The title of this thread was not ment to be an insult to the games knowledge of the veteran players. Rather it was ment to attract the attention of those who work hard to give good advice to new players. Though I have been playing Guild Wars for over 9 months now, I have just recently started reaserching different builds and looking for advice for different proffesions. I have learned a lot....mostly I learned at how little I knew. That being said, I would like to part some advice to these great advisors.
All to often I see a thread titled "Guide to playing (X)". Yet the thread rapidly turns into veteran players arguing over each others post. The advice may be sound advice but a new player such as myself gets lost easily in the abbreaveations and nomenclatures used. Plus often the advice seems to be more directed towards more advanced players wishing to tweak thier skills than to actual "New Players"
Please keep in mind new players don't know all the abbreavations and nomenclature used in GW's. Also please keep in mind that a lot of skills disscused are not available to New players. Nothing is more frustrating than to find a reccomended skill or build and find it's not yet accessable, nor will be for a while. New players will often buy only one campaign to try out to see if they wish to continue buying the rest. Just look back at when you were a new player and gear your advice to what you wanted to learn then.
I want to end this post by saying i think this is a great site for learning how to play GW. I hope iI have not offended anybody and that everybody takes this advice from a noob in the spirit it was given. Thank You
Newbie's advice to veteran players.
jayebyrd00
aoeclald
When I first started playing, I did not even know about Guru or pvxwiki at the time, and I had only Factions and Prophecies campaigns. These were the only two out at the time. I think Guru and pvxwiki are more directed at some more experienced players or those who have a better understanding than newbies. The best way to get help in this game, I believe, is to join a guild who supports what you want to do and then get to know some of the better members of said guild.
The first time I got help was from a person who purchased my first set of armor for my necromancer and also led me through my first Deep run and elite mission. I don't think I will forget them, but this is just an example to show that real, generous people are out there even if its just advice over free armor, for example =P
If you need help with anything, feel free to whisper me in-game. My main character's name is listed to the left (Salem Elementalis).
The first time I got help was from a person who purchased my first set of armor for my necromancer and also led me through my first Deep run and elite mission. I don't think I will forget them, but this is just an example to show that real, generous people are out there even if its just advice over free armor, for example =P
If you need help with anything, feel free to whisper me in-game. My main character's name is listed to the left (Salem Elementalis).
dtru89
pvxwiki has campagin specific builds.
Archress Shayleigh
Well, i remember when i first got GW. Proph only. Anyway, there are campaign specific builds in
www.pvxwiki.com
www.pvxwiki.com
Warvic
you are right, guides for beginners should be easyer to understand. but I don't see why noobs need help. I played trough whole propecies as a wammo. (with mending) but I had alot of fun doing it. after 3.5 years of playing i started to look at pvxwiki and guru. and it makes thigns easyer for sure, but not more fun 
Pistachio
stanzhao
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie the reaper
I like the sound of you. It seems like you have exactly the right attitude to become a good player.
One of the things that frustrates me to no end, mostly in PvE and RA is the amount of players who think their build is awesome, when in reality it is terrible. They are unwilling to listen to your factual (not subjective) reasoning as to why it is bad. Most of the time it is virtually impossible to get them to actually realise how bad their builds are due to their lack of knowledge and an ironic consequence of their lack of knowledge is that they think they have A LOT of knowledge (lolol).
For example the other day in RA this guy was talking in local chat about how Warrior/Monks were very good. I pm'ed him telling him that they were garbage and why so. I play Warrior primarily and have done in Top 100 GvG (albeit not consistently) and so I know what i'm talking about. However because I was on a Ranger at the time he simply responded with "ive played since beta kid, you dont know enough about warriors, putting scourage healing on the monk wins games, learn to play".
His attitude his such that he will never improve, as he is unwilling to accept other peoples advice and improve. I have no doubt that he has been playing since beta, which was over 4 years ago and because of his attitude I doubt he has improved at all since then.
I know it's just a game but ignorant comments and people like those infuriate me... i completely understand where your coming from. but dont forget that PvE is subjective. people like the ones you mentioned above are clearly bad at the game. but why havent they quit playing if they are so bad? because i imagine pve allows them to feel good.
and yes, the first steps to becoming a better player is understanding how little you know, and how much you need to learn. people like the OP are players that i have a lot of time for, and often are people that i end up helping doing different things.
and while i do love farming faction in RA, i wont ever call someone a nub, or a douche for having a bad build. just ask them why they use that build. if they give some spiel about it being uber and it kills nubs and i can see that he's a warrior with WoH i just dont reply.
heroes and hench dont rage or shout at players, or tell them they suck... although, sometimes i feel dunkoro looking at me with those /sigh eyes when we get party wiped... so unless players actually want to learn and get better, they never will. because pve, and now overpowered pve skills, allows bad players to succeed.
