because they have not the greatest elites, and you won't be useing pve skills. Also personaly I think there damage is crap. Support is decent and can't do anything else except dance. Not to mention how hard it will be to get into parties especialy on HM. Altho paragons have a good primary attribute.

If you don't like paragon then it would probly be ritulaist. I've beating a lot of guild wars with a ritualist fairly easy and one build I'm using doesn't even need the elite and it kicks donkey. Personaly the only bad thing about ritualist is that spawning power is pretty useless and they can usually be better as a N/Rt.

But good luck with what ever you choose. ;-)

Axel Zinfandel

Axel Zinfandel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2007

Northeastern Ohio

LaZy

P/W

Weakest - Ritualist, Dervish, Ranger (in that order)
Hardest - active prot monk in PvE, mesmer using no PvE skills, Assassin not using MS/DB, or scythe builds (or any crit weapon builds. I mean legit attack chains)

Fuzzie

Fuzzie

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2008

Mo/

Ritualist worst. Perma sin best.

Arad Lightbringer

Arad Lightbringer

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2009

Dark Phoenix Risin

Mo/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon View Post
Rit is the weakest class, followed by Derv. Both are strictly inferior to other options for their roles.

Monk is now strictly inferior to Ele at being a monk, but most people haven't noticed yet.

Ele and Ranger are both one-trick ponies, Ele at being a monk and Ranger at dazed.

The remaining classes are all capable of strong builds. Monks are inferior to elementalists at healing? In what way? The special attribute of an elementalist, energy storage, gives you more energy yes, but any monk that knows what (s)he's doing will tell you that energy doesnt = win. I AVIDLY play my monk, with my other characters basically around to bring in some extra coin, and as of now, I can honestly say I have little to no trouble keeping a party alive with the energy I have. To be candid, I'd take the extra ~30 health per spell of divine favor over 20-30 extra energy any day.

But on to the matter at hand; To be honest, I think Anet did a fairly decent job at keeping all of the classes even in terms of skill to play. However, never having played as a ritualist or a paragon in HM, I couldn't accurately tell you if they would be as balanced. Out of the classes I HAVE played though, I find the assassin to be one of the most challenging. Fairly squishy to begin with, the assassin is, in my own personal opinion, inept at killing multiple enemies in quick succession.

With the exception of any perma-sin builds (and the odd Moebius or Assassin's Promise setup), the assassin's need to use dagger attacks in a certain order renders quick kills nearly impossible, as the assassin in question would have to wait for the recharge of the first skill to begin killing again. Assassins have their place in PvE, but to me it doesnt seem to lie with the killing of mobs that is demanded.

ElnoreVarda

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2008

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arad Lightbringer View Post
Monks are inferior to elementalists at healing? In what way? Ether renewal says hi! Imagine your prot spirit and spirit bond cost 0 energy and woh healed for twice as much, with no recharge and 1/4 cast time. Its free too, btw.


Suggestions handicaps:

Never change builds, neither you or your heroes.
Use max X skills on skillbar instead of 8.
Play a full healing wammo.
Play when drunk/high irl.
PUG all missons.

Kendel

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2009

Ritualists have next to no real use in HM. There are spirit builds that can kick out some great DPS but its so easy to kill them. Weapon spells? Yeah like 1 or 2 extra seconds is gonna matter on the longer duration ones, assuming you bother speccing Spawning. The offensive/healing side is just sub par to a real monk, alot of reliance on spirits or items.

Arad... just what the hell are you smoking? Theres a variety of short recharge chains around for dagger sins, mostly involving Death Blossom, assuming you even bother with daggers... Scythe is far better in general. Thanks to Critical Agility they are easily 1 of the strongest melee classes in terms of DPS and Defences gives them very good tanking capabilities (within reason).

Owik Gall

Owik Gall

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

Guardians of the Light

W/Mo

Try completing your goals as a devote Mesmer, without using any secondary skills, or pve skills. I find that even with the elites it's a challenge to be a mes because you have to be crucial on your actions. Interrupting is an example. Although energy denial isn't like that, however that leaves you open for all sources of attacks, namely melee. (Try that in PvP and you'll be murdered by warriors and sins.) Pure Mesmers are challenging to be because most of the skills requires perfect timing, and those that don't leave you open for a deadly dog piling. Be a Pure Mesmer survivor, and you got a leet goal accomplished.

Faure

Faure

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2006

Mystic Spiral [MYST]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by faraaz
View Post
To poasiods, Faure, Rivenheart...clearly you did not read my post:

Allow me to requote, for your reading pleasure, in bold.



If you speak any other native language I can translate.

Btw, for everyone saying rangers are pro interrupters etc...imo knockdown is a better interrupt. =]



Did it on my warrior...not too hard if you take a bonder with you everywhere you go. But mobs that can't be KD can still be interrupted by rangers =).
Imo rangers are best at interrupting. So let me rephrase the point of my post to make sure you understand as well why i disagree with the part you just bolded:
Rangers are THE BEST OPTION (see i countered your exact sentence there) if you want to interrupt/shutdown casters. They don't rely on spelltargets (mesmer interrupts) or being able to KD (for instance the Dolyak Masters).

And i'm quite curious how you keep a bonder useful in ench-removal heavy areas. I agree that surviving without farming isn't that hard. You just don't need to be lazy or unpatient.