One of the things that frustrates me to no end, mostly in PvE and RA is the amount of players who think their build is awesome, when in reality it is terrible. They are unwilling to listen to your factual (not subjective) reasoning as to why it is bad. Most of the time it is virtually impossible to get them to actually realise how bad their builds are due to their lack of knowledge and an ironic consequence of their lack of knowledge is that they think they have A LOT of knowledge (lolol).
For example the other day in RA this guy was talking in local chat about how Warrior/Monks were very good. I pm'ed him telling him that they were garbage and why so. I play Warrior primarily and have done in Top 100 GvG (albeit not consistently) and so I know what i'm talking about. However because I was on a Ranger at the time he simply responded with "ive played since beta kid, you dont know enough about warriors, putting scourage healing on the monk wins games, learn to play".
His attitude his such that he will never improve, as he is unwilling to accept other peoples advice and improve. I have no doubt that he has been playing since beta, which was over 4 years ago and because of his attitude I doubt he has improved at all since then.
I know it's just a game but ignorant comments and people like those infuriate me... i completely understand where your coming from. but dont forget that PvE is subjective. people like the ones you mentioned above are clearly bad at the game. but why havent they quit playing if they are so bad? because i imagine pve allows them to feel good.
and yes, the first steps to becoming a better player is understanding how little you know, and how much you need to learn. people like the OP are players that i have a lot of time for, and often are people that i end up helping doing different things.
and while i do love farming faction in RA, i wont ever call someone a nub, or a douche for having a bad build. just ask them why they use that build. if they give some spiel about it being uber and it kills nubs and i can see that he's a warrior with WoH i just dont reply.
heroes and hench dont rage or shout at players, or tell them they suck... although, sometimes i feel dunkoro looking at me with those /sigh eyes when we get party wiped... so unless players actually want to learn and get better, they never will. because pve, and now overpowered pve skills, allows bad players to succeed.
Helix Dreadlock
You are correct, most veteran's perfer to argue, or post on build and forget about it. However, I remember being a noobie, and not even know what the fruck to do in the game, and I made it only so far and quit for 6 months or so. Now that I know what the hell I'm doing, I like to share my advice. When I post builds, I try to find the best suited skill(s)
(elites included) that newer players can get. However, you may be able to purchase a tome, but that may be a little expensive for newer players. Btw, if you wan't to get ahead of the game, and make a lot of money, ONLY BUY THE ESSENTIALS!!! don't buy anything you don't need, or you'll have a hard time getting along :P
(elites included) that newer players can get. However, you may be able to purchase a tome, but that may be a little expensive for newer players. Btw, if you wan't to get ahead of the game, and make a lot of money, ONLY BUY THE ESSENTIALS!!! don't buy anything you don't need, or you'll have a hard time getting along :P
Eddie Frenzy Spam
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanzhao
i completely understand where your coming from. but dont forget that PvE is subjective. people like the ones you mentioned above are clearly bad at the game. but why havent they quit playing if they are so bad? because i imagine pve allows them to feel good.
PvE isn't subjective either. The only way it differs is that you can get away with running bad builds. They're still bad, but you can still complete missions. This doesn't make it subjective, it just makes it easy.
jayebyrd00
I thankyou all who have posted replies supportive of my views. I was pleasantly surprised at the lack of flamming. Hope this has opened the eyes of those who truly wish to help and just not show off their knowledge. please close?