@ the healing ele part; I can imagine it outheals monks, but i still prefer a monk over an ele at anytime. Ele-monks are relying (too) strongly on enchantments for my liking.

faraaz

Banned

Join Date: Feb 2008

India

Hey Mallyx [icU]

A/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faure View Post
But mobs that can't be KD can still be interrupted by rangers =).
So can mesmers

Quote:
THE BEST OPTION agree to disagree?

Quote: Not sure if you read my original posts, but I already mentioned I was talking about classes WITHOUT PvE only skills. Seeing as how most Critscythe builds use 3 PvE skills to function properly, they WEREN'T included in my analysis.



Quote:
And i'm quite curious how you keep a bonder useful in ench-removal heavy areas. Intelligent aggro'ing? Microing prots? Idk...just not being a bad player I guess.

Jarus

Jarus

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2005

Council of Iris

I never really had any more difficulty playing my Rit compared to playing a Warrior or Elementalist. I like variety, and I would say that the Rit is more of a jack-of-all-trades than the Ranger. Healer, Prot, spike, physical damage, or heck even minions, the Rit can do it.

The only thing is that they're not quite as specialized in any of these things, and Spawning Power could really use a buff.

I would submit that the 'hardest' class to play in PVE would probably be the Assassin, providing you don't run a Perma-sin. If you're trying for Legendary Survivor as a 'sin, then GOOD LUCK to ya.

Ranger/Paragon would probably be the most likely to get Legendary Survivor outside of Fronis farming.

Kiluna

Kiluna

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2007

Finland

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arad Lightbringer View Post
Monks are inferior to elementalists at healing? In what way? The special attribute of an elementalist, energy storage, gives you more energy yes, but any monk that knows what (s)he's doing will tell you that energy doesnt = win. I AVIDLY play my monk, with my other characters basically around to bring in some extra coin, and as of now, I can honestly say I have little to no trouble keeping a party alive with the energy I have. To be candid, I'd take the extra ~30 health per spell of divine favor over 20-30 extra energy any day.
He's talking about in this way:
Youtube 1
Youtube 2

RadaArashi

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2007

A/

Well let's see, the definitive no's from a PvE point of view would be Warrior, Necro, Assassin, Ranger, Paragon and Monk.

Warrior and Assassins are the best frontline DPS, Necromancers are ez mode basically with minions and all those fire-and-forget hexes, Rangers have great survability, Paragons are called Imbagons for a reason and Monk well, everybody wants you.

So we're left with Mesmer, Dervish and Ritualist. I'll rule Mesmers out here because, while they're a class that requires skill to be good at in both PvE and PvP, they're pretty damn good with PvE only skills and get builds like [Cry of Pain][Ether Nightmare] and [Signet of Illusions][Arcane Echo][Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support].

Dervishes are not all bad, they're decent frontliners but they tend to be eclipsed by Assassins and Warriors because they don't dish out as much damage. So that leaves us with Ritualists, the Channeling line is pretty weak damage wise, Spirit spam is sort of decent but nothing extraordinary and for Restoration they're inferior to say N/Rt and E/Rt.

Arad Lightbringer

Arad Lightbringer

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2009

Dark Phoenix Risin

Mo/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kendel
View Post
Wtf is the point in debating PvE prowess when you ignore PvE skills, seriously why? Ok, non-profession specific skills like Norn/Vanguard etc and the really overpowered ones like Cry of Pain can be excluded since, unlike Critical Agility, you don't base entire builds off it because its that overpowered (and any class can use it).

The assassin is nowhere near weak in PvE. As for a limited number of builds, whats it matter? If the builds you have let you not only play in but dominate a good portion of PvE even in HM it doesn't matter how little you have to choose from. Hell just yesterday i took my Crit Scythe Sin into UW HM with 3 Heroes and had very few problems clearing the Chambers and finishing my Vengeful Aatxe quest. Not many classes can kick out enough damage to be able to do something like that. I wasn't including PvE skills for the implied notion of using them as a handicap. Critical Agility is, in my own personal opinion, a very powerful PvE only skill, and is the bread and butter of many assassin builds. It isn't necessarily the most PROMINENT skill in a build, as Cry of Pain is, but without it, many builds are rendered inefficient.

When a class uses a limited number of builds, it seems boring to say the least. What's the fun in dominating PvE with a mainstream build? Isn't that why many people are tired of it? Due to its limited supply of ingenuity, combined with less than desirable chain attacks, I personally believe the assassin would be the 'weakest' class of PvE (again, Ritualists and Paragons excluded).
So? Sin is still hardly weak. The OP may ask for handicaps, it doesn't ask for your opinions on how varied the builds available are. The hardest to get Survivor on is clearly going to be Assassin or Dervish, mainly because its easy for accidents to happen when your on the front line. Not being able to run 30 different builds has absolutely no effect on this. My analysis took handicaps into account. If they were not included, it would have been very different. My interpretation of what the original poster wanted was to find a class that would be challenging to play when not using a mainstream build (hence the handicaps on PvE skills). This requires a need to change builds and, frankly, the assassin can't keep up with that.

I completely agree with the fact that getting Survivor on an Assassin would be more difficult than many other classes. I already mentioned they were more squishy than most melee characters.