Rhamia Darigaz
if you want to learn pve just play the game. you'll get by, probably join a small guild run by someone slightly more experienced than you (whom you will, at the time, think is the master of guild wars) who will teach you what he knows and you'll go off exploring and learning together.
eventually you'll realize the guy you're with sucks; he's pretty much peaked out on the "how good i'll be at guild wars" graph. plus, he was racist: not just the normal type of racist person who'll hang out with you if you're not his least favorite ethnicity, but the type of racist person who is always talking about how he thinks black people are the problem with his community even though you've tried to hint to him how ridiculously stupid he sounds every time he gets in what you've come to call his "ultimate bigotry mode". so anyway, after realizing that the retarded bigot leader of your two man guild is terrible at guild wars you'll leave the guild (don't worry, he'll log on about twice within the next year and come ask you for gold so he can use this leet new build he just made up but eventually you'll tell him how much of a douche he is and youll never hear from him again)
then you'll join one of those big guilds that farms faction or one that does speed clears every night and thinks calling it PWNZILLA is cool. you'll soon have had enough of that and realize what a bunch of 12-year-old (physically or mentally, either way) douchers you're in a guild with and leave.
at this point you'll realize you just left what some would call a high-end pve guild. after laughing at how pathetic pve is you'll say "RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO it, i'm experienced enough to play competitively now" and you'll finally start doing pvp.
only then should you be allowed to talk on forums. posting and arguing over pve bullshit is only useful if you're trolling.
eventually you'll realize the guy you're with sucks; he's pretty much peaked out on the "how good i'll be at guild wars" graph. plus, he was racist: not just the normal type of racist person who'll hang out with you if you're not his least favorite ethnicity, but the type of racist person who is always talking about how he thinks black people are the problem with his community even though you've tried to hint to him how ridiculously stupid he sounds every time he gets in what you've come to call his "ultimate bigotry mode". so anyway, after realizing that the retarded bigot leader of your two man guild is terrible at guild wars you'll leave the guild (don't worry, he'll log on about twice within the next year and come ask you for gold so he can use this leet new build he just made up but eventually you'll tell him how much of a douche he is and youll never hear from him again)
then you'll join one of those big guilds that farms faction or one that does speed clears every night and thinks calling it PWNZILLA is cool. you'll soon have had enough of that and realize what a bunch of 12-year-old (physically or mentally, either way) douchers you're in a guild with and leave.
at this point you'll realize you just left what some would call a high-end pve guild. after laughing at how pathetic pve is you'll say "RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO it, i'm experienced enough to play competitively now" and you'll finally start doing pvp.
only then should you be allowed to talk on forums. posting and arguing over pve bullshit is only useful if you're trolling.
byteme!
MagmaRed
Most of it is because although some of the advise is given by people who are experts, they are experts at Guild Wars, not education. They forget that the people they are trying to teach do not know what they are telling them. Although it takes a little longer, it isn't hard to teach 2 things at once for those new people. You mentioned abbreviations and nomenclature causing problems. Well, this can be fixed while teaching about a mission/build. For example:
Someone wants help with completing the mission Thunderhead Keep. They are playing a Monk, and having trouble keeping the team alive. So the response is to use skills like PS, WoH, SB, and SoA. Worse, the response never mentions Thunderhead Keep, but instead THK.
Now, someone may be able to figure out what THK is, but is it hard to type out Thunderhead Keep(THK)? And the abbreviations for the skills will fly over most new players heads. SB could be Spirit Bond or Spell Breaker, or a few other possibles, and the others are still sitting their unknown. So they could easily type out:
Protective Spirit(PS), Spirit Bond(SB), Word of Healing(WoH), and Shield of Absorption(SoA). This would help the person learn about some skills that may be helpful, but also educate them on what the common abbreviations for many things are.
Someone wants help with completing the mission Thunderhead Keep. They are playing a Monk, and having trouble keeping the team alive. So the response is to use skills like PS, WoH, SB, and SoA. Worse, the response never mentions Thunderhead Keep, but instead THK.
Now, someone may be able to figure out what THK is, but is it hard to type out Thunderhead Keep(THK)? And the abbreviations for the skills will fly over most new players heads. SB could be Spirit Bond or Spell Breaker, or a few other possibles, and the others are still sitting their unknown. So they could easily type out:
Protective Spirit(PS), Spirit Bond(SB), Word of Healing(WoH), and Shield of Absorption(SoA). This would help the person learn about some skills that may be helpful, but also educate them on what the common abbreviations for many things are.
Quaker
It seems as though there are too many "experts" in this game who are the type of experts who simply parrot the leet opinions, without any real knowledge of why something may or may not be better. You can recognize these guys because they will say things like "sundering is crap" or "you must have HB" but they will have no ability to explain why they say these things, nor any idea of what may work (or not work) as well.
They will also usually resort to calling others noobs (or worse) because they can't discuss things rationally.
However, I find that the wikis are generally places to find good information.
At any rate, OP, you will find it difficult to find really good information by asking for help in local chat - or by listening to some doofus in your party who parrots the latest leet speak.
They will also usually resort to calling others noobs (or worse) because they can't discuss things rationally.
However, I find that the wikis are generally places to find good information.
At any rate, OP, you will find it difficult to find really good information by asking for help in local chat - or by listening to some doofus in your party who parrots the latest leet speak.
jayebyrd00
only then should you be allowed to talk on forums. posting and arguing over pve bullshit is only useful if you're trolling.
so tell me again.....who is the bigot???
so tell me again.....who is the bigot???
maxxfury
Maybe this situation goes both ways in general..
Should some of the Vets try explaining a little more newb friendly? yeah i guess so!
Should the new guys maybe take a little notice of whats actually been said tho? damn right!¬
The elite attitubes can be annoying from the vets but the "but i still know better cos i finished normal mode proph!" attitude of the new guys doesnt help the whole situation either!! and will usually leave them dismissed as noobs..(how ever much i HATE that term)
Yes you finished a chapter, congrats! but when you ask for help your gonna get (hopefully) an experienced reply from someone who DOES know better and has likely experienced the game a MASSIVE amount more than you, and tested more options that you can think of!
So the self righteous attitude defending a build that "gets by" isnt gonna gain a lot of help when you take this stance. the Veterans here 99% of the time CAN tell if a build is gonna work or fail or et by just by looking at it!!
Also the asshat trolling repliles are usually pretty easy to tell right away as most of them have little tallent at trolling :P tho some get thru and i take my hat of the the creative ones
End result is = Vets need to be a little more newb friendly with terminology and newbs need to actually listen to the the more experienced replies they DO recieve and not blindly ignore the advice they ast for! OR take the advice as a personal flame..
But then will it happen? likely answer is no from the majority
Should some of the Vets try explaining a little more newb friendly? yeah i guess so!
Should the new guys maybe take a little notice of whats actually been said tho? damn right!¬
The elite attitubes can be annoying from the vets but the "but i still know better cos i finished normal mode proph!" attitude of the new guys doesnt help the whole situation either!! and will usually leave them dismissed as noobs..(how ever much i HATE that term)
Yes you finished a chapter, congrats! but when you ask for help your gonna get (hopefully) an experienced reply from someone who DOES know better and has likely experienced the game a MASSIVE amount more than you, and tested more options that you can think of!
So the self righteous attitude defending a build that "gets by" isnt gonna gain a lot of help when you take this stance. the Veterans here 99% of the time CAN tell if a build is gonna work or fail or et by just by looking at it!!
Also the asshat trolling repliles are usually pretty easy to tell right away as most of them have little tallent at trolling :P tho some get thru and i take my hat of the the creative ones
End result is = Vets need to be a little more newb friendly with terminology and newbs need to actually listen to the the more experienced replies they DO recieve and not blindly ignore the advice they ast for! OR take the advice as a personal flame..
But then will it happen? likely answer is no
from the majority
Abedeus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaker
It seems as though there are too many "experts" in this game who are the type of experts who simply parrot the leet opinions, without any real knowledge of why something may or may not be better. You can recognize these guys because they will say things like "sundering is crap"
It is crap on anything except scythes and hammers.
It's simple math. When the 20% chance for 20% more damage is, in long run, worth less than a Vampiric, elemental or zealous, then it's not worth anything.
Also, with Axes, Bows and Spears, the damage is spread out - you might increase your 10 damage by 20%... and it'll be 12 damage. WOAH.
Daggers and Swords, on the other hand, are just low-damage. So you might increase your 4 damage by 20% and it will be almost 5, rounded up.
There were few threads about it, but I'll say it again - chances of the mod increasing damage or making the enemy die faster are too low. Even the 33% longer bleeding, poison or deep wound mods will cause the death faster.
It's simple math. When the 20% chance for 20% more damage is, in long run, worth less than a Vampiric, elemental or zealous, then it's not worth anything.
Also, with Axes, Bows and Spears, the damage is spread out - you might increase your 10 damage by 20%... and it'll be 12 damage. WOAH.
Daggers and Swords, on the other hand, are just low-damage. So you might increase your 4 damage by 20% and it will be almost 5, rounded up.
There were few threads about it, but I'll say it again - chances of the mod increasing damage or making the enemy die faster are too low. Even the 33% longer bleeding, poison or deep wound mods will cause the death faster.
Avarre
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abedeus
It's simple math. When the 20% chance for 20% more damage is, in long run, worth less than a Vampiric, elemental or zealous, then it's not worth anything.
Quaker is very correct. The reason for 'parrot experts' is that most of the math has been posted, and therefore having read it, they feel educated. However, Guild Wars is theory and practice, and most of these players aren't actually good at the game. Thus, they theorycraft endlessly from what the early opinions are rather than coming to a conclusion from experience.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by jayebyrd00
so tell me again.....who is the bigot???
I'm going to be honest. There's no good PvE player in Guild Wars who hasn't played PvP.
Racthoh, Sab, Cerb, Sno, Jerrypants, Arkantos/Fenix (you made a guide, so you can be here for now), and more? All r6+. All with GvG experience. The best PvE players have always been the players who play all parts of Guild Wars.
Terrokian
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abedeus
It is crap on anything except scythes and hammers.
It's simple math. When the 20% chance for 20% more damage is, in long run, worth less than a Vampiric, elemental or zealous, then it's not worth anything. Also, with Axes, Bows and Spears, the damage is spread out - you might increase your 10 damage by 20%... and it'll be 12 damage. WOAH. Daggers and Swords, on the other hand, are just low-damage. So you might increase your 4 damage by 20% and it will be almost 5, rounded up. There were few threads about it, but I'll say it again - chances of the mod increasing damage or making the enemy die faster are too low. Even the 33% longer bleeding, poison or deep wound mods will cause the death faster. Here we go. SUNDERING is not a 20% increase in damage. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Armor_penetration It goes off 1 out of every 5 attacks on average. If it didn't, then why not make it say"May go off on occasion for 20% armor penetration" . It does go off 20% of the time DON'T bother arguing that point. If 20% chance was such crap odds, then why do casters go gaga for 20% HCT or 20% HSR? Pretty much puts 20% in perspective. Roughly speaking it is a 43%+ increase in damage when it does. Where this plays out is the ability to keep up a good damage level. Vampiric DOES NOT have the ability to increase. It is a steady +3 damage period. Sundering is applied to the WHOLE of the damage Vampiric is still just 3 damage. so here's 5 REALISTIC hits Vampiric // Sundering 60+3 // 60 60+3 // 60 60+3 // 60 60+3 // 60 60+3 // 60+sunder effect(60 x .43=25.8) total 315 // total 325.8 So how did the whole go Vampiric you noob legend start? Some knucklehead took a white sundering VS a white vampiric weapon. AT NO TIME DID THIS GUY FIGURE USING ONE SKILL.SKILLS ADD DAMAGE TO THE WHOLE. So I will use white daggers with the appropriate mods to show this. Vampiric // Sundering 12+3 // 12 12+3 // 12 12+3 // 12 12+3 // 12 12+3 // 12+sunder effect(12 x .43=5.16) total 75 // total 65.16 Looking at it that way Vampiric certainly does blow Sundering away. Now do you seriously putter around in HM doing 12 damage a hit? Sundering>Vampiric UNLESS you are at a very low damage output. But you keep farming those level 3 grawls sunshine, your day will come.
Xenomortis
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrokian
[Artificial Data and Comments] Daggers are unique in that they have a very low base damage and a double strike chance, but that isn't really relevant to what you posted. All that means is your attack rate and thus DPS is increased. Sundering triggering on daggers is a small increase in damage (but increases as the target's AL increases). Vampiric mods will increase the damage by a set and predictable amount - they deal an unprotectable, extra damage package and on weapons with a high attack rate (namely daggers, but this applies to scythes too) can provide some healing (however trivial). I think most importantly though, the Sundering mod does not increase the damage from attack skills. It's effect is based on the base damage of your weapon and the AL of your target (the damage increases as each of those increases). The best damage increase would come when you crit with a scythe on a very high armour target. The odds of your attack spike coinciding with a crit and the sundering mod is somewhat low though. I don't know what's worse, the fact this post is unstructured, or the fact that after reading it for 10 minutes, I can't structure it.
Avarre
Ugh.
In PvE vampiric wins because you just want to get the most total damage out over time. You're not competing against infuse or prot to land a kill, you're competing against health bars. In PvP it depends on the build being run, because most builds are physical spike builds, and you're going to have a lot of chances to get high crit bursts. Spike builds typically have lower DPS than pressure builds, sacrificing it in favor of damage compression. |
